Trans people and women's restrooms: a very simple problem?

[Anonymous]

Both these people are trans.

One is a woman, and the other is a man.

There are no gender neutral restrooms.

Who should use the women's restroom?

Kelly (left) should use women's restroom

Buck (right) should use women's restroom

Updates

10 mo

Obviously this would be easier if everything were just gender neutral restrooms. But some people for some reason are very against gender neutral restrooms.

And obviously everyone should be able to leave their house to go shopping or to a sports event or travel etc... and be able to use public restrooms.

[zeitgeist057]

I think people are against gender neutral restrooms because there is still a VERY high incidence of sexual assault on this planet, and they are concerned that a restroom with it's locking areas and the vulnerability of urinating/defecating with your clothing half off is a bad position to be in if someone is intending a sexual assault on you.

I don't think transgendered people are a higher risk for assaulting others sexually, I think they are a LOWER risk for sexually assaulting others.

But the issue isn't really with transgendered people, it's with cis-gendered rapists, and the fear of them taking advantage of gender-neutral laws/bathrooms to commit more violent sexual crimes.

We have gender neutral restrooms on our school campus and I don't know of any issues that have arisen. I have no idea how people feel about the restroom being that way. I am fine with it, but I present as male (identify as nonbinary), am physically larger and more muscular than average, and have no fear of being raped.

[Asker]

Absolutely understand that. There's still a rape culture in most places. But, perhaps even more worrying, only 2% of sexual assaults are committed by strangers. While it still happens, it's not very likely for the average woman. What's most likely is that someone she trusts, a family member, friend, romantic partner... will be the one to take advantage. Unfortunately.

[zeitgeist057]

I'm with you, and that may be true, but it's not the perception. Women think they are going to get raped in their Uber, on a first date, going out to a bar/club, bush-raped while out on a jog, &c. Even if those are in the 2% category, the statistical facts don't change the perception of where the danger lies. And people vote and make policies and other decisions based on their fears.

[zagor]

My college dorms had unisex bathrooms with metal stalls like in public restrooms. No problems. And that was a thousand years ago.

[provokeesmokee]

You can't use such well known trans folks for your gotcha moment, dude, lmao.

Buck Angel is fucking famous.

Personally, I don't give a fuck who uses what washroom. All washrooms should be unisex.

Humans pee and shit, no matter what bits we do or don't have. When I need to use the washroom, the last thing I care about is who else is using it.

I care about whether there's toilet paper more than I care about who's in the stall next to me.

[Asker]

I used famous shitty trans people exactly because I didn't want to put normal or unknown trans people on this site where so much phobia is.

This isn't a gotcha. I want people to know exactly what they're voting for, and do it on purpose.

[Red-Blaze]

The reason for seprating is so pepole feel more safe
When you go to the bathroom you feel exsposed and its very uncomftruble time in public space

And becouse I do belive that is the reason I also think as this pepole look very much like X and the second like Y they should go by apperance, as that will be what I think most feel more comftruble with
I am also putting this as making this idea on the info given

[Red-Blaze]

Thanks for MHO

[OlderAndWiser]

I think we need to have a third restroom available: Men, Women, and In Betweens.

[FunkyMonkee]

You use the room that best fits how you present.
I've played a few gigs in bars where women had to go YESTERDAY and the line to get into the girl's room was so long, she'd never be able to hold it even close to that long so, she'd ask a guy if she could use the gents and he'd make sure it was empty and let her go in to use it and stand outside to make sure no other guys went in until she was done.
I don't see what the big deal is, really!! We ALL have gender neutral bathrooms in hour houses!!

[hbg84]

If the restrooms are single toilet restrooms it doesn't matter which one they use. They can go in alone and lock the door. If its like most public places that are multi toilet/urinal then i don't really know. Given the people you used for examples they both look like their perspective genders. So id say go into whichever restroom that corresponds to their gender ideology. Go in go to a stall lock door do their business flush wash hands and leave.

