Since laws dont stop criminals, whats the point of having ANY laws?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Like people say gun laws won't make a difference bc criminals will break them anyway. Well criminals can break ANY laws! So why do we have any laws in the first place?

If good people just do the right thing & bad people do the wrong thing anyway (including good people rightly punishing bad people for doing wrong things), then laws do seem totally irrelevant... so why have any?

Do we REALLY need a law for this?

Updates

1 y

If laws are not to stop people from doing bad things, they're only to punish afterwards... then why do people use "criminals will not follow laws" as a reason to not make a law against a bad thing?

[razelove]

The point of laws is to punish those you for actions you deem unacceptable in society, and remove them from society. Like speeding laws are meant to prevent driver and pedestrian deaths, even if cars are much safer, buildings, sidewalks, and the human body haven't substantially changed.

The point of criminalizing drugs is to raise the price and profit margin *cough* I mean they are substances which are addictive and dangerous so by being more expensive police departments can get more funding that local and state aren't willing to fund by getting drugs. Unless they're cut off at the supplier punishing the users is useless (get it).

Tax laws are there to make sure our government doesn't have to work as hard to fuck us both coming and going. Etc Etc

[lightbulb27]

to have a consquence for selfish and wrongful acts.

That's what all the laws come down to... mostly... you have a right to your space, safety (e. g. cost).

we don't teach enough responsibility in this society, honor, integrity, self control. we are "too" free.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So to fix being too free there should be more laws in exchange for more safety, like to make kids safer? That makes sense ig

[lightbulb27]

more laws don't fix anything, so much. Maybe if it was related to training/parenting standards.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

If laws don't fix anything then I'm back to first question of why have them at all. We have laws about parenting to protect children from abuse & neglect. Do u think those laws don't fix anything, or do u just mean they aren't enough & we need something else extra too?

[lightbulb27]

Have to have laws, else anything goes. You wouldn't live long on the road without laws. Do we need more laws there. no, we need to enforce what we have. We may needs laws or law changes around rights to drive/training/retraining. I'd argue refine... because it's dangerous.
Parenting - I don't know the laws. I suspect we need more education and training, maybe laws. This is a big cost to society and life. open to discussion.
pick your domain and explore it. I'm not a lawyer...

[Thatgirlyouhate33]

The idea of laws ARE to stop people from doing them. In a few ways.

1. As a deterrent. If you knew that if you got caught stealing both your arms would get cut off, id wager there would be a whole lot less stealing going on.

2. If you're in prison, it kind of prevents those things from happening again. And if you get the death penalty it definitely prevents you from doing it again.

So i reject your premise that it doesn't prevent.

Also you mentioned "good people punishing others" Thats kind of what you need laws for. Unless you want some world where vigilantism is okay.

Which in some possible world i could see that working. Probably not this world though.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

That's not a premises, that's the premises I'm asking about. I've heard people say these things & I don't understand why.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Not my* premises

[katiesmuff]

The vast majority of criminals are caught! Thats why

[strateguy632]

I nicw opinion and belief assuming crime is rare.
My opinion is the ones caught are the tip of the iceberg

[strateguy632]

The answer is to punish.

A law "don't steal" has that problem.

A law "punish theives with 3 to 7 years prison" has purpose.

Similarly people say a law forbid abortion, "Dont abort" won't stop all abortions. The trick is they hid which law. Dont abort has that problem.

But a law "punish clinic staff who do abortion one year longer than theives, 4 to 8 years prison" has a purpose.

[strateguy632]

About update the answer is the law is about using the gun!
Liberals wanna outlaw OWNING a gun! See a different verb?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So the law "don't own a gun if X" has that problem, but that law plus "or else Y punishment" would have a purpose? I guess that makes sense. Do u think making it harder to own/get a gun if u have certain risk factors like a history of violence or very bad mental state, would be good laws? Or would they just make things more dangerous for everyone, like the laws banning abortion have done?

[strateguy632]

No, because the problems are using the gun.
you worry about danger. Abortion is danger to helpless HUMAN fetus.
Not her body so not her choice.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Maternal mortality rates jumped more than 50% in states where abortion was banned. Are girls and women not HUMAN to you?

You can't use a gun if you don't have one. That seems like a dumb reason to say it's bad law. Okay though, what law would you suggest to prevent people with high risk factors from USING guns?

[uncleBobbyb77]

Govern-ment=Control-Mind/Mind Control. A Republic is supposed to honor the rights of every individual and thus any statute or legislation that violates or contradicts any of our rights is null and void on its face. Thing is it is not assumed anyone is standing on their rights unless they are belligerently demanding them. We have laws to control, enslave, and monetize those who either don't know their rights or won't fight for them. There's lots of money and power for those who disguise organized crime under the guise of governmental authority. Fact is the whole concept of government is immoral and anyone that believes in the moral legitimacy of government is a fool or a bad person. Learn your rights and prepare to fight for them. It is necessary as no one can utilize and stand on your rights for you. Only you have that true authority

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

It looks like an incentive to re-explain the usefulness of Justice? If I get the question right, so What is Justice

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

update: You seem to be attacking one agenda in particular, on the grounds of reasoning, in a very, very convoluted way 😅

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Do u think laws are the only way to get justice?

