Discuss amongst yourselves. True? False? It's complicated?

[DrPepper12]

Hmmm... 🤔

True

False

It's complicated...

[Miristheiss]

What do you mean by "purchase" citizenship?

You still miss the big picture. The MAIN point.

Whether you are thinking citizenship is bought (I mean people born here are automatically citizens) and that if you are poor you can't be a foreigner and come here and become a citizen

The main point is that there are just TOO DAMN MANY PEOPLE COMING HERE!!!

Millions and millions have been coming in per year. Even if they are all doctors and mathematicians and programmers... we don't need THAT MANY of ANYONE.

Legal? Illegal? How about you don't let in so many fucking people period?

Keep it to a few tens of thousand per year.

What psychopath is ok with MILLIONS of foreigners relocating to our country every single year? That is utter madness.

[DrPepper12]

The boomers are dying off & we need replacement labor. How much I'll leave to the experts but we do need it.

[exitseven]

It is complicated. Making it a process to become a citizen is designed to make people appreciate their citizenship and prove tht they really want to be part of this country.

I suppose charging 5 million dollars for a "Gold Card" can prove that as well but Irealize that it is not the same thing.

When my grandmother became a citizen she was very proud to be an American and she displayed the little American flag that they gave her in the kitchen to the rest of her life. Just buying your way into it is not the same. I think another part is that Trumpo is trying to attract very wealthy people who will come here and start businesses and create jobs. Truthfully, I am skeptical.

[DrPepper12]

With Trump I'm skeptical of EVERYTHING

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO😎

[Amy10223]

Not if you're a Russian and can afford to buy the cards Trump is handing out for citizenship to America. I forgot the price, but it was pretty steep. The immigrants that are here are poor and want a better life. That's how I see it.

[OldBlu]

Were you seriously a teacher?

[Amy10223]

@OldBlu Yes, and I taught for 33 years. Are you really your age and you have no knowledge of anything? I guess the teachers could not do much with you, poor souls.

[DrPepper12]

@OldBlu as a fellow teacher I agree. You need algebraic tautologies/logic lessons.

[OldBlu]

Why don't the poor people come to a legal Port of entry?

[DrPepper12]

@OldBlu asylum doesn't require that

[Anonymous]

All countries do this. They want millionaires and billionaires to bring their money into the country instead of sitting in some tax haven in the Bahamas.

Take Musk, he employs so many us citizens

[DryGermanGuy]

We don’t and most European countries don’t. Our taxes are too high anyway.

[Opinion Owner]

@DryGermanGuy most European countries do. It's money. I'm sure if some turk with a billion dollars turned up in Munich he'd get citizenship tomorrow.

[DryGermanGuy]

No, he doesn't. Various people tried this before. Cyprus had this scheme and after they attracted Russian mafiosis, they are under EU investigation. It's not worth it.

[Opinion Owner]

@DryGermanGuy they still do. Arab royals, African warlords, Chinese billionaires and whoever. The problem they have with Russians is only due to the Ukraine war. As far as I know Europe is giving citizenship to whoever turns up.

[DryGermanGuy]

If that's what you "know", then you know nothing. Germany had for the last couple of years an expedited access to citizenship (3-5 years) for people in highly demanded jobs, not rich people. Even that has been canceled now, it's back to 5-7 years.
Why the hell would warlords and royals want to let the lights of a working state bureaucracy with high taxes shine on their ill-gotten gains, anyway? Makes no sense.

[Opinion Owner]

@DryGermanGuy Germany does not have a “Golden Visa” program. But, if you invest or establish a business in Germany, you will get you a residence permit which eventually leads to German citizenship. The investment must meet an economic need and you have to live in Germany for five years to become a citizen.

[DrPepper12]

Not all countries do this.

[DryGermanGuy]

Uhm, yeah. This is a realistic scenario which actually benefits the country and its people. And it's a far cry away from some shady Russian dealer or whomever turning up somewhere in Europe with a suitcase full of untaxed money and buying a citizenship.

[Opinion Owner]

Most do. In fact they all compete with each other.

[DryGermanGuy]

I highly doubt that. And as I stated, especially with the Russian war in Ukraine this practice is on its way out anyway. You shouldn't hold your breath for some rich Arab royal buying a German passport. I sure don't.

