Which group is a bigger threat to democracy and society in the US?

Question

abc3643 · Accepted Answer

I won't say "the right wing", but I will say "the MAGA wing".

This essay was published in The New York Times yesterday...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/17/opinion/giuliani-trial-maga-trump.html

Behold, MAGA Man
Dec. 17, 2023
By David French
Opinion Columnist

On Dec. 13, an election worker named Ruby Freeman took the stand in a Washington, D. C., courtroom and told the story of how her world was turned upside down by Rudy Giuliani. Three Decembers earlier, Giuliani shared a routine surveillance video of Ms. Freeman and her daughter, Shaye Moss, doing the routine yet vital work of counting 2020 presidential ballots at State Farm Arena in Atlanta.

But Giuliani’s description of the video was anything but routine. He falsely claimed that the footage was evidence of vote fraud. In that moment, everything changed for Freeman. As she said in her testimony, “Giuliani just messed me up, you know.” That’s a polite way of describing the horrors that followed. She faced an avalanche of threats, racist attacks and harassment at work and home. She had to leave her house — and then, after law enforcement officials found her name on a death list, the house of the friend she’d been staying with. Even now she’s afraid to walk in public without a mask.

The purpose of Freeman’s courtroom testimony was simple: to describe in detail how Giuliani’s lies had profoundly damaged her life. And make no mistake, Giuliani lied. He admitted that his statements were false back in July, and in August the court entered a default judgment against him, holding him liable for those falsehoods. The only question left for the jury was the amount of the damages. And Friday, the jury gave its answer: Giuliani now owes Freeman and Moss $148 million to compensate them for his cruel and obvious lies.

The verdict is against Giuliani alone. But make no mistake, MAGA was on trial in the courtroom — its methods, its morality and the means it uses to escape the consequences of its dreadful acts. That’s because Rudy Giuliani isn’t truly Rudy Giuliani any longer. In his long descent from a post-9/11 American hero to a mocked, derided and embattled criminal defendant (he has also been indicted in Fani Willis’s sprawling Georgia case), he became something else entirely. He became a MAGA Man.

I’m reminded of Sigourney Weaver’s famous line in “Ghostbusters”: “There is no Dana, only Zuul.” There is no Giuliani now, only Donald Trump.

There are many MAGA Men and MAGA Women in the modern G. O. P. To meet one is, in significant respects, to meet them all. The names roll off the tongue. Mark Meadows, Jim Jordan, Kari Lake, Roger Stone, Marjorie Taylor Greene, John Eastman — the list could go on and on. And while they all have different stories before Trump, they share variations of the same story after Trump. Giuliani’s story, MAGA’s story, is theirs as well.

That’s what was most significant about his trial. It wasn’t the damage award, as substantial as it was. It’s the story, the tale that lays bare what a MAGA Man is.

The first thing you need to know about a MAGA Man like Giuliani is that he’s dishonest. Truthfulness is incompatible with Trumpism. Trump is a liar, and he demands fealty to his lies. So Giuliani’s task, as Trump’s lawyer, was to lie on his behalf, and lie he did. He even repeated his lies about Freeman and Moss — the same lies to which he’d already confessed — outside the courthouse during his trial.

A MAGA Man such as Giuliani supplements his lies with rage. To watch him pushing Trump’s election lies was to watch a man become unglued with anger. The rage merged with the lie. The rage helped make the lie stick. Why would a man like Giuliani, former prosecutor and hero mayor, be so angry if he hadn’t discovered true injustice? MAGA Men and Women are very good at using their credibility from the past to cover their lies in the present.

Amid the lies and rage, however, a MAGA Man like Giuliani also finds religion. But not in the way you might expect. No, MAGA Man is not sorry for what he’s done. Instead, he feels biblically persecuted. Freeman and Moss aren’t the real victims; he is. Moreover, he also knows that the base is religious and likes to hear its politicians talk about God.

Giuliani learned that lesson well. So during the trial, he compared himself to Christians in the Colosseum, battling the lions like the martyrs of old. He’s not alone in this, of course. Trump shared an image of Jesus sitting by his side as he stood trial. Stone got so religious that he claimed to see supernatural sights, including, he said, a “demonic portal” that’s “swirling like a cauldron” about the Biden White House.

One of the persistent debates in American life centers on how strictly we should judge the sins of our national past. Were those people who owned slaves or broke faith with Native Americans or passed the Chinese Exclusion Act merely products of their time? MAGA Men and MAGA Women will not have that excuse. They know there is a different way. Before Trump, many of them — whatever their flaws — lived very different lives. And few of them more so than Giuliani.

