Do you believe toxic masculinity exists or is it just toxic people that exist?

[coachTanthony]

Toxic masculinity exists

Only toxic people exist

see poll ( Coach you are the greatest of all time )

[DenizLikesTennis]

This question is the same as you'd ask: Are all Africans good in basketball and europeans below?"

No. Hell no. It's about respect here and the individual. Look at eminem... he is white and the number one selling artist and best rapper in the world that won the rock N Roll hall of fame... he is an idol... a good role model. A realist.

Now it's the same with the toxic masculinity. A different contrast with the same meaning. The World isn't so simple that it only consists of toxic masculinity and all good females.

I mean...

that's even crazy to think about it, where people believe only one-sided and don't think that people could be different (being narrow minded). There are just good and bad people. Whether you are male or female. Good and bad.

What this question also reveals is that it is also about the CULTURE. We are all born and been raised in DIFFERENT CULTURES. These are Ideas and social behaviour of PARTICULAR people. So to conclude > NOT EVERYONE.

Dualism > when something is divided into two opposed or contrasted aspects. You see a picture with 2 Colors that is divided in black and white. You have to observe the picture AS A WHOLE.

And so is the same with "toxic" people. You don't focus only on the toxic but also on the good qualities. I am not saying that I support toxic people. What I am saying is that the human is more than 1 quality.

So saying that there is just toxic masculinity that exists and not people is like saying: "Humans are not worthy".

[DenizLikesTennis]

If I was to define "toxic masculinity", then I'd say > patriarchy. Wife in the kitchen and home 24/7, Babies and children better not talk and obey, the man is the Kingpin and has right above everyone.

AND THIS CULTURE EXISTED over centuries ago.
AND this is what feminism is about. The equality between a woman and a man. The woman also wants to do some stuff. Clubbing, partying, having sex. Enjoying their lives. Hell. What's wrong about it?

What I don't support on both sides is the Bitterness, the battle, the jealousy, the hostility. Man!! This all needs to stop. I can feel it when I read all these type of topics where women and men clash in the comment section. This question is also upsetting at some point. There is no perfect gender!!! We all stink in some way, lol.

[Chazmatazz269]

You’re kind of asking two different questions. The present intonation of “toxic masculinity” is rooted in the ways men are destructive to women and society at large. In this way, there are certainly toxic people, male and female, who are destructive to others and society at large. Men and women can be destructive in the same ways, or in very different ways. This might compel some people to refer specifically “toxic masculinity” or “toxic femininity”.
However, the origin of the term “toxic masculinity” is thought to be from an early mens’ movement. Men who struggled with the ways in which traditional masculinity can be self diminishing and even self destructive began to identify specific behaviors that were eventually labeled “toxic”. Like a poison, toxic to SELF. Any man who has recognized his own worth and resists self destructive behaviors because of it has faced toxic masculinity even if he might not feel that way let alone say it. The newer term, “toxic femininity” is less about how women are self diminishing or self destructive and more in response to the use of “toxic masculinity” as a degradation of men and masculinity in general. Both have become new ways for people to marginalize others, rather than a means to empower anyone. It’s a GD shame, if you ask me.

[APrettyLittleLady87]

What IS toxic masculinity?

When you read about it ALL it is describing are traits & characteristics that are developed through abusive households. Seriously go volunteer with children of abusive households and you'll see MANY of the "toxic masculinity" traits in them. A child who is beaten by their parents as an example is going to be aggressive, fail to show emotions, etc. - characteristics attributed to "toxic masculinity".

So in reality toxic masculinity is NOTHING more than a manifestation of TOXIC humanity. If you tell me that women do not behave like "toxic" men - particularly when women can be bitchy, nasty, petty, etc. - I'd laugh for so hard & for so long I'd die.

[shaysh87]

I find it very funny how men on here complain that masculine men don't exist any more or that every modern man is a beta. YET, these very same guys complain that there is toxic masculinity. You can't make the claim that all guys are feminine while toxic masculinity exists. Its a contradiction.

[coachTanthony]

LOL true

[BlueScorpio]

A person's femininity or masculinity isn't what makes them toxic. It's their mindset or lack morals that does.

[RiseofArtemis]

Toxic behavior has no gender. Feminists use it often to attack men. How do you weaken someone who is clearly above you, you attack him personally and hope he'll break.

