Why do some people claim they can "always tell" if someone is trans, when they obviously can't?

[Anonymous]

Today someone actually said to my trans husband that they can always tell who is trans. But they said it about our cis friend who just is a woman with a strong jawline. Like, they said "she's trans, I can always tell" about a cis woman, to a trans man. Clocking both people wrong, to their faces.

Yet even when our friend told them she's not trans, they didn't believe her. And when my husband told them he was trans, they also didn't believe him! Just flat out refused to admit they can't really "always tell." It made them look even stupider.

[Kaneki05]

Most of the time it's easy to tell. It's rare and only really for people who spent tons of money on transitioning who can pass. But if someone say's always tell they are an idiot, because when they can pass due to all that they really don't have any clear signs until you get them naked.

[Asker]

How would you know it's most of the time if the other times you can't tell though? It doesn't always take surgery or a lot of money to look like your gender with your clothes on. Yes, some people it does, but not all people.

[Kaneki05]

Cause biologically we aren't made to shift at least not yet so unless your born with androgynous features or even starting off as intersex it's not going to be easy to shift and been born like this is just rarer. Therefore most won't be able to successfully or they could but would need a lot more money which most people don't have therefore again rarer.

And then there is the law of averages. Most people aren't going to be smart that's not how it works. Most people aren't going to be great artists. Most people aren't going to be hot. Most people aren't going to transition to pass.

[Asker]

There is a lot more overlap in appearances than you may think. Some people look androgynous and dress very gendered, or wear makeup all the time, so you never notice they're androgynous. Some people their race helps them pass because people are racist and/or think "they all look the same" so they gender them based on clothes, not physical features. And some people are intersex yeah, almost 2% of the population, most of whom are cis. So that also makes it harder to tell because some cis people can have secondary sex characteristics of the opposite sex.

You're right that it often takes a lot of effort, and some people don't care about passing or don't have access to Healthcare they'd need to pass. But I still think on average it's closer to like 35% of trans people who can pass if they want to. Maybe the majority can't now, but there is still significant amount who can. Not some tiny 5%.

[Anonymous]

People can dedinitely tell but some people are getting paranoid. People can be mistakenly identified as trans because of it but rarely trans people will be mistakenly identified as not trans.

[Asker]

Some trans people have been on hormones and had all their surgery done DECADES ago. There's trans people who are grandparents. You really think anyone's out here staring down the random old lady at the bus stop trying to figure out if her tits are fake? As long as you look and dress generally within social norms of your gender, people will almost always just assume you're that gender. My husband hasn't been called she or ma'am by anyone in over a year now, and he literally just is skinny and white with short hair. Everyone assumes he's a cis man unless he specifically tells them or for some reason they have to see his ID. People can't tell, because they don't care. The only reason they care is if you break some gender norm.

[Opinion Owner]

You don't need figuring it out. In the great majority of cases you can tell right away without analyzing. There are some transgendered people that you wouldn't notice but still, most of the time you can. Humans can tell sex apart, that's how we are and there's nothing wrong with it. I don't get why people get so mad because of it.

[Asker]

I'm glad you at least agree it's not always "definitely tell", even if you do still think it's "great majority." There's a lot more overlap in men and women physical appearance than you think. Some women have thicker necks, some men have thinner waists, etc. And because people who aren't as "average gender" appearance are still cis, someone being trans and not very matching the average gender appearance can often fly under the radar too. Not always, I do agree that the majority if you're looking you could tell, and a significant minority (those who are just starting out or who don't care about passing) you could tell even without looking for it. But a significant amount as well you'd have to either be paying very close attention or they'd have to tell you for you to know. Most of the time, people either don't expect to see a trans person so assume they're just kinda odd looking cis person, or they are paranoid like you say and think anyone not within their decided gender average look is trans (which is way more often than not, other cis people).

[Asker]

I'm not angry about it, to be honest I'm just frustrated. It seems obvious to me that people who claim to always be able to tell are always full of shit. But they can cherry pick a few examples of trans people who are brand new to it and just figuring themselves out, or people who choose to not pass for personal reason, and say "look at these fucking idiots they think we can't tell! They're delusional! All trans people look exactly like this and want to get naked in front of your kids." And that's bad for trans people who get attacked by those who listen to that person, and bad for cis people who also get attacked by those who listen to that person because they didn't look stereotypical of their gender enough.

