Why is there so much debate over Confederate and Nazi origins?

[OddBeMe]

Seems clear by historical and current political evidence they’re both right wing causes and have right wing origins.

Not that left wingers don’t have our skeletons. Stalinism was fcking worldwide catastrophe. Despite its despotic and tyrannical crimes, it had far left origins. Even today lefty idiot “Marxists”, who don’t even know what it means, try to use sickle and hammer flags like morons.

there's something that connects these two pics….

[Anonymous]

Perhaps because like most other things our cultural leaders say about their enemies, it is politically convenient half-truth if not outright lie.

Like it or not the German National Socialist Workers party (NAZI) were openly and transparently left-wing socialist.

The fact that like every other historic of foreign political movement they also had a few positions the same dishonest cultural leader choose associate with conservatives does not make them conservative.

As for the confederacy, this is also true to a slightly lesser extend mainly due to the vast historic distance and the same politically convene ideology dishonest of cultural leaders.

[OddBeMe]

They were openly left wing huh? Despite murdering Social Democrats and Communists whilst making deals with Hindenburgs right wing industrialist party.

YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT you're TALKING ABOUT.

[Opinion Owner]

Nothing more dangerous to a leftist @oddbeme than anther leftist who wants to do something else with the same power and source of support. You only dislike libertarians/conservatives because they don't want the power to exist in the first place. Once it does you start fighting how its used and why its not working as you like.

[OddBeMe]

I actually don’t dislike them. But I prefer they don’t go the way of Trump and make up wild shit like “Nazis were left wing”. I need the opposition to be smart and truthful so we get a prosperous govt.

[Sevenpointfive]

nazi's weren't any wing. why does a movement have to be a 0 or a 1 with you? that's a leftist idea. conservatives accept 2's and 3's. your "opposition" is your own ideas.

[Opinion Owner]

I am of course @oddbeme by your dislike referring to your desire that they remain out of power

[OddBeMe]

@Sevenpointfive Oh I only care because right wingers like thinking their shit don’t stink. I’ll accept Stalinism’s evil as far left all day long and agree in hate. But right wingers like to put Nazis and the Confederacy on us too. And that’s bullshit.

[Zestyassmf1997]

The debate stems from people who have only cursory understanding of the matter, at least in the case of naziism. People can’t seem to wrap their heads around the fact that an ideology can be economically left wing, and socially far right. The confederacy is a whole other issue. That stems from more personal perceptions depending on where you’re from.

[monorprise]

Comparing any political faction to anther across either time or national boundaries let alone both is a very messy and less than accurate endeavor @Zestyassmf1997 .
This is simply because the presupposed tool of an ideological spectrum is itself an attempt to graft upon a mere 2 dimensions a N dimensional spectrum of polices.

For example the definition of conservative and liberal doesn't even make sense in a lot of countries given its origin in the very different politics and history of France.

Both positions in different ways apply to both the U. S. politician parties and in even more numerous ways to the various state versions of said parties. Said general definition of conservative is itself even more non-comparable given it is specifically referencing the history of said country.

This is in fact part of the problem for the USA, because our history is strongly rooted in liberalism (now called libertarian). Therefore by global standards the conservative party in America is generally the most liberal party.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Yeah, I think we tend to lump people and ideas into categories like, “left, right, liberal, conservative” probably stems from the fact that politics is a group matter, even in oligarchic or dictatorial countries. And therefore, the inconsistencies we see in those labels are a sort of reflection of the individuals that make up those groups.

[OddBeMe]

Sure, but people here are saying socialism is 100% left, which is utter bullshit. That’s like saying capitalism is only left wing.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Well socialism is generally a left wing economic theory. Capitalism is generally considered a more right wing economic theory.

[OddBeMe]

@monorprise “liberalism (now called libertarian)”…. lol please explain dummy.