[MzAsh]

I believe there is a narrative that encourages men to use their masculinity in a toxic manner. But I’d masculinity toxic in itself? No.

[coachTanthony]

"I believe there is a narrative that encourages men to use their masculinity in a toxic manner."

Allow me to rephrase. I believe there is a narrative that encourages men to use their childhood traumas in a violent way that appears as if it's part of some animalistic "THING" inside of them instead of just realizing it's deep anger which happens with everyone.

[Guy___]

Assuming this was the truth, the men who are victims to this narrative just aren't masculine enough to think for themselves.

[coachTanthony]

@Guy___ I can't disagree

[MzAsh]

For example, Fresh and Fit actual tweets.

“most women don’t respect male authority because they haven’t experienced it.”

What could they be talking about here? Most women have experienced having a male supervisor in which they respect. This leads me to wonder what overseeing “authority” he’s referring to if not that, and why should women inherently have to respect it? I don’t get it.

“Women cannot make their own decisions.” This implies that men should be making all decisions for women.

“Women are hard wired to look for guys who do not give a fuck about them.” In other words, stop giving a fuck about women and she’ll love you forever.

This is all toxic af, but is this childhood trauma? I don't know. To me, this is simply immature masculine energy being pushed, and men are eating it because it flatters that juvenile ego, which is extremely common.

But perhaps there’s something I’m missing.

[ronaldo75]

So basically you know the concept of masculinity is bullshit but you can't leave a comment that doesn't take *some kind* of dig at men, instead of just saying both men and women can be toxic. Wow.

[ronaldo75]

Toxic* Masculinity

[MzAsh]

Of course both men and women can be toxic but this topic isn’t about both men and women, is it?

[coachTanthony]

You would need to ask the two loons from Fresh and Fit why they talk the way they do. They don't speak for all men out here ya know.

[MzAsh]

I’d hope not but they do have many subscribers and that concerns me.

[SpokenTruth]

What narrative might that be to push men to use toxic masculinity? That narrative would be feminism. There could not be a bigger narrative to push toxic femininity than feminism. In fact the right homework would prove that was and is the whole idea behind feminism was and is to push it's roots aka Marxism.

[MzAsh]

There’s definitely toxicity in feminism too. I get tired of the victim narrative. The world is a woman’s oyster, we have the choices, the opportunity, and we don’t need anyones permission. But parts of feminism keeps trying to ask permission for everything. It’s not necessary. Live on your terms and stop caring so much who likes it or not.

[SpokenTruth]

The world is a woman's oyster you are absolutely right about that. Women have and have always had privileges that men will never see including the privilege to systematically walk on men. But know that day is coming to an end very soon sooner than you would think the process is already underway. Isaiah 4:1 In that day seven women will take hold of one man and say, “We will eat our own food and provide our own clothes; only let us be called by your name. Take away our disgrace!”
Isaiah 13:12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

An Oracle Concerning Babylon
…11I will punish the world for its evil and the wicked for their iniquity. I will end the haughtiness of the arrogant and lay low the pride of the ruthless. 12I will make man scarcer than pure gold, and mankind rarer than the gold of Ophir. 13Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken from its place at the wrath of the LORD of Hosts on the day of His burning anger.…

[MzAsh]

Well, I’m not religious but I believe men and women can learn to work together and when approaching relationships properly, can respect each other as partners in an even ground.

[Avicenna]

I'd say there are toxic people whose toxicity is expressed in different ways

[MCheetah]

No. Being an asshole has no gender and there's nothing wrong with (actual) masculinity. "Toxic masculinity" is just a bullsh*t movement to feminize men into useless cucks and soyboys who do nothing useful for society. These also, appropriately enough, tend to be the only 'males' out there who actually believe in "toxic masculinity." Anything to artificially raise their social market value with women to get sex, right?

Ironically - or appropriately - they also try to turn women into these sh*tty pseudo "Alpha Male" wannabes as their idea of "Strong Female Characters" who are the very thing they criticize men for being, empowering women to just be "toxic males with vaginas."

It really is insidious how they try to portray masculinity as "evil" and femininity as "sexist/misogynist" just to turn women into overpowered, macho Mary Sues with vaginas and men into useless soy losers.

So option B; males and females can be sh*theads, but "masculinity" nor femininity has anything to do with it.

