Did you read that Trump Is Disqualified From the 2024 Ballot, Colorado Supreme Court Rules?

[msc545]

It’s the first court to find that the disqualification clause of the 14th Amendment applies to Trump, in addition to affirming that he engaged in insurrection.

[abc3643]

I think that will be ruled unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court.

I wrote this in the NYT comments on this story...

==========

This will be overturned.

Mind you, I am no Trump-lover and I loathe the idea that he could be President again.

However, the 14th Amendment also calls for due process. Thus, Trump needs to have his day in court and be convicted of a crime that would be considered as falling under the 14th Amendment Section 3.

Furthermore, that crime would have to be a Federal crime since insurrection against the United States can ONLY be a Federal crime and not a state crime. Thus, for someone to be ineligible under Section 3, they'd have to be convicted of an associated Federal crime in a Federal court, likely the Federal District Court for the District of Columbia.

Also, though, this can't stand for another reason. If it stands, that the judicial branch can block someone from holding office under the pretenses of Section 3 without due process, then they can pretty much block whoever they want from holding office. You can imagine how this would be abused and just help entrench political divisiveness in this country. Really, this would be, in a sense, a new form of gerrymandering or voter disenfranchisement to help keep a political party in power.

[goaded]

A lower court found that he'd engaged in insurrection, but refused to rule whether he should be allowed on the ballot. Both sides appealed, the state supreme court decided that it disqualified Trump from being on the ballot. SCOTUS may or may not take up the appeal (states run the elections, but it is a constitutional question).

All that IS the due process.

SCOTUS is unlikely to reverse the finding of the lower courts that Trump engaged in insurrection. It might reverse the ruling, but that's not guaranteed.

"The court found by clear and convincing evidence that President Trump engaged in insurrection as those terms are used in Section Three. "
www.courts.state.co.us/.../23SA300.pdf

[abc3643]

@goaded
Let me add something that I originally did not think of when I wrote the above in the NYT.

The final sentence in Amendment XIV Section 3 is:
"But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

This implies that Congress recognizes when a person has the "disability' (inability to hold office due to having "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies [of the US]".

What this also implies is that Congress knows when someone DOESN'T have the disability.

So, how is Congress to determine this?
Suppose for a person that 25 states say the disability exists and 25 states say it does not.
What's the truth?
How is Congress to act?

Since there can be a disparity among the states over this, that sort of thing is generally unacceptable to the SCOTUS. For this level of decision, there has to be a Federal level decision. And, for that, the due process would have to be in the Federal judicial system. That would clearly give Congress the knowledge to know if the disability exists in the first place.

===
Here's how I wrote this elsewhere in this question:
(more)

[abc3643]

Something I did not mention earlier because I did not think of it, but, in Section 3, it has this also:

"But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

Logically, this presupposes that a person who has such a disability (the inability to run for office because of Section 3) is recognized by CONGRESS as such. That is, it is Congress's determination that the disability may be removed, so, implicitly, they'd also have to know definitively that the person is under the disability to begin with. Some states can't just say "Oh, yeah, he's no good under Section 3" and yet some other states say "Nah, he's good to go." That's unacceptable. There needs to be uniformity on this and that requires a national level decision on that which means that this must be determined at the Federal level.

I can't stand Trump and he's the worst thing that's happened to this country in 150 years. But he should have the ability to run unless convicted in a Federal court of Federal crime which would trigger Section 3 disqualification.

[goaded]

Page 7 of the Colorado Supreme Court ruling:
"Congress does not need to pass implementing legislation for Section
Three’s disqualification provision to attach, and Section Three is, in that
sense, self-executing."

[abc3643]

@goaded That's all well and good but the Colorado Supreme Court is not the US Supreme Court.
That's where this will be headed - and soon.

Then, again, it may be that SCOTUS lets Colorado's decision remain. That would be interesting and, frankly, I don't like it because of what I wrote earlier - I could see this being used as a tool to prevent opposition party candidates from being on the ballot. This is why I believe this sort of thing NEEDS to be determined at the Federal level and with Federal crimes involved.

