Will every single American need personal experience with gun violence to get real about it?

[OddBeMe]

Because we really don’t have time for every right wing moron too see it first hand.

Yes

No

[Anonymous]

oh, I believe we are very "real" about it. We've seen what a government does when it disarms the people. We've seen what happens when lefty-ran cities refuse to prosecute and lock up the violent criminals. we've seen police standing by and watching as violent mobs of dumbass "Trump-haters" riot in the streets and destroy homes and businesses. Believe me, we have no intention of disarming ourselves to let those people go unchecked, no matter how much whining you do about it.

We have a people problem, not a gun problem. There are more guns that people in this country, and only a small percent of them are ever used in a crime. If guns were the problem, we'd know.

By the way, most of us still remember when you lefty dumbnuts tried to say "supporting Trump is a mental illness" and y'all tried to use red flag laws to disarm people for simply supporting the man for president. We're not buying your bullshit anymore.

If you want a serious discussion about mental health and guns, you need to stop trying shit like saying anyone who disagrees with your political beliefs is mentally ill. Until that point, kindly stfu. Thank you, and peace out.

[goaded]

You have a people with guns problem.

[OddBeMe]

“You seen what happens when a government disarms the people”…. please elaborate.

The only instance I know of is Australia and they haven’t had a mass shooting since Port Arhur.

[YAsQuen]

there are now more guns in australia then then

[OddBeMe]

@YAsQuen and lots of regs. Same for Europe. Swiss have tons of guns and tons of regs.

[goaded]

@YAsQuen " there are now more guns in australia then then " There are also a lot more people, over 40% more.

[OddBeMe]

@goaded good point.

[YAsQuen]

the gun estimate is from 2017. Not a bad point tho. Still weird if u look into it. Guns dont seem to cause massacres.

[OddBeMe]

@YAsQuen compare the number of guns in America to other countries then recompute your last statement.

More guns=more gun deaths. Simple.

[YAsQuen]

is anything ever that simple?

[goaded]

@YAsQuen ISTR that guns have to stay put, at the shooting range, or on the farm, so anyone who wants to do both has to have two guns, but I could be wrong. What I'm sure of is that there are regulations in place to reduce the chances of dangerous people getting hold of guns.

You're right, of course, that guns don't cause massacres (which makes it a rather glib dismissal), but people with guns do. The easier it is to get a gun, the more likely someone who wants to shoot lots of people (or even just one person, even to shoot themselves) will be able to do it. That leads to more deaths.

There are interesting interviews (with the same person) here:
www.npr.org/.../gunfight-author-ryan-busse
www.propublica.org/.../ryan-busse-explains-roots-of-us-gun-violence

"You know, I tell the story that 15, 20 years ago, the industry named guns like the Smith & Wesson 629 or the Remington 870 because you had [industry] attorneys that knew that even the names of guns could be important. They could encourage people to do irresponsible things. And so you’d never wanted to even name things that might encourage bad things to happen. Now we have a gun called the Wilson Urban Super Sniper. I mean, what are you supposed to do with that? We now have a gun called the Ultimate Arms Warmonger. What are you supposed to do with that? We now have an AR-15 company called Rooftop Arms, as in when you don’t get what you want, you vote from the rooftops. And what happened in Highland Park? A kid got up and killed people from a rooftop. You see the old self-imposed responsibility; those old norms of behavior have been just completely trashed."

[YAsQuen]

@goaded lets assume taking the guns will help mass shootings what about gun crime?
Well take the guns from law abiding cizizens and the crims will keep em. Lets assume that will stop and reduce mass shootings what happens to crims with guns,

We can MAYBE talk about that stuff once we SEAL the mexican border. Anything before that is ridicolous.

I dont buy that all mass shootings happen naturally. I think there are sneaky things going on. What was the gun concentration in the 50s and 60s. I think we gotta make sure people dont get isolated and drugged up in society first

And lastly how many people actually die in mass shootings.

Suicide rates in Asian countries are higher
London knife crime. crims gonna crim

[goaded]

@YAsQuen First of all, nobody's saying "taking [all] the guns"; that's not the case in any country, including Australia or Japan. Some people have a genuine need for one, it's just "I'm scared of all the people around me with guns" is not a good reason.

Gun crime in general goes down. Well, unless you count the people you arrest for being illegally in posession of a firearm. That suddenly becomes something you can check for without being accused of violating their "God-given" rights in Walmart.

The Mexican border has nothing at all to do with this; more firearms move from north to south than the other way around.

