Do you think it is rational to support abortion if you think it's murder?

[marish01]

"I think abortion is murder but I support it. It is not immoral to murder a human being." How does this sound?

[ohsheeT]

Well I am pro-life for me and for me only

Because those are my beliefs what other people believe is up to them

I can also say that if I was walking past an abortion clinic and there was a lady trying to get in and people were bullying her because of what she was doing I would stand in front of that lady and take her to the door I would open the door for her I would look deep into her eyes and I would say this is your choice I don't know all the circumstances but this is something you're going to have to do with all your life can you do that.

I would not let her get bullied or beat up because of the way other people feel or think it is her body her soul her spirit her mind her heart her problem whatever happened to her for whatever reasons she wants an abortion that's between her and God I will not judge her I will not create drama. But I will protect her so she doesn't get hurt just because of what other people think or what other people feel about her...
When a woman gets an abortion it has to be the hardest thing in the world that she has ever done in her life and that will probably ever do in her life and she will think about it each and every day. .. that pain that weight has to be unbearable but that is her choice for what she's going to do I could not tell her she's right or she's wrong all I can do is tell her God bless you I hope you know what you're doing and you can't change it once it's done.

[marish01]

Is it ok that God will send her to hell?

[ohsheeT]

It's between her and God

[marish01]

So you are indifferent?

[Friendlybro79]

It's rational to say you don't agree with abortion, and if you find yourself in a position that you didn't plan on getting pregnant, to not get an abortion.

It would be logical and rational to know you don't have to understand why other people don't agree with you, and allow them to make their own decisions alongside a medical professional.

It would be rational to think a woman should be allowed to save her own life if a situation arises where a complication happens.

It would also be rational to learn the statistics around abortion to understand why and when most abortions happen.

It would also be rational to really ask yourself if your mom, sister, wife, girlfriend, daughter was raped, would you really be ok telling a rape victim to be happy your pregnant, and have this rapists child, care for it, love it, and financially support it. Then think what if this girl was say 13.

It would also be rational to say if I want to stop other people from having abortions because I don't care about anything I said above, then you should also do more to stop gun violence since there's a chance this baby that was born will be shot dead in a school because most pro-lifers are conservatives and don't care to do anything about school shootings. Leading cause of death in kids is being killed by a gun.

[marish01]

"It would be rational to think a woman should be allowed to save her own life if a situation arises where a complication happens."
Sure. But how does that case justify other women killing their unbirn babies?

[marish01]

"It's rational to say you don't agree with abortion, and if you find yourself in a position that you didn't plan on getting pregnant, to not get an abortion."
So, I think abortion is murder and I would never have it. But since other people approve if abortion then it's fine. They are free to murder. Why would this bother me. After all murder is ok.

[marish01]

"if your mom, sister, wife, girlfriend, daughter was raped, would you really be ok telling a rape victim to be happy your pregnant, and have this rapists child, care for it, love it, and financially support it"
I don't have a wife or girlfriend nor do I plan to ever have one. If I think abortion is murder, it is a human being no matter which woman holds the fetus.

[666dangerouswoman]

Yes because letting a woman bleed to death because she can't naturally give birth for one reason or another is perfectly OK just so little junior lives but then he would grow up without a mother

[marish01]

@666dangerouswoman you act as if childbirth ultimately results women's death lol

[Friendlybro79]

What abouting my point doesn't change my point I made.

[666dangerouswoman]

Ugh no that's not what I meant I meant in cases where the woman for one health reason or another cannot naturally give birth, like miscarriages. There are other conditions which can mess up your ability to give birth so much that if you go along with it you will most likely die, look it up.

[Friendlybro79]

@marish01 You act as if women just want to have abortions and kill babies when that isn't true either. You can just not have an abortion if you become pregnant. You get to live by your morals. Abortion is not for only one reason and it's gotta be (I can only imagine) one of the toughest decisions a person can make. Stop acting like it's a black and white thing. It's complicated and the choice needs to be there. Choice means they can also keep the baby. Also how many times are we going to argue the same point lol. Just don't have an abortion and your life is fine. Stop worrying about other people's business

[marish01]

@666dangerouswoman and?

[marish01]

Do you expect me to support the choice of abortion when I think it is murder?

[666dangerouswoman]

And? You're literally proving that you don't care at all about a woman's life. If you did care you would think about what you said. I honestly wish I wasn't a woman sometimes. Because I live in a world where men's lives and children's lives are both above a woman's. I'm not saying children's lives aren't important. They are. I just don't think it's ok to use religion as an excuse to let a woman die a potentially painful preventable death. Murder goes both ways

[Friendlybro79]

@marish01 "Do you expect me to support the choice of abortion when I think it is murder?"

