Have you see this happening with our government in the last 50 years?

[NoDecision]

Do you agree with her or not?

She was dead on!

She was delusional!

Who is Ayn Rand?

[abc3643]

Ayn Rand was fucked in the head and, because of her (and I am not kidding on this), we almost went into a 2nd Great Depression in 2008 which, fortunately, was only the Great Recession because of timely government intervention - the sort of thing Ayn Rand would be against.

This is because Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan, an acolyte of Ayn Rand's believe in her horseshit ideology of Objectivism. So, laissez-faire attitudes about the free market being self-correcting caused us to almost self-correct out of existence.

Remember these two:

1. First this quotation:

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

[Kung Fu Monkey -- Ephemera, blog post, March 19, 2009]
― John Rogers

2. Former Fed Chair Alan Greenspan being interrogated by Congressman Henry Waxman during the Great Recession on 23 OCT 2008.

Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/embed/txw4GvEFGWs

Part2

https://www.youtube.com/embed/CQ6WgiHq3CE

REP. HENRY WAXMAN:

The question I have for you is, you had an ideology, you had a belief that free, competitive — and this is your statement — "I do have an ideology. My judgment is that free, competitive markets are by far the unrivaled way to organize economies. We've tried regulation. None meaningfully worked." That was your quote.

You had the authority to prevent irresponsible lending practices that led to the subprime mortgage crisis. You were advised to do so by many others. And now our whole economy is paying its price.

Do you feel that your ideology pushed you to make decisions that you wish you had not made?

ALAN GREENSPAN:

Well, remember that what an ideology is, is a conceptual framework with the way people deal with reality. Everyone has one. You have to — to exist, you need an ideology. The question is whether it is accurate or not.

And what I'm saying to you is, yes, I found a flaw. I don't know how significant or permanent it is, but I've been very distressed by that fact.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN:

You found a flaw in the reality…

ALAN GREENSPAN:

Flaw in the model that I perceived is the critical functioning structure that defines how the world works, so to speak.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN:

In other words, you found that your view of the world, your ideology (*), was not right, it was not working?

ALAN GREENSPAN:

That is — precisely. No, that's precisely the reason I was shocked, because I had been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well.

(*) Greenspan's ideology was Objectivism created by Ayn Rand. It's an ideology that justifies adults to refuse to grow up, but instead remain selfish, overconfident assholes with Dunning–Kruger effect.

For more info:

https://www.atlassociety.org/post/the-alan-greenspan-confession

[NoDecision]

She may have been drinking too many hot toddies, who knows, but that wasn't the question. What happened in 2008 was due to the banks over loaning to people who could not afford the payments. She died in 1982 so had nothing to do with any of that. I asked if the statement I posted was true. Did you even read it?

[abc3643]

Saying Ayn Rand had nothing to do with the Great Recession is like saying Jesus had nothing to do with The Crusades or that Mohammed had nothing to do with 9/11 or that Hitler has nothing to do with Neo-NAZIsm.

Ideologies and their influence live long after their creators.

Remember this from Act III, Scene 2 of the play "Julius Caesar" by Shakespeare:

The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones

==========
I read your original question and it doesn't change my opinion about Ayn Rand and her vile philosophy of Objectivism, but I should clarify.

Her alleged quote that you posted (but that has no citation) is not Earth-shattering. It's human nature and anyone your age should intuitively know that. However, I don't think society is "doomed", but it does need repair. And this has been going on for about 12,000 years now.

[NoDecision]

@abc3643 Then you should have just said that it was true. I didn't ask for a tirade on anything but if her statement was true. When I look at government today, what do you see? It is run by a bunch of rich people. They provide nothing, and are just in it to enrich themselves. What Congressman is not a millionaire, or who will be one when they retire. You sound like the people who say some star athlete got a bum deal with his $20 million contract then they make $40,000 a year. We pay taxes through the nose, and then taxes on top of taxes. Meanwhile the rich pay less than you do. Everything she said applies to today. I'm sorry that you can't see it because you hate Trump.

[abc3643]

Because it's not true.
Her assertion is that "society is doomed". It's not. If it was, we'd be back to living in caves or being nomadic herders because "society is doomed" would have happened 12000 years ago at the dawn of civilization.

What do I see in government today?
It's government; it hasn't fundamentally changed in generations.
What HAS changed, ironically, is that people have become more selfish and less truly patriotic (that means illustrating your patriotism and altruism [*] through your actions and not just words).

Do I hate Trump?
No. The populism he espouses has actually been around a long time and he understands it. Trump may be a narcissistic, selfish, deluded asshole, but he is smart about human nature. Furthermore, approaching 80, he remembers the 1960s and the idealism of those times. That idealism would have supported this populism! Bernie Sanders understood this even better. This is why he should have - and would have - been elected in 2016, but the Democrats are idiots and blew it. Sanders is the real populist. Trump is a populist in that it gives him power; other than that, I am not so sure.