[goaded]

I think you're crying wolf, because the possibility of courts finding that a candidate engaged in an insurrection without there being any evidence, let alone that standing on appeal, is zero. In this case, there's massive amounts of evidence (with more and more coming out as time goes by, just today more evidence came out that the march on the Capitol was planned and that the planners lied about their intentions to the authorities).

The initial case's final order is here: www.courts.state.co.us/.../...%20Final%20Order.pdf and it describes the due process, the reasoning and arguments made.

"298. Consequently, the Court finds that Petitioners have established that
Trump engaged in an insurrection on January 6, 2021 through incitement, and that the
First Amendment does not protect Trump’s speech."

"304. The Court holds that it is unpersuaded that the drafters intended to
include the highest office in the Country in the catchall phrase “office. . . under the
United States.”"

www.nytimes.com/.../...6-capitol-rally-report.html
"Jan. 6 Rally Organizers Lied About Plan to March to the Capitol, Report Finds"

[abc3643]

@goaded I think the root issue is this:

Can a state determine if a person has "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the [US], or given aid or comfort to the enemies [of the US]"?

There are all sort of "subquestions" associated with several different parts of the US Constitution.

It'll be interesting either way how this is resolved.

[goaded]

I agree. There seems to be no doubt that states can exclude candidates that are prohibited from standing (note who they quote, below!), and states' rights would suggest that their courts and officials should make that determination.

I'd bet $1 SCOTUS will decline to take up the appeal. I think taking it up would require them to either declare that there was no insurrection (which is problematic, given the number of people already convicted of seditious conspiracy and lesser related crimes), or that Trump should be excluded from the ballot in every state.

"As then-Judge Gorsuch recognized in Hassan, it is “a state’s legitimate
interest in protecting the integrity and practical functioning of the political
process” that “permits it to exclude from the ballot candidates who are
constitutionally prohibited from assuming office.” 495 F. App’x at 948"
www.courts.state.co.us/.../23SA300.pdf

[smne35]

It's all BS why are the Democrats so afraid of Trump being reelected, I mean they're spending all their time your tax dollars going after Trump, bribes threats, why ask this to keep one man that clearly the people across this nation want in office, why are they going all out what are they afraid of, why is no one asking this question, I'll tell you this about both political parties, one don't give a damn shit this country or it's well being, the other had got intentions but afraid to stand and speak up let it's voice be heard add the other part knows this and what will trigger them to silence Democrats are no good for this country but it didn't matter both parties or all 3 of them have an obligation to to work together for betterment of if this country on our behalf they act like royalty these politicians, not all are deviant corrupt twisted, I'll end it here but it saddens me deeply to see the state of this country today, I don't think no one in this government have a clue what their doing there is such wide spread corruption on all levels, it will all surface soon,

[msc545]

It probably has something to do with the fact that he tried to overturn a completely legal election in his own favor. I like how Trumpers. Always keep forgetting that fact.

[Pterodon]

America doesn’t care

[msc545]

I think you're going to be very surprised with the election results when they show that many people in America care and perhaps enough people to just simply defeat Trump once again in the next election. Let's wait and see.

[Pterodon]

He hasn’t even been convicted

[msc545]

@snme35 of course people are afraid of Trump. It makes absolute sense to be afraid of a mentally ill criminal who incited a major riot in the capital of our nation. The fact that the legal system has not been able to effectively cope with him so far is also a reason to be worried and afraid of him. He is a threat to our democracy and a threat to our country. He belongs in a psychiatric hospital and he needs to be treated for his disorder.

[Pterodon]

Americans only care about their money and how far it goes which is drastically less under biden

[msc545]

@Pterodon most of us have eyes and ears and we are able to think about the things we have seen and heard. Trump has committed many acts that the legal system will ultimately deem to be criminal. He has been convicted contrary to your beliefs of civil fraud already. It's just going to get worse for him. Not better. I think the most tragic thing about Trump is that he truly is mentally ill as far as I can tell and he should have received treatment many years ago which would have avoided all this hopefully. As it is, I don't think he ever received any mental health treatment of any kind and that is tragic. I feel sorry for him that he was not treated better. It's too late now for anything like that to happen of course.