Nobody said "all mass shootings happen naturally", they happen when people who want to kill lots of people (and usually themselves) have access to the tools they need to do that easily.

You know you can look up the answer to questions? This only goes back to 1972, but it looks pretty stable. https://archive.ph/ajVzZ What's changed is that there is a larger proportion being sold as weapons intended to kill people and they're being sold by scaring people.

And, no, suicide rates are not higher in Asian countries. en.wikipedia.org/.../List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

Finally, I'll take knife crime over gun crime any day, because it's quite hard to accidenally stab an innocent bystander, or even intentionally stab the person you want to.

[exitseven]

It is said that a conservative is just a liberal that has been mugged. There is a lot of truth about that. The house next door was robbed while I was home recovering from major surgery. I was in no shape to fight off the bad guys. That is when I decided I needed to het some guns for protection. I bought a tactical shotgun and a.357 magnum revolver. I went to a week long training course in gun safety. Advanced techniques and tactics shotgun. This course was designed for law enforcement but it gave me a lot to work towards. I go to a range once or twice a month and I feel safer knowing that I could defend my home against intruderx.

[goaded]

Was anyone hurt next door? Were they even home when they were robbed? (If not, it was a burglary, not a robbery.) Have you considered better doors, locks and windows? They work even when you're not home, and nobody's going to kill themselves or anyone else with them.

[exitseven]

@goaded nobody was home. they stole a bunch of stuff. What if the broke into my house and they thought nobody was home and i was recovering from surgery and unable to fight or even run away. I could be killed or worse. I have gotten pretty proficient with he handgun. It sounds bad but I do feel safer in my home.

[goaded]

You could have been, but the likelihood is that if you'd just shouted, they'd have run away. What could you possibly have had in your house that someone would risk a life sentence for? You're afraid, that's all. (By the way, someone tried to break into our neighbour's house; they couldn't get in.)

[exitseven]

@goaded I live in a pretty isolated place. people could use a sledgehammer to break down the door and nobody would hear it. My neighbor had these people in thir driveway and they broke in through a back window. I was sitting in my family room watching TV and I did not see or hear anything. The next day the cops show up at my back door and asked if I saw anything. I saw nothing and the cops told me that there were others in the area. as well.

[goaded]

You wouldn't hear anything if they broke in to your house if you weren't there, either, so what use would your guns do, except give them something else to steal?

Do you think the burglars would be armed? Why? I'm almost certain no burglar here would be, at least not with a gun. Sentences get doubled, they could be arrested for just being in possession of one, etc.

[exitseven]

@goaded Why take the chance. I keep the shotgun locked in a safe. Most of the time i keep the handgun in there too. If they broke in while I was here I want to be armed. It is better to have a gun and not use it than to need a gun and not have it.

[OddBeMe]

@exitseven well stats it’s more likely to end in suicide or accidental shooting. But I’m fine with your shotgun case. I’m more interested in making guns harder to get for idiots and so should you.

[Anonymous]

You will never be able to stop it. When people had strong friendships and relationships and families there was no gun violence, even though many people had guns. My grandfather said people were allowed to have hunting guns in their cars in the parking lot at school. No one every brought one in and shot everyone.

[OddBeMe]

Yes we have “idolized” and politicized guns to almost orgasmic proportions. I wouldn’t be surprised if most gun owners masturbate over them.

But that’s fine. As long as we have stringent checks to make sure you didn’t just get out of a nut house like this Maine shooter.

[Anonymous]

I remember when I was little a man broke into our home and my mother locked us in the bedroom with her. As the the guy tried to kick the door fown my mother shot six times at the door and he stopped, police arrived an hour later

[Juxtapose]

Odd would want you to call some sort of counselor and have them discover your corpses rather than the criminal get shot.

[Opinion Owner]

@Juxtapose seems to be the case.

[exitseven]

I hope somebody pinned a medal on your mom. She was a hero

[Opinion Owner]

@exitseven no we had to move because of the man's family. He had been convicted of rape b4 and linked to missing kids

[exitseven]

Probably let go by a democrat DA.

[OddBeMe]

And your thoughts on guys like this having access to AR 15s?

[exitseven]

If her mother did not have a gun they might have been killed , instead there was a good outcome.

[Opinion Owner]

The guy had a gun. The situation was only equalised by my mother's gun

[Juxtapose]

He acts like people wouldn't just get that shit on the black market anyway lol. Go ahead and make guns underground, there's four guns for every human being Odd. You may as well try prohibition again while you're at it.