[OmcSketch1]

Stupid people say stupid things. It’s how they’re wired.

[Anonymous]

Cis is such a stupid word.

Biological men produce natural testosterone from their testes. transmen (biological females) don’t have this.

Biological women produce natural estrogen from their ovaries.
Trans women (who are biological males) take estrogen tablets because they don’t have ovaries and can’t produce that hormone naturally. They probably going to be taking these pills for the rest of their lives

[Asker]

If you don't like the Latin prefixes cis (this side) and trans (the other side), I could use the Greek prefixes homo (same) and hetero (different) instead? In which case, yes, most homogender men do naturally produce testosterone, but not all. Testosterone supplements were not invented for heterogender men, they were invented for homogender men who also had testosterone deficiency. It doesn't make them lesser men just because they need supplements. And same with homogender women, some need estrogen supplements, just like heterogender women do. It doesn't make them lesser women than any other homogender women.

[Opinion Owner]

Women with health problems are still biological women if the have ovaries

Trans women are biological men

[Asker]

Some homogender women also don't have ovaries. It's unfortunate, but true. Some were born without, some had to have them removed later. Does this make those homogender women lesser than other homogender women who do have ovaries?

[Opinion Owner]

If a person born in a girl body doesn’t have ovaries but still has other female parts like XX chromosomes, a uterus, clitiros or born without a penis than she is still a female

Just like a car with a flat tire is still a car

[Asker]

So if a woman is born without xx chromosomes she's not a woman, even if she has ovaries? Or a woman born with something between a clitorus and penis, they are not a woman even if the doctor marks them female at birth? Etc. There are as many intersex women as there are trans women. There are many other woman who have other medical conditions or things where they don't fit your strict definitions. Should they have their birth certificates changed to male because you don't think they're really women? After all a car, when it doesn't have certain parts, you scrap it. Are you saying women can only be women if they don't lose certain parts, and otherwise they should lose their label of woman and be forced to transition into a man?

[Opinion Owner]

If a person is born with no female sex chromosomes or no female body parts then she is likely not a woman biologically.

If a person is born with female body parts but maybe missing one or one is working properly she is still female.
Just like deaf peoples ears are still ears even though they don’t work properly.

If a person gets surgery to get their uterus removed they still probably have other things that makes them biologically a woman such as XX chromosomes

[Asker]

So how many of those parts would someone need for you to consider them a woman? Just one? Someone who has 2 x chromosomes you would consider a woman, even if that's the only thing they have that matches your "woman body part" list?

[jshm2]

He was just trying to spare your feelings.

[Asker]

He wasn't even talking to or about me? He tried to insult my friend saying she looked "too ugly to be a real woman" when she told him she was cis. So I don't think he cared about her feelings. And he called my husband an Impulsive liar and drama maker when he told him he was trans. So I don't think he cared about his feelings. I wasn't even involved in the conversation I was busy with the baby.

[gorydetails]

Lol, we can always tell.

[Asker]

Obviously not. Maybe if everyone you met you froze time and examined every inch of their body and took DNA tests and whatnot, then sure. You could "always tell." But just by being a regular human seeing another human at the grocery store or a bar, no, you can't always tell. You're more likely to assume some random cis person is trans just because they don't look stereotypical enough. Literally that's what happens when people are convinced their perception is infallible and they're paranoid about trans people existing in the world around them..

[gorydetails]

Lol bullshit

[Asker]

Multiple cis women have been murdered this year because strangers didn't think they looked "feminine" enough and assumed they were trans. Im not bullshitting. My initial example was funny because the stranger was just an idiot, but this happens seriously too. "We can always tell" is what's really bullshit.

[gorydetails]

Yes you are bullshitting. Send the links.

[Asker]

Thankfully i was wrong. It was 1 person murdered, the other beat up for 40 minutes but fortunately survived. Both old ladies.

www.thepinknews.com/.../
www.thepinknews.com/.../