What is your opinion on radical vegans?

[Datboi65]

So the reason why I'm asking this question is not to throw shade on vegans who are respectful to everyone and decide to live their life according to how they want to, but the ones who guilt and shame people who use meat/dairy products and try to impose their lifestyle on other people.

In the light of the climate "activists" who tossed tomato soup on a painting, it got me thinking about other aspects of life where outrageous ideas could be demonstrated, and veganism comes directly in question.

What is your opinion on the matter? 🤔

[Anonymous]

You know *slurps the last of her shake* those vegans have a real good point *takes bite of her double cheese double cheeseburger* they shouldn't eat animal products *digs around for her lipstick in her leather purse* that way the farmers don't have to bother taking critters to the sale... Now pass me the tub of ice crea

Farms are businesses, not animal shelters. Do you know what the prudent thing is that farmers have to do when the prices drop because of lack of demand to the point that the animals cost more than they make? And it's constantly a razors edge financially in agriculture... What happens? We round them up into the pens where we can get to them with a tractor. The next stage involves a rifle. And the last stage involves hauling them to a canyon with the tractor.

I apologise if this offends your sensibilities, but out here we deal with hard realities of real business and real life. Our livelihoods and what our parents, grandparents, and for me 5 generations back fought the soil and spilled blood sweat and tears to maintain. If people don't use animal products, we would have no reason to keep them alive, and most farm animals, except pigs, wouldn't survive on their own.

[Datboi65]

Don't really know if you read the piece or not, I'm not "offended" by what you said, because I was practically saying the same thing. They are very likely to survive on their own, you would be surprised with their adaptability. However, people tend to forget that humans are also animals with their own needs. Our species are omnivores, and we NEED our meat. If you have studied pathology, then you would know the ugliness of some diseases that occur due to protein deficiency (google ascites for example). We need protein for enzyme production, transcription, albumin production and many more reasons, and if we listened to the vegans, we would all probably die in a few decades.

[Opinion Owner]

I read what you wrote, that but wasn't directed to you... We all know there are people who take issue with those things... Heck, we had a woman take issue with the fact a speaker mentioned the word "gun" in a speech last week by a veteran accepting donated wheelchairs for disabled veterans. ... my only issue was that the proper term should have been "rifle"... There is someone out there for every offence that can be taken.

[purplepoppy]

As an actual farmer, I call bollocks on this one. Dumping cows in a canyon is going to get you a prison sentence. Neither do you round animals up in a corner and shoot them, massive welfare issues there. Its crap like this that gives legitimate farming a bad name and provides fuel for vegans.

[Opinion Owner]

@purplepoppy I've seen it. Not alive obviously, but I've seen it. I've also seen where prices were so bad people would take calves to sale and offer $100 and a bag of feed to anyone who would take them... Only to go inside leaving 3 calves in the trailer and coming out to find 5... ... I've also seen when disease hit and was spreading so fast they tried to get ahead of it by putting them down in adjacent fields, only to find they didn't have time as the herds were dying faster than they could haul them off... All told there was a mile of beef lined up in the bar ditch 2 deep and 3 high. It was enough to make Daddy cry as we drove past.

So yes, it happens, and where I live nobody would know, and the Sheriff would understand if he did.

[purplepoppy]

Guess we're lucky here in the UK. All cows need a passport to be moved around and the police do take notice of trailers been moved at 2 am. Disease wise the government operates a "slaughter on suspicion" policy and you get compensation. You won't be surprised to hear some farmers make more money from these comp schemes than farming. It's amazing how many cows magically get TB at the end of their milking life.

[Opinion Owner]

@purplepoppy well, I live on the outskirts of a very rural county... The locals call it "The West End" as in "The West End of Nowhere"... The sheriff's don't come out here, they take police reports over the phone and basically have you do a "do it yourself" investigation unless someone is killed... About 3 years ago the county sheriff literally watched 2 people unload.22 revolvers at each other in front of the bar in his township because he was off duty and (he was right) they were too drunk to hit each other... It's still very wild west out here.