Most restrooms are designed to fit as many people as possible. Unfortunatly it would cost to much to design buildings with several single stall bathrooms. Especially in sporting venues. Imagine building an arena with 100 single toilet bathrooms. All spread through the building. The cost would be outrageous

[BoobSlayer]

Having public restrooms with gender labels has been in place since long before the existence of trans people. It is not an unfamiliar concept that men and women should uses separate restrooms.

It can be understandable why some people may not want to change the existing status quo. Additionally, some may find safety issues when it comes to allowing trans people, as it can be difficult at times to explain to your children why a man has bazoombas, honkers, melons, chesticles, or shoulder boulders.

The original concept of gendered bathrooms is something that shouldn’t be taken lightly. It involves the comfort levels of many, and some may not feel safe when it comes to chesticles.

[Asker]

Are you sure? Trans people have been around a LONG time. And you know some cis men have boobs too, right? It's not a difficult concept—but you're right it should be more commonly understood that people can have different bodies.

Whether it's cis or trans men or women though, you're going to have some people with boobs in the men's room. There's literally impossible to avoid. Chances are, your kids won't notice and won't care. And if they do ask, again, it's simple: "some men just have boobs. It's not polite to stare" or whatever u wanna say. They're ur kids.

[Miristheiss]

You say "gender neutral" bathrooms.

As a rule if a place just has a bathroom with one stall and the door locks... one person goes in at a time, it is king of moot.

But, of course, some restrooms are full of many stalls and there is no lock. Some of showers. There are locker rooms and changing rooms that are meant to me a women only zone.

Sometimes it is an easy fix, sometimes not.

Do women have the right to women only areas or are men basically allowed to go in any women's space at all?

[Asker]

Personally I think it's fine to have women only spaces, and men's only spaces. Some people think men should be forced to go in women's rooms and women should be forced to go into men's rooms tho. Is very silly in my opinion.

[normalice]

To your update: the reason people are opposed to gender neutral bathrooms is because it would solve the problem. And right wingers discovered that for some reason the Trans discussion is an effective wedge issue. So they have to keep it a problem. They do this with the border and reparations, too.

[Anonymous]

honestly i care more about using a restroom that didn't have some drug addict shooting up or some alcoholic getting drunk and wasted in the restroom when i have to go. i've dealt with that way to many times and it infuriates the hell out of me. this was in both gender restrooms when it happened multiple times. i could care less about what gender uses what restroom as i care more about it's cleanliness no urine shit vomit hair food needles whiskey nip bottles beer bottles laying around and no drug deals going down in a restroom which i've walked in on way to many times and the buyer whining he got jipped a certain amount of coke or crack or heroin or whatever the fuck the addict is using

[EmyyWolf]

These mentally ill creeps need to use the restroom that they were BORNNN to use. BIOLOGICALLY BORN to use.

I’m a biological female, and if I dare see another person in the bathroom where I strip and this person pees standing up in the stall next to mine and I come out and see a male jawline and hear a male voice.

Im gonna feel sexually harassed and that person is gonna end up eating a bullet. 🖕
I don’t care what you imbeciles think of this. I’m not bending over backwards to a minority of re—ards.
To a minority who should be in straightjackets and thrown in a madhouse.🖕

I don’t care 🤷🏻‍♀️ like I said he’s gonna end up eating a bullet. And the cops are gonna be on my side. Because I was basically harassed and followed into a bathroom by a male. Biological Male. 🖕

[Asker]

So you're going to shoot people —probably a cis person since it's so unlikely you'll actually meet a trans person— for having a jawline and a voice you decide is too deep. Literally murder some woman for taking a piss minding her own business. And you think trans people are the problem. Smh

[NYlatefun]

Lol I think it’s obvious who’s the mentality ill person in reality. The joke tells itself!

[Kabluie]

Doesn't matter if you are against, gender neutral restrooms exist. We even elementary schools with gender neutral restrooms, full wall stall privacy, and everyone shares the same sink area.

[Asker]

Oh I'm not against. I think that's rlly the best solution to all this bs. But the people who complain don't want for the same reason they think trans women are dangerous. They think everyone with a penis is a fucking animal and will attack the poor weak women if they ever in room w one. That's most common reason people be against it that I've heard.

