Should this guy have had access to a firearm?

[OddBeMe]

Now that he’s in prison we don’t have to worry about it. Little late.

Yes he should have had access to guns

No, he should NOT have had access to guns

[purplepoppy]

UK policy. Do not let the insane have guns. It's a really stupid idea

USA policy. Let the insane have big guns because 300 years ago some guys thought it was cool and convince them they can use it to take out tyrants.

So to answer the question yes because he's in America where rights are more important than commonsense.

[bluesparrow]

Are you talking about legal access or him just finding a gun?

[bluesparrow]

Black market, dark web, craiglist, friend, the list goes on and on. I have two unregistered guns. It's not all that difficult to fly under the radar.

[bluesparrow]

So what's your point about "access"? Should people have access to meth? Should we ban meth? Fentanyl? Heroin?

[MicahRaine]

@bluesparrow I agree. it's wildly easy to get illegal items lmao

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Why narrowing down this issue to one person, one condition only, let's follow the path leading to the roots of this problem I say. Let's do it, yes, again and again. Until it starts making sense for more people... Isn't it how History works? 😆

[OddBeMe]

Well that’s actually how laws work. Keeping guns from the mentally ill seems pertinent.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I understand that, it doesn't prevent me from wanting to get to the roots of the laws, or any system in general lol

[OddBeMe]

Sure but mentally ill…guns…. seems like a common sense law. Kinda like domestic violence or on the no fly list. None of which are regulated fully against gun ownership.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Meanwhile the very long investigation leading to the roots, yes, it is common sense. But when liberty is absolute, common sense suffers?

[OddBeMe]

Maybe. But funny how my wanting nuclear bomb suffers because it’s “dangerous”.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

hehe

[exitseven]

obviously he should not have access to firearms but it appears he got his rifle from some source that was not legal. The serial number was obliterated.

[OddBeMe]

Sure i haven't read that but i wouldn't be surprised. Either way tighening idiotic loopholes like gunshow or private sales and gun buybacks would help

[exitseven]

I have always thought that the gun show loophole was absurd.

[molonski2]

Well.. What would the gun lobby say? Ohh the more the merrier..

Bottom line , there are just wayyyyyyy too many guns of all types in the USA.

[OddBeMe]

Yeah…can’t do anything about tha- wait! Australia had a gun buyback program!

[molonski2]

We did , introduced by John Howard , who stood up to a powerful Lobby ( but nowhere near as powerful as USA of course ) .

[OddBeMe]

Very true. And his political career ended, along with mass shootings in Australia.

[molonski2]

NO , this was the highpoint , the people LOVED it , and he did a further 10 beyond this , being one of the longest serving Prime ministers , serving 3 terms ( virtually impossible ) .
But , yeah Howards high point of his prime minister ships , I'm an Aussie.

[OddBeMe]

I’ll defer to you. But I thought he (maybe the other guy) lost his next election after the gun restrictions. I only watched the John Oliver Daily Show piece about it…lol

[molonski2]

Yeah , it was early on..
And some people doubted he could do it , but when he stood up to them as they screamed at him , his popularity drastically increased.

[OddBeMe]

Cool. I think the same would happen here. Wed suddenly see people aren’t dying everyday by suicide or street crime and go “cool”.

[molonski2]

Yeah , but remember the cinema shooting? And the Lobby said " What killed him is no one had guns to respond " ..
So , just think about that , shooting into the dark.. against who?

[OddBeMe]

Ansolutely agree. And arming teachers? Dont they have enough to do besides weapons training? And even cops can only hit the target 30% of the time during emergencies.

[molonski2]

hahahahaha.. imagine " OddBeMe... where in the fck is your homework? " , after all , I've done for you... Bang / Bang / Bang / Bang.. " I felt I owed to him , didn't want to do it " ...

[msc545]

Maybe not, depending on what mental illness he had or has, how it was treated and with what methods, and the success of failure of those methods. Psychiatric hospitals and practitioners are kind of notorious for NOT reporting mentally ill people to anyone to keep them from having guns.

Sitting in the bushes with a rifle is not in and of itself a crime.

[MicahRaine]

No. It should also be noted that he did not have "legal" access to that firearm anyways. That's why banning guns is stupid. Anyone can still get a gun anywhere if they want to badly enough.