[OddBeMe]

And I get that. But we can either make guns more accessible for men like that, or not.

[OddBeMe]

And crickets.

[Juxtapose]

No, if you had your way that woman would not even have access to a pistol while the people indulging in the black market can get pretty much whatever their money can buy.

[Juxtapose]

Your political side even wants to disarm police officers and replace them with counselors. The Democrats are fucking joke these days and that's why even moderate liberals are flocking to Republicans for reasonability.

[Opinion Owner]

@Juxtapose where I live they defunded the police and crime is basically legal, I'm moving back to my home town before Christmas.

[Juxtapose]

You do realize that one of the contentions of the revolution was Britain not allowing people in the USA to have the latest military gear?

Technically our arms should not be restricted at all. There's nothing in the second amendment that says the destructiveness of arms limits if you can use it or not. As a matter of fact it's pretty against restricting people's right to bear arms.

And no, the courts have already ruled you have never needed to be part of any organization for your rights to bear arms to activate.

[Juxtapose]

Oh and by the way I used to live in Maine and we do not require any sort of license to open or concealed carry. It's the same in Ohio and it's how it should be throughout the country.

[Billlewis]

@Juxtapose Of course they don't realize that -- they're preoccupied with protecting their popularity among their friends.

[Juxtapose]

Yeah, it's a bunch of virtue signaling nonsense that's only going to open us up to tyranny if they succeed.

[goaded]

As opposed to the good tyranny that's refusing to accept the results of elections, backed up by a minority who are terrorists with guns (Oath Keepers, anyone?). The new Speaker of the House is an election denier.

[Billlewis]

@goaded You got that canned response from NBC news, right... lol

[goaded]

@Billlewis OMG, no, I can think for myself. Yours is the canned response.

“You know the allegations about these voting machines, some of them being rigged with this software by Dominion, there’s a lot of merit to that,” Mr. Johnson said. (Those are the same lies that caused Fox News to pay Dominion nearly $800 million.)

Trump is still denying the results of the 2020 election, the Republican representatives ignored the results of their internal votes until the minority (and Trump) got their way.

[Juxtapose]

It's okay to question the veracity of an election. America needs much tighter voting restrictions to help eliminate doubt in the future.

[OddBeMe]

@Juxtapose IF there’s actual evidence of fraud. There isn’t. And the minor fraud we’ve found were all of right wingers trying desperately to re-elect Trump. And they were caught.

[goaded]

It's not OK to lie through your teeth about an election in order to create that doubt in the system. That's why Fox News had to pay out nearly $800 million, and Rudy Giuilani had his law licence suspended and owes a quarter million in fees to two women he defamed. It's also why Trump and others are on trial right now, and four people have already pleaded guilty for their parts in the scheme to steal the election in Georgia.

[Juxtapose]

Last time I checked this question was about guns and you guys are going on some fake news bullshit about these Banana Republic indictments

[Juxtapose]

I really don't give a damn what these courts have to say any more than I give a damn about what these courts had to say about Julian Assange or Edward Snowden.

[OddBeMe]

@Juxtapose So your only legal standard is your gut. Not the experts. Explains a lot.

[goaded]

You were talking about tyranny, while ignoring that democracy is the best tool humanity has ever come up with the fight it. That's why dictators stop holding elections as soon as they can, and why they try to poison people's minds against it.

You'll deny the facts, and the trials, while putting out anti-democratic propaganda. You're part of the problem. This is the "more speech" that's supposed to be the only answer to "bad speech".

[Juxtapose]

If you guys think the deep state doesn't have their fingers in every single election and you really think all the votes are counted fairly? I don't know what to tell you to counter that naivete.

[Juxtapose]

And the evidence has been actively hidden and discredited. Look at what happened to Julian Assange and all the fake bullshit brought up against him.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded no, you're part of the problem because you still believe in that fake Russia bullshit that was debunked by the Mueller report.

"No collusion."

This is the more speech that is the answer to your bad speech.

[goaded]

The problem is that people like you, Bill Barr, and Trump are all lying about what's in the Mueller report. All you have to do is read it.

[OddBeMe]

@Juxtapose So what’s all those Trumpites in prison for?

[Juxtapose]

Rogue doj homie.

[Juxtapose]

This department of justice is Banana Republic levels of ridiculous. You guys do know how many times Al Capone was indicted, right?

[goaded]

All the Trumpites put away under Mueller were put away (and pardoned or had their sentences commuted for protecting Trump) during the Trump administration. Are you saying Trump's as guilty as Al Capone?