[Kabluie]

Another angle that isn't talked about is gender neutral is safer for everyone especially in-school. Sometimes boys and girls sometimes fight their own in the restroom, and it puts a opposite sex teacher that could be near in an awkward situation, or having to find someone else. That is also eliminated.

[Asker]

True! There's lotta benefits especially for kids

[Anonymous]

Conservatives be like: The burly body builder goes in the women's and the daily little flower goes in the dude's, cuz muh biology.

Conservatives get highly scientific when it comes to certain issues, then flat out deny science when it's convenient.

[D_Bone_Steak]

Men use the excuse of being a woman to enter a woman's space and commit a crime. Plenty of examples.

Women using the excuse of being a man doing a crime? anybody? can we find an example of that? I'm sure there is an example out there somewhere.

So with this whole gender-bender fun that society has decided to be a part of... only women are going to suffer the consequences. So women get to lose the safety of going to the bathroom without having their picture taken or being sexually assaulted, just like they lost their ability to win at a sport. I mean they still win... until some sub-par man decides he's a woman now and dominates a bunch of women trying to do a thing.

Ladies... enjoy the bathroom crimes until you fight this degeneracy.

[Asker]

When has a man not committed a crime because a sign said don't come in here?

[D_Bone_Steak]

Every time I didn't go in the women's bathroom because it said women's bathroom. I'm just saying maybe, just maybe... creating women's only spaces has protected women a bit more than just letting it be whatever we "feel" like being at a given day. Kinda like that man that decided he's a woman swimmer... wins thing... then he decided to be a man again. That's right... no longer in the news cycle now that he's decided he's a man again. Women's champion though... round of applause.

Your ancestors were not complete retards... they did it for reasons. There is a reason changing rooms and bathrooms have been separated by gender.

The argument that everything is a social construct stops making sense when it comes to hard-core facts.

[Asker]

Holy shit if the ONLY reason you haven't gone into the women's room and committed a sex crime is because you saw a sign on the door that said women's, I'm not surprised you think men would rush in to commit crimes if the bathrooms were gender neutral. That's insane. I've never met someone who wanted to be a sex criminal but was stopped by a sign on a door. What are you a vampire or something? Lucky for all the women you were about to walk in and commit crimes against that there was that word on the door that magically kept you out.

[D_Bone_Steak]

Funny... I get the sarcasm. But for real it takes away the possibility of doing something wrong.

It's too easy to get in trouble... I got sent to court by a 6th grade teacher for telling my friend named Kat that she needs to be neutered. I didn't know the difference between that and spayed, and the girl I was talking shit too was laughing... it was all the teacher, and she was offended by overhearing it. ... of course, the case got thrown out and the point of my life story is just how easy it is to fuck up.

Like just man to man talk, I wouldn't advise any man to willingly go into a private space with a woman. It's not just about protecting the women. Imagine if my friend Kat decided to work against me... and damn they tried to make her.

[msfuntastic]

@D_Bone_Steak That's literally just a self-report. You have the mentality of a 6th grader still, and you recognize that you're a danger to others. Also, you flipped your parroted right-wing talking point towards yourself the second it was pointed out to you how that little blue signs aren't armor against predators. Now it's all about your own lack of common sense.

[D_Bone_Steak]

@msfuntastic Seriously... what the fuck are you going on about? Are you trying to be a conspiracy theory retard over here? Right wing talking points? Oh gawd, spare me.

[msfuntastic]

You parrot the same illogical stance you've heard repeated in the media about "the danger if allowing men to go passed the blue lady sign", without thinking about how dumb an argument that is. Then you pivot to how you were a 6th grader who got into trouble, like that might be a stronger case for your argument. You just don't have one.

[D_Bone_Steak]

@msfuntastic No... you don't. You haven't said shit. You have no argument at all. All you've done is try to attack me like that helps you for some reason.

[D_Bone_Steak]

@msfuntastic Yeah you're fucking lame. Asker was poking fun at me and it was sort of deserved coming from her... we had friendly back and forth going on. You just come in all on the attack with nothing to say for yourself or your own stance. All you're doing is trying to attack me. You're fucking retarded and I'm calling it out. You literally have nothing to say outside of attacking me.

