Is it embarrassing that "European Disease Wiped Out 90% of Native Americans", the US wasn't stolen by skill, it was overpowered by Diseases?

[Anonymous]

[WindAtMyBack]

It's pretty well known that disease killed the majority of natives in the Americas. But I have never seen a number as high as 90%. Nobody knows for sure, but I've usually seen around 70-80%. That's still a large majority.

Also, even though much of the focus is on the US, the vast majority of deaths were in central and South America where they have far higher populations. Present day Mexico probably had ten times as many people as the US. So did parts of S America. Canada had maybe half as much population as the US. So the US and Canada combined only had a fraction of the population of Central and S America.

It happened very quickly. The diseases spread faster than the Europeans themselves. The native people traded with each other, so the native traders spread the disease from one population to the next. Most of the natives were probably dead before the Europeans even got there. Europeans landed on the coast, and native traders and migration did most of the rest.

There were also native populations that disappeared for unknown reasons, but it was not due to Europeans. For example the cliff dwellers in the southwest US completely disappeared, and nobody knows why.

The diseases also went the other direction. There were diseases in the Americans that got brought back to Europe. They were not as devastating, but still killed a lot of people.

There is an interesting north-south vs east-west theory. Climates and ecosystems tend to change more rapidly in the north-south direction than the east-west direction. This means that diseases could travel more readily east-west than north-south. With Eurasia extends mainly east-west, and the Americas extend mainly north-south. This could explain why Eurasians had more disease immunity than natives in the Americas.

[Skinhead-1979]

While it is indisputable that European diseases killed many 'Natives' when Europeans came to the shores of the Americas... in the end it has still been Conquest and Colonisation which has been the most damaging to Native American Societies and Cultures.

Columbus 'discovered' the Americas in 1492; almost instantly European diseases started to decimate Native American Populations... but by the late 19th, early 20 century, when all their land had been incorporated/ annexed by the US, and Native American people had been herded into 'Reserves'; the Native American population had become immune to European diseases centuries before that.

Europeans, however, were still being decimated in the thousands by American diseases like 'Yellow Fever' and 'Malaria'.

If people are being exposed long enough to new diseases, it will boost their immune systems and over time those diseases will become less deadly because their bodies will become much more adept in dealing with those diseases. Continuous colonisation into and conquest of Native American lands ensured that the native populations became first resistant and then as good as immune to the European diseases. New European Conquerors and Colonists continued to poor in throughout the centuries, and Americans diseases continued to 'decimate' the new comers.

[purplepoppy]

Does stealing by skill make it right?

[Asker]

Well sweetie, how'd you come up with that equation? If I were to steal your purse, "skillfully" or bend over and fart in your face "so hard" that you passed out and "then" I stole your purse, who's to say that one way is better than the other? I think the keyword you're missing here darling is the word "stealing", it's wrong - no matter how you look at it.

[on_my_knees]

@Asker An equation represents a mathematical expression. A question seeks information. As you can see, she asked a question, as indicated by the question mark. Maybe you need to get your eyes checked instead of defending people who died 100s of years ago.

[Tiktok_Broccoli_Girl]

@on_my_knees a hidden stroker represents open mindedness.

[OlderAndWiser]

Assuming that your claim is true, why should I be embarrassed about it?

[RavVid]

It is undoubtedly true that exotic diseases ravage naive populations. Same happened in Europe e. g. the Black Death plus several other plagues

In my country there is a Left wing narrative that Aborigines were deliberately infected with small pox. A big conspiracy is implied to the use of germ warfare.

The Left is going to try to promote a malign narrative as it always does.

The Left sound bites are just wrong. It could not have been as, when I looked it, the First Fleet voyage time well exceeded the incubation and quarantine time of small pox. Just not possible for the Left's narrative to be true.

However chicken pox never leaves the body and can reoccur as shingles. So most likely it was chicken pox that devastated the Aborigines. It doesn't make the dead any less dead or devastated communities any less devastated. A minor childhood disease became calamitous when relocated.

It is simply evil of the Left to make up malignant narratives. The results were bad enough to not attempt to make them worse.

I'd counsel to believe little of what the Left says.

[Drewtate]

Not just the us but central and south America a long with the Caribbean.

