Are we giving Ukraine enough credit for doing our job for us?

[OddBeMe]

Ukraine is…

1. Taking up NATO’s mission of pushing back Russian military advances.
2. Dissuading China from becoming offensive.
3. A non-nuclear power is holding off a nuclear superpower. Thats a big message to the world.

Also about those damn Nazis…

Ukraine rocks!

Fck Ukraine!

[integrale77]

Ukraine is defending themselves from Russia's invasion of their country.
They are not yet part of NATO but the NATO countries are providing arms for there defense within the restriction of not being dragged into the conflict.

So no they are not doing any job for us we are just helping the best we can even countries that typically stay neutral relating to Russia because they share a border are siding with the Ukraine.

The other important thing to consider is if we let Putin have his way with the Ukraine so he can rebuild his version of the USSR then where will he stop?

[OddBeMe]

Sounds like they are doing NATO’s job

[Avicenna]

NATO‘s job isn’t to protect non-NATO members

[OddBeMe]

@Avicenna it’s to check Russian expansion, no?

[Avicenna]

You are, as usual, confused. Russia is a dictatorship, but it isn't the Soviet Union, which NATO was designed to deter. People who haven't been living under a rock know that the Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore. NATO is about protecting its member states from attack, not non-member states that border Russia.

Do you really want to see Ukraine destroyed and depopulated? Putin will be happy to do that. Better to have Ukraine sign a peace agreement that preserves most of the country under its rule and some semblance of a nation. Or do you really want to try to retake Crimea using US troops?

[Avicenna]

And it doesn't make sense to make Russia a sworn enemy, especially given its willingness to partner with China, Iran, North Korea, Syria, Afghanistan, and other very unsavory regimes. It also doesn't make sense to weaken Russia to the point that it can't keep Siberia out of CCP hands (after all, look at Iraq today as an Iranian puppet rather than an opponent of Iran).

[integrale77]

I think a lot of people including Putin misunderstand what NATO is, it's like a club if your a member and someone attacks you the other club members come and help out especially if you are too small alone to defend yourself. If a non NATO country gets attacked then your not entitled to support but depending on the situation some countries might send medical and weapons to help but that's nothing to do with NATO.
Putin thinks NATO is going to invade him as some sort of joint army between the nations however NATO is just for defense and a way of stopping infighting between members.

Technically Putin could apply for NATO membership I don't think they would let him in.

[Drewtate]

For fight our proxy war for no benefit to the Ukrainian people when all they had to do was not join NATO or the EU.

For funding the us military industrial complex buying old us military arms with war loans they will have to pay back so that the us military can replace its cold war equipment with new stuff? All at the cost of Ukrainian manpower.

On the plus side there will be a lot of single Ukrainian women.

[OddBeMe]

So we should let Putin decide who can join the EU?

[llorando]

No, but we also shouldn't have promised Russia when the Soviet Union collapsed, that NATO wouldn't be expanded to the east, which is exactly what has happened, cause NATO is controlled by the military industrial complex and not only profits off of war, but earn more profits with each country that joins. Russia doesn't want NATO on it's boarder, just like we didn't want Soviet missiles on our boarder. You can accuse people of being Putin supporters all you want for not supporting the Ukraine proxy, doesn't change the fact many like myself oppose both Putin and the proxy just like we opposed both Saddam and the failed Iraq war.

[Drewtate]

This was warned and predicted 9 years ago. The warnings were ignored in the name of greed and the end result is hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians and Russians, hundreds of thousands more wounded, hundreds of thousands homeless, the Ukrainian economy destroyed, hundreds of thousands around the world starving because of the rise in the price of grain, Ukraine in massive debt to the US and EU, Ukrainian infrastructure destroyed and Ukraine fighting a perpetual war they cannot win and eventually when the US milks the cow dry will leave the Ukrainians hanging just like south Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya. All so the us military industrial complex and politicians can fill their pockets. The only difference is how many Ukrainians will die before it's over. Will you fight to the last Ukrainian?
https://youtu.be/j6wcadydk3w?si=ckOAlmYithtIlkPk
https://youtu.be/j6wcadydk3w?si=ckOAlmYithtIlkPk

[Alexandrubaschet08]

@llorando IS WHAS THE DECISION OF THE EASTERN BLOCK TO JOIN, WE SHOULD HAD THE RIGHT TO DECIDE OUR OWN FUTURE NOT RUSSIA. IF RUSSIA COULDN'T MANAGE TO BE A FRIENDLY AND HELPFUL COUNTRY FOR US TO STAY MORE CLOSE TO THEM IS THEYR PROBLEM THAT NOW WE JOIN BY OUR OWN WILL NATO.
RUSSIA can put theyr unclears bomb even at 1m away from any country they border, they can move them how ever they want, but of course if they become so dangerous, the neighbors country will take action to be ready to defend themselves. (NOT TO INVADE RUSSIA)
Putin should back off and live Ukraine do what ever they want to do for theyr country. The only action that Putin should take to "fight" NATO is to make his huge undeveloped country, more attractive for other nations, his economy more prosper, the lifestyle of russian people much more better, TO BE MORE DEMOCRATIC AND RESPECT THE AGREEMENT THEY ARE MAKING!
Accept to pay for they past action, like Germany and Japan!