[msfuntastic]

Lmao, oh it's just a "friendly back and forth" with your friend anonymous... You are a poor deflector. What happened was your original sanctimonious shit-post got owned, you try to worm around that fact and then get owned again. So get mad about it dude, maybe mad enough you'll excrete those brains worms out from your ears. She was poking fun of you, and I'm just plain old making fun of you. What's the difference?

[D_Bone_Steak]

@msfuntastic Still no point. I am the focal point of your existence. Nothing or no point to make outside of me.

[Siri137]

I picked Kelly. Was that the correct answer?

[Asker]

Kelly is the woman, so.

[JohnK123]

What was the question? I didn’t understand it

[Asker]

@JohnK123 the question is what trans person should use the women's restroom? Since people keep making such a big fuss about legislating where trans people can go to the bathroom, and love to claim its all just to protect cis women and yada yada.

[JohnK123]

The one who was female before? But they don’t look trans to me- like they look the same female and male- no change

[BadApple69]

This isn’t really a fair question. You took a guy that looks very much like a woman and a woman that looks more like a guy then most men. What about what’s between their legs? If they had the surgery I’m ok with them using the bathroom that matches their surgery. But when my 11 year old daughter goes into the ladies room I don’t want her to run into the “trans woman” that still has a penis and enjoys using it. What many don’t understand (or don’t care to understand) is that a lot of sex offenders are using the “trans” title to get themselves into bathrooms and locker rooms. This is why many , myself included don’t agree with men in women’s bathrooms. In NJ a trans woman (really a man) was put in the woman’s prison where he then impregnated 2 prisoners. Now is he really a woman? Seems he still had a penis and enjoys using it… that’s not a woman. Sorry… not sorry.

[Asker]

Got any sources for that claim that there's "a lot" of offenders who are trans? Cause there's plenty of studies that say being trans doesn't make you more likely to be a sex offender. I've never seen one that says the opposite.

[BadApple69]

What I said is there are sexual predators that are pretending to be trans women. Here is a link to the story I mentioned.

www.nj.com/.../...oved-from-njs-female-prison.html

Here is a story about a teen boy pretending to be trans and sexually assaulted 2 girls in 2 different schools.

www2.cbn.com/.../va-judge-finds-trans-teen-guilty-sexual-assault-loudoun-county-high-school-girls-bathroom

So to recap I am not saying trans people are sexual predators but sexual predators are claiming to be trans…

If you need more let me know.

[Asker]

Ok, so some cis people pretend to be trans to sexually assault people... What does that have to do with trans people having to use the restroom to pee?

[BadApple69]

Go back to what I said originally. If a man or woman has a penis they need to use the men’s room. This way the predators don’t get the opportunity to rape women! Or are you ok with women being raped? All I want to do is protect women and little girls like my daughter… what are you trying to do?

[Asker]

I don't understand how that will at at fix the problem of cis men pretending to be trans to assaukt women. Just like if he sneaks in even tho the rules say u have to be a woman, why would he not still sneak in even if the rule was you can't have a dick? You don't have to show your genitals to anyone to use a public restroom, and you obviously shouldn't have to. So what does that rule even do, since it doesn't make it any harder for cis men to sneak in.

[BadApple69]

If a man wants to be a woman let him cut off his dick… that shows commitment. Otherwise men are claiming to be women to beat women in women’s sports and to get into women’s locker rooms and to get into women’s bathrooms. Don’t you care about women? I do!! And what’s going on is disgraceful. You see the problem as being with “cis” men. I see the problem as letting men in where they don’t belong!

[Asker]

Bro u just said, it's not trans women it's men pretending to be trans to attack women. I'm saying, if u really believe that, then wtf do you think saying u can't have a dick is gonna do? They already not women. They go into women's room. What stop them from go in if they have dicks? It doesn't fit the problem. I'm saying if u care about women u should want a solution that actually fixes the problem. Not one that just makes it more likely for trans women to get assaulted in public restrooms especially if they can't afford surgery yet, and does nothing to stop cis women from getting assaulted either.

