Is “Progressive” seen as a negative word, politically?

[OddBeMe]

Just in general, i guess, in your circles.

Yes

No

Dont know

[nightdrot]

The answer is Yes, it has become so, and this I say even though it is not a philosophy to which I subscribe. Yet having said that, strictly speaking, it is seen as negative not because the public is aware of its' meaning. Rather because sloganeering and name calling is a substitute for thought. Thus "progressive" is seen as negative as is "right wing" on the other side. Indeed, to some degree, even the words "conservative" and "liberal," though to a lesser degree, have come to be seen as negative, depending, of course, on who is using them.

In the case of Progressivism, it is a profoundly flawed philosophy derived from classical liberalism as read primarily through Rousseau and to some extent Marx. It presumes that progress is inevitable as man is a basically good and social being. Man being corrupted by political, social and cultural institutions that have warped his nature.

Historically, the Progressive argued that these imperfections in societal institutions would be refined and corrected as man's scientific and economic knowledge and methods increased. Reforming such institutions along "scientific" lines would then conduce to man's improvement and - as the increase in knowledge was inevitable, man was perfectible and thus, in due course, society itself would be perfected.

The flaw in this, of course, was - as the 18th century British Prime Minister, Benjamin Disraeli (Lord Beaconsfield) put it, “The European talks of progress because by the aid of a few scientific discoveries he has established a society which has mistaken comfort for civilization.” Suffice to say, Progressivism became an excuse for social engineering and thus ultimately tyranny. Conducing to a government whose ambit is unlimited and which has license to re-shape man in the image of the social engineer.

So, in short, (and for purposes of space, this is cutting things short), Progressivism is hardly a positive philosophy. Whatever its' idealistic ambitions, it fails to take account of human imperfection and imperfectability and thus creates an illusion of progress that, where it has been applied historically, has tended to lead to autocracy or chaos.

Having said all that, it is almost assured that most of the politicians, media stars and general public who sling the word around grasp none of the above. Rather, they hear a word that they vaguely equate with things they do not like and proceed to treat it as an epithet. In this sense it is seen as a "negative."

That said, if there is to be any refinement in American politics generally, it will only come when there is a deeper understanding of - and far less emotionalism about - the nation's political vocabulary. Unfortunately, in the age of the Internet, the nation is "a society which has mistaken comfort for civilization." Thus a deeper and less emotional politics is not likely to come along any time soon. Progress - the protestations of the philosophical Progressives notwithstanding - is not inevitable.

[sawno]

Yes, but that is not really justified because "Progressive" is incorrectly associated with a political group. I find them to be regressives rather than progressives and my idea of progress is very different. But because genuine liberals identify as conservatives rather than progressives they get caught up in trying to conserve the freedoms and values we have. That alone is not enough, you have to be able to identify an end goal where society is exactly how you want it to be and strive for that progress.

That is why I do still identify as a progressive liberal, but I am very far removed from the current left wing movements that normally identify as such.

[dustybiker]

I don’t know. Fast forward to the skateboard part of the movie.

[Juxtapose]

Yes! It's the perversion of liberalism into something resembling the fantasies of authoritarian communists. Just look at how progressives treat free speech in other countries, equating words to violence and compelling speech even!

We need a return to classical liberalism where free speech is guarded with a religious seal outmatching the passion of the most ardent crusaders. If we do not passionately defend our freedoms we will lose them to Orwellian forces.

[Juxtapose]

[OddBeMe]

progressives also correct people's spelling... of progressivism.

[Juxtapose]

Ah I didn't even notice it haha, wasn't me!

Still pretty irrelevant and a juvenile dodge in my opinion.

[OddBeMe]

sure but it a juvenile definition, I'd say. Any extreme side of politics could fit it.

[Juxtapose]

Do extreme right wingers do that?

[OddBeMe]

To the point of trying to overturn elections? Yes they fcking do that.

[Juxtapose]

I would actually say that Democrats take a weird approach to elections. John Kerry was fucking robbed but you guys just let it happen. JFK was assassinated after specifically talking about going after the CIA, but yet Democrats have done nothing about that.

[Juxtapose]

The "cancel culture" was originally the purview of Evangelical Christians and now hardcore believers of social justice have adopted that. What has happened to the left?

[OddBeMe]

mostly true. Pretty sure Kerry lost fairly. Gore lost after a Scotus decision. So grey area.

But yeah, libs don't riot or vote as constant as conservs

[OddBeMe]

I fcking blame blacks and women for shrugging off 2016 election and reaping the world wind. I read Hillary had chicks coming up to her in the street and apologizing for not voting. She thought she had it in the bag... idiots.

[Pudsmucker]

Yes progressiveness is a political term for being a socialist and communist. Progressives feel that we cannot make up our online and decision for ourselves. They feel that they are better qualified to make the decisions for us.

[OddBeMe]

I'm not seeing that in dictionaries or thesauruses...

[Pudsmucker]

Sorry I m bad. I have seen used more with the Democrats. To make changes toward liberal thinking.

[OddBeMe]

Funny how more education and less wealth gap brings a more progressive society.

[MrNameless]

Only by conservatives, because they are regressive.

[Snakeyes7]

Given the people who call themselves progressives aren't actually progressive at all, regressive if anything, I would imagine it would be seen by people who actually pay attention to what they say they want.

[OddBeMe]

What do progressives say we want?

[Snakeyes7]

They want to go back to race discrimination. That's literally what affirmative action is.

[OddBeMe]

Well, A) you're defining progressives based on one policy. And B) how else do you fight job discrimination?

[Snakeyes7]

1. Conservatives are called racists over zero policies that have anything to do with race so I at least have some grounds to make that argument.
2. Leave race out of it and base your hiring on their ability to do the job they signed up for. You know, how it is legally supposed to be done considering adding arbitrary conditions like race violates the civil rights act which I thought you guys liked. Apparently not.

[OddBeMe]

because you're naive to think that will work. you're basically saying people will always be equal.

[Snakeyes7]

In what way?

[OddBeMe]

In every way. You think we (the govt for the people) dont need to regulate equality. That people will do it automatically?

Thats what affirmative action is. It is reverse racism, but trying to equalize the tilted playing field. How else do we do it?

[Snakeyes7]

Yes because regulating equality leads to equality of outcome and not opportunity and that means rejecting people based on skin color and not on their merit because that color or race has reached its quota and that is immoral.

Your solution is to go from "I'm sorry, you are perfect for the job but we can't hire you because you are black and blacks aren't allowed to apply here" to "I'm sorry, you are perfect for the job but we can't hire you because you are black and there aren't any available spaces for black people remaining in our company."

Reverse racism isn't a thing, it's just racism. You're judging by skin color and are therefore making a race based decision and that is racist.

[Anonymous]

Yes, because the people who calls themself progressive tends to be draconian strict tyrants who would shun you for daring to have the wrong opinion. Actual progressiveness is not bad.

[msc545]

Certainly, by conservatives it is.