[inhua]

toxic masculinity is a term made up by feminists and reinforced by male feminists who want to complain about masculine traits but have no issue perpetuating these traits on to and this is often used against men. this goes hand in hand with the myth of male privilege which is used to dispel any possibility of men having problems of their own.

the "toxic masculine" traits that a lot of these feminists and male feminists like to point out is not gendered and can exist in women too. stoicism and keeping one's own self emotions in check happens a lot with the "strong independent woman" who won't make herself emotionally vulnerable to the average or below average man but only start being girly in front of attractive men. the hyper-competitiveness that men supposedly have (which nowadays a lot of them don't) can be seen when women often compete for the same guy, tearing each other apart in looks, lifestyle etc with endless bitching and slut shaming more so than any man can imagine. and when it comes to domestic violence, it is about as one-sided as it gets. there are YouTube videos of social experiments that show various public reactions to a woman hitting a man and a man hitting a woman.

[AdithyaR]

Toxic masculinity exists but 90% people don't know the meaning of it.
A lot of people just outright think masculinity is toxic and that's wrong. Masculinity in itself is not toxic at all.
The thing is, if a person forces ideals on themselves or others, or denied themselves something purely based on the idea that "it's not manyl" that's toxic masculinity.
For example, let's say there's a dude who loves going to the gym, fishing, watching sports or any other activity that's traditionally considered masculine. But he enjoys doing these genuinely, no masculinity at all.

But suppose a guy likes baking but doesn't do it cause he feels it's girly, or he bottles up his emotions because he feels it's unmanly to do so. That's toxic masculinity.

Baseline is, don't let some archiac idea of what a man is supposed to be define you and your actions. As long as you do what you like, treat others well, you're essentially a healthy masculine man.

[coachTanthony]

But suppose a guy likes baking but doesn't do it cause he feels it's girly, or he bottles up his emotions because he feels it's unmanly to do so. That's toxic masculinity.

LOL Toxic to who himself?

[suzzieQ]

Yes, toxic to him self first and foremost and then to the people around him, his significant other and children specifically.

[coachTanthony]

@suzzieQ Okay but has nothing to do with masculinity because the same could go for women going crazy out there mind for child hood trauma but we don't call it toxic feminity?

[Haha456]

Toxic feminity is GAG men pressuring women to br housewives

[AdithyaR]

Toxic femininity exists too. Both sides have toxic traits ingrained into their culture.

[AdithyaR]

Toxic femininity might show itself as internalised misogyny in women. Like judging a childfree woman or judging a woman for choosing a career over a relationship.

[suzzieQ]

It absolutely does when people and society take those toxic qualities and label them as masculinity.

[Haha456]

@AdithyaR

women who dont ever want kids get judged the worst. people act nice to your face after you tell them that then they leave to go talk shit behind your back.

[SpokenTruth]

@suzzieQ During the 80's and 90's before men were so falsely unjustly false witnessed against and vilified so to the point can't even go anywhere near children anywhere without consequences when when I had no other work I was called to watch children. I saw more toxic femininity to those children than so called toxic masculinity. From feminist indoctrination to mental torment I watched it happen and I witnessed female system hypocrisy against men too.

[Haha456]

@SpokenTruth

vast majority of child molesters , pedophiles are men.

[SpokenTruth]

@Haha456 And that translates to the vast majority of reported and punished pedophiles are men. Women get what is known to men as the pu**y pass. If a man were to get involved with a minor it's criminal but when women do it it's a relationship. Believe me I have seen it happen personally we were around 14 years old she was in her mid 30's divorced with children. She worked at a local store with a small game room and she started making eyes at him. They ended up in involved she ended up getting pregnant they split up and he was paying child support by age 18, This was in the early 80's WE WERE CLOSE FRIENDS I say it happen, those it town knew about them including the authorities. And thanks to the brainwashing you have even though I took care of children during the 80's and 90's, I will never again be able to go near children again without having to worry about accusations, I stay far far away from women and children now. It's a shame I had so much I would have loved to teach children loved children and loved their being around them their company. But thanks to western feminist brainwashing that will never happen now. That said since I can't post links you have to decipher it and that video is for you. youtube-com/watch? v=0H1EkSAmbHk

[Haha456]

@SpokenTruth

Men are more likely to be rapists , child molesters because men are the more sociopathic and sexual gender. Not because men get arrested more. There is no law that allows females to be rapists or molesters