[Anonymous]

"Obviously this would be easier if everything were just gender neutral restrooms."

No, it might be easier for a miniscule percentage of people like yourself, but it's not a problem for the vast majority of people, and never has been.

Gender neutral restrooms would create a problem for a much, much, much large percentage of people. Why is it that you think everyone else should change for you? That seems really selfish.

[Asker]

The main reasons gender neutral would make things easier are: 1, space. No one line being longer than the other, everyone overall gets to use the restroom faster at large or busy events. 2, groups. No more family members or kids having to split up at large events to use restrooms and No more parents having to send medium age kids into restroom alone when they don't happen to be the same gender. Also No more only the womens bathroom having a baby changing station. And 3, safety. The more people in a restroom, the less likely anything bad will happen bc there's witnesses. And when everyone can use it instead of just half of people, more likely it's not empty u won't be alone in case someone actually does come in with bad reason.

None of those reasons apply just to trans people.

[Opinion Owner]

No girl should be forced to use a restroom with men in it, and no parent of a girl should always have to worry about sending their daughter to a public restroom without an escort.

The "problems" you mentioned have existed forever and people have easily worked around them, no big deal. The vast majority of people would much rather deal with those issues than the new ones that would be created for the majority of people if men's and women's restrooms were merged to meet the needs of a tiny fraction of the population.

Stop being selfish.

[Asker]

What new problem would be created by merging them that wouldn't solve itself?

[Opinion Owner]

If you were actually a female you wouldn't have to ask that question.

[Asker]

I know plenty of "females" who don't see a problem with gender neutral restrooms either. Any slight increase in danger (cause let's be honest people who were gonna do illegal shit would do it no matter if they're "allowed" in the restroom or not) is counteracted by the increase in witnesses which decreases chance to commit crimes like that.

[Opinion Owner]

Well at least you had the honesty to put females in quotes.

You've never been the parent of a girl so you will likely never understand why what you just said there is complete bullshit.

[Asker]

I have a baby girl almost 1 year old now. How many daughters do u have? I have a baby sister who been harassed in her school bathroom by other fucking children who been taught to hate everyone different than them by their parents, & by people like u. Have u even ever seen a gender neutral restroom? Stfu u don't know shit.

[Quigly]

A third single user private bathroom with a lock on the door would solve the problem. All these mega corporations making millions and wanting to support the agenda should have no problem Investing in a third single user bathroom in all their locations. Curiously, they don't.

[Asker]

Well most of the time just men and women works for everyone, including trans people. While many places do have a separate bathroom like that for handicap people, it would be nice to have a gender neutral option for those who aren't men or women, but yeah not many places do that. Although some do. Like the white house for example.

[Quigly]

A gender neutral along side gender segregated bathroom. As long as people have their choice and privacy is respected. Places like Target sure are vocal about supporting the LGBTQ and yet won't spend a dime on a third bathroom. Just tells me the agenda is to invade privacy and peoples peace of mind.

[Asker]

Tells me that they only care about "the agenda" until it starts to actually cost them something. Many companies only show support to try and attract attention and gain money.

[John_Doesnt]

Gender neutral is fine, but there are way too many examples of "trans"-women who are clearly men. You're showing trans people who don't looks like freaks. It's the freaks we don't want in either bathroom.

[Asker]

Well there are "freaks" who need to pee, no matter if you want there to be or not. Cis and trans people. Some people don't look "normal" and I don't think you want any laws saying everyone has to dress and look "normal" anyway. If you think making restrooms gender neutral instead would work best, that's fine. That would solve the problem.

[John_Doesnt]

freaks can pee somewhere else. And there are plenty of "cis" freaks too that I don't want to share a bathroom with. Stop using the word "cis" and just use the word normal gender.

[Asker]

Where else? If there's a place for anyone to pee in public that's still a public restroom. Whether it's labeled for men or women or "freaks," tho I doubt anyone would go for making that an actual public restroom label.

And cis doesn't mean normal it means same, as in same gender as they were assigned at birth. Where here ur using normal to mean just that they look normal to u. So they aren't really interchangeable in this convo.