Just adding in here. No one expects you to support it. For yourself especially, people understand your sentiment. You don't have to support abortion because you see things in black and white. That's ok for you and people can respect your personal decisions. Nobody is trying to change your opinion. If you can't understand others opinions, then just let it be and move on. Live your life as you see fit. Pontificating over and over again to people that don't care to change your mind is pointless. That said, people that don't agree with abortion should just not have one ever and leave other people alone and mind their damn business. If you're closed off, mind is set, then stop going back and forth about this. You're completely entitled to your opinion as are others. I for one am glad my family member was allowed to live because if she couldn't get the care she needed, say like in Texas, she would have absolutely died. It was horrific, horrible, and she isn't happy about the decision. Since then, she was given a second chance at life, instead of her and her baby both dying, she got to birth two other healthy children. You can say what about the baby... The baby didn't have a chance at all. Texas would have let my family member die. This is a problem and why choice needs to be available. I'll say it again, giving the women the right to choose, doesn't take your right to your beliefs.

[abbyjgriffin98]

I mean, not really. Look, I'm pro-life. I used to get really angry about abortion. Then I realized, some things are out of my control and there's no reason to be so angry about it. There's really nothing wrong with being pro-life or pro-choice. Pro-life people, like me, believe what women are killing are babies. Pro-choice people do not. Therefore, we never really will see eye to eye. But I think if a person says they'd never have an abortion because it's murder, but other people can, it doesn't really make any sense. I feel like the only reason they do this is because they're pro-life, but they don't want pro-choice people to be angry with them for being so. To me, you're never going to make everyone happy. So believe whatever you want to believe. They don't have to like it. But they can't do anything about it.

[MissTrix]

People can support anything and it was so bad to hear that word thrown around so easily during the us election!

Is it murder yes! Can you support someone asking that choice... Yes easily for a single woman who is alone and a teen.

So much easier then supporting a criminal who kills because of a need of money or vengeance.

Most TV shows or movies involve murder or wanting to kill someone for some reason. Why not support a woman altering her own life with murder?

[marish01]

Since there are murder scenes in movies then it is ok for women to actually kill their own offsprings?

[MissTrix]

Never said it was ok!

[marish01]

"Why not support a woman altering her own life with murder?"

[Jamie05rhs]

@marish01 I think she was being sarcastic.

[marish01]

Ah ok. But pro choice people say such thing all the time

[Anonymous]

While I am against abortion for moral, family, religious, equal justice, and demographic reasons.

It is possible to support legally killing someone particularly in self-defence.

This is the case for abortion to save the life of the mother.

However unless you want to abandon laws against murdering people who simply inconvenient you even when its your fault they are a burden (such as it was your choice to have sex). Then Abortion is an unequal application of the law unfairly discriminating against those who lack the ability to speak for themselfs.

Thou as we see in many abortion videos they clearly try desperately to save their little lives.
In my judgement abortion is the most henius crime possible. For there is no greater betrayal of a more innocent a victim by the one who was suppose to protect them.

[marish01]

'It is possible to support legally killing someone particularly in self-defence"
The rarest case of abortion

[DJB72]

Either killing a pregnant woman is a double homicide, in which case the baby inside her is a life, making abortion actually murder

Or

Killing a pregnant woman is not a double homicide. In which case kill all the unborn children you like.

You can't have it both ways.

Personally, having seen in-utero surgery on an unborn child to repair a heart defect and put the intestines inside the abdominal cavity because they developed outside by accident, then meeting that child and watching them grow up over 20 years after the surgery, I'm going with the science: Life begins at CONCEPTION

[Zack-Bann]

I share this point of view actually.


It’s hypocritical to hide behind the vocabulary of baby vs fetus. Abortion IS objectively “murder”


But that doesn’t mean that every conception should be brought to term just because people don’t wanna be murderers.


People should have the choice to end a pregnancy before the human is formed to a point he or she will feel anything.
Its a mercy killing sparing the kid having a hard life unwanted by their parents with no one capable of truly caring for them.


