What's the general consensus on trans people here?

[Anonymous]

Okay, so been seeing posts time from time for a little bit before making this account, and afterwards as well, and I kinda just want to ask what few problems people seem to have about trans people here. Like genuinely, they're just living their lives and y'all have weirdly creepy and antagonistic remarks about them from time to time, see it a lot with guys more than girls.

With that out of the way let's ask for a general consensus on top of that, cause honestly it seems to only be fringe group of people, but I at the very least need to see some sort of perspective and reasoning here, cause so far I can't wrap my head around the hate.

I support trans people (and I am a woman)

I don't support trans people (and I am a woman)

I support trans people (and I am a man)

I don't support trans people (and I am a man)

[NamerOfStars]

Define "support". Do I think that people should be free to live their own lives and make their own choices? Yes. Does it actually harm anyone if somebody wants to be referred to with the opposite sex's pronouns and wear their clothes and use their bathrooms? No. Do I actually know any transsexual people in real life? Maybe- one of the perks of egalitarianism is that treating people the same means it doesn't matter what they are, demographic-wise. I genuinely don't know if anyone I associate with is, and frankly, I don't really care- it's not going to affect what I think about them.

But there are two big catches. The first is the more concrete one: children. Are there psychologically transsexual adults? Manifestly; no problem there. Would it then stand to reason that there are transsexual kids? Probably- but the "victimhood is a virtue" crowd pushing major surgeries with lifelong complications onto people who can easily be lead to believe that they're a dinosaur is reprehensible. Is little Johnny, who has some distinctly feminine tastes and traits, trans? Maybe- but it's far, FAR more likely that he's just a little boy who has some feminine tastes and traits. Restraint and reflection is what's called for here, not unthinking affirmation. Names and pronouns and outfits don't cause harm; puberty blockers DO. There's a growing mindset which would be more reluctant to let their child have a soda than a sex change, and THAT I find objectionable in the extreme.

The second objection is more abstract: the Lysenkiost assertion that reality is ultimately subjective, and that what you "identify as" is more important than what you ARE. People, the only difference between "my truth" and "alternative facts" is whether there's a (D) or an (R) after the speaker's name.

Now, what does this have to do with the nice, uh, individual down the block, who just so happens to be trans? Nothing- at least not inherently. But there's a world of difference between "just wanting to live their life" (which is where most trans people are, I suspect) and "making their demographics the core of their identity, and constantly acting as though they're under attack".

[Berethor]

Women tend to be more liberal and less straight, and men don't want to be fooled by trans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense

[Anonymous]

i support trans rights but i have a problem with this dominating politics and culture, as a WOC i'm tired of people going out of their way to roll out the red carpet for trans people when the same issues from a year ago, 10 years ago, 50 years ago get repeated for POC, everyone's entitled to their opinion and, i see this especially with trans women, but they aren't JUST women, they're specifically TRANS women just as race/sexuality/class/disability would factor in, they can't have periods, they can't get pregnant and they have NO IDEA what problems involved in things like this feel and it's an insult if they try to claim that they're all woman when they're not because everyone has different experiences, just as i have no idea what it feels to be a trans person - biology is definitely a factor in life, you can't dismiss it and i have a problem when people try to do so and i think going on hormonal blockers or anything at a young age could cause problems but i don't know enough about the issue to really have a solid opinion - i don't have a problem sharing a bathroom with a trans woman, maybe i'd feel slightly more uncomfortable in a changing room but that shouldn't stop them, prisons are a different question because trans rapists are as disgusting as any other rapist - live your life however you like as long as it doesn't hurt anyone

[PrettyPriya]

What other people do doesn't affect my life. If that is what they chose to be, then that is fine with me. I don't know any trans people in real life, but I do know some here. I wouldn't have known they were otherwise unless they had told me.

It is the same with some of the gay/lesbian people that I have met. Their choices do not affect my life in the slightest, so I have absolutely no problem with them being happy. That is, after all, the point of life, right? To be happy?

So, what others chose to do to be happy with their lives is their business. I have no once had anyone press their views on me or try to persuade me in any sort of way. So, I have no issues whatsoever.

Those that hate on others for the simple reason of being different are wasting their own time in my opinion. You can not agree with something and just go about your business. To make a big deal about it isn't worth the effort. Yet, it happens all the time.

[Asker]

Yeah, I just don't get why the hate exists at all, it just feels forced, definitely agree about your view of life there, people should be allowed to he happy, and to intentionally take that away is just... weird

[PrettyPriya]

It is just not something worth worrying about. It has no bearing on my life. Let them do what they choose.

[TheUniqueOne96]

I support their right to exist and all and to be treated with respect.

That being said, they need to understand that not everyone will agree with them calling themselves something other than their biological self.

[gorydetails]

I believe that the current treatment of people who think they are "born in the wrong body" is inhumane. While I don't really care that a man thinks he's a woman, I am under no moral obligation to oblige his delusion.

[Asker]

How so is the treatment inhumane? The vast, vast majority of trans people are genuinely happier after being allowed treatment via HRT and after gender affirming surgeries. Also how is it delusional? Why aren't there other delusions that go alongside it if it is one? That wouldn't make sense for what delusional disorders and illnesses are and do? This just feels like a way to blanket statement people under the bus and ignore that they exist. It's good that you don't particularly mind what people do to themselves, but at the same time you immediately contradict that with saying their choices are inhumane?