That said, we don't have a government funded program like that, so when disease happens you're just SOL... We do have rules about transporting animals but enforcement is usually lax, most of the time the onus is put on the rancher to protect himself by knowing to get bulls trich tested and to take precautions against other transmittable diseases, but the ranchers who raise cattle to take to sale (like steers) are more concerned about sheer numbers and consider it a risk factored into the business... But that doesn't do much good when their cattle get the neighbors herds sick.

I'm glad that the UK has rules and programs, but the reality here in the US is that while we have programs and departments (like the USDA) that try to help the farmers, they are vastly underfunded and it seems quite intentional... It feels like the farmer in the US is treated like a relic of a bygone era, overworked, underpaid, and whenever we do get a little help in keeping the country fed, people associated with a certain party always scream... Most of the farmers I know have to have a second job just to be able to keep farming.

[purplepoppy]

I'm happy to let people live their lives as vegans but I'm against them trying to force other people to give up animal products. To put it in perspective. If you eat vegetables, the soil they're growing in gets sprayed with animal dung. Plants need pollination and that's often thanks to professional beekeepers, those vegan apples are the result of bee exploitation. Whale oil is used in satellites so best turn off the tv. That lip balm you're using probably contains lanolin from sheep wool. My point is animal products go further than just meat. Remove them and your living in a world of artificial chemicals.

[TheUniqueOne96]

A bunch of assholes, equally as much as radicals from other groups, whether religious, political, etc.

I respect the ethical reasons for going vegans, although I'm sure some can potentially be debunked, like some plants requiring dead bees or something like that, that Piers Morgan mentioned, but if they really want change, they need to understand that being a self-righteous or violent dick wipe about it, isn't going to help.

There's vegans out there like Earthling Ed (from what I've seen) who simply engage in normal discussions with people and go about it that way, which is totally fine.

[HippieVeganJewslim]

They’re messed-up. I’m a vegan, but not a radical one. I support donating unneeded meats to the needy. I’m just against exploiting biota.

[jennifer_bloom]

I think they try to avoid pain but I have an opinion on this - pain is unavoidable because everyone dies and most will feel before they die. Also in order for babies to come into the world, mothers have to experience pain in child birth so that is more pain. I believe pain should be prioritized. It's okay for a criminal to experience pain if their pain lessens the pain of their victims or the families of their victims. It's okay for a soldier to feel pain if it means the pain can save their country. It's okay for a doctor to be tired if their tiredness saves people's lives etc... I think some vegetarians are denying the reality and nature of life.

[Datboi65]

The reality is we cannot survive without protein, and plant-based diets simply do not have the same level of protein and iron as meat. Now if people want to do that, who am I to tell them not to? But absolutely nobody well tell me that eating a nice steak is being complicit in violence against animals, I won't allow it. They need to chill out on anthropomorphizing animals, because not everyone will fall for the same trap, and it will just make them come across as hateful and bitter.

[jennifer_bloom]

What I believe is its okay for animals to die because people have to die too.

[lauraanne02]

We can easily survive without the amount of meat humans are consuming right now.

[Datboi65]

@lauraanne02 I'm currently bulking, so no I can't. I eat 160g of protein a day, so I need my meat to get there. Beans and lentils are not enough. Also, I simply don't believe in their cause. If they want to leave a vegan life I will respect their liberties, but they can't take away my right to eat what I want.

[lauraanne02]

I'm afraid you are again incorrect. You can get enough protein from plant foods 😄👍

[Datboi65]

@jennifer_bloom Actually about that, yes humans die too, but nobody cooks and eats them. Humans in the wild would be eaten by other animals. That's just how the ecosystem works, it's for survival. I don't think there's anything ethically wrong with eating animals if we need iron and protein.

