Is the liberal versus conservative divide manufactured by the fake news/fake education system?

[Anonymous]

Yes

No

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

I would say the source is a bit more obvious than that. The news shows and historical education we receive is really the farthest branches of the tree that causes so much of this divide. In truth, everyone wants the same thing: everyone wants a prosperous society of happy people thriving in the best way possible. The ideas of how to do that are different on each political side, and politicians are definitely closer to the source than news stations, and even then I’m not sure they’re the true source.

[Asker]

Even if people were taught the reality of how the world works in history, you'd have crazy idealistic who think they're the Gandhi who's going to change human nature

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

What’s wrong with letting them believe that? People have changed the world before, why not again?

[Asker]

No they haven't. that's a myth. progress is the enlargement and relaxation of morals. almost never stricter morals.

[Asker]

I mean morals are spread over a larger area. that's what Gandhi did. he spread watered down values over a large area. he didn't change anything

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Yeah, and morally we used to think it was okay to fuck kids as long as they consented in Ancient Greece and Sparta. You sure “strict morals” is the hill you want to die on?

[Asker]

what some societies thought was right or wrong doesn't matter to me. idealists didn't change that. they created that. the enlightenment was an egoistic movement that prioritized what was good for the individual above ideas of right and wrong

[Asker]

a good example of the evils of idealism is ancient Egypt. where men sat at home weaving while women went out to conduct business. in reality, women aren't built for stress, and men are. nobody really cares about "all things being possible", we care about what's truly ideal, what's real.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Men aren’t built for “stress” they’re built for war. If you want to get really ancient, look at our primate relatives: the chimps are a patriarchal society, violent with a single male leader. Bonobos are a matriarchal society with sex provided to kind and gentle males in orgies and violent males shunned entirely. I think I know which I would rather live in, wouldn’t you?

[Asker]

That's nonsense. There are no males who use violence that are well tolerated in chimp societies. That being said, war is inevitable. Shots fired are really self defense. If you never defend yourself you'll just be stolen from, abused, lied to, and deceived. I'm sure if you did a study chimps would be better at detecting lies and deception leading to increased violence.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

The most violent male is the most dominant male with access to the most female chimps

[Asker]

wrong

[Asker]

just ask yourself why females like tall men. it's always because they are more capable as at defending themselves. and that doesn't just mean against other violent threats. it includes beating up liars, scammers, etc. Think about how Christianity spread so widely among women with their emphasis on punishing liars and cheaters WITH VIOLENCE

[Asker]

if you cheat a chimp out of food it thinks it deserves (because they're socialist animals) they'll get violent and rip you apart. some white colonists noticed that whenever they traded items to one native, within hours it would be divided up between 10 of them. in jail, the first thing you're asked is to share your food. you just got there, so you don't really need it. and the threat of violence is there to make sure you share and are honest

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

You commenting about the violent qualities of chimps really isn’t detracting from my argument

[Asker]

and your communistic fantasy just isn't reality. you're describing a world where there's no power, no ownership, nothing to defend and nothing to care about

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

For the monkeys? Yeah, they’re not smart enough to know that, but you’re using “morals” in the same way the chimps use violence. If anything, it just sounds like an excuse to hate

[Asker]

Self-Defense is a necessary part of life. Hate begins when someone lies and cheats and deceives

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Yeah, and whoever told you that “strict morals” save the world deceived you so you would hate all the same people they do, and bc you don’t know any better, you believe it

[Asker]

Of course SPECIFIC morals are better than wide spread watered down values. The difference? it highglights your natural differences with others. It's much better for the idealists who prioritize unity to say the highest value is love and that's all that matters. As if everyone doesn't love different things.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

So what? You love murdering kids or something? You think that’s a real form of love?

[Asker]

I can't really comment on that. Because part of human nature is to find other peoples moral systems wrong. I personally think its extremely wrong but it was also extremely normal in cities like Carthage, and if it werent for Rome/Greece conquering the middle east it might still be done today

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Humans are indeed hierarchal thinkers, but very few morals have changed throughout human history

[Asker]

I disagree, there are significant differences between various cultures. As herodotus pointed out, the Ancient Egyptians thought cleanliness was better than being handsome. So they circumcized men, shaved their heads, etc. They also had inverted gender roles where men stayed home to weave and do household duties while women went out to conduct business. This is sort of recorded in the old testament too when it tells you how Joseph and his owner were concerned with household affairs. Very strange morals.

[strateguy632]

No, because main stream media IS the side of anti-conservative.