Now Netanyahu has gone too far? The latest bombing rafah killing 22 civilians is a turning point?

[Anonymous]

Israel is disgusting

[JackBnymble]

Yeah. Too far.

Of course, there were no innocent women and children in Nagasaki and Hiroshima when America roasted 200,000 innocent civilians in 1945.

And there were no women and children at Wounded Knee when the 7th Cavalry murdered 200 unarmed noncombatants and stole their land.

And there were no women and children and old men in Vietnam when America napalmed over 45 villages full of civilians.

And there no civilians living west of Texas when America wiped out the Mexican indigenous there and stole their land.

And of course there were no innocents in Africa when Americans arrived there and annihilated entire villages and families and shipped their slave cargo to the United States.

And of course there was that little episode in 1990 over "weapons of mass destruction" that were never there, where we bombed villages full of non-combatants.

If y'all want to start pointing fingers and yelling "gone too far", you'd better start at home. Israel doesn't dictate to America how we murder innocent non-combatants. We should be courteous enough to be quiet (Since we're such a good example of humanitarianism).

[Asker]

Great answer

I'm not American so I can say something

Yes USA and Israel in Gaza are the culprits. Sorry to say.

[Bricealan]

@JackBnymble Oh please spare us the history lesson... for christ sake!!! God damn man, what brought us into World War 2 ? Oh you forgot that? The Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor, on a Sunday morning, indiscriminately "murdering' hundreds and hundreds of navy and civilian personnel while they slept, WHILE THE U. S. was trying to remain neutral and not get involved in the war in Europe... How soon we forget... and you tool sir !

[JackBnymble]

@Bricealan
See, the thing is, that was an act of war. Pearl Harbor was a MILITARY BASE. It was a fair target.
Nagasaki and Hiroshima were civilian cities, not military bases. We're soldiers not murders. We aren't supposed to kill civilians in revenge for an legitimate attack on our military base by another military. Pearl was a fair target.

There's a difference in sneak attacking a military base VS sneak attacking a civilian city or a village full of unarmed Indian women and children. The guys at Pearl got caught with their dicks in their hands because they were lazy and complacent. And I don't take Rules of Engagement advice from girlie guys who do yoga and play the violin. My DD214 says "Honorable", I did three tours in Iraq, one in Mogadishu, and two is 'stan. Shot tice, blew up once, and run over once. My government saw that I was educated and trained in ROE and the Geneva Convention and I have the most elite training you can get at Bragg, so fuck you, civilian.

Pick up a rifle and do something other than tickle you little violin or play yoga with the chicks then maybe you'll earn the right to an opinion.

"De oppresso liber" ~ Pineland, NC USA

Have a nice day, Nancy. Leave the war fighting to the men. Just say "thank you for your service" and go play yoga with the other chicks.

[Anonymous]

How many is that now

Still not close to the 10million I expect the slackers

[Bricealan]

Wait a minute ! Just how long has this SAME bullshit been going on! Not unlike the Hatfield's and the McCoy's! Does anybody know how long the Crusades went on?

This Israeli / Palestine horses ass war has gone on longer than any war on this planet, and it is never going to end with the Arabs continuing to run around yelling 'Death to America - Death to Israel" AND then Hamas still firing rockets into Tel aviv.

Hamas fires literally hundreds and hundreds of rockets into Israel, and kills how many?

And now... all the bleeding hearts are crying" "Hey stop... stop... war crimes war crimes, war crimes !

If Netanyahu were to withdraw in the face of all of the BS International backlash, it would not be six months, until Hamas and all the rest of the scum will be rocketing Israel AGAIN and AGAIN, and dancing in the streets..."death to America, Death to ISREAL"... AND EVERYBODY READING THIS KNOWS IT.

HOW SOON WE FORGET! GOOD GOD, LETS GET 'REAL' PEOPLE!!!

[Asker]

Clearly there are people around here who are happy to see women and children being bombed

[Asker]

By the way even Netanyahu the perpetrator described it as a tragic mistake

So before you go whooping and celebrating, this is how the leader described it.

[northerngal]

First what Hamas did was appalling and without question a crime against humanity. Lets be totally clear about that. I can totally understand Isreal's anger and shock at such a animalistic attack against civilians.

However governments are supposed to be able to think clearly and rationally in a crisis. The Israeli government has failed to do that. They have succeeded in turning much of the world against them and continue to lose support every day. By lashing out emotionally and conducting a war without regard to civilian casualties and humanitarian needs they are on the verge of a strategic defeat. They will always win the battles but will lose the war. They had the sympathy and support of the world and have now lost most of it. They are only strengthening their enemy by appearing to be no better then them... hey Israel you are supposed to be the good guys!

