Why are parts of society struggling to cope with the rise of women in leadership roles?

[MzAsh]

Is it the fear that women might outshine them, or is it the discomfort with the change in power dynamics?

[ohsheeT]

This is a very good question and very serious question and a funny question because it reminds me of something

I think I was in first or second grade and when the teacher would ask a question you either raised your hand and is she called on you you stood up and you gave your answer or she would just call on you and no matter your answer you would have to stand up and say what you think

Well for some reason in that class
I don't know if it was the energy that I felt in the room or exactly what was happening but my boyhood would stand up so I couldn't stand up LOL
There were times where I felt my teacher knew what was going on and she would pick on me just to make me stand up but I still wouldn't do it LOL but anyway my point is

After she would call on me I would just blurt out the answer and she would tell me I'd have to stand up if I wanted to be recognized well I didn't want to be recognized LOL but then she would always pick a girl to girl would stand up give her answer and in those moments I knew down deep that one day women were going to run the world and from that day to this day I still believe the same thing

And for the men they put down women for wanting to achieve and do the things that they want to do you have to understand they are just as equal

Most men forget that since day one how many men did that woman beat out of getting to the finish line first to come into this world I don't know how many potential men or women are sperm fighting to get to that finish line but I'm sure it's quite a few so they've already achieved the same thing that we have achieved
And that right there is proof that women are just as tough and many different ways and very capable of doing the same thing men do no matter what it is really

[slippery2000]

It's not a fear of one gender ruling over another, or even the roles starting to slowly switch around where men are being stay at home dad's while the wife is the bread maker and provider. Rather, it's the division that people are feeding into and feeling as though they need to pick a side and compete. Competition can create resentment and confrontation and ultimately division of what once was a good time enjoyed by all if individuals who are playing the game happen to be poor sports. We've all been witness to someone who gets too invested in a boardgame and slowly starts to get agitated. then the opposing player matches that energy when they start to become annoyed by their negative attitude so they in turn egg the situation on by taking small jabs at their ego. Before long, the game pieces are flying through the air and the once friendly game is now an all out brawl and when it's all said and done a good thing was ruined and both people lose. I think currently in the gender wars, we are in the taunting phase of our game... think we should take a break and regroup for a bit.

[Gwendoline]

How so. At one stage a few years ago britain was run almost exclusively by women leading Scotland, england& n Irelandand of course the Queen. The Conservative Party produced 3 female prime ministers and the current Conservative leader who may become the next prime minister is a black woman. So I really don't see the problem.

[Ms_Facesitter]

It's not about the gender. It's about the person. If a person that shouldn't be leader gets the position, a struggle will happen, stress, burnouts. Saw it happen to two of my colleagues last year. Both just happened to be women and the one leading us who nearly brought us to ruin was also a woman.

[ShadezMcgee]

It has nothing to do with that. We have no problem with women that are competent and level headed enough to ha dle a position of leadership. My second in command, my 1SGT was a woman and she was awesome and we balanced each other out. That is the key there. Balance.

The issue comes when you have incompetent women in positions of leadership that not only cause dysfunction but go on a power trip and use that power in a negative way.

Case and point Tiffany Henyard. She is the poster child of the wrong women getting into leadership positions and the kicker is, when confronted, it comes down to a lack of accountability, inability to admit when they are wrong and being able to listen to others.

Enough with the power dynamic BS or outshining men belief. Because that isn't the issue. It is a competency and personality factor that determines whether a woman will be a good leader or not.

[MzAsh]

Why do we have no problem electing incompetent male leaders? But when the discussion is about female leadership, we want to pretend we have standards all of a sudden.

[ShadezMcgee]

Are we talking about leadership in general or is this turning into something political with the presidential election?

I based my answer and gave an example to help my point because otherwise there is no foundation for this conversation we are having now. I can also speak about female bosses that employed me and treated like dog shit while I was doing my job and made me feel personally targeted.

We can discuss double standards until we are blue in the face, but to answer your comeback again, let me use the military as an example.

