The phrase "toxic masculinity" does not exist. So why do feminists attempt to use this phrase in order to describe something that's not real?

[Anonymous]

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[madhatters4]

the phrase does exist. if it didn't exist how'd you just use it? did you make it up?

it was actually conceived by MALE psychologists to talk about ways in which societal constructs of male masculinity actually are harmful to men. like the belief that men must work more difficult jobs, or that if a man isn't married he is somehow a failure, or that men are inherently more violent and thus subject to longer prison sentences, or that men cannot be sexually abused and if they are they are not men... these issues lead to higher rates of suicide, higher rates of depression, etc

you should probably learn what toxic masculinity is before you discuss it

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

I'm 100% sure the phrase "toxic masculinity" exists. See, it's right there to the left.

I'm not gonna put words in your mouth, but I'm guessing what you think toxic masculinity refers to isn't what everyone else thinks it means.

[Asker]

There is no defining reference to this word. No where.

[Asker]

It's totally made up by feminists themselves.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

True, it's one of those terms that isn't scientific language in and of itself, but it does refer to a very well known concept in psychology. You'll find this is true for a lot of terms.

There's also this:

Samuel Veissière, research psychiatrist at McGill (probably the best university in Quebec), in Psychology Today:
The Real Problem with "Toxic Masculinity"
www.psychologytoday.com/.../the-real-problem-toxic-masculinity

Mike C. Parent, research psychologist at the University of Texas, in the journal Psychology of Men and Masculinity:
Social Media Behavior, Toxic Masculinity and Depression
www.researchgate.net/.../324712532_Social_Media_Behavior_Toxic_Masculinity_and_Depression

And here's the first scientific paper to widely use the word "toxic masculinity", published by Terry Kupers at the Wright Institute (in 2005), which trains clinical psychologists at UC Berkeley:
ojp.gov/reviewpanel/pdfs_nov06/written-kupers.pdf

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Now why, do you think, if this is a term invented by Feminists and used nowhere else... would prominent scientific journals be publishing papers on the subject?

[lilaqua]

Yes it does exist but it is badly named, I admit. Toxic masculinity does not mean men or masculinity is toxic but that certain attributes commonly associated with masculinity can be toxic. This actually usually concerns issues that interestingly MRA groups take umbrage with, eg the stereotype that men are incapable parents and are forced to embody certain traits. It can also denote situations in which the pursuit of masculinity in individuals is to the detriment of others or society, such as violence. Women can be guilty of toxic masculinity as well.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

But that would just make it toxic behaviour as toxic femininity would also be a thing. You could summarize by simply saying some people are jerks and move on without the comorbidity of feminist doctrine.

[lilaqua]

@AllThatSweetJazz I don’t think you really understand. Toxic masculinity is something that is artificial, a kind of cluster of traits or identity that is imposed by a power structure. It’s not “simply being a jerk” but an idea that pushes men into behaviour that is unhealthy or detrimental to society. Toxic femininity isn’t labelled as such because women and female traits have never been valued as much by the power system. It’s kind of hard to understand because it’s not simply referring bad behaviour but to the power structures that produce it. For this reason I don’t believe pop feminism should really talk about these issues, since they are pretty nuanced and complex and have a tendency to become overly simplified/misinterpreted when consumed by the general public. It’s valid and important but should realistically be reserved for university level study.

[Highsxhoolstudent15]

Is women plumping up their lips, ass injections/implants, and breast implants considered toxic femininity

[lilaqua]

@Highsxhoolstudent15 not really because those things aren’t inherently bad and are likely driven by male influence.

[Highsxhoolstudent15]

Those are bad... there is a reason for it and it’s not positive. They aren’t just doing it to do it...

[Highsxhoolstudent15]

No, I’d say it’s driven by female influence because women body shame each other more than men.

[HereIbe]

Hrm, gee, maybe the problem isn't the term but the problem is that PEOPLE ARE MORONS.

When I first heart "toxic masculinity", I liked it, because it DISTINGUISHED between expressions of masculinity that were beneficial and those that were poison. Only a truly moronic fool, one who NEVER needs to be heeded and only needs to be mocked and have soda poured on his head, would think that "toxic masculinity" means "masculinity is toxic".

