Is Jordan Peterson right about communism and how people think they can get it right where others have failed?

[Juxtapose]

Sorry guys, the last question had some stupid text correction which really bothered me so I remade this question. Video is below:

[Knightwatch27]

He is right, but it's hardly just Dr. Peterson's idea about Communism, that's just communist history in general and has been said for a long time in Political Science, I'd know since I am a political scientist myself. It's common fact that every single time it was attempted, Stalinism, Leninism, Trotskyism, Maoism etc. it resulted in national bankruptcy, dictatorship, revolution, mass slaughter and starvation.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded @OddBeMe

See?

[Juxtapose]

Some people think that only if you managed communism through democracy it would work but that's hubris.

[Knightwatch27]

That's lala land. Emperical evidence is all over the place.

[OddBeMe]

Juxy, You have a tendency to follow self proclaimed “experts” who agree with you. I’d watch out for that.

Again I stand by my statement without ever watching this shit vid. Jordan and all you fucks THINK you’re talking about communism. It’s not. No right minded person wants communism back.

Democratic socialism? Hell yeah.

[Juxtapose]

You literally don't look at any sources or people I like so I don't want to hear that from you.

The rest that is not worth responding since it has absolutely nothing to do with the video or the point I am driving at whatsoever. I am talking about full communism where they decide where you work and what you receive for that work. It is not decided by you, that is not socialism. I'm not an idiot who doesn't know the difference between socialism and communism.

[Juxtapose]

Another user actually does want communism but he thinks he can implement it in a way that is supposedly correct that nobody else in history has ever done before.

[Knightwatch27]

@OddBeMe I do not recall having ever proclaimed myself an expert. But better to at least inform of your background than simply act as if you know it all without laying claim to any credentials whatsoever. Maybe you ought to watch out for that.
As for democratic socialism, there's precious little data on how such a system fares and before anyone tries to claim "that's what Scandinavians have" no it is not. As a swede myself I can tell you we have a very much capitalist society.

"No right minded person wants communism back." Plenty of people are proud communists, I've met them, I have friends who've met them, and they are the people addressed by Jordan here. So saying that you haven't even watched Dr. Peterson's video but decry him for "not talking about communism", come off it. He knows the difference. Think what you will of the man but don't be delusional as to think he doesn't know how to separate ideologies when discussing them.

[OddBeMe]

Your background is irrelevant to ideas. Besides this is a anon site, you could be Trump pretending to be his own press agent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQRciZXrTFk

[OddBeMe]

My god…you met commies? I’ve met none.

Again…I think you fucks THINK they’re communists. When they’re just calling for more socialism. Which isn’t bad.

[Juxtapose]

You're so far behind cus you didn't watch the video omfg you have no idea what's going on.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded wants communism under his vision.

[OddBeMe]

@goaded doesn’t want communism. He isn’t a commie. And I invite him dumb down his reply for you.

He was simply saying how communism is self defeating. And even Stalin and Mao admitted they didn’t read Marx. Serisously, you’re so stupid, like Jordy, you can’t see the difference between ideas in the communists manifesto and communism as governments in the 20th century. It’s amazing how stupid this whole post really is. And how much money Jordy has acquired from idiots like you.

[Juxtapose]

@OddBeMe so you're one of those idiots who think that you are one of the enlightened ones who can get communism right? You wouldn't make the same mistakes as those other world leaders? You wouldn't get assassinated like the people who came right before Stalin?

[Juxtapose]

You're absurd to think that only you have read that manifesto and only people like you can get it right.

[Juxtapose]

Isn't 100,000,000 deaths enough for this experiment?

[Juxtapose]

How many more have to die before you admit this doesn't work?

[OddBeMe]

What doesn’t work? Specifics please. This is is my fucking point. You guys THINK me and @goaded are commies when we simply want…unemployment, disability, social security, free healthcare…etc.