[Datboi65]

@lauraanne02 No you cannot. Plant-based diets not only lack in protein, but they also lack in iron. Our main source for both is meat. While it's easy to get protein from high carb foods like pasta and rice, it becomes more difficult once you start needing MORE protein. The average person needs 0.8g per kg of their bodyweight, but a person working out would need between 1.3g to 2.0g of protein per kg. As you can see, it becomes more difficult to do add more protein through beans and lentils. Also, the vegan lifestyle is super expensive and inconvenient. A lot of people are just not willing to let go of the good omelete that is delicious and packed with protein because someone told them not to. Like I said, you are free to live your life how you want, but the shaming tactics that vegans use on non-vegans are just ridiculous.

[lauraanne02]

Again, you are just blatantly wrong 😂👍

[Datboi65]

@lauraanne02 How am I wrong? I told you it's not convenient for most and you say that's wrong? No offense ma'am, but you are not making any sense.

[lauraanne02]

toughmudder.co.uk/.../

[Datboi65]

@lauraanne02 I looked at it, and the numbers listed for nutritional value are inaccurate. Lentils have 9g of protein fully cooked, Kidney beans about 8g, pumpkin seeds around 19g and so on. You get the point, there's less protein than was marketed on that link. Even if let's say I had to compensate for the missing protein with vegan protein powder (which is more expensive than whey protein) that would mean I would have to take A LOT of scoops to get to the same amount of protein intake in my current diet, so I would have to buy vegan protein every 5 days on 4 scoops a day for 20 portions (4 scoops is 4 portions, so 80g). Yeah, not gonna happen.

[lauraanne02]

Where's your source of information lol, because if scientists got it wrong, maybe you should publish your evidence instead! 😂😂👍

[jshm2]

It's little to do with vegans, and more to do with extreme ideals and those that push them.

Be it climate, zionist, vegan, white or other extremists, their cause is immaterial. They just wear it like a mask to justify their merry hell making

[WindAtMyBack]

I was a vegetarian in the past. Most of my friends back in the day were vegetarian also. None of us were "vegan". I don't think the word had even been invented yet. It seems like most vegans are vegetarians who take the moral high ground. Most feel the same moral imperative to push it on everyone else, and look down their nose at anyone who doesn't stand on that same moral high ground.

[ibodi]

Sound like misunderstand reincarnation. It is guilted people fall into animals field to be eatten. Can not find appropricated picture but I am talking about this perosn in Saint Seiya

[lauraanne02]

The "activists" who threw soup on that painting are a group called 'stop oil' or something. Anyways, they're biggest donations are from some other organisation which is funded by oil tycoons in order to tarnish the reputation of the actual activists who are doing work actually benefitting the cause

[Datboi65]

I don't know about the legitimacy of that claim, so I will have to fact-check it. However, if that is true, then those who believe in the cause should be the loudest to denounce what happened in the name of showing good intentions. Back in April, I remember another climate "activist" (Wynn Bruce) set himself on fire near the United States Supreme Court, and just today some "activists" poured milk in a store in Scotland. I think you understand why the public is skeptical, because there's a pattern of events that have occured and not just based off one incident.

[lauraanne02]

The pattern of event are all linked to people being paid by rich oil companies to do publicity stunts lmao. It's not that difficult to get your head around tbh. But what they're doing is working because it's got people being outraged by spilt milk rather than what big oil is doing to the environment

[Datboi65]

Can you please cite your resources?

[LindsayR07]

Yes, please cite your sources here. Not that I doubt you, but this is a very interesting claim and I kinda hope that it is true because... Yeah.

[lauraanne02]

You can literally just Google it. It's not a secret lmao

[LindsayR07]

I don't accept that from the other side so I can't ethically have a double standard, and the other side wouldn't bother googling it anyway...

Give us a couple of links so they can be showed up

[lauraanne02]

Unfortunately even providing links won't help as I know ignorant people will not read them anyway 😄👍

[Datboi65]

So are you calling me an ignorant person? I didn't ask you to cite your resources to challenge your position, I did so out of curiosity because you made a bold claim. If you do not provide a link, it will seem to me and everyone else that what you said about "oil tycoons" is nothing more than a conspiracy. It's not your worry whether or not others will read it, I asked for them and I will go through them.