[gorydetails]

There are plenty of other delusions. Anorexics think they are overweight. There are people who blind themselves because they feel they are disabled. There are people who tattoo their entire bodies and those who cut their dicks in half. There are people who think they are Jesus Christ

And it is a delusion. A man is not a woman. A man will never be a woman. He may use surgery and medical procedures to become a grotesque facsimile of a woman, but will never be a woman.

The post-transition suicide rate for trans people is still about 40%. That's not a sign of happiness.

[Asker]

Uh... what, no that's not even what the pre-transition rate is? The pre-transition rate is 41% that have considered suicide or had suicidal ideations and thoughts, out of which roughly half will attempt suicide, and that gets reduced by 44% after HRT, and a further 86% after gender affirming surgeries. You just lied, like outright. What? Do you think people can't find this? Also anorexia isn't a delusional disorder or illness it's a combination of body dysmorphia disorder and an eating disorder and usually anorexic people tend to have anxiety and depression.
Calling trans people delusional doesn't make sense, and your example, wasn't even a delusional disorder? Also is tattooing your body a mental illness? The people who make themselves disabled are suffering however, but they also don't feel happier after becoming disabled, which would run contrary to trans people who do. It really seems you don't have a lot of information about trans people or want to lie about them for some reason?

[gorydetails]

Trans people tend to have anxiety and depression as well:

journals.plos.org/.../journal.pone.0016885

Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers.

www.theguardian.com/.../health.mentalhealth

The review of more than 100 international medical studies of post-operative transsexuals by the University of Birmingham's aggressive research intelligence facility (Arif) found no robust scientific evidence that gender reassignment surgery is clinically effective.

www.cms.gov/.../ncacal-decision-memo.aspx

Based on a thorough review of the clinical evidence available at this time, there is not enough evidence to determine whether gender reassignment surgery improves health outcomes for Medicare beneficiaries with gender dysphoria. There were conflicting (inconsistent) study results—of the best designed studies, some reported benefits while others reported harms. The quality and strength of evidence were low due to the mostly observational study designs with no comparison groups, potential confounding, and small sample sizes. Many studies that reported positive outcomes were exploratory type studies (case-series and case-control) with no confirmatory follow-up.

[Asker]

Oh so you are like huge liar, got it, cause according to literally every credible source I could find this is just plainly false. (Apparently I need to be a higher Xper or something to send the links, but genuinely fuck you)

Yeah, okay, I am not gonna respond any further to someone who is willfully spreading blatant lies and misinformation about people I genuinely care about, fuck off. I am not participating in whatever weird game you want to play, these are people I hold dear to me, and I am not gonna let them fucking die because of people like you refusing to let them live normal, genuine lives where they can be themselves. Talk to a single fucking trans person who's going through the shit you put them through and how genuinely happy they become when they get the care they need. I am actually pissed off. If we ever meet IRL I am going to punch you, and I don't think I could stop myself, you are disgusting. I don't wish harm on a lot of people, but you're one of the few exceptions, I hope that you come to your senses, because this is just not okay.

[Asker]

Like genuinely, yeah trans people are more likely to have depression and anxiety, this isn't because they're trans, that's a societal thing, like you genuinely have to be an evil person to point to the effect of being mentally, socially, financially, and physically under stress and then say it's their fault. Also the APA literally has the consensus that you should transition if you're trans, that's the consensus, I can't with you, you are truly evil. This shit I'm just not going to respond further afterwards, you are lying, and you either have no idea what you're doing or you're gleefully aware, and honestly I'm not going to deal with that.

[gorydetails]

No, fuck you. And you won't do shit. You are a big pussy. I don't care whether you're pissed off.

[SnowedIn]

I don't think there is a general consensus here.

[Asker]

I think there's at least something to be seen, right now it's clear that out of the 2 people who don't support trans people they both seem to be men and both seem to have an idea that trans people self-harm and are delusional/mentally ill. So there's at least an indication of what groups of people think what and maybe even why, which is kinda what I was looking for, cause I genuinely don't understand the issues they have with trans people. So at worst there's at least something to be fond here.

[Msputiton]

I don't really have an opinion on it, too much except allowing them the right to identify how they want without being harassed for it.

[Redstang88]

Support is a strong word, indifferent is more accurate

[Asker]

That is literally support, do you think they should be able to do what they want with their bodies? Do you respect the pronouns they use? That's really all support comes down to. Support is just not being an awful human being towards trans people it would seem, because apparently not supporting them means that you'll call them delusional and lie about the statistics about them as soon as you can, I'm sorry for being a bit pissed off, I think my whole day has been ruined by some transphobic liar on here, I am actually ready to throw hands at the moment because he'll actively hurt my close friends by spreading lies about them and the community they're apart of.

[Cubus]

Depends if they are trans or rainbow activists.

I have no problem with trans, the latter ones are a different story.

[Guy13]

Self- mutilated and confused

[Asker]

Okay? How is it self-mutilation though? Also it's weird to call it "confusion" when they're very clear on what they want to look like and how they want to be perceived by others.

[AsaKyo]

I don't like or care for them