Leadership is affected by the chain of command and who presides in certain positions that has a downstream effect. Toxic leadership exists with men and women and it also shows their lack of accountability. Always willing to pass blame instead of owning up to consequences from decisions. Doesn't matter if you are a man or woman or officer or enlisted.

[ShadezMcgee]

Those that are in positions of power are a mix of incompetent and competent. Career focused over soldier and training and readiness. Always a shitbag spoiling the crop.

Standards need to be held by both men and women and be called out when necessary.

[MisterWack]

“Is it the fear that women might outshine them, or is it the discomfort with the change in power dynamics?”

No, it is sexists being sexists. I believe if it were always a 50/50 men & women leaders those of the male gender wouldn’t bat an eye also the female gender wouldn’t be so harsh on themselves and uplift men at their own self worth. Women can be more productive, strong, and logical leaders than the men & vice versa because everyone is an individual to be compared to another.

This society is still sexist due to a hired Prosecutor, elected Attorney General, elected Senator, and hired Vice President who happened to be a woman losing to a guilty convicted felon, conman, liable rapist, and possessor of 315 classified documents who lost a first term due to his failure to show an ounce of leadership during The Pandemic & Civil Unrest in the streets. If that doesn’t spout sexist, I don't know what is since clearly she was more qualified than that bastard.

[MisterWack]

*I will stand by that sometimes the best man for the job is a woman. Is a woman. Is a woman. Period.

[worldscolide]

I'm not struggling to cope with it, I will just say that almost every woman I have encountered in a leadership role either as my boss, or someone else's boss, engaged in favoritism, office politics, and massive amounts of drama. Basically if you weren't part of her friend group you were treated like shit, ostracized, and were guaranteed to never advance in your career. They also expect special treatment just based on what's between their legs. The only time this didn't happen is when she was from a conservative background, and had a modicum of respect for the opposite sex. My current working situation is one of them. Though she's not my boss, she doesn't treat those under her like that. She's also an older conservative woman, not a laftist. As a result she's treated like she's one of the guys, and she is absolutely valued, and I have zero issues teaching her what I know so she can become a better tech.

[worldscolide]

by the way these are personal experiences, NOT representative of the whole.

And I can give a specific example. In my youth, I worked for taco bell. Yes I worked in fast food, get over it. My boss was a woman. Every year I was passed over for promotion and raises, every year the district manager told me, based on my performance numbers, he couldn't understand why I was not a manager. Additionally, I have issues with anyone touching me. She had a bad habit of being overly handsy. I hated it, made my skin crawl. So I informed her privately that I disliked it, like a normal rational man would. She dragged me out to the production floor and loudly announced to the team that I didn't like being touched. And after that, any time I was on shift she would loudly say "hey guys the guy that doesn't like being touched is here" basically humiliating me every time I came in.

Another example of this was further back in my youth, working for McDonald's, my female manager wanted me to help her do something that was not only wrong, but illegal and unsafe as hell. I refused. She kept asking, and I kept refusing. Until one night (I worked the late shift) her boyfriend came to the restaurant, and basically threatened to kill me because of my refusal. They also assaulted me bad enough that I needed hospitalization. All of this was on camera, both the audio and video of it, and when her boss saw it (also female), she was suspended without pay, and I was fired. I ended up suing and winning, but that's besides the point.

Another example of this is at a graphic design firm, I made the mistake of refusing my supervisors sexual advances, and that lead to me getting fired. Jokes on them, they lost 80% of their most valuable accounts when I was terminated, when I told them what was done to me.

[MzAsh]

Hate to hear you had such poor leadership experience. But I will say, women experience unpleasant, illegal, and even dangerous encounters to an even greater degree with male leadership. Maybe women should start getting meaner or something because it’s interesting to me how men act like “oh a bad female leadership positions? We cannot tolerate that!” But yet bad male leaders are the norm.

[worldscolide]

While I have no idea where you're from, your own experience doesn't happen where I'm from, at least not often.