Just my opinion.

[RebelinSteel]

@northerngal fully agree with this, well said

[behnam1999]

You call killing nnocent people "anger"... Do you kill babies and women when are you are angry? How could you even understand that?

[behnam1999]

I call it evil.. That's evil. And we all have to stand up against evil. Israel has shown they do not abide by any moral values at all. There's no place in the world for such wickedness.

[RebelinSteel]

@behnam1999 did you even bother to read it. I guess not.

[Asker]

Very well phrased

[behnam1999]

@RebelinSteel I totally read what she said.. But I think she didn't picture the reality of Israel well enough.. Israelis being angry does not explain all of it.. The fact that Israelis are killing people has nothing to do with what Hamas or anyone else did. It comes from their ideology. Zionists believe that Jews are superior to non-Jews. That's what you can find in their book, Talmud. It never began on October 7th. They've been oppressing Palestinians for years. They committed massacres and genocides against Palestinian people. Sabra and Shatille... Deir Yasin and etc. The story didn't begin on October 7th.

[behnam1999]

@RebelinSteel Hamas has done what they have to do. They defended Palestine during all these years.

[RebelinSteel]

@behnam1999 so you 100% condemn Hamas for their murdering, raping, torturing children, women, men?
You consider Hamas utterly evil terrorists?

[ApplePie409]

Israel has no choice in this matter. Iran wants them dead. They should stop wasting their time with Hamas, and just nuke Iran.

[Asker]

Yes but they only bomb small country like Gaza, West Bank
with the backing of USA.

They would never act without US support.

So they won't act except to an easy target.

[behnam1999]

They bomb innocent people and their excuse is that Hamas members are hiding there. That somehow makes killing 35000 people justifiable. Everybody needs to wake up. It's time to stand against this crime and terrorist organization which is called Israel.

[NamerOfStars]

Would you rather he kill ALL the civilians? Those are the only options he has.

[Syntosi]

No he has plenty of options, many of which are even recommended by experts. He just does not want to do any of them and continue with what everyone agrees is counter productive and will never work. The argument that Nethanyahu dont have any other options is disproved by the fact that the options he is currently doing is worthless and will not amount to anything so obviously he very much can do other things as well if he wanted.

[Asker]

Very strange answer

Obviously he has options

But he has gone too far

[NamerOfStars]

@Syntosi Okay, I'll ask you straight out: what could he do that hasn't already been tried and failed, short of having his soldiers go door-to-door, killing every Israeli they see?

[NamerOfStars]

Okay, I'll ask you straight out: what could he do that hasn't already been tried and failed, short of having his soldiers go door-to-door, killing every Israeli they see?

[Syntosi]

Well, if this was a more normal situation then a war could be considered but because they are fighting against what is essentially terrorists then these tactics are pointless. The goal of terrorists are generally to provoke the government to overreact. An invasion is an example of an overreaction.

You can see how Hamas has twisted and turned the situation into becoming "Israels fault" because of it. They are now the bad guys and Hamas has gotten a new wave of fresh recruits and new resources. This is sort of how these things work. USA has been dealing with this same problem in the middle east since forever so they have literal handbooks for how to deal with it.

That said, to just name two other options that would actually work. The first one is re-alignment. Israel at least used to have a really good secret service which allows them to selectively manipulate the leadership inside Hamas to ultimately get them to do what Israel wants. The idea is pretty simple, you need to make sure that the correct people is allowed to climb the promotional ladder within Hamas hierarchy and prevent or outright kill those that are problematic. In practice this is very different but its something that can be done and USA has experience doing this.

The other option is the one USA is sort of proposing right now which is to bring Gaza to the table and negotiate. Normally you do this with the terrorists themselves but not in this particular case. The idea being that by providing humanitarian aid, an international security force to stand between Gaza and Israel and finally to recognize Palestine then you can move the conflict away from shooting each other to a diplomat table in which case they can argue until they turn blue in the face but at least no one gets hurt. As long as both sides feels like they get to participate then you can finally move forward.

[NamerOfStars]

@Syntosi I said that HAVEN'T been tried and failed. Your latter option is what has been tried almost nonstop since 1948, and has invariably produced treaties that have the lifespan of a duck in a trash compactor. Your former option is what was being tried up until the attacks in October; the Israeli government partially funded Hamas' propaganda campaigns, since dealing with a known enemy was easier.

Both failed. Try again.