[OddBeMe]

We also promised to close Gitmo. #Politics

[Alexandrubaschet08]

Better death then Red, non of the communist state should be listen to. Including the 47-89 Countys in the eastern block.
Afther we had overtone the communism we are eligible for help, talk and negotiations, assistance and alliances. But as long we whas communism our capitals (with Moscow fist in the line) should bad been nuked and erased from the face of world.
Communist countries had only selfish and curled criminals who don't care for the life's for the people and let them die in miseries with no chance for an alternative like in the democratic countries.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

KEEP OPEN GITMO! And finish the communism from the entire world you USA as Truman say it need to be done!

[Drewtate]

@Alexandrubaschet08 there is no need for an imperialist organisation like NATO that threatens it's neighbours

[OddBeMe]

Drew-son…. what do you mean here? I don’t see nato conquering and creating an empire. It’s actually touch for countries to join.

But clearly, Russia has been an aggressor since Sovietism and now Putinism. Thats been NATO’s aim: contain Russia.

[Drewtate]

The increasing growth of NATO since 1990 is pretty clear. NATO is the largest military organisation in history and there's been no need for it since 1990. Remember NATO ilegally invaded & occupied Afghanistan., bombed Syria and Libya. Then there's the ilegal invasion of Iraq, which not a NATO invasion core members of NATO were involved.
NATO has been the aggressor. The Russian military has downsized in recent decades while NATO has expanded and power in size building bases on Russia's boarder.
The Russian military is a defence organisation as shown by their failures in Ukraine while NATO is an offensive organisation not designed to defend but instead to project power ie invasion.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

You are out of this world dud. In the 90 there whas a big need of NATO bacause Russia didn't change, Russia and USSR are one and the same, they didn't make reforms, they didn't put new politicians, Yelsan whas the leader of the Socialist Soviet Rusia Republic, will Gorbaciov whas the general secretary, Yelten brake the USSR in order to be in power above Gorbaciov.
Invasion of Afganistan whas a must because the talibans refuse to give Sadam to USA and that mean they protected him, witch mean they are colaborating against USA. Even sooo the afgans prefered USA then the talibans or soviets.
In the 90 whas the decision of the Eastern Block to join NATO and EU to get protection against Russia, because Russia whas alwase like is today, but the west whas to blinde.
NATO is a defence organization the article 5 whas activated only afther the 11 September 2001. Even so in Iraq and Libia whas crule dictators who never respected the international law.
Russia wanted the Eastern Block to remain neutral and poor like S**ET in order to not have any word to say internationaly against Russia, SAME LIKE MONGOLIA TODAY (surounded by Russia and China).
IS MY COUNTRY DECISION THAT WE JOIN NATO, WE VOTED AND HAPPY WE ARE. RUSSIA IS JUST TO WEAK AND POOR TO BE ABLE TO CHALANGE THIS ALIANCE AND THEY WANT ALWASE TO HAVE AN ADVANTAVE AGAINST THEM BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE ECONOMY AND THE DEMOCRATY LIKE IN THE WEST.
Go and put your heat in a toilet.

[Drewtate]

@Alexandrubaschet08 the Russian-Afgan was was 1979 to 1989.
The Taliban offered to give Bin Laden to the US. No afgans were involved in 9/11, just Egyptians and Saudi Arabians. Bin Laden was funded & trained by the CIA when bush sr was vice president. The Bush & bin Laden family were friends & Bush Jr allowed the bin Laden family to leave America before the fbi could question them on 9/11. The only plane to take off after 9/11 was the bin Laden plane. Bin Laden began targeting America after the Gulf War in 91 when Bush Sr put us military bases in Muslim countries.
Russia through the 90s and eay 00s saw massive defence cut backs and 1/4 of Soviet military power was in Ukraine, of course the Ukrainians sold these weapons to America who gave them to allies in iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya and of course they ended up in the hands of the taliban, isis and alqueda.
Because of us intervention in iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan millions of innocent people are dead for no reason.
Russia doesn't have to challenge the us &NATO, they just have to wait until the us &NATO stops supporting Ukraine and leaves Ukraine hanging with millions of dead Ukrainians just like they did with the Syrians, libyians, afgans, Iraqis, Somalians and Vietnamese.

[Avicenna]

Ukraine is doing none of those things (you seem to have forgotten it's not a NATO country and therefore there is no "NATO mission to roll back Russian military advances"). Our involvement in the Ukraine-Russia war has increased the risk of nuclear war and Russia will no doubt take revenge on real US interests (Ukraine is not a US interest). And given that it and our government are filled with corrupt politicians, we don't know if the aid we have sent it has been embezzled (note that the US pays the Ukrainian central government budget).

Furthermore, by forcing Ukraine to continue to fight rather than negotiate a peace agreement, we risk the demographic destruction of the Ukrainian people.

