True or false, if toxic masculinity exists so must toxic femininity, otherwise neither exists and it's just toxic people?

[worldscolide]

The question speaks for its self. It's either true, or there are toxic people

My opinion, toxic masculinity is the same as saying toxic blackness or toxic Jewishness, or calling any other trait inherent to a race or in this case gender toxic.. There are toxic people no more no less..

And before you answer read the whole question.

[smashleyy]

Of course both exist. I really wish people would actually do research on topics they want to speak on. There’s an assumption that the term was created by feminists to attack men, which is not true. It originated in the mythopoetic mens movement in the 1980s. Unfortunately when you got people misusing a term or creating their own definitions of what they deem “toxic masculinity” the original intention gets lost. Toxic masculinity is not about putting a straightjacket on men and “turning them into girls”. Nor is it saying men are toxic or being masculine is bad. Its about those aspects of normalized masculinity that negatively affects MEN.

[worldscolide]

The original intention is irrelevant when such terms are used to silence, and beat men down as well as insult them

[smashleyy]

no it’s not irrelevant.

[worldscolide]

This is where im going to have to disagree. If it werent used as a term to cause harm, i might agree. But in this case, you're simply wrong here. And this is where i respectfully end the conversation because nothing you can comment or say here can change my mind on this matter.

[Agagagagaga]

The mythopoetic men’s rights movement of the 80s...

... that happened after men were harangued and brow beaten for being chauvinistic knuckle drafters for much of the 60s and 70s.

Don’t act like women didn’t have a goddamn thing to do with any of this nonsense.

[TrueConfection]

Can't we just blame all men? Toxic masculinity and toxic femininity (blame male trannies)?

Seriously though, I think those are ridiculous terms and yes some people are just rotten. I don't see why society needs labels for every detail.

[Steelcore5280]

It's human nature to label and classify things. That's how we make sense of the world around us.

[TrueConfection]

@Steelcore5280 I know what you mean, but it seems like things everywhere are getting microanalyzed.

[Sixgunsound]

It was discovered around WW1 era, when home propaganda took on a larger role than previously due to the technologies for governments to spew ideology into every home en masse, that it is easier to defeat (or even fight to begin with) a foe who was dehumanizing or othered. Now, it is standard practice to make the enemy weaker or less than in order to give one's own faction a moral or ideological advantage. In a so completely polarized nation, where "you're either with me or against me" stopped being funny over a decade ago when it came 'true', everything is political and thus either for or against someone. It's utterly ridiculous but there you have it.

[TrueConfection]

@Sixgunsound That's a good explanation. I just want off this crazy ride.

[TrueConfection]

Thank you for the MHO ❤

[worldscolide]

very welcome!

[Googlemyahoo]

here's what happened. All the orcs…. introverts and dorks have grown up & become educators. Now they’re seeking revenge on all the people they blame.

Anyone who displays traits they lack are toxic ! Those who say are gay, trans are special !

They indoctrinate impressionable teens primarily the orcs, unattractive, overweight, etc and tell them hey you’re better and special everyone else is toxic. They teach them to scream nazi, fascist, transphobe when people disagree with them.

[sirderpsalot123]

Toxic masculinity is just a way for feminists to insult/shame men.

Or women who have good intentions, but don't understand the men around them. They can't wrap their head around men not feeling the need to cry and talk about their feelings.

[sirderpsalot123]

Thanks for MHO

[Mamasanma]

But lot of men do find the need to express themselves but they are stigmatised for it. That's why most suicides are men.

Toxic masculinity is the reason for it.

[sirderpsalot123]

Don't women attempt suicide more than men commit suicide? I think there's more to it than just "men kill themselves because they don't talk about their feelings"

Most men are problem solvers. Crying and talking doesn't fix the problem. There are even studies that show that talk therapy doesn't do much for men.

For the most part, men are fine and when men are told not to cry, it doesn't mean be an emotionless robots... It just means don't cry over stupid shit (most men understand this and don't feel the need to cry over small things)

[Mamasanma]

Women get help with mental problems, but studies show many men don't get help because they are ashamed. Mostly it's men who actually go through with it as a result.

It's all because of toxic masculinity

[worldscolide]

@Mamasanma Its not ONLY because we are ashamed. the VAST majority of the psychology filed is geared toward women. Men process things differently and most psychologists just do not care to adjust their methods to fit men... Source.. i was in therapy most of my childhood.. None of it helped until i met a therapist who actually understood men. No matter how much they try to tell you that men and women are the same... We simply are not, We are fundamentally different.

[Mamasanma]

Still toxic masculinity is the basis for the problem

[worldscolide]

@Mamasanma lol no. Feminism. You can choose to believe me if you want or not, i do not care. It can't be toxic masculinity when the psychology fields are female dominated. In any case you're not going to win this one.