[msc545]

@Pterodon You are not wrong. When you say that Americans only care about money. I completely agree with this statement. However, I think the powers that be have determined that Trump is a threat to the complicated system that they have established here in the US and they want him gone for that reason only. In essence, he is bad for business and he is so chaotic that he represents a threat to their ability to keep accumulating ridiculous sums of money.

[Pterodon]

That’s your opinion. The reality is the world was at peace and people were better off under Trump

[msc545]

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you in my last response. I think you should read it again. I also won't disagree with you and this response to your response in that. Yeah, the world was a more peaceful place. However, I don't think that this was because of anything Trump did or didn't do. I think things are chaotic now. Not because of what Biden or the democrats have done or not done but because things have progressed and not in a good way and there is not anything that anyone could have done to stop it.

[Pterodon]

I’m convinced Biden has caused chaos from being a weakling

[smne35]

Dude that's what I'm saying I'm not for these damn Democrats they screwed up everything, everything they accused Trump of they're doing, even Trump was in office all the terrorist went and it there explosive in storage and went on vacation, soon as this one that's there now came in they went back to business as usual, and the world is a ghetto, kinda

[Pterodon]

Not kinda

[IrishStewed]

Funny that Trump has to follow the law while Biden breaks immigration laws.

Washington CNN —
Although the Supreme Court struck down President Joe Biden’s signature student loan forgiveness program in late June, his administration has found ways to cancel more than $48 billion in debt since then.

The cancellations have come through existing federal student loan forgiveness programs, which are limited to specific categories of borrowers, such as public-sector workers, people defrauded by for-profit colleges, and borrowers who have paid for at least 20 years.

These programs are separate from the rejected forgiveness plan, which would have canceled about $430 billion of the $1.6 trillion of outstanding federal student loan debt all at one time.

The Biden administration has been granting student loan forgiveness through these existing programs on a rolling basis since coming into office and has discharged a total of $127 billion for nearly 3.6 million people to date.

[msc545]

False equivalence once again. Do people ever learn?

[IrishStewed]

You keep talking about how Trump is bad, but you ignore the fact that Biden is no better. Why is that? And I'm sure you know that a lot of things Biden does wrong is kept secret from the press.

[msc545]

Biden is not a mentally ill criminal. Trump is.

[Melodylovelive]

What’s this have to do with the question?

[msc545]

@Melodylovelive Nothing but the original poster went off on a tangent about student loan forgiveness for some reason.

[Melodylovelive]

@msc545 not you them

[IrishStewed]

What do you call Alzheimer's? A common cold? And if he is breaking rules of the Constitution and the Supreme Court, he IS a criminal. Why do you have such a love affair with Biden anyway? Half the government is corrupt, and Congress is for themselves, not us.

[msc545]

You are not qualified to diagnose Dementia, and he has not broken any rules that I know of.

[IrishStewed]

@msc545 News flash, you are the OP ( the thread maker), not me. 😏

[msc545]

Yes, you're right. I'm the OP relative to this entire thread. However, in regard to this sub thread, you and I are both responding to a guy who made an issue out of the student loan forgiveness controversy for some reason. Read upward to understand what I'm saying.

[Melodylovelive]

@irishstewed according to one of your post your Irish not American and you lived in Ireland and came here, so I’m curious what about America made you come here? And I’m assuming that you’re a citizen if you are this invested in American politics you must have the right to vote here. So what made you get your citizenship here also? You also are clearly very invested in student loans so I’m going to also assume that you went to college here, so what college did you go to and why did you choose college here versus Ireland and how much in student loans do you owe and how has that debt affected your life?

[msc545]

I may not like what Irishstew had to say and I may not like his politics but he is entitled to his opinion. Cheap sniping like this is completely inappropriate.

[Melodylovelive]

@msc545 how is asking legitimate question about themselves cheap sniping?

[msc545]

@Melodylovelive It is entirely off-topic and irrelevant to the subject of this question that I posted. You would not have asked these things if you agreed with his politics or if you had a reasonable rebuttal to his arguments.