Here, let me illustrate: There are many forms of masculinity, some of which are bad for society. We will call this form "toxic masculinity", to distinguish it from NORMAL or healthy masculinity.

HOW THE FUCK IS THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

[HereIbe]

@AllThatSweetJazz, toxic femininity IS a thing? Have you never come across women who were poisonous in their "feminine" behaviors? Cattiness? Back-biting? Pettiness? Jealousy? Vanity? Yes, toxic femininity is real. So what is your point?

[AllThatSweetJazz]

@HereIbe "expressions of masculinity that were beneficial and those that were poison."
"some of which are bad for society."
Well duh, that's what it's supposed to mean. That's not the issue.
The issue is no one agrees on what is "bad" nor *why* it's bad. Furthermore it doesn't stop them from trying to control these systems which they have no understanding of -- frequently to people's detriment.
How is it hard to understand that you, like everyone else, only heard the interpretation you liked?
Yet even though no one agrees you still fall into the trap of using the terms that feminists couch their theories in, so even if no one understands they're more likely to just nod along.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"Yes, toxic femininity is real. So what is your point? "
I think I made it clear that if it's real then the masculine feminine like is pointless -- if not confusing the issue -- when you really only need toxic behaviour. But the reason that doesn't stick is because the "comorbidity of feminist doctrine" as I referred to before requires specifically toxic masculinity for cohesion.

[nalaa]

"The phrase "toxic masculinity" does not exist" ... well I think by using it and saying that other people use it, you have proven that the phrase does in fact exist

[Asker]

So does the word Pacman. But I've never met the guy..

[Asker]

[nalaa]

Well that's a different question.

[Asker]

Not at all..

[Asker]

They're both make believe.

[PoliceLivesMatter]

Well, they believe it exists based on their experiences and beliefs. Some use it to try to elicit some sort of reaction from a crowd

[ladsin]

I don’t understand the question.

[HereIbe]

That's because you don't speak the Whiny dialect of Butthurt.

[ladsin]

@HereIbe maybe 😂

[Anonymous]

It's just a term that man-hating liberal feminists like to chant.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Because if you use it enough, the mere words can spread faster than the meaning. Then once people have accepted it's usage despite the meaning not being clear, you can then step it, take credit for it's prominence and define it for them and control the narrative.

[Anonymous]

Right because shaming another man, insulting his masculinity for things like choosing to spend time with his kids, or letting his kids play with whatever toys they want, or him being ok with his wife making more money than him, totally isn't toxic. 🤣🤣

Honestly men who encourage toxic masculinity are just insecure in their own masculinity

[Asker]

It's not Toxic masculinity... He's a fucking idiot. Period. Even a female could do such a thing. She could make fun of him in those ways as as well - (for her own personal reasons).

[Opinion Owner]

Toxic masculinity is telling someone they aren't manly enough for dumb ass reasons. Women can support toxic masculinity too.

[Asker]

That's not fucking toxic masculinity. That's your opinion only. If he's a flaming gay then masculine - Period. Here's a ligitimate reference :
mas·cu·line
/ˈmaskyələn/Submit
adjective
1.
having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men, especially strength and aggressiveness.
"he is outstandingly handsome and robust, very masculine"
synonyms: virile, macho, manly, muscular, muscly, strong, strapping, well built, rugged, robust, brawny, heavily built, powerful, red-blooded, vigorous; More
2.
GRAMMAR
of or denoting a gender of nouns and adjectives, conventionally regarded as male.
noun
1.
the male sex or gender.
"the masculine as the norm"

[Opinion Owner]

, I don't think a man's masculinity is damaged because he's gay or because he takes care of his children or because his wife makes more money than him. If you think that makes him less of a man than its your masculinity that's toxic and quite frankly fragile

[Asker]

By "taking care of the children" I assume you mean - stay at home dad while she becomes the sole provider? Yeah he's bitch. Unless he's disabled he's a bitch. If he's a fag he's a bitch. If he's not a protector of the family unit he's a bitch. The only thing "toxic" there is my language. Those are bitches - Period. mas·cu·line
/ˈmaskyələn/Submit
adjective
1.
having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men, especially strength and aggressiveness.
"he is outstandingly handsome and robust, very masculine"
synonyms: virile, macho, manly, muscular, muscly, strong, strapping, well built, rugged, robust, brawny, heavily built, powerful, red-blooded, vigorous; More
2.
GRAMMAR
of or denoting a gender of nouns and adjectives, conventionally regarded as male.
noun
1.
the male sex or gender.
"the masculine as the norm"

[Opinion Owner]

Wow, emotionally injured much? look how fragile you are over a guy and his wife doing something that works best for their family.