[Avicenna]

Considering he is a convicted felon, he wasn't legally allowed to have a firearm.

[OddBeMe]

But he did. So access to firearms are obviously a problem.

[Avicenna]

Given it’s already illegal, how would you prevent felons from getting firearms?

[OddBeMe]

Tighen up obvious loopholes.
In texas im able to "give to a freind" without background checks. But then also cutting down the amount of guns just on the street with a gun buyback

[Avicenna]

Cutting down on supply? I guess you haven’t learned anything from the “War on Drugs”.

I know you Texans think you’re the center of the universe, but I’ll humor you and assume that Texas’ laws are representative of every state’s. Let’s see if you’ve represented the law correctly and if requiring a background check keeps felons from acquiring firearms.

[Avicenna]

That would only be the case if there were no illegal sources of firearms for felons, yet we know there are. Here’s a hint- reducing supply would be at best temporary- if you drove up the price of illegal firearms you also increase the incentive to supply more of them in the pricier illegal market because selling prices are higher.

[Juxtapose]

America has had guns and even gun clubs in schools for a while without this type of thing happening. It's the cultural rot.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Let's define cultural rot then :)

[Juxtapose]

@Maybe_Maybe_not in the past kids were much more respectful and disciplined. Now they are shooting people.

That is cultural rot. We have had gun clubs and whatnot in school for a while and there was no problem.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Okay, how do you explain this change?

[Juxtapose]

@Maybe_Maybe_not civics being taken out & in general kids not being taught the American way of life.

[OddBeMe]

What is the “American way of life”?

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I overlooked this one as well

[Juxtapose]

It's respect for free speech & a destain for censorship that other countries simply do not have. It's about the ideals of the founding fathers and liberty in general. See the Federalist Papers & more.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Now that you say it, I wonder why this change even happened internally lol. I'm used to the idea that US are culturally influencing other countries, but not being influenced inside itself 🤔

[Juxtapose]

You can completely destroy a country's culture pretty easily by flooding it with enough foreigners in a short enough time.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

hahaha, I should have expected this point to appear somewhere, then, what are the thoughts, values and ideals of these immigrants who are impacting freedom of speech that much?

What is the song they sing? And while you answer, I'm gonna use a topless guy with long hair to flood my ears

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlNhD0oS5pk

[msc545]

bullshit.

[Juxtapose]

Well for example, people from South America are more comfortable with corruption in government because they are used to it and they think it is more normal for someone in power to favor their family. That right there is a big change in value from American culture.

In Denmark, you do not have free speech and they will be confused if they come here and see neo-nazis able to march. They will protest against that and want to restrict that freedom of speech because they don't understand it.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Logical point for Denmark (or any wealthy EU country probably), that's right and that's why I can't be in favor of free speech the way US means it. But I don't think US undergoes an influx of Danish or EU guys really, so this point shouln't apply 😅

Latam guys then, in relation to corruption practices, you think Latinos are really in a position to influence US values regarding favoritism? I don't know, I don't have intel on that aspect

[Juxtapose]

I am showing you why too much immigration in general is bad. It destroys cultural hegemony.

I think they are considering we had a half black president.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

we had this topic before, I don't think cultural hegemony is viable, it only lasts for a time and then the next cycle kicks in, another version of the same program, with various updates

[OddBeMe]

1) Federalist papers aren’t law.
2) culture isn’t law, as laws change with the times.

[Juxtapose]

We the people have the right to dictate who comes into this country or not. People who do not share our values do not belong here and we should organize who gets in here appropriately.

I say if enough people like you try to make the process fucked up and flood the country with a bunch of people who don't share our values? We shut down the border entirely. No NOBODY gets in and we do what Poland does and execute people who try to break through the border.

[Juxtapose]

*Now NOBODY

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

"People who do not share our values do not belong here"

There is a problem though, when you say our values, it's very much undefined and actually unrealistic, the array of values seems wide in US, wide and conflicting. So, when there is such a mix of incompatible values at play, how would you proceed reasonably then?