USSR was the first anti antisemitic country in the history of the world fyi. Then Stalin was just about to call for a mass killing of Jews, like he did doctors months before, when he dies of an aneurism. Lol

[Juxtapose]

@OddBeMe you're talking about basic social programs in the last sentence of your first paragraph which we already have, except free healthcare for the non-disabled.

I am talking about straight up communism where the state decides what job you have and what you get as a reward for doing that job. Socialism does not have that feature, thankfully. Even countries like Sweden are technically not socialist countries however. Sweden is a capitalist country with some socialism sprinkled in.

[Knightwatch27]

@OddBeMe I don't really get why you feel the need to continously refer to us as "fucks". Manners maketh man you know. It's in quite poor taste.
Socialism sucks just as much and I still don't really grasp who "they" are whom you refer to. What group are we addressing?

[Knightwatch27]

@OddBeMe And yes I've met many commies. My friend even met one at campus who advocated in all seriousness for a bloody revolution. You say you haven't met any communists in your part of the world and so based on that incredibly narrow data you surmise "no one" wants communism? Do you not see how intellectually poor that is?

[OddBeMe]

@knightwatch27 If you met many commies then you’re more commie than me.

@Juxtapose And no, those programs are socialism. Which taken too far CAN produced communist states as seen in the 20th century. But as seen in the 21st Century…Europe is doing nearly as well as a continent as the US and they have few mass shootings, universal healthcare and 10x the education.

Almost like it’s a utopia…

[Knightwatch27]

@OddBeMe Because that makes sense.

[OddBeMe]

Thanks!

[Knightwatch27]

@OddBeMe Lol, I think you believe yourself much better at getting under people's skin than you actually are.

[OddBeMe]

That’s not my aim. I literally just provide facts to dumb posts like this.

If I’m getting under your skin, take a look at yourself.

[Knightwatch27]

@OddBeMe Whatever you say.

[RealMarek]

@OddBeMe Europe would have a much more difficult time providing free medical care and education if the US was not paying for most of its defense and subsidizing medical research through exorbitant pricing for US medical care.

[OddBeMe]

@RealMarek ehh “it’s defense”? Europe polices themselves. And they don’t go invading for fake wmd.

They have a populace who needed free healthcare after WW2 thus they were brainwashed like Americans to hate anything related to Marx.

[OddBeMe]

*weren’t brainwashed.

[KrakenAttackin]

Hundreds of millions have been killed in pursuit of this left wing insanity, and still we have plenty of lunatics insisting we impose Communism.

[Juxtapose]

To this day I still meet people who have the arrogance to think they could have done it differently.. that *THEY'D* be the ones to get it right.

Hubris that ignores 100 million deaths.

[KrakenAttackin]

@Juxtapose. You see that arrogance here in GAG, it's absolutely striking.

[Juxtapose]

Ironically people who are from Germany of all places. Seems like they didn't learn their lesson with authoritarianism.

[KrakenAttackin]

@Juxtapose. American liberals are you the same way.

[ApplePie409]

Trump airlifted $100,000,000 in food to Venezuela, because the people were starving, eating zoo animals, eating their pets and eating out of garbage trucks. Nicolás Maduro wouldn't allow the food to enter the country. What an awesome system they had. I'm making a tuna sandwich for lunch. It's not Wagyu steak from Japan, but I feel blessed that I don't have to eat out of a dumpster.

[ApplePie409]

@goaded
You childish, pathetic, non-American losers make me want to barf. You can't do a Google search to save your life, because you're terrified of the results. You NEED to hate, but you dream of kissing Biden's ass. I'll make you a deal. Tell me why you want to kiss the ass of brain-dead, Biden, and I'll hold your hand and send you some links of what was WORLD news in 2019. Everyone knew it but you.

"Me German. Orange Man Bad. I'm hiding in the closet."

[DishLady]

Maybe… it’s not a guarantee. There are SO many linguists and psychologists who thought they got it right… then the mode of communication changed and all the theories went to h*ll. 🤷🏻‍♀️


I think each generation, at least, has their mode of communication set. But then think of the eye rolling moments you try to get you mon to use the remote or FaceTime correctly… communication fails because of small things.


