Is toxic masculinity real?

Question

I'll be honest as a guy. I absolutely think there are some cases of toxic masculinity. However, I do admit to being a proselyte on this issue. It used to upset me so much when someone would say toxic masculinity is real, but ever since I got into officiating sports I can see it now. Grown men yelling and screaming because a call didn't go his way in baseball? That's absolutely ridiculous to cause such an uproar because you think the referee missed the foul under the hoop, or you think the umpire missed a strike on the corner. To go batshit crazy over something like that is toxic. That is how I switched my views on this matter. What do you guys think?

https://youtu.be/v1ZadbBNSJg

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

Toxic masculinity isn't all masculinity... it's just the way that some men are conditioned to think that any form of femininity is wrong and that the worst thing that could happen to them is being seen as feminine or a girl. Basically it's when men become fixated on trying to prove their masculinity to an unhealthy point. So they avoid expressing emotions or crying because they're so fixated by society to believe that they can't. Like when parents tell their children "Be a man, you can't cry!" How is that not toxic? It's unhealthy to tell a child not to cry, to be honest.

Many believe this is why males commit suicide more than women. Because women are more likely to seek help and aren't as ridiculed by society when they do.

Toxic masculinity is just the result of a standard that society has set up for men. And once again, not every male is toxic, not all masculinity is toxic, but there are a lot of cases of toxic masculinity out there.

PrincessGrail · Accepted Answer

I voted B.

RolandCuthbert · Accepted Answer

But dude, that is funny masculinity! How can we be men if we can't get mad over nothing? I remember last year seeing the Cubs catcher, I can't remember his name, get into it with a guy from the Dodgers. It was so funny. The guy got waved through to come home and the catcher received the ball. Well, anyway. . . the catcher turns to tag the guy and the guy is no where near home plate. He was barely 3/4s of the way there. And he was mad because he was basically dead on arrival. So the catcher tags him and they get into a fight because the guy was mad that he didn't a chance to score.

It happened right in front of us. So we were screaming at him that he needed to go back and kick the crap out of the third base coach. He was the idiot who waved him through!

Haha!!!

But I love the fact that we go all nuts and stuff over stupid things like sports or competitions. It is one of the things that makes us masculine.

OlderAndWiser · Accepted Answer

I refuse to use the word "toxic" in conjunction with "masculinity" because it suggests that all males have a latent condition that is waiting to erupt, and. . . why doesn't anyone complain about toxic femininity. This is just a tool of the feminists to try to denigrate men and assert their dominance.

MzAsh · Answer

The red pill, mras, and mgtow are toxic as all hell and back. I’ll just say that much is fact.

ADFSDF1996 · Answer

Toxic masculinity isn’t real but toxic people are real.

4n0nym4us · Answer

I can't answer to either of your options. Toxicity is too broad a term psychologically that to chisel out a segment and ask simply "is masculinity toxic" is limiting yourself to finding what "toxic" really is.

From a guy standpoint there's many levels in which drudgery may drag one down long enough, hard enough to become toxic towards others. Many reasons may or may not be due to testosterone. I'll give a few examples.

1) Acceptance: it is possible that as a guy we want to be accepted, listen to, quoted, admired, wanted, etc. However, if these feelings are not satisfied, then what? I bet in your workplace you hear when one is not accepted, they become dejected. Anyone who allows themselves to stay in such a state would become toxic.

2) Relationships: you can look up "The Red Pill" or "Incel" on this one and you can see what comes across as toxic masculinity. I've never looked up the feminine side of the coin on this issue but I've heard many times a lady here or there commenting that being in a relationship or looking for love is terrible and a waste of life. Are we to conclude that this is toxic masculinity or toxic femininity? Or, simply more of item #1?

3) Ego/Envy/Jealousy: assume there's a guy and he's super livid on the idea that I married the woman of my dreams and he's still single. This guy being livid, would probably spew some negative crap about me, her, or both of us. Is that to say that's toxic masculinity? My ex-gf's daughter a few years back tried to commit suicide because her friends were "ahead in life and left her behind". Meaning that her friends were married and had kids and she didn't. Now, because this woman tried to kill herself. Does that mean she has toxic femininity?

Not to throw a red herring but what about other negative aspects of human life? Murder, theft, extortion, etc. Have you heard of a masculine or feminine theft?