[Asker]

Emotions don't play a role in this. Only "definition".

[Asker]

Only a "ligitimate reference".

[Opinion Owner]

Then look up "toxic" honey 😉

Sounds like your masculinity is fragile and guess what, TOXIC

You get in such a tizzy about what you deem "manly" when it doesn't match you, insecure much? Sounds pretty emotional honey. 🤣

[Asker]

Toxic has no relationship to masculinity. Sorry..

[Opinion Owner]

It does when the masculinity is toxic to mem and their relationships with other people

[Asker]

That's just your personal opinion. It has absolutely nothing to do with reality - mas·cu·line
/ˈmaskyələn/Submit
adjective
1.
having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men, especially strength and aggressiveness.
"he is outstandingly handsome and robust, very masculine"
synonyms: virile, macho, manly, muscular, muscly, strong, strapping, well built, rugged, robust, brawny, heavily built, powerful, red-blooded, vigorous; More
2.
GRAMMAR
of or denoting a gender of nouns and adjectives, conventionally regarded as male.
noun
1.
the male sex or gender.
"the masculine as the norm"

[Opinion Owner]

Post a definition all you want but why not post the definition of toxic too? or do you not understand? i know its hard for your he man Neanderthal brain to comprehend since "traditional" men have the focus range of a teaspoon

[Opinion Owner]

Say oh that's just your personal opinion well then your entire questions based off of your personal opinion so shut up and get off your high horse

[Asker]

Toxic has no relation to the definition of masculine. Get it together for once. Gosh..

[Opinion Owner]

You know things can become toxic right? Water is fine sure but drink too much and its toxic. Masculinity can become toxic. Not all masculinity is, but yours sure as hell is.

[BlueCoyote]

@asker
You've already proven WITHIN THIS THREAD about 200 replies ago that you yourself embrace toxic masculinity. Hence it is very real. You're an overemotional snowflake who feels threatened by stay-at-home dads and insults them as "bitch". Textbook definition of "toxic masculinity". Case closed, the jury is in. Keep denying reality if that makes you happy.

[Asker]

Your personal opinion only. Everything can not become toxic. Love is never toxic. Hate is toxic. Happiness is never toxic. Anger could likely become toxic. Peace is never toxic. Strife could likely become toxic. Get a grip.. I have others to communicate with. They also need assistance. Bye 👋

[Opinion Owner]

Meanwhile at the beginning of this you wanted nothing to do with opinions🤣 and when you get down to the wire you back out with a baby cry of "thats your opinion"

[Asker]

Well believe what you'd like. Have a good'un..

[Opinion Owner]

Have fun with your sad lonely life of TOXIC masculinity and your shitty opinion of whats "manly"

[Asker]

Thanks for the personal opinions 😘👸

[Opinion Owner]

Maybe you should've kept your personal opinions to yourself in the first place honey

[BlueCoyote]

@asker
Why don't you go live in Saudi Arabia. They are the same kind of backward, authoritarian reactionaries as yourself. In fact, not only do they belittle and insult people for having different opinions, they even murder them. I think you'd really like it there.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s used that describe men who want to overpower women which applies to too many men.

[HereIbe]

More than that, it's a cluster of behaviors that include mistreating women but go beyond it.

[Guyofallguys2]

Hahaaaa toxic avenger! It does exist, but not as much as it should. Men are all pussies today. Especially Asians.

[HereIbe]

Know how I know you do not get much pussy?

[Guyofallguys2]

Because you're Asian and Asians know everything.

[HereIbe]

No, because you bleat just like all those MGTOW losers bleat.