[Zack-Bann]

No one is struggling except for other women.


The one thing that poses danger to society is lowering the standard to allow women into positions that they couldn’t get to otherwise.


I believe a healthy society is one built around merits above all else
Whoever qualifies for a position of power should be allowed to claim it.
Regardless of gender

[MzAsh]

Why do we have so many unqualified male leaders?

[Zack-Bann]

Because we don’t truly have a merits based system in place today

But the solution to unqualified male leaders is not unqualified female leaders

It’s qualified leaders. Regardless of gender.

They can all be female so long as they are qualified first and female second

[MzAsh]

I don’t disagree but I do think we excuse unqualified male leaders WAY too much for this to be pushed as a standard.

[Zack-Bann]

I get that but it doesn’t begin to solve the problem

If on top of the lack of qualifications leadership have to be picked accordingly to gender or any other irrelevant genetic factor then more qualified people will be passed over

But we spend a lot of energy trying to inflict a change that is inherently misguided and will not make our situation better in the long run

[Bricealan]

Has nothing to do with fear... it has to do with competence. I would vote for Condalesa Rice if she ran for President... she is the most competent woman on the planet and she is black! She is just too SMART to ever get involved in the childish game of politics.

All of my medical staff are WOMEN with the exception of my dentist who is male.

Leadership requires competency... and Harris nor Hillary Clinton have a competent bone in their hair brained body.

[MzAsh]

I’d agree with you if what you’re saying wasn’t bs. We have no problem electing incompetent male leaders. Why do we pretend to all of a sudden have standards when it comes to women?

[genericname85]

they aren't. where did you get that idea? if you're a woman and you're as qualified or better qualified as a man, there's not gonna be the slightest problem. the problems arise, when you're shit and only got the postition cause of female quotas. that's where struggle arises.

[genericname85]

like guess what: the economy and employers don't give a shit about what's in between your legs. they care about the numbers on their business report.

[MzAsh]

Why are there so many unqualified male leaders? But when the discussion is about female leadership, we pretend we have standards all of a sudden?

[genericname85]

well you wanna back your claim about unqualified male leaders and do you have concluisve evidence comparing them to the qualification levels of female leaders? like you're kind of just throwing out one outrageous claim after the other. i don't believe it one bit.

[genericname85]

like the thing is factually speaking: most people don't want a leadership position period. so you're only gonna have outliers who want that job. and it's just a fact that there are more male outliers who will apply for these positions in the first place. these jobs aren't really attractive to people in general. cause yes they are high pay and high social status but also high stress and high burnout factor. so people don't really want these jobs.

[genericname85]

plus if you are gonna have children and wanna be a mother staying at home to raise them (which is what women choose to do without anyone forcing them), that doesn't make you really the best choice for a leadership position. it just is what it is.

[MzAsh]

The resistance to female leadership often gets chalked up to a lack of qualified women, which frankly, is a tired excuse that doesn’t hold up. It’s not so much about a scarcity in capable women as it is an entrenched bias that favor the status quo, a status quo that has routinely put unqualified men in power. Take James Buchanan, widely regarded as one of the least effective U. S. presidents, whose indecisiveness helped plunge the country into the Civil War. Or more recently, the disastrous leadership of Tony Hayward during the BP oil spill, shows not only incompetence in crisis management but also a lack of accountability. These examples aren’t anomalies. they’re evidence of a larger pattern where the bar seems mysteriously lower when it’s about maintaining male dominance in leadership roles.

Women are increasingly prioritizing careers alongside or over motherhood, and societal structures need to catch up.

[genericname85]

you just moved on and just expanded on the premise i'm not buying. who says there's resistence to female leadership? like where are you getting this? it's like you don't have to provide elaborations. i think your premise is false.

[MzAsh]

Take a look through this thread and tell me there’s no cultural resistance to female leadership. We’ve got comments right here suggesting we lower standards for women to get into leadership, ironic, given how often standards seem to drop for men. Then there’s the gem about leadership competence not being about gender, yet implying women are less competent.