Studies have proven men are more violent, impulsive, reckless, narcissistic and nore prone to sociopathy

[Haha456]

@SpokenTruth

Take a look at all the wars, its all started by men

Take a look at gangs, its all made up by men

[SpokenTruth]

@Haha456 Decipher the link mentalfloss-com/article/74643/europes-queens-were-more-likely-go-war-its-kings

[Haha456]

@SpokenTruth

there aren't enough queens throughout our history to say that female rulers are more likely to start wars than male rulers. 2 female rulers is too insufficient of a number to represent billions of women. Overall, vast majority of violent crimes are committed by men. Vast majority of people who start wars are men. Vast majority of gun users are men.

Men are also more dangerous drivers. why do you think men have to pay more for car insurance than women?

men are the more dangerous gender

[Haha456]

@SpokenTruth

With three decades of data from more than 475,000 participants, a new study on narcissism from the University at Buffalo School of Management reveals that men, on average, are more narcissistic than women.

www.sciencedaily.com/.../150304104040.htm

Men were significantly more likely than women to meet criteria for narcissistic, antisocial, and obsessive-compulsive personality disorders

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7694907/

[SpokenTruth]

@Haha456 You shouldn't be getting your information through feminist channels. Here is the actual truth. Women are the most notorious murderers throughout the history of mankind and on planet earth. Within only a span of 50 years women have committed more murders than any rulers or tyrants in the history of the world, 63,459,781 of them through abortion alone one record states. And that is not to even mention the infanticide. Apparently you don't bother doing any research on things before you accuse someone as with this example you pointing your finger at men. And that's how the misandry got it's start though feminist propaganda spread for the purpose of a agenda.

As far as the gangs you mentioned? All you have to do is a few clicks to research what you are pushing to see if your claims hold any truth to them, you obviously don't bother. Decipher the link:
youtube-com/watch? v=_GUZnkO8z9U

[AdithyaR]

@Haha456 I've seen that happen first hand, I've got a friend who doesn't want kids and her entire family gives her crap out it.

[Haha456]

@SpokenTruth

female rulers aren't more likely to start wars than male rulers. In fact, 99% of all wars in history were started by men.

[Kinkyhubby]

All this toxic masculinity is a bullshit. And it people trying to point figlngers on why they are. The truth is any person at any time can be ass holes. People also don't like to take responsibility for their own actions, and umtey to use this as a crutch. My father would spank me as a kid if I screw up. I don't call him toxic masculinity, what it taught me was there are consequences to your personal choices and actions. Part of today youth andyoung adults is the "I want it now, and I deserve it". I see ass holes every day. Rude people every day. People breaking the laws or the road everyday. Society has become a "me, me, me first society" and I'm in a rush. People don't respect others. Woman can be just as toxic, they aren't as physical, but are more mental, I seen then try to turn kids against dad, in divorce. So how about we change toxic masculinity to people are toxic and ass holes.

[coachTanthony]

The truth is any person at any time can be ass holes.

YUP

[TheUniqueOne96]

Toxic people exist, both male and female.

It's just that when men do something, it's seen as something that's 'ingrained' into them.

By definition, toxic masculinity is stereotypical crappy behavioral traits that are more common amongst males or commonly associated with them and whilst that does exist, you can't sit back and say that there aren't crappy female ones - trust me, I can list them.

I think this term is often times a desperate attempt for women, predominantly feminazis to pull out the victim card and attack men as usual.

[DoctorSex]

This can be broken down to simple logic

Women are: X X chromosomes

Men are: X Y chromosomes

So by deduction, it is the Y chromosome that is the masculine.

Whatever behaviour you find explicitly in men, is the masculine.

Behaviours you can find in both men and women, is feminine.

So the question then becomes,

Do women lie, cheat, steal, attack violently others, manipulate, control?

If yes, then these traits cannot be masculine.

So does toxic masculinity exist, probably? But no by the metrics that are used to currently describe it. It is more likely that men are behaving in toxic feminine ways at present and it is the hate of the feminine dark side inside of men that a lot of women hate.