[Blaisexx]

@guyofallguys2 this guys a douchebag he comes on here to attack people. He's just alittle bitch boy keyboard warrior

[Guyofallguys2]

I can tell.

[SirRexington]

No, toxic masculinity definitely exists, no one is saying it doesn't besides morons.

What we are arguing is that masculinity in of itself is not inherently toxic. There most certainly is such a thing as toxic masculinity, as there is toxic femininity.

[MzAsh]

I don’t think anyone believes masculinity in itself is toxic. Just that some individuals and groups take masculinity to a toxic level which is the truth.

[Asker]

Incorrect toxic femininity is feminism. "Bitch" males are the only ones who can't see it.

[MzAsh]

Toxic masculinity is MRAs, red pill, manosphere, mgtow, pick up artists, etc.

[HereIbe]

@MzAsh, keep preachin! Toxic masculinity is what you say PLUS thug life, Islamofascism, Christofascism, etc.

[MzAsh]

Trad conservatism as well.

[HereIbe]

@MzAsh, what is currently called "conservativism", is not traditional conservativism, which had little to nothing to say on gender roles. Traditional conservativism was concerned with the role of government in private life, and it said, traditionally, government should stay out of private life and be as small as possible.

[Asker]

@MzAsh I don't follow any groups or know much about any of those movements. I took time out to research a bit of information about these names you mentioned. I don't know anyone personally who claims to be involved with these groups. From what I read most are probably just tired of being pushed around and catering to bitches. I do know many feminists on a personal level - Savage as f..

[SirRexington]

@HereIbe no, that was liberalism when it first rose up to the public sphere against conservatism. Now we call it classic liberalism.

But yes, toxic femininity is feminist types and manipulative women. @MzAsh is also correct in her examples.

I don't know why I was thumbed down. Must lf been those morons i was talking about.

[dantetheexplorer]

The fact that you've just used it is evidence that it exists.

[Asker]

I'm only repeating a word that feminists made up. A make believe word in which they tried to coin.

[Taylor_C]

It´s a way to exert power. That phrase allows them to deem everything a man says or does an expression of "toxic masculinity".

[HereIbe]

Bullshit. That's like saying we can't call any sort of behavior immoral, because accusations of immorality can be made against anyone.

[Taylor_C]

That’s how feminazis do it

[vald9inches]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0a5GSasHd4

[Anonymous]

Since women do the things that are considered toxic masculinity just as much as men ya it’s just a way to shame men for being men, it’s trendy to devalue men and masculinity right now

[HereIbe]

Oh, look a little coward crybaby bleats about how the whole world doesn't bow down and kiss his ass.

[llililili]

*toxic maculinity

[HereIbe]

@llililili, yup, that's what he's doing.

[llililili]

He posed a question. You called him a "little coward crybaby". Who's toxic here?

[HereIbe]

@llililili, he didn't pose a question. He used the cheap trick of the "rhetorical question" to PRETEND to pose a question but actually make a statement.
The little coward began with a false assertion. The phrase "toxic masculinity" DOES exist. So he's a liar. But he uses the lie to set the stage for his rhetorical bullshit.

He did not ask an honest question. He just didn't have the guts to flat-out say something. That way, when called on his bullshit, he could whine and pule about how he was "only asking a question".

[llililili]

You're obviously using these terms ("crybaby", "little coward", "whine and pull") in a derogatory manner and that is the definition of toxic masulinity. There's nothing wrong with men showing their emotions through crying or acting cowardly in the face of danger. Why do you associated these behaviors with negative connotations?

As someone who acknowledges the social construct we call "toxic masculinity", you should do your due diligence and look into cognitive bias therapy to purge yourself of the toxicity rooted deep into your subconscious.

[HereIbe]

@llililili, no, calling a liar a liar, a whiner a whiner, and a coward a coward isn't "toxic". It is amazing how defensive you are. One must wonder at your motive.

[Anonymous]

feminists need mental help there is something mentally wrong with them if they need to attack men

[HereIbe]

You need mental help. There is something mentally wrong with you if you have to HIDE behind "anonymous", you little coward.

[Jo1991]

What makes it non existent?

[Asker]

There is no other reference besides what feminists believe to be real in there own deluded narcissistic minds.