In the end, if you play “the language game” and both you and those in your circle all focus on clear and honest communication, it works. Misinterpretation is usually just a matter of intention and/or inexperience.

[Juxtapose]

If you watched the video you would have realized I made a terrible typo and this isn't about communication at all.. I remade the question, please ignore this one.

[DishLady]

Oh! No, I didn’t realize it was a vid!

[DishLady]

(I read a little summary about his theory, though. It’s similar to old Philosophy of Language theorists from WWII onward.)

[Juxtapose]

How the fuck did this comment thread that was in the previous question that was deleted get here? This was a remake of that old question.

[DishLady]

🤷🏻‍♀️…

[goaded]

@Juxtapose "How..." Sounds like someone in power was being helpful!

[Juxtapose]

Yeah, after I blocked ALL the ones that were censoring me unfairly then they became helpful! The remaining ones are pretty chill and do their job well.

[Juxtapose]

Before man I couldn't even talk to you like this without it being counted as a members post. I had some pretty malicious attention coming my way from an sjw mod.

"Hey goaded I really like your post."

That comment would have been counted as a member post. Absolutely ridiculous.

[goaded]

When did you ever say "Hey goaded I really like your post."

[Juxtapose]

@goaded it's a completely random but valid, fictional example. I have given you a compliment or two on your post before but not in those exact words.

[Juxtapose]

*posts

[OtterMan68]

It works well in small doses like monastaries, convents, and communes because everyone buys into it. It doesn't work if you try to force it on people.

[Juxtapose]

Some people here think it can work if you use democracy to implement it. I don't think they're right because with all that power there for the taking, they would get shot in the back of the head just like Stalin shot the old guard who implemented communism before he killed them and took over.

[Curmudgeon]

Then, and now, and in the future...

[genericname85]

i think Jordan Peterson is right about psychology and Politics. but he's wrong on religion.

[Juxtapose]

Oh I am an atheist and think the same thing. He's talking about communism here though.

[genericname85]

Yeah as I said I agree with him on communism.

[onedarkcloud]

So far Communism is 100% failure. Just look at all former and present Communist countries and tell us how great they are fairing.

[Juxtapose]

The people who think they can get it right where others have failed would lead to many more millions of deaths.

[onedarkcloud]

Just as the Biden administration is following THE DEMOCRATIC COMMUNIST PARTY OF AMERICA. to the destruction of AMERICA. People forget that Communism is the ultamate of Socialism

[DryGermanGuy]

Every time an American politician uses the word "communism", it's nothing else but a cussword for "politics of the other party that I don't like". The - mostly interchangeable - alternatives are obviously "fascism" and "terrorism". It has nothing to do with what is actually be proposed or implemented.

[Juxtapose]

I'm talking about full communism dude, were they decide what you do for work and what you receive for it. It's the full package of Karl Marx and is not some pussy, halfway measure like socialism. I'm talking full, full communism. Think of Stalin or Mao.

[Juxtapose]

Don't mistake me for someone who doesn't know what a basic economic term is ffs

[DryGermanGuy]

You seem to have a special talent for missing the big picture, the red herring, the straw man. This guy is not there because someone recommended full or real communism or attempted to implement full or real communist policies or anything like that. Him and others like him just provide the usual noise and distraction against any progressive legislation. For example if the left proposed support mechanisms for young mothers, students or mentally ill people, then someone like him shows up and howls about 100 million dead people under communism and "explains" that such and such would be bad ideas because it would be a slippery slope to communism and communism doesn't work and so on. The modus operandi is just to confuse people with historically correct facts that are completely irrelevant to the subject at hand, because nobody is interested in switching to communism, neither quarter, half-way or full communism!

[BoopBoopBeep]

Works great at the family-sized-unit. Works horrible at the country-sized unit.

[BoopBoopBeep]

Absolutely. There's always the human taint in there, which is why it will never work.