[Zestyassmf1997]

Liberalism and Liberalism aren’t the same thing. Crazy, huh? Let me explain. There are actually two types of liberalism. There’s liberalism, and Liberalism. Notice that one has a lowercase L and the other is treated as a proper noun. It actually gets even more confusing because conservatives are also liberal but not Liberal, whereas democrats are liberal Liberals. Confused yet? Anyway, as far as differences go, the lowercase L is indicative of positions like opposition to government interference in…well…anything. The uppercase L general refers to people left of center. That’s why he referred to liberals as being similar to modern day libertarians.

[OddBeMe]

@Zestyassmf1997 Your political science major would give you F.

[Zestyassmf1997]

I’m afraid I’ve already passed polisci. So you’re wrong there. But this isn’t about me. I’m just trying to explain stuff to you. Dunno why you’re making turning to personal attacks. If you disagree you can just say so and make your case.

[monorprise]

@OddBeMe There are many names for what we now call liberalism, The word liberal was dominate in America in the 19th century before progressives hijacked it and still is around the world.

[OddBeMe]

@monorprise no…liberal vs conservative has long been an intellectual and philosophical struggle that makes governments work. Different parts of the world have different spectrums of it than the US…but it’s essentially the same ballpark.

Liberalism is not libertarianism. Theyre closer on the spectrum. Just like far left Stalinism and far right Nazism. Lol

[monorprise]

What you @OddBeMe today call liberalism in America is actually a form of bleeding heart imperial paternalism. The result of the political collation of those elites who desire power, those people who simply don't trust people to take care of themselves, and those people who simply want to make sure everyone is taken care of.

Where as the global and 19th century American definition of Liberalism is simply people should be left alone free to do as they wish as long as they don't harm others. This obviously has nothing to do with the ideology of the American who now call themself liberal.

Thus consistent with the long standing practice of political parties the conservative party is actually the more liberal party in America. The liberal party is actually the more imperial party reflecting those tendencies absolute monarchs who similarly distrusted their people to rule over them in any respect they deem advantageous. Thou many of their supporters admittedly don't intend that instead merely naively wanting what their leaders promised to "solve" other people's problems.

[Tamera952]

Because in hindsight, revisionists always seem to want to rewrite history?

[OddBeMe]

Boom

[Cice137]

Couple years ago I watched as 4chan trolled the world into believing the "A-Okay," hand gesture somehow meant "white supremacy."

When I watched Malcolm in the middle it was a game not to look below the waist or else I would get punched.

As an adult in cult exit counseling it's also a satanic hand gesture like the rock on devils horn hand gesture. Left hand reveals how each finger looks like triple 6. Also in Monster energy drink logo, disney, etc...

Bottom line, co-opting flags, symbols is easy. But people are harder to convince that it actually means something else.

[disgustingweebtrash]

Hitler was a centrist. I'm tired of people pretending he was not. Integrating left economics with right social values = centrism

BUT HE WAS RACIST THAT MEANS HECKIN FAR RIGHTIST

NOOOO HE WAS A SOCIALIST THAT MEANS HE WAS A FAR LEFTIST

Neither. He was a centrist.

[gorydetails]

oh, yeah.. and the left is still racist.

[OddBeMe]

And right wingers aren’t?
https://youtu.be/xUv05bFpkck?si=jayO9vBvwGdm5cFo

[milyjohn]

The left wants you to forget who started the KKK.

[goaded]

@milyjohn The racist southern Democrats, back before the civil rights act made them decide that the Republican party was the one for them. If you look at the CRA voting, it was quite mixed when it came to parties, but 9:1 when it came to whether the state was a former confederate state or not.

[OddBeMe]

@milyjohn the KKK and former slave owners were liberals? you're dumber than I thought.

[milyjohn]

Liberals like you and goat.

[OddBeMe]

@milyjohn So again…just to be clear in your warped mind…Liberal progressives were the slave owners back then. Not conservatives?

[milyjohn]

Would you join the KKK?

[OddBeMe]

@milyjohn no of course not. You dumb fucks keep pointing to party names from 150 years ago like that means something.

Liberals were the abolitionists trying to change the status quo. And the kkk was left overs from the confederacy wanting to kill and terrorize black people.

Who today is killing and terrorizing black people? Republicans or Democrats?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiJZm0nmJRg

[Anonymous]

Because libtards keep changing it.