Truthfully by the time the English arrived diseases had been spread through the native populations by French and spainis traders and explorers as well as other natives. When the Purtians and others settled in New England they thought that God must have set the land aside for them because there was all this great fertile land waiting for them, plenty of timber and hunting game with very few natives with some abandonedvillages snd farms. But in reality about 10-15 years before the spainish and French exploers and traders had been in the area and had brought old world diseases and the local native population either died or left.

The America's were conquered by armies or diseases but by population replacement. Too many people came from Europe, Africa and Asia for the natives to stand against.

[KostasKouvalis]

Firstly, the US wasn't stolen because the US did not yet exist.

Secondly, no it's not embarrassing. Honestly, I have a difficult time believing those numbers, but that's for another questions. Europeans also contracted siphyllis and pink eye from Native Americans, so it's not like it was a one way street.

And surely biological warfare counts as skill. Also, half the European population was wiped out by plague brought over by Central Asians. Central Asians wiped US with disease, we wiped Natives with disease. Shit happens. But we also had better weapons too.

[NamerOfStars]

Well it might be- if it were true. But it's not. The standing nations and surrounding tribes were all but wiped out- there was no left to "steal it" FROM. It makes no sense to let good land go to waste. Most of the rest was legitimately purchased.

The bits that WERE stolen were taken almost exclusively as a result of, or attempt to avoid, war.

If you're going to engage in America-bashing, at least put a LITTLE effort in.

[NaultD]

It's a natural disaster so it's no one fault with the capability of health care at the time. Unless it was manipulated like "small pox blankets" which I remember being debunked.

It's more about broken contracts and deals that are egregious. Which in large part broken by illness and small pox blanket myth of said contracts. So taking advantage of the situation is another way of saying what you're saying. So I agree on that level.

[AviatorTom]

It is true that many of the indigenous people in the America's suffered and died from diseases brought by Europeans. But that was an accident, unplanned, and caused by ignorance. It wasn't chemical warfare, where the Europeans said, "Hey, let's go kill that tribe off with the flu."

There's no reason why people today should be embarrassed about things that happened centuries ago, that they had nothing to do with.

[OtterMan68]

I hate the word "stolen" in this context. The New World was conquered. Doesn't justify it, but stolen implies the Europeans sneaked over and someone stole it out from under the Natives.

Rome did not steal Gaul.

The Brits did not steal India.

The Belgians did not steal The Congo.

The Germans did not steal most of Europe.

[ohsheeT]

And we would have to bet it was the white man that brought the diseases in.

To this day anything that is man-made is poisoned I'm just saying that to be a smart-ass but it is true and yes you're right

[RebelinSteel]

It was originally mainly by accident.

what is embarrassing is that the question is about the US. Have a Google on the numbers killed in Mexico downwards, clue they dwarf the US by some magnitude.

[strateguy632]

No shame because did not need skill. the land was empty. the goal was never to kill the natives nor did they have control of the germs. Every detail in you question iS backward

[exitseven]

It is not embarrassing to me. My ancestors were in Italy until a hundred years ago

[Tomisworthless]

The ones that didn't die from diseases gave away their land through siding with US gov against rival tribes and poor negotiating. So ultimately they had a lack of wisdom, like you !

[nawtee_me]

And Covid which came from China killed people all over the world. What do you think will happen when we go to Mars? What will the Marsian diseases do?

[onedarkcloud]

That has been going on for eons Conquers throughout the ages introduce new diseases to the natives they conquer with no immunity. Your point is moot!

[Dargil]

I know you can verify that with peer-reviewed research.

[psychobabble]

Who said biological weapons don't take skill to use? They are very risky... They take all kinds of skill to use.

[Staximus]

Every country has been conquered at one time or another in history, I'm sure your country has it's own share of debacles in history

[RedInnocent69]

Historically disease has been an important socioeconomic force. I wouldn’t say embarrassing, just sad really.

[gorydetails]

Weeded out the weak. Just like aids will do to you

[Twalli]

Totally expected for anyone with a basic knowledge of epidemiology.

[MrGSpotHer]

Ah another think to blame the Europeans for I guess...

[dudegreat91]

Ofcourse they stole it by treachery and deceit

[BetaBucks]

Who should be embarrassed?

[abc3643]

I doubt that.

[noohair]

Embarrassing, NO!

[Anonymous]

Another embarrassment for the USA

[jahaims]

Nope