But, I do understand where you are coming from; I felt the same way when I was your age - and I still do!! (I just realize though that Trump is a tad full of shit; you'd know that too if you were a NYer like Trump and I are.) Anyway, those feelings are one reason why I chose not to have kids; you could see the shit hit the fan the moment Ronald Reagan became President 44 years ago.

[*] As you may know, altruism is the cardinal sin - the sworn enemy - of Objectivists (the people who follow Ayn Rand) who, by the very nature of their ideology, are selfish.

[NoDecision]

@abc3643 Well everyone is full of shit in one way or other, especially politicians and the fools that vote for them thinking that they are on their side.

[abc3643]

Believe what you want and I won't debate you.

Just know this: If you are an acolyte of Ayn Rand's Objectivism, then you need to grow-up fast or you will remain an unloved, festering hemorrhoid on the asshole of the human race.

[DrPepper12]

Wow!!! TY for that!! It's remarkable the minions she's gathered to her foul fuckery!

[NoDecision]

@abc3643 Wow! That was an unkind thing to say. Do you get blocked a lot by chance? 🤔 You can disagree without being so vile. 🥱

[abc3643]

It's only unkind if you are an Objectivist. You may not like my words, but they get to the point.

Something else everyone should know - and it just doesn't apply to Objectivists:
You (any person, not you personally) continue to exist at the mercy of the rest of us.
If we decide to kill you, we will kill you.

Not only does that apply to humans but other species as well. The profound assholes are eliminated; it's part of the evolutionary process.

[D_Bone_Steak]

I haven't read any of her books since I was a teenager. From what I remember it was just basic bitch utilitarianism and I agreed with the idea that being altruistic is basically retarded... having children later on re-shaped that perspective.

I think it's really what started pushing me away from a Liberal mindset to a more Conservative one.

[NoDecision]

I wasn't asking about her thoughts as a whole, just her statement that I posted. Do you think what she said is true today?

[D_Bone_Steak]

It depends. If you follow the program society tells most of us to do... school--->work--->and do this do that. Yeah, it still holds true. I mean they just start getting ran like a taxable battery, taken advantage of in so many ways and then get shit out the other end when they're too old.

If you jump off the beaten path and say become a van-life person that's figured out a passive income... you're free.

It's present in all the classes of society though.

[WindAtMyBack]

I agree with a lot of this, but not all. Overall I don't think much of her IF she means everything literally. If it's just to make a point, or if it's metaphorical, then I probably agree a lot more with her.

I think a dozen or so years ago when Ayn Rand fanboys were popping up everywhere, they were taking her writings way too seriously and literally.

[Syntosi]

I mean, this is not some profound insight or anything like that but she is missing an important part. Society is not doomed in this case. Societies are VERY rarely doomed, even when they are faced with the most horrific abuses or corruption and they also tend to self-correct.

The people who come in to corrupt power often also lose power at some point and the cycle repeats. On a side-note, Ayn Rand is also a complete lunatic so I would not listen to her in the first place.

[Kaneki05]

That... Don't make sense. Does she think thats not what has happened for countless societies through all history and yet we are not doomed and you know rights and living standards only have got better overtime so.. Where is this doom exactly?

[NoDecision]

So you don't think what she said could describe the government that we have, and even the rich who control the economy?

[Kaneki05]

My point was that it describes all societies any period and yet we aren't doomed if anything in a better place than we were. Unless you think 18s and 19s were better or any other time? So this doom is absurd idea from that point.

[NoDecision]

Remember, she said that in 1957. Good things come and good things go. But one thing is sure, the government is not run by poor people. It is run by people who don't do things for the people, but for their own gain.

[Kaneki05]

Yes she said it after centuries of that very thing happening glad she figured it out must've took her time learning history. But not well enough as predicting it will lead to doom when it never has, and society even in great depressions have progressed.

And yes, however what is in the gain for the rich actually typically is in the gain for the poor.
For example we wouldn't have cars if a rich man never wanted one. Same for TV or anything. Everything that becomes a commonaility in society was once part of it only been for rich therefore the poor do gain.
Just in a slower Time frame and not as much.

[Dargil]

That's where we were headed. That's when armed uprising happens. We were weeks away before Nov. 5 had the election had been stolen, again.

[Daniela1982]

Not really familiar with her, but if a watch dog group said this then it would probably be true. I think so too.

[DrPepper12]

Rand is a fucking nut case but a wordsmith and goddess among libertarians.

[seeyounexttuesday]

Fortunately we are seeing the ship being righted.

[NoDecision]

Well it hasn't happened yet. The Titanic might be raised before we see everything put right in the US.

[seeyounexttuesday]

You understand he's not been in office a week and there is an incomprehensible amount of damage to reverse.

[NoDecision]

I agree. And the guilty see it and are scrambling to cover their asses. The illegals are even leaving town on their own because they know the tea party is over and they will be receiving no more free handouts.

[seeyounexttuesday]

Yup. Was just listening to a podcast of how much the CIA has infiltrated foreign countries to push the censorship-industrial complex.

Of course, we also have to do battle with the left in this country because they like the idea of censoring people.

[Anonymous]

Forest for the trees. (Comments)