And yes its a heavy decision not to be taken lightly but it shouldn’t be illegal to make within moral reasons
(As in, aborting a fully formed baby would is practically viable outside of the womb should still be a punishable crime the same way killing a child is also a crime)

[marish01]

You care about the qellbeing of abusive parents

[marish01]

Well-being*

[Zack-Bann]

The wellbeing of abusive parents only ever reflects on the abused child

So while I don’t wanna do abusive parents any favors, the fact remains that their would be kid is in for one traumatic life experience he or she didn’t ask for

[genericname85]

i mean you gotta look at what words mean. there's a difference between killing and murder. in a nutshell a killing only becomes murder when its not legal. so as long as the killing is legal, it's not murder. and therefore whether abortion is murder or not pretty much stands and falls with what the law says.

abortion is killing for sure. but wether it's murder or not, depends on your places laws. in my place, abortions are "technically" illegal (they aren't persicuted unless they happen late in the pregnancy) but they are still not murder by the definition. abortion is deemed "removal of the fruit of the womb" xD that's the literal translation.

[Anonymous]

there's no logic or rational behind supporting abortion

only pure emotions and feelings

when they bring up "choice", yeah it is entirely subjective. "life" is purely objective

[marish01]

When their argument revolves around chice it means the personhood of the fetus is irrevalent. They don't care if abortion is murder.

[Opinion Owner]

the same arguments for abortion are the same arguments for slavery but deep down these virtue signalers know slavery is wrong but then again not so much when it comes to owning votes

[Anonymous]

Sure it is. Abortion is not an cannot be a straightforward issue because there ARE fundamental values that are in conflict. Those values are life (of the unborn) and liberty (of the mother). However you resolve this conflict is GOING to erode one fundamental value.

I would agree that abortion is murder, but I would also say I broadly support at least SOME right to choose. Because freedom matters--even when it's freedom to do something that might be vile. I can understand though why someone else might conclude that you have to uphold the life angle of things.

[jahaims]

Murder-the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

If it's legal it isn't murder technically. Abortion is killing the baby either way. I'd rather the mother have an abortion than raise a terrible human because they didn't want one.

[marish01]

Unwanted kids should be killed?

[jahaims]

It's better than them going through foster care with really high abuse rates or being raised to be a shit human that hurts society because they have shit parents.

[Friendlybro79]

@marish01 you assume that all abortions happen because the child is unwanted. What if they do want the baby but the mother is about to die? So unwanted women should be left to die? It's not black and white and that's why choice needs to be at least available to certain circumstances. Feel free to never have an abortion if you don't believe in the choice being yours.

[marish01]

@Friendlybro79 abusive parents' lives matter more to you?

[marish01]

I didn't mean to tag you friendlywhatever

[marish01]

You assume unwanted kids become terrible human beings as of abuse. Could we assume that rape victims become terrible human beings as a result of being raped?

[Friendlybro79]

This is a great dialogue and I appreciate your opinion. You are now making the point that because this is not clear cut that there needs to be choice. You get the choice to do what's right for you. Seriously though you're saying it's ok for the mom to die and I'm saying it's no ok for either of them to die. The problem is a person can be in this impossible situation where it's there is no good decision. Someone is going to die. One or both. It sucks, it's terrible, and it's not your business to tell someone else what the right thing to do is. It's horrible regardless. I do appreciate your standpoint and don't think you're bad for thinking different than me.

[marish01]

@Friendlybro79 "Seriously though you're saying it's ok for the mom to die and I'm saying it's no ok for either of them to die."
Neither of them should die

[Friendlybro79]

Yes. That means that it's not ok but I don't mean oh this is great someone gets to die. It's sometimes the health of the mom and baby are so bad that a woman has to decide. I'm saying sometimes tough decisions will have outcomes that suck regardless of what you choose. I'm just saying a woman should have the right to survive and not be told you have to die because abortion isn't allowed.

[Friendlybro79]

I'm also saying you should have a right to say for yourself I'll gamble my own life and if we both die or just one of us to leave it to a higher power. I don't believe you get to dictate that anyone else and it's ok for you to think it's horrible.

[marish01]

@Friendlybro79 why did you make the avortion topic about the rarest case of abortion?

[Friendlybro79]

Because those people matter too and having the choice doesn't mean you have to abort. Also that was a family member of mine and I'm glad she's still alive.

[Friendlybro79]

You don't have to agree with me but your beliefs matter and you should do what you feel is right in this situation. If it's rape, incest, or severe complications, there needs to be exceptions. I trust women and doctors to make the best decision not you.

[Friendlybro79]

Not you for the rest of us. You can be pro life despite choice being an option. The other way you're forcing them into your beliefs and it could kill people like my family member because you think it's wrong.

[Friendlybro79]

It comes down to people needing mind their own business.