What you did was a cheap attempt at digression, and I am glad he didn't respond to it. Don't ever try this again on any of my questions.

[England4eva]

Could someone please sum this up shortly.. I'm British and have no idea of American politics. But I'd like to know what he's done wrong and why he can't enter the race?

[msc545]

He fomented an insurrection at our Capitol Jan 6 because he lost the last Presidential election.

[England4eva]

Is that when loads of his supporters broke into that building?

[msc545]

Yes, our Capitol is that building.

[England4eva]

Did he do it? Is there an actual legal ground for this?

[msc545]

I think at this point that is quite debatable and the courts are considering it. He certainly seemed to have something to do with it, although if that rose to the level of encouraging it, that is unclear at this point.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

Thanks for sharing this. Just wondering how many Red States will follow.

[monorprise]

As illegitimate and irresponsible as the 14th amendment itself is, the 7 democrats who compose the current Colorado Supreme court were not at all interested in terms of that law when they made this ruling.

As they seem to have completely ignore the qualifications for what constitutes an 'insurrection' as well as the notable fact that the same Article 3 listing notably omits the office of president while listing every other, state and federal position of note.

There are a few reasons for such omission most notably being from their perspective the impossibility of the crime from the federal executive, and from other peoples perspective the fact that their federal executive did in fact commit it in waging war against the states regardless of reason. As previously defined in Article 3 section 3, clause 1:
"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them"

Who did that?
Ooo The Chief executive of the federal goverment Abraham Lincoln in his bloody (killing off 2%+ of the population) war to suppress the same inalienable right that formed the country in 1776.

Yes the founders had a good reason to so define treason. The fanatical imperial idiots who wrote the 14th were wise to omit that.

As it happens Trump waged no war, nor did his UNARMED supporter following his instructions to PEACEFULLY protest.

But of course democrats in this country couldn't care less about the written law or what happened only who is before them.

[RealMarek]

I did. Things are playing out as I expected and it is a gift to the right. If needed, the RNC will bar Trump from other primaries or will hijack the convention (they’ve done it before) to force Haley onto the November ballot. If that happens, the only conservatives who don’t boycott the election will be some weird boomer cons and increasingly rare Christian zionists. As far as I’m concerned from the perspective of the real right this would solve many problems. First, the fake-opposition RNC would be crushed. Second, Trump would be out of the way, making room for more competent and authentic opposition. Third, the globalist neoliberal elites (may they be cleared out) would be unleashed and the DNC, as the clear sole party in power, would “own” the consequences of their extreme policies. They will be at the peak of their power but an obnoxious, arrogant elite that persecutes large swaths of the population, is repeatedly losing wars, and is losing reserve currency status for the currency that gives it all of its power will be cleared out eventually.

[Oliverlogan263]

Wow, that's a big deal that the Colorado Supreme Court ruled that way about Trump. I don't know too many specifics about the 14th Amendment stuff, but it must have something to do with him trying to overturn the 2020 election results. That whole January 6th insurrection at the Capitol was crazy. I'm not super into politics, but it seems reasonable that the courts would say he can't run again after pulling that stunt. I know Trump still has a lot of supporters too though. It'll be interesting to see if other states or the federal government agree with this ruling, or if Trump tries to fight it. Either way, it's showing that actions have consequences, even for a former president. This will definitely be an ongoing legal battle though.

[andreasderjuengere]

We live in a century that relies on entertainment.

Trump is a good show. The question to me: is it a comedy, or a tragedy show?

I didn't read the ''news'' you refer to; but it looks as if more entertainment is coming our way.

Meanwhile: my Cannabis plants grow (legally, here) the same way as they did before :)

It's not a secret that my love isn't with America - at all.

But I do wish for the individual people there (meaning: those who deserve it) that another ''Storm on the Bastille'' will not be part of the show.