[Mamasanma]

I am saying toxic masculinity is the cause of the problem. Without it, men wouldn't be be as mentally damaged to commit suicide

[worldscolide]

@Mamasanma LOL No. you're not qualified to speak on masculinity to begin with. nor are you qualified to speak on the male experience. Full stop end of story end of discussion.

[sirderpsalot123]

@Mamasamna Toxic masculinity objectively can't exist because it it's just your opinion that says men not being as emotional as women is toxic. Your opinion isn't fact.

[msmissydc]

Of course it does exist. I somehow though this was obvious. And yes I somehow agree with your statement that these are "just" toxic people. Its the same as saying "extremists", while there are political extremists from left and right, climate extremists, religious extremists. These all fit under the category of extremist and toxic people respectively. Its just a way to more clearly define what type it is.

Another issue many people dont know what toxic femininity or masculinity is and just use it in weird ways. Somehow a lot of guys actually do like women who express toxic femininity.

[Spongebobssocks]

Yes they both exists. Its easy:

Toxic feminity=women acting like men

Toxic masculanity=men acting like women

For example:

Toxic feminity is when women act like men aren't needed and trying to act 100% independent.

Toxic masculanity is when men go by their emotions and act like a 8 year old bully with a crush calling himself an alpha.

I find men who refer themselves to an alpha and women who call themselves a feminist are usually the most toxic people.

[horndog112]

With that logic, does a dude getting pegged fall under the toxic masculinity?

[Spongebobssocks]

@horndog112 what do you mean by pegged?

[horndog112]

Lol you are going to have to look that one up

[Spongebobssocks]

@horndog112 : well.. no because its not spreading or runing anything to other people. Being toxic has to affect people in bad ways

[horndog112]

Haha I’m sure it could affect people in negative ways

[Spongebobssocks]

@horndog112 👀👀

[BungusHighFivePizza]

I don't like the both exists answer. I think this whole trend around guys calling themselves alpha male as we see nowadays started in the US when governments started making it more beneficial to be a single mother than a married one. The toxic side of masculinity as I see it came from a bunch of guys absent proper father figures to detoxify their masculinity and guide them in a noble path, like a path that protects weak people: women, children, cripples.

[BungusHighFivePizza]

Guys born under single mothers which is the case of so many poor people in the US from the 60s onwards don't have this detoxifying fatherly figure. So you get this as Denzel put it:

>> If the father is not in the home, the boy will find a father in the streets. I saw it in my generation and every generation before me, and every one since. If the streets raise you, then the judge becomes your mother and prison becomes your home." -- Denzel Washington

The irony is that feminists are teaching gender studies courses about "toxic masculinity" like it's some constant problem as I see it when they encouraged a lifestyle for women that kicks out male role models from their houses, inadvertently creating generations upon generations of fatherless men who just want to tap some ass.

[BungusHighFivePizza]

Feminists largely created "toxic masculinity" and oddly they complain about it most. It's largely their creation.

[Mamasanma]

Toxic masculinity is a genuine problem that causes problems for men and women.

[BungusHighFivePizza]

@Mamasanma How is it so attributed to masculinity though? If it was, I would expect it to manifest in a culturally-independent way and if anything, it seems so culturally-dependent, and therefore not a symptom of masculinity, but of a particular culture. For example, we do not have homophobia much here in Asia, since most of East Asia has atheistic or polytheistic origins which do not preach that homosexuality is an abomination.

There is no "masculine" aspect to the toxicity of homophobia; that's a religious aspect. I'd even point out that maybe the men we think most "masculine" in one way in our prisons have no problems having sex with other men.

[BungusHighFivePizza]

@Mamasanma And why can't we say toxic poor or possibly even low-class black culture? Because this obsession with asses and booty calls and players seems to have originated from low-class Western people, and primarily in the poorest aspects of the black community. Why generalize it to "masculinity" when the toxicity is coming from such a narrow subset of men?

[BungusHighFivePizza]

@Mamasanma Same with catcalling. People are confusing the behavior of blue collar construction workers and dumb state college students who couldn't enter a proper uni with "masculinity". Harvard graduates don't catcall women.

[Summeroflove]

Absolutely! Obviously there is toxic people of both sexes and there is women who can also be very toxic.

I can’t take anyone seriously who uses words like toxic masculinity or mansplaining. Because it’s sexist and misandrist, if someone doesn’t think women can’t be like that. Think again.

There is toxic people in this world both male and female.

[Anonymous]

Doesn't matter what these women say, tons of them will still say things like Andrew Tate is toxic while also thinking women who act like Andrew Tate are confident.

Fuck, most women have no idea what true masculinity is, that's why tons of them fall for the fake masculine assholes and date them.

Also, you can still be an "asshole" to women and be masculine at the same time. Masculine has nothing to do with being nice to random women, especially if the women only want you for your money, status, or looks.

[Steelcore5280]

I think so. If we are gonna use the logic of "toxic masculinity" that Feminists and Liberals like to mindlessly throw around whenever they don't like something a guy does or says, toxic femininity has to also exist, contrary to what those who like to be politically correct like to claim.