[OddBeMe]

I love when right wingers say a DA or an election is corrupt when it’s against them. But totally cool when it’s for them.

I could say the actual Corrupt Scotus should invalidate the Roe decision.

[Joshydavid25]

As someone who loved in the the hoods of Chicago with some of the most strict gun laws... That doesn't help.. Police can't always be there and you wanna protect yourself.. You have that right.. Have you ever been robbed at gunpoint and thought "man, that guy shouldn't have had that gun"? Probably not.. Experiencing gun violence doesn't make you not want guns, it makes you want o learn to use them yourself to protect yourself..

[goaded]

Thousands of guns get stolen every year in the US, thousands more get "lost". Dozens of them are taken in robberies, which means the victim was armed at the time. If you're not awash in the damn things they're harder for everyone to get hold of.

www.statista.com/.../

[Joshydavid25]

@goaded Exactly which is why banning them in the U. S is silly.. Too many ways for criminals to get their hands on some and it doesn't help the average citizen.. Not to mention it gives the government too much power.. So if they ever wanna pull some totalitarian B. S on us have don't have any way to defend ourselves..

[goaded]

The government did try to "some totalitarian B. S" on you; that was Jan 6th. Currently, one Republican senator is holding up hundreds of military promotions, which may be just because he's a jackass, but it might also be so that a future president Trump can fill those positions with people loyal to him. Republicans around the country are preparing to overturn elections in their states (Texas has a law that allows them to cancel elections in any county with over 3 million population; there is only one county in Texas with more than 3 million population, and it votes Democrat). Ohio is purging voters. If you live in Ohio, did you know your voter registration might have been cancelled? ↗

[Joshydavid25]

@goaded Oh please with the partisan stuff.. Jan 6th was the opposite of totalitarian.. Lmao.. If anything it would have been a revolution, since it was directed at the government.. You'll believe that Republicans wanna overturn elections but won't believe it was possible for Trump?

[goaded]

Jan 6 was a sitting president attempting to overturn the results of a democratic election he lost. There should be nothing partisan about protecting the democratic process, every government official swears an oath to uphold it.

[Joshydavid25]

@goaded He didn't though... He said make your voices peacefully heard... Not to mention it started even before he was done with his speech.. And hardly any destruction was done.. They got back to business in a few hours.. Worst attempt at an insurrection ever.. But also bec that election was shady as ever.. Just so many things were wrong with it..

[goaded]

But he did. Jan 6 was simply the final act in a months long coup attempt. They always intended to lie about the count on the day of the election. They made up lies and defamed people, putting them at serious risk, while bringing spurious court cases. The fraudulently forged documents claiming to be electoral voters so that Trump's Republican allies in Congress could use them to muddy the waters and hand the presidency to Trump. Trump brought those people to DC and told them to fight. He knew they had weapons, and he knew they weren't intending to use them on him. He sent them to the Capitol anyway.

And you still believe their lies.

[Joshydavid25]

@goaded I see we now believe in conspiracy theories.. Lmao.. It was a well orchestrated effort to get Trump out of Office.. If he really did all of that he would still be in office.. It's the other way around.. Trump was one of the least non corrupt politician.. Not that he was perfect or without corruption..

[goaded]

Like I said, you still believe their lies. Conspiracy theories don't make it into criminal court.

[Joshydavid25]

@goaded I believe evidence whether from the Democrats or the Republicans..

[goaded]

OK, so you've read the Jan 6 committee report, the transcripts of their hearings, the multiple indictments against Trump and the people who conspired to overturn the results of the 2020 election in multiple states, the admission of multiple Trump lawyers that they lied and defamed, the guilty pleas of people who were involved in the fake electors scheme, and you still think Trump didn't send an armed mob to the Capitol to try and steal the presidency (with the aid of Republican congresspeople).

[goaded]

Oh, and what's the counter "evidence"? Trump covered his ass by saying "peacefully" in a speech full of lies and talk of fighting? Anything else?

[OddBeMe]

And just a few miles south east or west is a gun store you can walk into. So it only works if everyone’s doing it.

[Joshydavid25]

@goaded Oh, yeah of course more lies by people that were embarrassed that he became President.. Since he still eligible to run for President again, none of it worked. Just baseless accusations..

[Joshydavid25]

Which everyone won't be doing it is the point.. Why limit people who will actually follow the laws..

[goaded]

@Joshydavid25 You're only fooling yourself, you know.

