Should criminals have rights?

[HawkPerception]

Criminals who murder, rape, break into your house and threaten you with weapons, steal from shops while threatening with weapons, etc.

Yes

No

Updates

11 mo

The scenario is that they are 100% guilty. There is no question of whether they did it or not.

[Chazmatazz269]

Yes, but their rights do not supersede those of law abiding citizens. If you try to rob, hurt or k*ll someone, you forfeit your rights and my rights to defend myself, my family and my property thereby supersede yours. Full stop.
Any citizen who suggests otherwise should have to personally house the violent criminals they defend, including politicians.

[HawkPerception]

Thank you. Someone with common sense 🙏🏼

[Dongie]

Yes, very restricted rights like to breathe and be fed in humane conditions. For the rest of their lives while they work 60 hours a week.

[HawkPerception]

So if someone killed your loved one, they deserve to be fed for the rest of their lives?

[Dongie]

If it's up to me, sure, but they would work hard nearly every day for it. No work, no eat. They'd work. If it was solely up to me, I'd like to say that's how I'd be. Not a killer.

[Dongie]

What's your stance on it, Hawk?

[HawkPerception]

Criminals don't deserve rights. If you kill someone without a good reason, if you rape, if you break into someone's house and threaten them, you should know that you now have no rights.

[Dongie]

Maybe the death penalty immediately would end these types of crimes.

[Dongie]

Oh, and with no rights, you wouldn't house or feed? I'm trying, but I'm not sure how you mean rights.

[HawkPerception]

I mean if I was to kill them in self defense when they break into my home and threaten me, it should not be considered breaking the law, because they were the ones who forfeited their rights

[Dongie]

I saw a YouTube short the other day where this man came into a yard and grabbed a 7 - or 8 year old girl and started off with her. She was screaming, and her 12 year old brother saw what was happening. He grabbed his slingshot and bounced a rock off his head. The girl broke loose and ran only to have the predator give chase. The boy caught him in the chest, which knocked him down. He got up and fled the scene. He was caught a little later, and he is seeing the boys' parents for 20k for medical expenses.

[Dongie]

*suing

[OlderAndWiser]

If the legal rights you have are dependent upon whether you have been accused of a crime, they you are one false accusation away from having no rights.

[HawkPerception]

I'm not talking about someone being accused. I'm talking about a scenario where there is evidence that you 100% committed the crime.

[OlderAndWiser]

There may be evidence that I pulled out a gun and killed Tony Soprano, but that doesn't mean I committed murder. Perhaps I acted in self defense.

[HawkPerception]

Well I can't win a debate with the lawyer so I'll let it go 😂

[OlderAndWiser]

Once a person is found guilty by a jury. I'm okay with sending them to Devil's Island!

[HawkPerception]

I don't disagree with you though. Intention matters for sure. If it was self-defense, then it's justified.

But in cases where...

Scenario: Someone kills my mom in cold blood for absolutely no good reason, and I end up getting revenge on them and killing them gruesomely, I don't think I deserve to jail or any punishment. That's where I disagree with the legal system. Their sense of justice is flawed.

That's just my opinion though

[HawkPerception]

To go to****

[OlderAndWiser]

What if you were mistaken about the identity of the killer. . ?

[HawkPerception]

Again, I'm not talking about a scenario where I'm pointing the finger. I'm talking about a scenario where they 100% committed the crime.

Ex. If they did it right in front of me or there's video evidence.

[Syntosi]

Yes. Even if you dont care about humans, or morals, or the criminals in question, the fact remains that if these people dont have rights then nobody does.

Simply put, if you allow the government to pick and choose who has rights then you give them a loophole that they can exploit to take away the rights for anyone they want and you lose your rights to stop them. They can always find excuses or make up lies for why you qualify for having your rights removed.

[Syntosi]

A scenario where they are 100% guilty? First of all, that is a nonsensical scenario but whatever. Lets pretend that everyone is 100% guilty. Whats the purpose of prison? Presumably its rehabilitation since at least some of these people will at some point be released and re-enter society. If your treatment of them in prison leads to them committing more crimes in the future then I honestly think its both counter productive and quite silly since you are putting yourself in danger.

Even in this very contrived situation it is still in everyone's best interest for everyone to have rights.

[HawkPerception]

How is it a nonsensical scenario? There are tons of cases when criminals are caught on camera breaking into a home, stealing from a grocery store, etc.

What's nonsensical is your statement

[Syntosi]

We hear all the time about falsely imprisoned people and the point I am most worried about is not about people making a mistake but rather how this can be intentionally abused. This is something a potential dictator would drool over as they plan on how to overthrow the nation and establish their personal corrupt kingdom.

[HawkPerception]

Look into El Salvador and what they did with criminals

[Syntosi]

Sure.

1: That has not produced any desirable results such as reduce recidivism rates.
2: It has hit the national prestige of the nation and damaged its relationships with other nations.
3: The most high-profile story about CECOT AKA their infamous prison is that they had to send back Kilmar Abrego Garcia due to USA falsely sentencing and sending him there.
4: Most of the images I have seen of CECOT is just politicians using them for their own political benefits such as when Marjorie Taylor Greene went down there and lined up a bunch of prisoners to take pictures with her in an attempt to boost her popularity as if they were props.

CECOT is a good example of how stupid this whole concept is since we have everything from falsely imprisoning to the government just using them as a photo opportunity and probably also jailing their political opponents but I have not looked into that part so I can't actually comment.

[andreasderjuengere]

They must have rights. Where some of these rights need to be limited or de-activated.

Reason: history knows of cases where criminals had been treated inhumanely without the need to do so.

No matter how ''bad'' a person had acted earlier - it's still a human.

If we others want to prove to be 'better' than we must honour their dignity.

[onedarkcloud]

They already have more rights than lawful citizens just look at California shit cities. The criminals are running the cities

[dustybiker2]

In America everyone has rights. It is what makes it America.

[DryGermanGuy]

Unless you're in L. A., of course... :-o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfQcD7ZLWL0

[HawkPerception]

So if someone killed/tortured your loved one, they deserve rights?

[dustybiker2]

@DryGermanGuy LA the new grey area.

@HawkPerception Of course that is horrific. If I wasn't allowed to kill them myself You have to grasp this is America. We aren't barbarians. They get a trial and then death. Hopefully.
I'm not dem or repub, I float the middle.

[abc3643]

Citizenship does not end because of criminality. You can be just as patriotic behind bars or not. Ask President Felon about that.

[exitseven]

They should have certain legal rights but should not be allowed to own firearms or vote

[SmokinAces2000]

If you are falsely accused of a crime would you want your rights just taken away?

[HawkPerception]

We're not talking about false crimes. We're talking about crimes where you 100% did them

[SmokinAces2000]

Well then that would depend on the crime and what rights are being taken away

[AngryCarl2]

Of course, but with limitations. A citizen has rights but also responsibilities.

[Panthero80]

Under the constitution of the United States, everyone has the right to due process.

[queenofcardio]

They are still people... limited rights