[Drewtate]

It was warned and predicted 9 years ago
https://youtu.be/j6wcadydk3w?si=ckOAlmYithtIlkPk

[OddBeMe]

I love how you think you know what is or isn’t an “American interest”.

Just funny that the dictator who supported Trump the most is the behind the war you all hate. Just coincidence, I guess.

[Avicenna]

2016 called- it wants its "Russia Hoax" back. You embarrass yourself even more (if that's possible) by continuing to promulgate it despite it being completely debunked years ago (not that it ever made sense).

And as for me, yes, I can identify a US interest and see where there are none. Having served in a NATO unit and living over half of my life outside the US helps. But you're welcome to identify what US national interest (s) are in Ukraine.

by the way, here's an example of a real national interest- keeping Taiwan from being annexed by China since 90% of all high-end semiconductors are made there. But Pedo Joe, your Dear Leader, doesn't dare do anything about one of his family's paymasters.

[OddBeMe]

Russia hacked many election computers, dumbass, including in my home city in Texas.

Doesn’t mean they changed anything. They did buy social ads and create millions of bots to sway idiots like you.

Still…I wouldn’t call trumps election fraudulent. That would be unamerican of me. #2020election

[Filthy_Immigrant]

what fucking credit?

we been giving them FREE MONEY since their war with Russia even though it has nothing to do with us and they have and probably would never pay us back.

[OddBeMe]

Huh, and hunter hour by hour by Russia assassins. They literally can’t plan his schedule past an hiur

[Filthy_Immigrant]

Ok dude I didn’t understood a shit you said

[OddBeMe]

Sorry *hunted. Not hunter. He’s on the move 24/7 becuase putin has him as bounty #1. Not sure how much money he makes. I do know there’s corruption in Ukraine. But shit there’s corruption here.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

So if there's corruption here as well then why dont they send us money as well?

[OddBeMe]

No…why not support a growing democracy that it keeping Putin’s obvious aggression in check?

[Filthy_Immigrant]

Putin is not attacking us or any allie of ours. dont you think our government sticking their noses where it doesn't belong might inspired Putin to direct his aggression towards us?

like DMX once said, "Nosey People Get It Too".

seriously why you democrats care so fucking much about Ukraine

[OddBeMe]

Is it because Putin supports Trump? Or is it just a coincidence?

[Filthy_Immigrant]

could it be a coincidence that Putin didn't envade any country when Trump was around?

[KrakenAttackin]

I have been a student of geopolitics since the 80's, and I have to say I am done with Europe. NATO can have the Russians all to themselves.

Your China comment is odd, I don't see any correlation between the Ukraine and the PRC. Oil and the expansion into the South China Sea seems to be the PRC's big thrust.

[OddBeMe]

You were 10 in the 80s.

[KrakenAttackin]

No, I'm 54 not 44.

[DarkLegacy]

Talking bullshit again. It is their country that is invaded by Russia so they are supposed to be defending it. And they are getting a lot of money and weapons from NATO countries. We are even taking in Ukrainian refugees here in the UK.

[OddBeMe]

And that’s different from demanding other countries go to war over 9/11 how?

[llorando]

Credit for what? Being sent off to be slaughtered in a US proxy war defending land that's being snatched up by bought up corporations?

https://www.youtube.com/embed/fQ5tNtK6nWk

[OddBeMe]

Wow so much pro-fascist punks. Even Ivy League professors are disagreeing.

So…would the US just roll over if we were invaded by Russia?

[llorando]

Not supporting the Ukraine proxy war doesn't make one pro-fascist. Many of us simply don't support innocent Ukrainians being sent off to be slaughtered fighting in a US/NATO proxy that only serves to benefit defense contractors and other western corporations. How many innocent Ukrainians have to die before enough is enough, and we no long push for Ukraine to become a NATO member, which by the way has been a red line for Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Mitch McConnel admitted all this money were sending to Ukraine is going to American defense contractors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD6kvDHbIYY

[OddBeMe]

That’s not what’s happening though. Ukrainians are deciding for themselves to not be Russia’s proxy and fighting an invasion.

[llorando]

It is exactly whats happening, your too blind to see the US government is lying yet again to gain support for a war that serves not other purpose then to enrich defense contractors and western corporations while inflecting damage to Putin/Russia. US government lying about Ukraine is no different then when they lied about Vietnam and Iraq.

[msc545]

I don't know if they're getting enough credit or not, but they're sure as hell getting too much money of ours

[OddBeMe]

How so? You don’t like supporting democracies attacked by dictators?

[llorando]

Thing is, Ukraine's democracy went out the window when the Ukrainian government seized control of media outlets and banned opposing political opponents/parties. The money isn't even going to average Ukrainians, Mitch McConnel said so him self it's going to American defense contractors. It time we stop pushing to make Ukraine a NATO member in a failed proxy war, and let Ukraine remain neutral in exchange for the war ending. We didn't want the Soviet Union on our boarder during the Cuban missile crisis, and Russia doesn't want NATO on it's boarder.

[OddBeMe]

@llorando new democracies start rough. Hell we’re just 200 years old corrupt as fck.