Then we have quite a few who rely on anecdotal evidence about how one time they had a shitty female boss, so therefore that must mean women make for shitty leaders. We’ve all had lousy bosses, male or female, but somehow a bad female boss is taken as evidence that all women are unfit for leadership.

And let’s not forget the claims that no one would question women’s merit if they deserved their positions, yet every woman in power seems to have her qualifications scrutinized or outright dismissed, regardless of her qualifications or merit.

Add the icing on the case the comments calling women “entitled liars” or “terrible at leadership because they are sexist, unfair, immoral, and liberal,” and the outdated notion that leading isn’t a “feminine characteristic.”

What we see in this thread alone is a beautiful snapshot of the general societal pushback that still exists against women in power.

[genericname85]

there is no cultural resistance to female leadership. there is resitance to leadership in general cause people don't like being told what to do by anyone in general. i don't care for opinions. neither yours, nor the opinions of the people posting here. i care about cold hard facts. we have the facts. there's a bunch of studies done on the topic. we know that accounting for all the variables that predict income, women don't make more money than men. yet there's still people claiming women earn less then men. and there's you claiming there's societal resistance to female leadership in particular. i'm calling bullshit on this. i wanna see the reciepts.

[genericname85]

and men don't make more money than women*** income is entirely determined by other factors than gender.

[genericname85]

and what i'm saying is: that's the same for the acceptance in leadership positions. so is there something you can show for or just feelings and opinions?

[MzAsh]

The entire point of starting this thread was to discuss and highlight the evident discomfort many people have with the concept of female leadership. I’m talking about the attitudes and reactions that surface when the topic comes up, or when actually faced with female authority, not about pay gaps or anything else. The resistance I’m addressing is clear in the responses right here in this thread, which illustrate the struggle to accept and respect female authority. Your insistence that this isn’t happening seems to miss the mark entirely. This isn’t about general leadership issues. it’s specifically about the biases against female leaders. The proof is in the very responses throughout this conversation.

[genericname85]

you keep saying "it's evident" but it's not tho. you still have not provided the evidence i asked for multiple times now. you just keep repeatin it as if it was a fact. i called bullshit on it and you only keep repeating instead of delivering any reciepts.

[genericname85]

for something to be "evident" there needs to be "evidence" for it. people saying so, opinions and feelings aren't evidence.

[MzAsh]

In this case, yes they are. Because that’s what I’m talking about: the attitudes and opinions.

[genericname85]

so you think hearing a few opinions (of people where you don't even know if they even know what they're talking about) on some website makes you think you know objective facts about the entire society?

[genericname85]

damn. why do people get social science degrees is it's actually that easy? xD

[MzAsh]

It’s m not just about “a few opinions” on a website. It’s about recognizing a pattern that echoes wider societal issues. These discussions here are a microcosm of everyday attitudes and biases that women face when they step into leadership roles. Ignoring these signals just because they appear in a forum doesn’t invalidate their reflection of general societal dynamics. My point isn’t to generalize from a single thread but to spotlight examples of a larger trend. Dismissing these experiences as irrelevant is exactly the kind of oversight that perpetuates the status quo.

[genericname85]

and what's your process of "recognizing" that pattern? cause you gotta understand. what you see in your day to day life is nothing compared to an entire society. it's what we call "not representative" and therefore can't be stated as fact. and yes you must absolutely dismiss individual experience in the pursuit of larger social reality.

[genericname85]

and we got social media bubble just like andrew tate but the feminazi extreme variety who keep claiming nonsense that even the milder people end up believing. there is a way of knowin what's actually true and that helps you not just blather annekdotal nonsense. we have social science exactly for that purpose. and i don't see anything there that supports your position

[MzAsh]

If you’re looking for specifics, here are a couple of solid sources to check out. Harvard Business Review’s “Women CEOs Speak” study breaks down the pathways and challenges for women in CEO roles. Pew Research Center’s “Women and Leadership” explores into how people perceive female leaders across various sectors, and it’s packed with data on the biases and barriers they face.