The idea is that facets of ourselves do not always imply a sexual derivative. Sure, our identity shape who we are, what we do, and how we think and feel. However, to lump such feelings to a common sex doesn't seem right to me.

I don't like to think that to be masculine or feminine is the source of toxicity. Instead, it's the individual and how that individual processes and shares information that truly creates a toxic situation.

SuperManiac · Answer

Well, what's meant by "masculinity"? Any of us can listen to testosterone and challenge any belligerent person to a fight, tease people who are cowardly, indulge in the most popular things that other testosterone-driven beasts do, indulge in all of our sexual desires, and gloat about all of this.

That's just testosterone unchecked as I see it. That's not "masculinity" in any sense besides biology unchecked as I see it. This, to me, is an example of masculinity as it relates to values, discipline, and keeping that testosterone-driven raging bull in check:

>> "To be moved by anger is not manly, but courtesy and kindness, as they are more agreeable to human nature, so also are they more manly; and he who possesses these qualities possesses strength, nerves and courage, and not the man who is subject to fits of rage and discontent. The nearer one's mind is to freedom from anger, the nearer it is to strength, and as pain is a characteristic of weakness, so also is anger. For he who yields to pain and he who yields to anger, both are wounded and submit." -- Marcus Aurelius

That's actually difficult. That's a value. That requires discipline. I call it "masculinity" because anyone but a complete coward can be a thug. It takes more to be "masculine" in my opinion. That takes maturity, wisdom, discipline, accountability, integrity, etc.

What feminists call "toxic masculinity" in my eyes is a lack of masculinity. They are mostly criticizing the villains in historical tales that we all admire and not the heroes. The heroes are "masculine" in my eyes. The villains are just emotional types prone to vengeance, lust, jealousy, anger, grudges, malice, etc. The villain isn't a "man" in my eyes no matter how "macho". He's a "boy" who probably lacked a strong masculine figure growing up to teach him how to put principles above passions.

abananabag · Answer

Of course it is real. Just take a look at the comments section and notice the man who fears "feminists" are trying to "assert dominance" over him. Seriously? Dominance? Our culture encourages this "must be alpha" mentality which causes men to have such messed up responses when they perceive themselves as "losers": anger as the only acceptable emotion, violence, nihilism, and suicide.

A guy I know, after his wife divorced him, started talking about "the feminists" and "the SJWs" who were trying to bring him down. He bought an expensive car and a gun. He proudly voted for an openly misogynistic candidate while acknowledging the politician would be a terrible leader. When I asked, then why vote for him, he said, "he'll blow the whole system up!"

If it weren't for toxic masculinity, he would have had healthier ways to "be a man". The sad thing is, he's right that the system is messed up and unfair to him. What he doesn't recognize is that toxic masculinity is the system and he's perpetuating it in the children he's teaching. (Did I mention he's a school teacher? Oh yeah, just the perfect guy to shape young minds...)

coachTanthony · Answer

The real question is: Where do these sexist attitudes come from? Are men and boys just the victims of cultural brainwashing into misogyny and aggression, requiring reeducation into the “right” beliefs?

Or are these problems more deep-seated, and created by the myriad insecurities and contradictions of men’s lives under gender inequality? The problem with a crusade against toxic masculinity is that in targeting culture as the enemy, it risks overlooking the real-life conditions and forces that sustain culture.

In my opinion toxic masculinity is not real. Bad Behavior from men doesn't mean all men have this disease called "Toxic Masculinity."

HungLikeAHorsefly · Answer

I think a lot of people get upset because they confuse "toxic masculinity" with masculinity in general. Like, they think when people bring it up, they're saying that being masculine is any way is toxic. That's not what this is all about, though.

I totally believe toxic masculinity exists, and that men would be better off across the board if we addressed it as a real issue. I mean, going around not dealing with mental health issues, taking offense at everything, being irrationally bitter about women, having unhealthy relationships with other men, etc. is just going to kill you sooner and make you miserable until then. And it's not exactly brave to pretend like there isn't a problem just so you don't have to muster the courage to deal with your issues. That's weak, fearful behavior. And it's toxic.

A-man-22 · Answer

I get the idea but it's the wording that is wrong.