[goaded]

Communism requires a free and fair democracy, it does not accept inter-generational wealth transfer. Name one "communist" country that has free and fair elections.

[goaded]

FYI: not just blocked by foul-mouthed person, but responses (asking for simple clarification) deleted. Do you think blocking someone is an admission of defeat? ↗ Shame you can't delete your own messages.

[Juxtapose]

Thinking you are The Golden Child who can get communism right where nobody else has gotten it right is hubris and would only lead to more death. You are not better than other world leaders, you are not smarter or more moral than they are. And EVEN if you were, you would be shot in the back of the head just like Stalin did to the old guard who implemented the original communism in Russia.

[Juxtapose]

Name one communist country that has implemented communism successfully. You can't. There's always some sort of exception, and you think if only YOU were the one in charge..

That's what they thought too.

[Juxtapose]

*exception as in you think something went wrong and only enlightened people like you can fix it

[goaded]

I asked first: "Name one "communist" country that has free and fair elections."

[OddBeMe]

@goaded He won’t answer. He has a script and we’re not following.

[Juxtapose]

None of them do because communism does not allow for such a thing. You have to have such a ham-fisted approach to force that kind of thing on to society that it necessitates authoritarianism.

It only works in small groups if at all because people have to buy into it. There has never been a communist country that has had free and fair elections because communism does not allow for that sort of thing. You cannot name a single communist country that would be pleasant to live in or is a success story of communism.

They ALL turn to shit.. unlike capitalist societies which are bearable. As a matter of fact, capitalist societies are so free that you can have small communes where people practice communism willingly. In communism can you have small communes where people practice capitalism?

[Juxtapose]

Frankly the burden of proof is on you guys to prove that communism can work in anything but small groups.

[goaded]

"communism does not allow for such a thing [as free and fair elections]".
Really? Who says? How else are the people supposed to have power?

[Juxtapose]

The people don't have power.. they don't even get to choose what job they have or how they get compensated.

This always ends in authoritarianism. Your pipe dream of free and fair elections is not going to work. If you tried to get it to work, you would be assassinated and all that power just laying there would be seized by somebody else.

[Juxtapose]

It's amazing to me, how despite over 100 million people having died from Communism, people insist that they are the ones that can usher in the utopia and everyone else just was dumber and more evil than they are.

You're not as good as you think you are and even if you were, you would be killed by someone who wasn't.

[goaded]

How many time must I point out the obvious? Communism means that the people have the power and ownership of the means of production. As you rightly say, the so-called "communist" states so far have been run by dictators and the people have no power.

The only way to implement a communist state is for there to be regular, free and fair elections.

[Juxtapose]

Communism is where the big boot of the government stomps on your neck and tells you what you can do for work and also what you will receive in compensation.

You wanted to be a bartender? Too bad, pick up the pickaxe and go to the mine you slave. You don't think your compensation is fair and you feel like your autonomy is not respected? Gulag for you.

Never once in history has this ever been different. Communism doesn't work in large groups.

[Juxtapose]

If you want to control the means of production for real, go to a capitalist society and make something of yourself. Produce your own thing freely and reap the rewards with supply and demand.

[goaded]

You couldn't be much more wrong (although I'm sure you'll try). 1984 wasn't a book about communism. Tell you what, why don't you go out and control Amazon. You seem to think that just takes hard work.

Worker's freedom (weekends, overtime, paid leave...) have come about because of workers joining together. You'd still be working 6 or even 7 days a week if it wasn't for unions. That's why Bezos, Musk and the others are against them, and even you can't be dumb enough to think that they wouldn't be working their employees 7 days a week until they drop, if they could.

[OddBeMe]

Jesus ducking Christ I can’t listen to Jordan without wanting to blow my head off.

Long story short: Nazism and Communism bad. They were both dictatorships with different window dressings.

[Juxtapose]

This isn't about Nazism at all. Did you even watch the video?

[OddBeMe]

I just said I’d blow my head off if I hear his fucking voice. Communism bad! Socialism isn’t that. And the Europeans have made work WITH capitalism.