These lay out the facts pretty clearly. If you want to get into a more detailed debate, hit me up in private messages.

[genericname85]

so first of all, the text you cited wasn't published in harvard business reviews. it was published in Korn Ferry institute which is a consulting form, not a research facility. and it it's more a wishy washy opinion piece than "science". there's some objective comparisons like the time it takes for women to become ceo and it clearly states that women don't typically initially aspire to become a ceo in the first place, so that again is a point to show it's female choice, not a systemic social barrier to entry for women. and the fact that women are not typically in male networks also isn't some sort of "men trying to keep women out". women don't typically let men in their networks either. it's not some elaborate system created to keep women out.

the paper you quoted from pew research centers is actually more evidence for female perception is skewed. like do you understand that "women are much more likely than men to point to societal and institutional factors such as the country not being ready to elect more female political leaders and women being held to higher standards than men in business" does not mean women actually are held to higher standards than men?

[genericname85]

like nothing of this is actually evidence for the claim you're making here. it's rather evidence to the contrary.

[genericname85]

like you're not quoting harvard here. this isn't primary sources, it's secondary sources. you're are also not quoting objective science communicators. you're quoting nonprofit organizations and think tanks who are interested in creating a certain perception. you gotta be aware of these things.

[MzAsh]

How is it evidence of the contrary?

[AviatorTom]

The increase in the number of women who have careers, which increases the number of women in leadership roles, has a negative effect on birth rates, which are declining in many countries around the world... and that's troubling for humanity as a whole.

[Snakeyes7]

No one would have a problem with it if they got there through merit. The problem is that the people who claim they want women in these positions deliberately lower their standard specifically for women, as if they actually think women would never make it there otherwise.

[MzAsh]

Standards have certainly been lowered for male leadership. Why is that?

[Snakeyes7]

In the political stage, it is simply because they are running against someone that the media constantly fear mongers as neo-hitler or something.

If the people who voted for Biden, for example, were paying attention at all during the primaries, I guarantee you they'd be in favor of candidates like Tulsi Gabbard and completely fumbled their chance of a woman president. Biden reminded people of the Obama years and he just said a bunch of things that sound good on paper and that was enough.

I am biased of course because, to me, Gabbard seemed like the only one in the primaries with sanity and principles so take that what you will. It is also no surprise that she eventually switched sides.

[Taylor_C]

Very few people regardless of gender are fit for leadership. Of those that are, much fewer are women than men. There are women who are excellent leaders, but those are extremely few, and they don’t have any issues getting accepted.

[lorenzomichael]

Because that how society is. Some people are still struggling with gays and lesbians. Black and white. However, I wouldn’t worry about what society thinks does or feels as long as you take care of yourself and the people around you and the ones you love.

[David5668]

Because it’s breaking the ultra-long established assumption that women are best only for procreation and domestic duties. And when politicians like Jacinda Ahearn can lead a country through a global pandemic, and shame the likes of Boris Johnson and Donald Trump, that’s when you see the Toxic masculinity rear it’s ugly head even higher.

[MechanicMan1972]

It is not a feminine characteristic of a woman to possess a desire to lead a national war, or govern the stronger male gender.
God placed leadership traits on the male for a reason, and HE does not make mistakes like mankind, regardless of what you choose to believe.

[MzAsh]

How do you reconcile your view of divinely assigned gender roles with the historical and contemporary examples of female leaders who have successfully led nations through conflict and governance? Additionally, how do you account for the diversity of leadership styles that transcends gender, in light of modern understanding of leadership as a skill set rather than an inherent trait?

[Unit1]

Can't say. I don't struggle with that.

[HighValue]

Most women are terrible at leadership. Why? Because most of them are sexist, unfair, immoral, and liberal. The small number of women that aren't like that are often hated by the rest.

[MzAsh]

Can you provide empirical evidence or studies that support your claim that most women in leadership are sexist, unfair, immoral, and particularly liberal?