[Juxtapose]

@Maybe_Maybe_not I can actually provide you with a sample of values that the military was kind enough to provide for foreign students.

www.162wing.ang.af.mil/.../

[Juxtapose]

Also there's this resource:

usahello.org/life-in-usa/culture/american-values/

Honestly people who say America does not have a distinct culture are really not paying attention.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

here is the fun I talk about, written in plain, in your second document:

"An American might read this list of values and feel it does not represent their own values. Stating general values for a whole country is complicated."

... Voilà, lol

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Who's paying not enough attention now, my dear juxtapose 😆

[Juxtapose]

@Maybe_Maybe_not exceptions prove the rule.

Boom.

[Juxtapose]

And yes I did read that and I did take that into consideration before posting this. Not every American is going to be the same, America is bigger than Europe iirc.

But we do have commonalities among Americans that the vast majority of us share.

[Juxtapose]

And flooding the country with foreigners would most certainly change everything.

[Juxtapose]

And I must reiterate again, exceptions prove the rule. They do not disprove the rule.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

[Juxtapose]

@Maybe_Maybe_not not really an argument but okay.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Above is just for fun, I can't run steady on arguments without having fun, else I'm bored quickly lol

We have no grounds to say that the exception you see is really an exception and to what extent exactly, we can assume that there are commonalities in a society or else this society cannot exist, but the extent of these commonalities cannot be predicted by numbers either.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Unless we're talking about autarchy, societies such as primitive tribes or specific cases like North-Korea

[Juxtapose]

@Maybe_Maybe_not I have been all over the country, from west to east, from south to north.

I can assure you that certain things such as how Americans value space, timeliness, freedom and salon holds true throughout the entire country.

In Japan for example throughout the entire country you will have proper ways to address people. In America it is a lot less formal and unless you are a doctor and whatnot, almost everybody is addressed in a similar way.

"You."

Meanwhile Japan has many different words for that that depend on your position in their hierarchy

[Juxtapose]

*and so on

Not salon

[Juxtapose]

Here are some basics on American culture. ↗

[Juxtapose]

"Nationalism

The majority of Americans are proud of their country. Many feel patriotic and believe the United States is the best country to live in. Americans appreciate the rights they have. Many take pride in the United States being a strong and influential country.

Examples:

At many schools, children will learn and recite the Pledge of Allegiance. A verse to show respect and promise support to the United States.

During most sporting events, the crowd will sing “God Bless America.” This is a song to show patriotism.

Displaying the American flag is very common in homes and businesses."

NOWHERE DID THAT SAY EVERY SINGLE LAST American HAS TO HAVE THOSE VALUES.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Many will be proud, many will also look above the level of pride to understand what really is a country when you strip the concept of nation off of ideals and illusions surrounding it.

[Juxtapose]

You can philosophically pontificate until your own head is up your ass and you say you don't know if anything is real except yourself. That is not helpful and doesn't really mean anything in the long run.

A country is pretty easy to understand and you can easily identify the differences between America and Japan just by spending a few hours in each.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Oh this is not just philosophy, it is just a crossroads I can't avoid, when mixing philosophy, sociology and psychology, I can then only contemplate relativity. That is, when I'm not militant, when I have no cause nor agenda, but I have ones, I just don't express them in this very instant :D

[Juxtapose]

I'll just say I really question the sincerity of anyone who thinks there is not a Country-Wide distinction between Japan and America.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I would question it as well, the cultural differences are pretty big lol

[Snakeyes7]

He is a convicted felon who shouldn't be allowed to have access to a gun but he got it anyway. If anything, he proved that the anti-gun control people were correct.

[OddBeMe]

How does the rest of the world do it then?

[Snakeyes7]

They don't. Even North Korea has a black market as totalitarian as it is. If someone wants a gun there will always be a place for them to go to get one.

[msc545]

Convicted of what?

[gatixek710]

I’ve been saying we need to ban Democrats from owning guns for years.

[bluesparrow]

LMFAO

[Anonymous]

he should've been checked for Trump Derangement Syndrome first

[Anonymous]

Have you read the second amendment?

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!

[Drewtate]

Another failure by the fbi no doubt

[OddBeMe]

So shutter the FBI? Or make it better?

[Drewtate]

Yes shutter the gestapo and kgb too lol

[mandyfire98]

Fuck no.