[marish01]

@Friendlybro79 "you're forcing them into your beliefs and it could kill people"
Are you out of your mind? I am forcing women to carry the pregnancy that will kill them? Lol

[Friendlybro79]

No. Context when I said the other side is you are forcing them. I didn't mean literally you. I meant the opposing argument of abortion should be illegal no exceptions means those folks that believe that are admitting then they would be ok with the mom being dying if the doctors have said this is highly likely due to the circumstances. You don't have to agree with me but you're trying to get me in a gotcha moment. My apologies if it read that I meant you literally are forcing them. That wasn't my intention. Hopefully the context clears it up. That's aid again don't agree it's ok. You should have the choice to make the decision that is morally acceptable to you.

[Friendlybro79]

My auto correct is owning me lol. Sorry

[Grond21]

Given those principles, it's not illogical. Are you using the term rational in the same way you would use the term logical?

There's a bunch of background assumptions that come into play here, but given a certain set of them then it would not be irrational to make the claim. I don't know if it would be rational though

[TallAnon]

I've never heard that opinion. Seems like you would need to be devoid of empathy if you were to support murder, especially when it comes to your own children.
I would assume they have some kind of mental disorder or they are trolling you and don't actually hold this opinion.

[marish01]

Aren't you pro-choice?

[TallAnon]

Correct, why?

[marish01]

So it wouldn't be ok if I supported abortion?

[TallAnon]

Hm? I don't care what you support

[marish01]

What would you assume if I supported abortion?

[TallAnon]

I don't care; I wouldn't assume anything.

[marish01]

Then why did you come here? 🥴

[TallAnon]

Come where?

[marish01]

To express your opinion

[TallAnon]

Correct, you asked us to answer a question, so I answered it.

[marish01]

Which means you care

[TallAnon]

I just go through all the questions in my feed, no need to feel special.

[marish01]

You expressed your opinion on what I support in your first response then claimed you don't care what I support.
Make up your mind lol

[TallAnon]

I answer the question, I don't care about you personally.

[marish01]

I didn't mean you care about me personally.
You expressed your opinion on what I support in your first response then claimed you don't care what I support.

[TallAnon]

You didn't state it was your opinion, nor does that affect my answer. And like I said, I don't care about this subject enough to keep talking about it. I just answer the question as written. I rest my case and move on to the next.

[Gold618]

If you believe that abortion is murder and yet still support it, then you must be a psychopath.

[Jamie05rhs]

Or just selfish.

[Bricealan]

The only rational statement I have heard was this: If a fetus can survive "outside the uterus"... that is "murder"... If the fetus cannot survive OUTSIDE the uterus that is 'abortion.

[marish01]

That can be changed due to scientific advancement

[Bricealan]

@marish01 👍👍

[AviatorTom]

That is NOT rational. If you believe abortion is murder, that means that you would be in favor of putting women in jail for having an abortion, and probably their doctors too, for assisting.

[Jamie05rhs]

We don't believe in putting the women in jail, because the women have been brainwashed and they don't have the intellectual capacity to understand what they are doing.

[marish01]

I believe abortion is murder means I believe no woman should have it unless her life is at stake.

[saraupstairs]

I started supporting it when I talked to an adult crack baby. She hates her mom for not killing her. There are some things you can't unsee or unhear.

[Vendetta_]

Doesn't really make sense. I don't think most people hold that stance anyways. I'm pro choice, and I don't believe abortion is murder- before a certain point that is.

[DrPepper12]

It's not a human being - yet - is most of the problem. Not human? Not murder!

You got to love those people who support capital punishment but are against abortion... Try to rationalize THAT!

[marish01]

I don't support it either.
You support abortion because you think it is not murder.
I think abortion is murder. How can I support it?

[Danzigdawson]

Abortion is not murder. That is, in fact, rational.

[lightbulb27]

yes. but it could be irrational as well I guess... depends on definitions I haven't read in forever.

[slatyb]

It's also not moral to enslave one person to another.

[marish01]

Who enslaves whom?

[Anonymous]

It isn't as cut and dry as that.
People like to attempt to bulk this topic over, but it won't work.

[RedInnocent69]

No. Most pro-choice advocates wouldn’t consider it murder. Actually, not even Catholics did until relatively recently

[Anonymous]

That sounds crazy. But I don’t think abortion is murder.

[OlderAndWiser]

I have not seen it.

[Anonymous]

The idea is just a distraction to make people not focus on the importance. Just like all the people that focused on Covid and all the people that focused on the trans crap that happened. Wake up.

[Anonymous]

I'm completely pro-choice, I always support women's rights.

[marish01]

Regardless of it being murder

[Opinion Owner]

It's not.

[WhiteBoyChill]

I dont support it. But they’ll just say “oh its just a clump of cells”

[goaded]

People can be against murder but for war.

[Anonymous]

you mean "pro choice"?

[NewWaves]

Very twisted.

[seeyounexttuesday]

It sounds demonic.