[MzAsh]

Guess not

[FunkyMonkee]

Like who? England's got one, Germany, Italy, Australia, Mexico and probably the Philippines have one and nobody seems to have a problem with them being women, only that some make really bad decisions.

[CarolinaGirl5]

Because majority of women are biased, aren't logical, naive , has a huge sense of entitlement , hypocrites and other countries would not respect a woman as president.

[CarolinaGirl5]

Therefore , a woman should not be president they don't have the traits/qualities to successfully run a country

[Dargil]

Cultural tradition. That doesn't justify discrimination. However, women should get those roles purely be merit and not by owning a vagina. Do you agree?

[MzAsh]

Yes, I agree. But why do you think we have no problem electing incompetent male leaders?

[Dargil]

Because they are easy to control and manage. Good reason they hate Trump. Both parties want weak leaders like McCain, GWB and Biden.

[lightbulb27]

I don't see struggle, but women at work can be worse than men.

[Kelley1]

Because it is political and not based on merit.

[backdoorman]

What parts of society are you referring to? I have not personally seen evidence of that.

[MzAsh]

Are you suggesting that because you haven’t personally witnessed something, it doesn’t exist? How do you account for the numerous studies and reports that document gender biases in leadership across various sectors?

[backdoorman]

Three quarters of Human Resources leaders are female. Does that mean certain segments of society are "struggling to cope" with men in leadership roles?

[Staximus]

I'm not. I have 2 jobs and both my bosses are women. One is a complete idiot and a control freak, and the other one is one of the best bosses I ever had.

[Ironco]

None of the above.

They just can't seem to find one qualified enough to do a proper job.

That's not a slam against women, the ones they choose are horrible unqualified to lead.

[CalmUntilAbused]

Well... I know of at least one woman who was beyond qualified for a leadership role. Have You heard of the Iron Lady Margaret Thatcher?

[findacure4wokeness]

Men are left to do all the crappy heavy lifting jobs that women can't do and women are often less productive but want equal pay.

[DrPepper12]

Pale, stale, males have never had to share before so to them it feels like a reduction of the menu not a widening of the buffet

[Gwendoline]

You know conservatives have produced 3 female prime ministers in Britain, the leader of the Scottish assembly was a woman and the joint leaders of n Ireland are women. The current leader of the Conservative Party is a black woman set to run in 2028

[DrPepper12]

@Gwendoline and that's a great start. We need more women

[onedarkcloud]

People are licking their wounds for backing Kamala for President & Hillary in dealing with the RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA collusion scandal that she instigated that hurt women's causes

[Iron_Man]

Like who Kamala Harris she doesn’t know what she’s doing or Hillary Clinton

[MzAsh]

Like Trump, or Biden? Neither one of these goons knows what they’re doing either.

[MzAsh]

It’s interesting how when there’s a discussion of female leadership, we act like we have standards? “When we get one qualified enough.” lol yet we have no problem pushing male idiots in leadership positions they don’t even begin to qualify for.

[turnpost]

There struggling period its not women. Its the times.

[rebeliouse]

think its more the average jo has little to offer and misses out in his life needs of sex @MzAsh

[NathanDavis]

some are just males... and not men yet

[saraupstairs]

I haven't seen the struggle.

[WhitneySnow]

I think it’s both

[Pete671]

It's because women are entitled liars!!!

[MzAsh]

Why do you believe entitlement and dishonesty are traits exclusive to women? Can you provide specific examples that substantiate your claim without resorting to generalizations or stereotypes?

[Pete671]

specific examples would merely confirm the stereotype,,,

[MzAsh]

Men can be entitled liars too yet we have no problem favoring them in leadership. Enough.

[Grond21]

I don't know what you are referencing

[Adel50]

Struggling how?

[noohair]

I don't care... struggling, nope...

[gjbbjjhgh]

My mother fuck Joe biden

[beefcakebradybatson]

Both.

[RedInnocent69]

Um, sexism

[seeyounexttuesday]

None. Lol.