Kind regards,

DoctorSex

[Weapon77]

There are just good men and bad men, just lkke their are good and bad people. Calling sexual harassment toxic masculinity is pretensing that it is masculinr when it is actually just creepy/pathetic, and pretends like women don't sexually harass too (which they do). That then means we'd have to acknowledgr toxic femininity, which is ridiculous. We are just coming up for new words for things we already know and have terms for. Bad people are bad people, period. No need to come up with innecessarily complicated terms for them

[ShadezMcgee]

Depends how we want to look at this. Personally I believe it is just toxic people who take offense to certain aspects of masculinity or femininity that cause the whole claims of behavior being toxic when it is just simply embodying what makes men men and women women.

[coachTanthony]

I like it.

[Googlemyahoo]

All the introverts & essentially losers grew up to become teachers & educators. They’ve started this false narrative against all normal societal aspects they abhor. They try to push the idea their values are special & everything else is fascist or toxic.

Kids in school see the “special” kids getting extra attention so they claim to be the same. They end up ruining their lives.

[coachTanthony]

too generalized for me to agree but I think you are almost there.

[USLegionary]

Its just another made up word designed to attack people because of their gender. If you are an asshole then that's what you are regardless of masculinity

[CrazyGirl2]

I believe toxic people exist in BOTH sexes! Some of the nicest, sweetest, most kindhearted people I’ve ever met were guys. And some of the nastiest, most toxic humans were female! toxicity is a personality flaw, not a gender trait! Do men suddenly lose their “toxicity” if they come out as transgender? And if they are not toxic, why not? They were men, they are male (regardless what clothes they wear) and I happen to believe that trans-women are women, but until they came out they were male… where did their toxicity go, if it IS a male trait?

[monorprise]

There are toxic people, particular among those who have ever reason to regard others cheaply.
This is unfortunately increasingly common among women who see large numbers of men on social media throwing themselfs at them just as it is common among the top 20% of men who also have all women chasing them.

So you would expect to see far more toxic women then men, but women by narrow and unrealistic standards are far more likely to encounter the Toxic men.

As usual Women are also far more likely to complain about it.

[normalice]

It's sort of like asking, if magic existed, what are "magic words"? Are the words magic or do they just describe magic that was already existing without them?

I think anything "primal" is a catalyst for toxic behavior. The need for food can turn people toxic. The need for water. The need for air. Certainly the need for validation would also be a thing that makes people toxic if they go too long without it. And what is "masculinity" other than wanting validation for being Big and Strong or whatever.

[normalice]

I would further say that toxic masculinity is men who seek validation for not needing validation. That is necessarily impossible, which can make people toxic.

[normalice]

I have. It seems to describe the symptoms instead of the cause,

[Msputiton]

The idea of toxic masculinity isn't bashing masculinity.

It is bashing the false narrative of what makes a man masculine. Yes they are very toxic people because they are taught it is how men are supposed to be.

"To be a man, you must 24/7 try to prove your manhood. Never show emotion unless it's anger. Always walk around trying to be intimidating. Always walk around being overly aggressive in hopes of proving your masculine. This is toxic masculinity."

Normal Masculine men don't need to prove it because they know they can beat that ass if need to be. They will naturally prove their masculinity because it is natural and not forced.

So toxic masculinity is from the result of people teaching men incorrectly what it means to be a man.

[CallmeTheKnight]

People are toxic. Weak men are toxic. Men who can't control their emotions are toxic. Masculinity can never be toxic because it is necessary for men to be masculine. It is necessary to protect. It is necessary to be tenacious.
Men must be men for the world to survive... For us all to survive...

[SassyAussieAddy]

Toxic masculinity is a set of unhealthy behaviors and ideas that boys are raised with that later makes it difficult for them later in life.

Toxic people are just toxic themselves where as toxic masculinity can follow someone even when they are alone.

[coachTanthony]

What are the set of behaviors? Should boys be raised like girls?

[Anonymous]

Of course it exists. Masculinity can be expressed in a toxic way and in a noble way. But the same is true with femininity as well. And if you think of what's the greater problem in Western society today and you're not an ahistoric retard you'd realize that we've pretty much gotten toxic masculinity well and truly under control. How many deaths are there per year as a result of interpersonal violence and how does that compare to 100 years ago, 200 years ago, etc? Answer: a fuck-ton less.

Toxic femininity on the other hand? All the shit that goes along with cancellation and reputational assassination? Fucking up kids with too much anxiety and not enough strength and control? Yeah--that's a fucking PROBLEM and it's getting WORSE.