[Syntosi]

No. Neither of these things has been tried before in this context. Similar things maybe, but they have always been lacking something that would have prevented them from working. For the realignment for example you need an incredibly good secret service (US can help with this to some degree) and you also need to be very careful. It can work though.

As for the other option, that requires a MASSIVE international push with the direct support of a large number of countries but it looks like USA is making this work which is why I brought it up.

I did not say these were the best or even the easiest options. Only that they were options. More specifically I picked the realignment because its the most "direct" way to successfully attack and defeat Hamas and the other option because USA is trying VERY HARD to convince Israel to cooperate with them on it and make it happen and as such its the most realistic to actually happen.

[NamerOfStars]

@Syntosi Yes, they HAVE been tried- a minor change in current details doesn't alter the facts that 1. they've been tried before, and failed before, and 2. while you keep trying things that have failed over and over again, your people are still being killed, and your enemies are being emboldened.

Once more: do you have any new ideas that haven't been tried yet? If not, it's war to the knife, or it's genocide.

[Syntosi]

Speaking of things that has been tried and never works, genocide and "war to the knife" has never worked where as the examples I provided actually does.

I mean, I could point you towards the experts who all agree with me (since I formed my opinion after listening to them in the first place) but I am fairly sure you would not be receptive to their arguments either.

What are you even asking for at this point? I can't imagine that anything I could say would ever change your mind after you already decided on your own answer.

[behnam1999]

The only options they have is to kill innocent peope? What Israel really gets from killing people in Rafah? Can you tell why this is the only option?

[NamerOfStars]

@behnam1999 Because, as I've repeatedly told you, everything lesser has been tried and failed. What Israel gets out of this is enemies who are too terrified/unable to slaughter THEIR innocent civilians. All Israel is doing is what Hamas has been doing for decades; they just don't suck at it.

[Syntosi]

@NamerOfStars
That is where you are wrong though. This has not made Hamas weaker. Perhaps you could argue that it has temporarily spent their forces and resources but that was not without gain. Hamas wanted Israel to invade because that becomes fuel for Hamas recruitment and funnels further resources into their organization.

What Israel has done is not to dissuade Hamas from doing such an attack in the future, but to encourage them since from their point of view this was a great outcome. You need to stop thinking about this as if its two countries that are fighting. The same rules does not apply when fighting an organization such as Hamas. You can't just "beat" them into submission.

[NamerOfStars]

@Syntosi That's exactly my point- you CAN'T beat a group like Hamas in the field. Well, you CAN, but it won't make any difference. The only way to truly defeat them is to destroy their public support. And since the situation was allowed to fester so long, the only way to do that is to make the price too high- which is exactly what Israel is doing, or at least trying to do.

[Syntosi]

Ahaha! What? No, honestly, what did you just say?

On one hand you recognize that attacking Hamas "in the field" does not threaten their organization and you recognize that this conflict is about public support.. but then you turn around and say that Israel is trying to "make the price too high"... which makes NO sense.

Make the price too high for whom? Hamas? They are gaining more value than they are spending almost by default. The civilians? They do not see it that way, they see it as Israel persecuting them for something that they did not do or otherwise deserve. It does not matter how much you will bomb Gaza, they will never put the blame on Hamas for what Israel is doing, even if you could make the argument that it is their fault that does not translate into what the population feel.

[NamerOfStars]

@Syntosi I said exactly what I said- which DOES make sense, and the only reason you pretend to deny it is because you don't have a counter-argument. It's pretty clear you DON'T have a better course of action for Israel, and are just complaining because you don't like the one they've taken. I don't, either, for whatever it's worth, but I'm intellectually honest enough to admit that when it's do or die, smart people choose "do".

[Asker]

Smart people choose
Do drop 3000 pound bombs on civilians
Do kill women and children
Do kill the unborn in the womb
Do create 100m more enemies
Do repeat the genocide that was suffered by the jews 70 years ago... to a different people

[Syntosi]

No I literally do not understand what you just said. Hamas is not paying any costs, the civilians are and the way they "get tired" of paying those costs is by joining Hamas and try to directly oppose Israel. You said it yourself, this is a public opinion battle and Israel is not making any friends by bombing those who they are supposed to make friends with.

The results are pretty simple. The more Israel bombs Gaza the more support Hamas gets and the stronger Hamas grows. The only costs are Israeli tax payer money (and lives) and the deaths of the Gazan people, both which Hamas LOVES to "pay" for their own benefit.

I mean seriously. Whom do you suppose is going to become tired of paying the price? Israel itself maybe? What you said literally MAKES NO DAMN SENSE. Help it make sense!

[Asker]

Can anyone remember what motivated the 9/11 bombers

Oh yea baby