[John_Doesnt]

they can go home to pee, the place where they made themselves look like a freak. If you're the same gender you were assigned at birth that's called being normal.

[Asker]

It's not humane to force anyone to have to stay near their house to be able to use restroom. That limits fucking everything they can do—couldn't even work a job under that rule. May as well just admit u want them all to die and would support laws that lead to their deaths.

[John_Doesnt]

it's not humane to share a bathroom with someone who looks like a monster.

[Asker]

Looks can't kill u. If that guy who tried to turn himself into an alien walked into the men's room and used a urinal while ur also using a different urinal, u both wash ur hands and leave. Nobody dies. Nobody is hurt. The only problem is u may feel a little uncomfortable bc u not seem someone who looks like him b4. But him looking different isn't attacking u. It's not hurting u at all. Ur fucking sick if u think people should have their lives restricted and threatened bc u don't like how they look.

[John_Doesnt]

okay so you're perfectly okay with a KKK member in their hood and a Nazi in their uniform going to the bathroom with you. They're not hurting anybody just making you feel uncomfortable.

[Asker]

What does nazis and kkk have to do with what they look like? They're still nazi and kk even if they don't have uniform on. No matter what they look like they are still those people, they still believe and did harmful things.

But yeah again, I don't care who the fuck they are, everyone should be able to use public restroom in public. If ur a criminal n ur in prison for life, well ur not in public. U can't use restroom simply bc u can't go outside to where the restroom is. & yeah kkk and nazis should are criminals, should be imprisoned. But with kkk its possible they won't get life sentence, and when they get out they can go in public again, they should still be allowed to use public restroom. They're PUBLIC restrooms. For everyone. Going to the bathroom isn't a crime.

[John_Doesnt]

if you make the decision to look like a freak then you can go home to the bathroom. nobody forced them to look like that

[Asker]

Wow. Eugenicist much

[John_Doesnt]

nobody forced them to dress up that way. If they want to look like that they can go home for the bathroom.

[Asker]

Is it how they dress or is it how they look? Be specific.

[Anonymous]

Is this really what keeps people awake at night?

[CoolCatMar1]

Say no more

[Asker]

Apparently. Sure would be nice if trans people could just use the restrooms like everyone else instead of having to worry about getting assaulted by violent morons for needing to take a leak.

[monorprise]

When your in a compromising position you like to know there is at least that level of security behind that flimsy bathroom divisor.
So yes it does matter and these concerns are not made up, girls and women are getting assaulted by men allowed in their bathrooms.

Its easy to do too, a woman is soo much weaker than a man if he is that close he need merely push her into a stall and assault her right then and there. Confident he won't be seen and stopped by anyone of comparable strength.

Both because it is a women's room with few men, and because its a stall with walls designed to keep you from being seen.

As such the bathroom by design is an ideal place to carry out such an assault

[Asker]

@monorprise
Only 2% of sexual assaults are by strangers. Women are most in danger around their family, friends, and coworkers. Not around strangers in public restrooms. If a man wants to assault a woman in a public restroom, a sign on the door won't stop him.

[Siri137]

Yes, and that should worry all of us.

[PBandJ_Nerd]

They're both passing so they should be able to use the restroom of their gender.

[PBandJ_Nerd]

Also, I'm for gender neutral bathrooms. I think it makes things more convenient, especially if the place only has one stall restrooms.

[annabananna]

I’d be ok with unisex restrooms that are actually private and dont have gaping cracks in the door.

[annabananna]

With no gender neutral restroom I’d just go in the one I looked like and keep to myself.

[JohnK123]

My female friends always complains about urinals in unisex restrooms lol and port a potty’s it’s funny

[Dargil]

If you were born with an innie use the girls restroom. If you are born with an outie the men's restroom.

[provokeesmokee]

Damn, didn't know bellybuttons affected so much.

Guess I should use the men's room next time.

[Asker]

I've never heard anyone argue for belly buttons determining which restroom you should use but okay..

[Siri137]

What if you're like me and don't have a belly button?