Masculinity is something that all men have. Blaming it this like blaming all men for being male.

Toxic individuals or Toxic traditions, yes those exist.

Example:
people who insist that men pay on the first date.

Toxic masculinity, no
Toxic tradition, yes

Example 2:
Abuse and violation
Toxic masculinity, no
Toxic individuals, yes

It works both ways.

Example 3:
Women expecting men to make the first move
Toxic femininity, no
Toxic tradition, yes

turd_of_warning · Answer

It's disspiriting that feminists are complaining about toxic masculinity, since women are some of its biggest boosters.

Something like 95% of murders are committed by men. Why? That capacity for violence must serve some adaptive function, or evolution would have weeded it out long ago. And it does. Soldiers are required to be violent if necessary. The same goes for the police. The same goes for a husband and father if his family is threatened.

Now examine the kinds of men women tend to find sexy. They do not tend to be weak men. They don't tend to be doormats. This becomes very clear if you date women, if you read romance novels (basically porn for women), or if you examine the surprising volume of steamy fan mail famous murderers receive from women. Dangerous men are sexy. Harmless men are not.

Anonymous · Answer

No masculinity is never toxic, PEOPLE ARE TOXIC there are toxic people out there both men and women, the term toxic masculinity was contrived by man hating feminists to put a spin on toxic people making it sound like only men can be toxic while women can’t do any harm, sorry but that’s extreamly sexist talk, like why do we never talk about how toxic women can be? How women bully more, they actually initiate domestic violence more often, they lie in courts to steal children away from men, but these are never talked about because feminists won’t stop blaming men

Bananaman177 · Answer

So is toxic femininity. I think we should discuss both whenever we discuss either.

SirRexington · Answer

Of course it's real. I don't think even the most stupid of conservatives are saying it isn't.

What I am saying personally is that how we describe toxic masculinity is often not anything inherently toxic. The truth is, it's not the masculinity that's toxic but the man who chooses to use it as such. Often what gets described as being "toxic" masculinity is literally just "traditional" masculinity. This traditional form is neither toxic nor virtuous. Rather it is the individual man who chooses HOW to use these traits in his encounters with people that makes it so.

LogicBomber · Answer

There is nothing toxic about masculinity.
Masculinity has created and maintained the world we live in.
Masculinity is no more violent or evil than femininity.
Women are just as likely to be violent, manipulative, evil, etc.
But since society ignores the vast majority of female actions like these, it's generally seen as a "male" thing.

But masculinity is: Working hard, putting our lives on the line for others, being strong, being inventive, being protective, etc.
NONE of these are "toxic" things.

DDpsy · Answer

Just a problem with your example

JayParris · Answer

Nothing about masculinity is toxic. Some behavior is toxic (harmful). Masculinity, or manliness, is never harmful. The harm comes when a man forgets he's a man and starts acting like a child. Same thing with femininity.

So it really should be labeled toxic immaturity. A mature adult doesn't act that way.

Uru_DS · Answer

Masculinity is not toxic.
It's the definition of masculinity that people have changed to fit their own delusional beliefs and support their actions.
Also the interpretation of the right definition is almost never right.
Being a gentleman is one of the most misunderstood things I have ever seen.
This is hard to get by the way, don't get confused.

Hispanic-Cool-Guy · Answer

Masculinity is never toxic, actually its a great thing and blessing to have as a man.  What you're describing is a fool in rage because of a silly game.

Soremain · Answer

I don't understand the term and why it's so popular now. What does bad and childish behavior have to do with masculinity? Why now, when a guy loses his temper, is an asshole, acts like a kid etc, he's referred as "toxicly masculine". What a ridiculous term even.

What about when two women are screaming at each other's face? Are they now toxicly masculine or feminine? And what does toxic femininity look like?

Pamina · Answer

That's like asking if all Coke is Diet Coke or if Coke is never Diet Coke.

AllThatSweetJazz · Answer

I would stipulate that they are expressions that are masculine in nature that can be very toxic, as well as feminine expression of toxicity.

The important note is that this is not "Toxic Masculinity" in the academic feminism conception of it. That particular concept is bullshit. In reality the simple answer is people can be toxic. It's not some uniquely evil and pervasive ill afflicting society, it's just people being different flavors of asshole.

Is toxic masculinity real?

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