[Joshydavid25]

@goaded I fooled myself when I sided with the left... Now I'm free.. 😎👉..

[goaded]

Just those on the right. Other people have empathy.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/0rR9IaXH1M0https://www.youtube.com/embed/a9UFyNy-rw4

[OddBeMe]

Weird how decent you are here… lol

[goaded]

I see the lawmaker in question is actually a Democrat. Disappointing, but at least he's come to the right conclusion.

Democratic Rep. Jared Golden of Lewiston, Maine, right?

""I have opposed efforts to ban deadly weapons of war like the assault rifle used to carry out this crime," Golden said. "The time has now come for me to take responsibility for this failure, which is why I now call on the United States Congress to ban assault rifles like the one used by the sick perpetrator of this mass killing in my hometown of Lewiston, Maine."

"For the good of my community, I will work with any colleague to get this done in the time that I have left in Congress," he continued. "To the people of Lewiston, my constituents throughout the Second District, to the families who lost loved ones, and to those who have been harmed, I ask for forgiveness and support as I seek to put an end to these terrible shootings.""

[Peter_Penetrator]

Yes. If you happen to survive being a victim of gun violence, you will quickly learn to accept that concealing a firearm on your person is a must.


Don’t tell me that when an unarmed citizen is staring down the wrong end of a gun that they wish they had one to.

[Sevenpointfive]

gun violence happens. should everyone have a gun? NO! but they let anyone into the military so some psychos get through. should we be asked the question of mental health when purchasing a gun? NO! having mental health does not mean you are a psycho.

but when that war comes when every single American needs a gun to get that personal experience. they'll wish they had it or at least the right to get one without a bunch of laws discriminating against them.

[ShadezMcgee]

And what of those that had personal experience and felt that their getting real about it was advocating to keep the right to keep guns and laws from restricting them?

[OddBeMe]

That’s fine. I’m really just talking about people finally seeing through their politics to logic.

As long as we have streets flooded with guns it’s logical for mentally stable citizens tk have them too. That wasn’t this Main shooter, who spent time in an asylum weeks before the shooting,

There should be a law that people get mental health tests before getting guns,

[ShadezMcgee]

You and I have had this discussion with the mental health before. What classifies as a denial of fire arms purchase for mental health issues? What is the mental illness that will be the red tape no go? Is it all of them? Some of them? Which ones? Also, if we were to let mental health therapists take the reigns to determine one's state, how can we be sure we will have fair assessments and not objective bias on the therapists end because of the nature of the assessment for wanting a gun? Because that will be a problem too.

[Billlewis]

Don't worry -- we'll be a Communist country long before anything like that happens.

[OddBeMe]

We’re becoming the oligarchic Russia. And not by accident.

[nevooo]

26 years and I've never even seen a firearm outside of on a cop. i would feel safer having one in my home though, the world is a crazy place today.

[ItsALongWayToTheTop]

We need to defund the police and get more left wing morons to be criminal counselors.

[Drewtate]

Had a break in a year back. Thankfully I had my AR15 locked and loaded.

[rigmarole]

Do what you feel school shooter. We have no problem with putting you in the ground.

[rigmarole]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67QxbFjmqcQ

[RedInnocent68]

The problem with the self-protection argument is even when some do have experience with gun violence, it makes them want them even more.

[DarkWinterNights]

Some of us experienced traumatic violence in a way that lead us to the opposite conclusion.

[YAsQuen]

they are letting those guys run rampant on purpose idiot

[OddBeMe]

What guys? And who? Is this some deep state anti gun conspiracy?

You know it’d be 10x better to work with safety advocates than talk crazy.

[YAsQuen]

every single one was on pills and had 2 psychatrists. they always mentioned they was gonna do stuff. And the fbi knows them everytime

[OddBeMe]

Ok. So there are red flags. You saying these guys shouldn’t be allowed to buy guns. I agree!

[YAsQuen]

im saying the fbi shoud do their job. What is creating a society where parts become isolated/addicted and hopeless is a whole other question

[YAsQuen]

Did u know that they sometimes asked students to bring guns into school so that they could train shooting drills in the 50s. Mentally sane people dont do that kinda stuff. Why are there so many more insane people now when compared to then?

[OddBeMe]

Who asked students to bring guns to school? Got evidence?

Mental health has become better at diagnosing so of course there are more identified. And law enforcement LITERALLY have laws telling them NOT to keep gun records. What are they supposed to do?

[gorydetails]

That dude is an idiot.

[exitseven]

He needs to get robbed at gunpoint