[Juxtapose]

This video was not about socialism.

This video is about people who think they can make Communism work. They can't.

[OddBeMe]

It’s about calling anything you don’t like communism. No one anywhere…especially liberal countries in Europe are ANYWHERE close to communism.

[goaded]

Have you heard of "Critical Ignoring"? ↗
theconversation.com/to-navigate-the-dangers-of-the-web-you-need-critical-thinking-but-also-critical-ignoring-158617
www.psychologicalscience.org/.../teaching-current-directions-critical-ignoring

[Juxtapose]

Dude we're talking about literal communism and how some people think they can get communism right where others have not. This is about full communism, not that pussy socialism shit where they go halfway. I'm talking about full, full communism. Where you don't choose what you receive or what you do for work, that type of communism.

[Juxtapose]

@goaded pussy shit right there. You need to engage with the opposition even if they are tin foil hat wearing creationists otherwise you are not going to get anywhere. Critical ignoring is the philosophy of a pussy.

[OddBeMe]

I haven’t seen the video and can already tell it’s NOT about people who think communism can work.

It’s secretly about Jordan and shit like you believing communism is WHAT they’re talking about.

[goaded]

@Juxtapose I do "engage with the opposition", which includes stating that certain people are not reasonable sources of information or tend to make unreasonable arguments. Isn't it you who dismisses anything from Wikipedia, no matter how well sourced?

[Juxtapose]

@goaded my highschool explicitly taught me that Wikipedia is not a valid citation so I carry that with me and I warned people about that when I do sight Wikipedia.

Jordan Peterson is not some website that anyone can edit, he is an intelligent public figure. I don't agree with everything he says of course, especially on religion because that shit is illogical nonsense. Jordan is pretty solid overall though, much more than the likes of let's say Joe Biden, the ladies on the View, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Bill Clinton, etc.

[Juxtapose]

*cite Wikipedia

[OddBeMe]

That’s your problem. Why isn’t wiki a valid source? You actually can’t randomly edit to put in wrong info without it being corrected.

But it’s not the wiki pages itself, it’s the citations at the bottom that are important. I still agree with your teachers, but I know why.

[Juxtapose]

From Wikipedia itself:

"As a user-generated source, it can be edited by anyone at any time, and any information it contains at a particular time could be vandalism, a work in progress, or simply incorrect."

[OddBeMe]

And it’s fixed by valiant mods.

[Juxtapose]

In fantasyland maybe. It's still not a valid source.

[OddBeMe]

Sure, but their citations can be.

[Juxtapose]

Then you should just link to those citations directly after double checking.

[OddBeMe]

Nah, I’ll do as little as possible. I’ve yet to find an erroneous wiki article, by the way.

[Juxtapose]

Hahaha 🤣

[OddBeMe]

Not sure what that means. Did I get an answer by the way? Are authors responsible for murders linked to their work?

[Staximus]

He's right. It doesn't work with humans because of greed and the desire of power and control

[Dongie]

I've not heard one incorrect statement this guy has said in public.

[patois]

Yeah he gets it... You can tell by the language he chooses... Possessed...

[DrPepper12]

Yes. Many have have successfully become social Democrat

[Juxtapose]

Socialism is not communism.

[handsomelad70]

SCREW JORDAN PETERSON !!! (I'd rather listen to the late MLB left-handed hurler FRITZ Peterson !!!)

[Staximus]

You mean communism? He's right. Communism only works in Fantasyland

[handsomelad70]

How does Communism apply here?

[Staximus]

@handsomelad70 I Guess you didn't watch the video

[Juxtapose]

This comment was taken from a previous version of the question that had a typing correction error in the title. Yes, a comment on another question was actually transferred to another question

[handsomelad70]

I didn't, Staximus. Anyway, Communism only works in Fantasyland.

[Juxtapose]

@handsomelad70 THANK YOU.

[gorydetails]

yeah, he’s right as usual.

[DJB72]

Yup. Smart guy.