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

My instinctive response is yes, but I'm interested in, if you have some more ways to talk about

[GOLDFISH_smile]

I don't have a problem with laws as a concept. I do think there's a major flaw when there's multiple options for punishment for breaking laws & one of the options is just money, or when none of the options work to rehabilitate lawbreakers, or when there's a law that keeps getting broken even tho it has right consequences & still nothing is done to try & figure out why or how to prevent more people from breaking that law in future...

[GOLDFISH_smile]

I don't think laws should be all end all of justice, but I do think they're useful. That's why I don't understand people who say law won't do any good just bc criminals will break them

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Then I completely agree with the idea that Justice is imperfect, despite its good intents. I see laws, a bit like science, as ongoing process to discuss instead of a set in stone situation. So, the one problem I have with Justice is not justice itself, it's our relative inability, as citizens, to participate Justice's evolution

[MrGSpotHer]

Well there would be no jails if laws didn't exist then I'd hate to see the outcome there's more people who would act wrong just because of the laws they don't, would be total chaos if there was no laws or police even if they don't always work how we want it's better than just being lawless don't you think?

[Anonymous]

Most people obey the law most of the time. And the law sets a standard for everyone to live by.
And the police try to uphold the standard. For everyone, including criminals.

The alternative is anarchy where everyone just does as they please and no-one can say it's right or wrong. And then we don't have society anymore.

[AviatorTom]

Laws have two main purposes...

1 Define a set of rules that most people follow

2 Define punishment for those people who break the rules

[exitseven]

At least with laws we supposedly have the ability to lock up law breakers. If you no longer lock up law breakers, then having laws is a waste of time ans so are the courts.

[RebelinSteel]

What prevents your neighbours or a person in the street, attacking you with a sword or firearm?
Why do they not do it?
why do people on the whole not drive around at 150mph

[GOLDFISH_smile]

The fact that most people are not bad and don't want to hurt you or themself. I assume the law isn't the only or the most important reason that YOU don't attack people with deadly weapons or drive extremely recklessly?

[RebelinSteel]

The law is one of the reasons I avoid breaking speed limits, conditions is another, however on a fairly car free motorway or dual carriageway then I would do 140mph or so.
Without a law, you could easily kill your neighbour and take over their house, or anyone who had a house you like.
Remember saying we would not is thinking from a point where it’s illegal, if it’s not illegal.

Without laws it is anarchy.
Even wars are fought with an element of the rule of law.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

I personally wouldn't kill my neighbor because I think that's a bad thing to do. Idgaf about laws, I would still not kill them especially not just to take their house. Wtf. Are you talking hypothetically from the pov of someone without morals, or is this how u actually think about stuff?

[RebelinSteel]

Have you studied history, things like the Anarchy, the 30 years war etc, the impact of the breakdown of society?
Hypothetically based on your question.

We have laws and all civilisations have had laws, without them it is anarchy.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So u think we need laws bc without them is always EVENTUALLY anarchy, which is always very bad? Okay. I understand that argument it was just the way u tried to explain it at first that rlly didn't make sense.

[RebelinSteel]

Yes without laws you would see civilisation breakdown. Someone walking into your house killing anyone not capable of working and selling you all in to slavery.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Sure, maybe eventually. Definitely fuckung not immediately tho.

[RebelinSteel]

Definitely immediately, you see it in war zones, after major disasters, the amount of looting, where life becomes negligible, remember you still have a load of bad people that are only restrained by the law, without it, well they can do anything. Yes good people would take a while but those who are very bad to those that are borderline good / bad, would have nothing stopping them.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

War zones are very different. Do you really think those people would act like that around their neighbors and family and friends, in their OWN home? Immediately? No.

[RebelinSteel]

Yeah, I’ve seen how a council estate is like during rioting.

[Anonymous]

laws set a standard of morality in which the population must comply

it won't stop criminals but it let's everyone know who to punish for breaking them

[Agape93]

To make afraid the ones who fear consequences, and to control

[DrPepper12]

Because civilization depends on a government monopoly on violence and as such other agents of violence are already a threat to civilized society.

[Kaneki05]

Because it does. Without those it becomes purge and we've get what the purge is.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Have u watched the purge movies? A big plot point is that most people weren't that fucked up so the government had to step in and make the worse stuff happen.

[Kaneki05]

I've watched all Purge including the series. And that's wrong.
You missed the point of what the government was trying to control in the first place, and missed the point of what happens in Forever.
Purge for the government was meant to cull those were homeless, but as the films show the crimes extended beyond just that which the government didn't want and was actively trying to stop.

The entire irony of Purge is they tried to control a scenario which there was no control. Leading to all the problems with the system. Which was due to the no laws the exact thing your question is about.
The government needs laws otherwise forever happens.

[GlowUpGirly5]

Why don't you do something about it instead of whining under a faceless fish account?

[In_Trance]

Segregation and revenue