[pickles77]

How is that good news? they have been falsely accusing him consistently even before he became president. Remember the Russian collusion? Yeah that was false. And never mind if you like trump or not. Do you want to live in a country that is unjust and corrupt? Where the vote is controlled because candidates are disqualified with slander? The accusations are not true, they never have been true. He has been to Court how many times? And he is still innocent. How many have even watched the unedited footage of the “insurrection”? nothing is their. If you support this you support having your liberty stripped from you and if they take him out of the race I’m sure there will be a real insurrection.

[sawno]

Alright, so now the only valid outcome that will not cause massive issues for the US is him winning anyway. Otherwise nobody will except the election outcome and nobody should consider the win from anyone else legitimate. In 2020 it was a falsified outcome, now its just plainly an unfair election. This is one of the most anti-democratic moves I have seen in a while, so I pray for the US this ends well.

[lightbulb27]

No, I don't pay that much attention... do you have a life;)? That's good and sets quite a precident for the future... if you buck the system, you will get destroyed. It's really bad for some other people, won't get into that.

I like Vivek better anyways, go Vivek!

He and Gavin N can duke it out. Oh heck, probably be Niki... the chosen one of the super rich...

[BadApple69]

Yea the Supreme Court will throw this right out. Sorry for the leftist that are cheering right now but 4 judges can determine someone is guilty of something without that person having a trial and being proven of the crime. In this case Trump has not been proven of causing an insurrection nor can they prove such a thing. An insurrection without guns? A insurrection when he told people to peacefully let your voices be heard? There was no insurrection. All leftist media BS.

[RasmusAiken]

This will quickly be thrown out by SCOTUS. The net effect will be to fire up Trumps supporters in terms of fundraising and votes. Recall that for all his charges, insurrection has not been among them. Colorado supremes have based their decision on a made-up premise.

I continue to wish that each party would find another candidate for frontrunner.

[Dargil]

The US Supreme Court will overturn it. No court has ever decided Trump fomented an insurrection. The biased FBI found no evidence. This is part of the swamp panic against Trump and maybe a distraction protecting the Biden crime family. SCOTUS overturning this will create a precedent against other states.

[Jersey2]

They say it will do two things, 1) destabilize democracy un the US, and 2) turbocharge Trump as it will show he is the victim of election tampering.

Colorado wouldn’t turn for Trump anyway and if they did there will be many more states to take their place. Trump must be winning for all this to be happening since if he wasn’t a threat they would pull out all the stops on him.

[Jersey2]

They wouldn’t pull out all the stops

[888theGreat]

Doesn't surprise me at all. Democrats hate the Constitution and America. They hate Republics and a free market economy. They don't like individual rights. They believe Gov't should make decisions for them. That all religions should be banned. Believe Environment comes before people. Frogs before Businesses or pipelines. They want centralized Gov;t and no state rights.

[slatyb]

The Supreme Court ruling will be interesting.

[syncheart]

Honestly I get tired of hearing about the Trump controversies. I don't even care which side you are on politically. I'm just sick of hearing the controversies.

[shortster]

It actually doesn't. It says elector of President or Vice President; but not actually President or Vice President. Also Jan 6th wasn't an insurrection, at best it was a riot. Nevermind Trump didn't participate nor did he encourage it. Colorado is playing a dangerous game; especially if Trump wins the nomination. If this decision holds or is replicated by other states we could be in a civil war within a year from now.

[Surely]

So, what is next for the Democrats. Assassination, shoot down Trump Force One, confinement to his bedroom?
My understanding is. He hasn’t been convicted of the crime necessary to do what they have done. If that is true. Then the Colorado judges don’t know the law!

[normalice]

Cool but meaningless. He wasn't going to win Colorado anyway. Until red states or swing states do it, he'll just use it for fake victimhood to fund raise and, if he does win the EC, as an excuse for losing the popular vote.

[snowboarder720]

Best thing to ever happen. I hope other states follow.

[Pterodon]

It will be overturned by the SCOTUS. What I think is hilarious is how afraid the democrats are of him. You should be afraid of Nikki Haley too. She’s beating Biden in head to head polls also. Speaking of polls even hairyass is polling higher than Biden lol

[Papabubbles]

Republicans should be afraid of Nikki. If she gets the nomination, Trumps ego will go 3rd party