Either both exist, or neither of them exist. Can't wait to see how offended the PC people who disguise their hate for men get over this question.

[Sirenboobzilla]

Toxicity is toxicity. We are not the angels we're made out to be. The abuse of double standards is proof enough that we can be just as toxic as any toxic man

[Johnny4473]

The problem is people misusing these words to represent their own agenda. Take feminism for example, is the idea of feminism a bad thing?

No, anyone with half a braincell would agree that women and men shohld have equal rights that allow them to have equal opportunities. And as society advances, those laws must be amended to keep the playing field fair. So that a man or a woman regardless, have the opportunity to hone their talents and skills and give the best to society.

But then came the radicals and completely coopted the movement and turn it into a man hating movement. They actively try to change laws to take away rights from men.

How many women today are willing to say they are feminists? The term has become an insult and a slur.

The same is with toxic masculinity, is there a mental health crisis amongst men? Yes, of course. Is toxic masculinity a part of it? Yes. Who is responsible for the propagation of toxic masculinity? All of us

[Fuentes]

Toxic feminist doest exist the women who are telling men to not do things for them most woman like and then shaming the women for liking it. Just like the crazy women who hate traditional women. Like y'all a God dang women and us men are gonna treat u as such no we will not look at u as an equal or another man buddy that is seriously SuS af. All SJW's and Feminist stay away from me.

I mean I'll smash them but won't date them.

[Anonymous]

Well duh of course it also exists. Toxic masculinity are just more looked down upon somehow than toxic femininity is (or at least more focused on). I also think so many people dont really understand what “toxic masculinity” (or femininity) means. They just see almost everything as toxic masculinity even though its not. Which is why a lot of people disagree with it, when its not really wrong.

[Opinion Owner]

Lol yup, definitely misunderstood, reading at the other opinions.

[Siri137]

Yes, I would agree with that. Toxicity is in any case a measure of harmfulness, the degree to which a substance that is otherwise benign or beneficial becomes poisonous, so too much of anything (masculinity, femininity) isn't good for anyone.

[PenkWing]

It's true. Any gender performance can become toxic. "Toxic masculinity" deserves a special name because it's not only about the person. It's intermingled with the power position that men have in society. What makes it toxic is not just a "toxic" personality trait, but the amount of damage that a man can exert without being held accountable, because it's assumed that it's normal "masculine" behavior.

[Lionman95]

I think it´s just a thing of toxic people. Because the list of character attributes people deem toxic is subjective in my view since what one considers toxic another person might not and vice versa.

[petitedollbabee]

Ofcourse it exists, I don’t know who said it doesn’t. But at the end of the day toxic people exist, it’s not really gender based.

[WanderingLoveWizard]

I don't think either exist

Being a douche bag or a bitch exists, but I don't relate those to how masculine or feminine you are

[FinalFantasyBro]

True if toxic masculinity really does exist than obviously toxic femininity is a real thing to you can't blame one gender on their short comings and not blame the other on their short comings fair is fair.

[richardcory]

I don't like either term. There are both men and women with what I consider extreme and poisonous ideas of gender.

[StormChaser838]

Masculinity and femininity are fine, only the toxic is bad & should go.

[Dargil]

Men haven't changed much in 5,000 years. Toxic masculinity is... masculinity.
When the women go to hell as they now are, empires fall.

[Aniih]

WRONG!!! Those terms are talking about systematic ideas that hurt men and women, such as; "boys don't cry", "women are their worse enemy", "man cannot experience sexual abuse", "If you don't drink alcohol you're weak"... Stuff like that.

[TacosRAwesome]

All three exist, toxic masculinity, toxic femininity and toxic people.

[DarkLegacy]

Both exist but toxic femininity is much more common thanks to feminism

[SAMI_DABBAB]

Definitely true, if you're toxic you're toxic and it should be clear as day

[Manuel2]

True and even more dangerous. When the evil woman puts on the fake tears routine. You can end up in jail

[Shamalien]

Toxic femininity and toxic masculinity are different beasts and both exist

[LiamJHayden]

Logically, that is not necessary. In reality, as you explain, certain people are toxic.

[LazerBean]

It's just toxic people.

[dynamicyandere]

That’s what I’ve been thinking too. There’s nothing inherently toxic about masculinity or femininity.

Whenever we see an example of toxic [insert]inity, it’s always a case of someone just being disrespectful and emotionally immature.

[DizzyDesii]

Anyone can be toxic regardless of gender and race

[Uannoyme]

Toxic people. Some people just suck.

[Someonerandomgirllol]

Just toxic in general

[AdithyaR]

Of course they both exist.

[Friendlybro79]

Agree for sure.

[TheUniqueOne96]

Yep, I agree.

[jimmy2]

Very true I married one

[Agape93]

True

[LovingJo]

Correct 💯

[mommymommymommy]

Humans suck. Period