His trial and verdict write another page in the volume of truth that tells the real story of MAGA America. Every voter should know exactly who Trump is and what his movement is like. They should know what happened to Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss. We should remember their names. But if a MAGA Man remembers, he does not care. Whoever he once was is gone. He serves a new master now.

=================

By the way, Giuliani says after Friday's jury award of $148 million to these two women, he shot his mouth off again defaming these two women. So, what did they do? Sue him again today.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/18/us/politics/georgia-election-workers-sue-giuliani.html

Georgia Election Workers Sue Giuliani Again
Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss asked a federal judge to bar Rudolph Giuliani from continuing to make unfounded accusations that they cheated Donald Trump out of votes in the 2020 election.

BoopBoopBeep · Accepted Answer

I don't know too many people opposed to immigrants. If we're talking illegal immigrants, that changes things. Usually considered poor manners to show up to someone's house and immediately break their rules.

Both "wings" of our political system are currently a threat as well, however.

Sirenboobzilla · Accepted Answer

The 2 major political parties (Democrat and Republican) are an equal threat to the United States. The division between the 2 in both the government body and the citizens is astounding.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand." President Abraham Lincoln

Illegal immigration is a problem; there's no denying that. The drain on the taxpayers is ever so widely felt. However the methods imposed by our 2 parties (neither of which being able to agree on how to best handle the situation) are less than ideal.

I vote that our own government is more of a threat to the country than illegal immigration. Solve that 2 party problem and then we can work on other stuff more efficiently.

wolfcat87 · Accepted Answer

There are far more bad, hateful, and ignorant extremists in the right wing than there are bad immigrants... Their policies damage us in the world. Left wing extremists are damaging as well. More so to the economy, babies, and our personal wallets though.

That being said, there are lots of good people who are right, left, and immigrant.

GoodGuyBreakingBad · Answer

Immigrants

NathanDavis · Answer

at this point I am not really sure which is more damaging...

politicians over 60, who are way too experienced to manipulate and damage and no longer care...

or politicians under 40, who are way too inexperienced and manipulating all these colateral damage they create without a care

jshm2 · Answer

The US is a nation of fucking immigrants. So it's a false dichotomy you have there.

Anonymous · Answer

The right wing. It's already too late. Trump is going to win, and still, like crazy, and the whole world will burn to the ground. No, just US society, the world is done. First, there will be no winter, and then after that, it will be finished. But as long as it's.

RealMarek · Answer

If you’re a globalist neoliberal it’s the right wing, if you’re a localist, someone in favor of benefits like universal healthcare, or a cultural conservative it’s immigration.

molonski2 · Answer

The Left are the biggest threat in the USA.

normalice · Answer

The right is openly expressing their distaste, and desire to be rid, of democracy.

slatyb · Answer

Trump talks openly about suspending the Constitution and the rule of law. Immigrants come here because we have a Constitution.

ProbablyClueless · Answer

I'd say it was probably the political party in Florida that just tried to cancel every name but Joe Biden off of the primary ballot sheet...

So... whoever the Globalist shithead uniparty people are in this list of options.

DextroShade · Answer

The millions of illegal parasites that Biden keeps letting in to squat in our streets and take money from the taxpayers in the form of handouts are a much bigger threat than the people trying to enforce our border and keep them out.

OddBeMe · Answer

Wow, surprised it’s this close.  Immigrants aren’t a threat. If anything it’s threatening our economy to not have more.

Anonymous · Answer

Ilegal Immigrants. We can't have the whole third world empty into one country. Look how sanctuary cities struggle.

Anonymous · Answer

Immigration without assimilation isn't a good long run strategy for a successful country.

MikeFrench · Answer

According to the left wing FBI, it's the terrorists crossing Joe's open border.

findacure4wokeness · Answer

The left is importing it's voters in order to work around democracy.

Still-alive · Answer

Just remember folks the right wants to KILL you! immigrants just wanna live. there's your difference.

Kingofkings1992 · Answer

Look at the condition the US and the world as a whole was in under Trump. Now look at it under Biden. Let that sink in for a minute, then proceed to hang your head in shame….

DeeDeeDeVour · Answer

"Illegal aliens" being given undeserved entitlements by politicians desperate for more votes.

exitseven · Answer

I assume you are referring to ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS they are just one of the threats the Biden administration has unleashed on Americans.

CaptainSmartass · Answer

The commies. Simples...

pethouse · Answer

Our biggest threat is our political parties

Anonymous · Answer

Illegal immigrants.

Kelly6 · Answer

Left wing

Anonymous · Answer

Illegal  immigrants

Which group is a bigger threat to democracy and society in the US?

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