[lauraanne02]

I wasn't replying to you lmao I was responding to the other person in this thread 😂😂 why are you getting so defensive all of a sudden

[LindsayR07]

This is true, unfortunately... Definitionally the ignorant ignore what's in front of them.

[Datboi65]

I'm not getting defensive, I'm explaining the obvious. If you don't have anything to send, then I'm justified in believing that what you said has no merit and is a conspiracy.

[lauraanne02]

I've already sent a link to several websites in this thread

[Sixgunsound]

If you exist exclusively on what food eats the amount of time I have for you decreases. Not because I care what you eat but because you don’t shut the fuck up about it and I have to limit our interaction to get a word in edgewise.

[TroyDT2]

I don't care if they try to convince others, but when they start trying to pass laws I will start getting uppity.

[misogynistic_pig]

When I was 12 years old I liked radical vegan groups, like the Animal Liberation Front, then I realized that those groups are progressive and I stopped liking them.

[Berethor]

No vegan diet, no vegan powers! :)

https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Dj-kwDTisg

[Guy13]

They want to restrict meat access thereby limiting testosterone’s hormonal effects and feminizing men.

[MountAverage]

Like with anything, there's always some who are crazy extremists. Usually a loud minority, as is the case with vegans. Most vegans don't bother anyone.

[Datboi65]

That's basically what I said too. The problem is how ridiculous and repetitive their behavior is, and that it doesn't go unchecked. The silent majority would need to denounce them, or new measures need to be taken to ensure that these people do not continue to disturb the public.

[MountAverage]

I don't think the silent majority needs to denounce them, I also don't think it would convince any of the (even more annoying) anti-vegan folks.
Everytime I see a post on Social Media (FB, IG, YT, whatever) about a vegan recipe or something like that, the comment section is always full of people complaining about how vegans always try to shove their veganism up everybody's throat, but then you scroll through everything and you can't find any of them, it's just people talking about the recipe. And then you realize the actual irony of it all:
The comment section is actually full of people making fun of vegans with the same jokes as 20 years ago: "looks good, but needs becon" or just posting a picture of bacon or "stop eating my food's food!" and so on. Literally the same jokes I've heard when I was in highschool. So worn out. But the point is the irony. Anti-vegans are the ones who shove their bullshit down everybody's throat. They show up in comment sections under vegan recipes and just mock and attack vegans even though there's nobody else being an asshole, just people enjoying vegan recipes.

That pisses me off.

[Datboi65]

That's definitely asshole behavior, and I do not condone it neither do I stand for it. I do however think that these 2 things aren't equal. Shit humor is not equal to pouring milk in a store to protest climate change/veganism, you just can't compare these things. Yes, most vegans don't do it, but most meat eaters mind their business as well when it comes to vegans. The same can be said about women getting into analyzing sports games for examples, and you get stupid comments like "go back to the kitchen, football ain't for you" which I do not support, but as unfortunate as that is and that might replicate someone's experience, that doesn't necessarily reflect the opinion of the majority.

So in two situations where it's a minority doing stupid shit on opposite sides if the spectrum, one is more extreme than the other. Hope that makes sense.

[MountAverage]

That's not what I was talking about. You're talking about something entirely different than I am.

[Datboi65]

You talked about vegans posting recipes on social media, I brought up a similar example of a different issue. It is relevant to the discussion. Point was two wrongs don't make a right.

[MountAverage]

No, that's not what I was trying to say at all. You completely missed my point.

[Shamalien]

Not a fan. I am vegetarian but don’t push it

[Cubus]

They're dangerous.

https://streamable.com/pjhnp0

[Agape93]

They're hateful assholes.

[exitseven]

More steak and hamburger for me.

[Anonymous]

Hitler was vegan too, so they're Nazis!

[HippieVeganJewslim]

Hitler never was vegan, and many even reckon He wasn’t even vegetarian! Just because they have one thing in common, doesn’t mean everything is.