[Opinion Owner]

@DryGermanGuy don't be silly. That's why all these countries compete for lower tax rates and even zero taxes like the caiman islands are Monaco or dubai. They want that money in the country. Doesn't have to be an Arab, could be an African like Elon Musk moving to Germany.

[DryGermanGuy]

There has been no race to the bottom for taxes in EU countries, how idiotic would that be? If some Arab countries think their budgets are big enough to play that game, then that's on them. We are not competing with fucking Dubai or whatever. And micro states like Monaco don't even have the space to invite all rich Europeans to live there, apart from the fact that they don't need to sell citizenship. Billionaire Mohamed Al-Fayed tried every trick in the book to obtain British citizenship and failed for forty years straight.

[Opinion Owner]

@DryGermanGuy I didn't say it was right ot wrong, though Dubai and Monaco has you beat. Maybe Germany has france beat.

[DryGermanGuy]

And strangely enough there is neither an exodus of rich Germans to Monaco and Dubai nor an exodus of rich Frenchmen to Germany. How about that.

[Opinion Owner]

@DryGermanGuy when they can find loopholes not to pay tax why would they.
Klaus-Michael Kühne. As important shareholder of flag-carrier Lufthansa, main owner of Hapag-Lloyd and Kühne+Nagel, Kühne is one of the money elites of Germany with influence into politics and economic circles. All of his main companies and investments make their sales in Germany. However, Kühne does not pay any taxes in Germany for his holding company or his private assets.

Dieter Schwarz In 2023, Forbes listed Schwarz as the wealthiest man in Germany and the 25th richest person in the world with an estimated net worth of US$47.2 billion. Since 1999, Schwarz manages his resources through the tax-exempt Dieter Schwarz Foundation (gGmbH, limited liability company with a charitable purpose), when he transferred his shares in Lidl and Kaufland into it, deciding just how much of his profits go into the foundation.

[WindAtMyBack]

"Illegals are only guilty of being poor"

I'm pretty sure I saw the word illegal in there.

Buying citizenship is a variation of the E2 Visa. The E2 visas are for people/companies that start businesses or branches in the US. They must invest a certain amount of money, and hire a minimum number of people. This has been in place a long time.

Have you ever gotten a paycheck from a poor person? You can say illegals are guilty of being poor. But saying they don't hand out paychecks would be more accurate.

Most of my ESL students are here on E2 visas. Almost all of them are Japanese. There are seven Japanese businesses in my area that have in total a couple thousand employees.

These kind of programs have been around a long time, through both Democrat and Republican administrations.

It's not complicated at all, unless you think poor people hand out paychecks.

[MisterWack]

There is another conversation that this reminds me of,

”If purchasing isn’t owning, then piracy isn’t theft”.

Do I have an answer, no. Do I have an opinion, Hell yeah!

If you can purchase being a citizen and skip the line, then maybe that is making not being able to afford to skip the line being an injustice against the poor.
Though I believe it is more complicated than that personally.

Though to add to the broader picture, I am all in favor of making it easier to gain citizenship in this country and not more difficult since immigration fuels the economy. Immigration not only does that benefit, it also allows the growth of industries also new opportunities.

Separately, if you don’t own anything then stealing isn’t theft though that is just my opinion. See ya around.

[jshm2]

LOL, you always purchase citizenship, unless you are granted it by birth.

But "illegals" do work and pay taxes - they just cannot claim any benefit. So it's really just slavery by another name. They "purchase" their freedom by eventually paying the fees and filling in the paperwork.

[OddBeMe]

I'd say that's better than nepo babies buying citiznship

[CalmUntilAbused]

No, there is one more thing they are guilty of, and that is unlawful entry into the US. The purchase of citizenship might seem unethical or unfair, but it is still a form of obtaining all the necessary permissions to enter the US. What's more, the old-fashioned way is still valid, which kind of invalidates the unfairness claims. Therefore, the illegal aliens are guilty of unlawful entry.

[OneViewpoint]

Hey, in the ultimate extremist Capitalist nation that worships wealth, everything is for sale. They even have Christian wealth worship cults. It’s refreshingly honest of them to admit that includes citizenship. And yeah, the average immigrant is guilty of being poor. A mortal sin in the eyes of conservative brains.

What’s that quote on the Statue of Liberty? Give us your fat, your wealthy, your greedy, your billionaires who can pay to cut in line and huddle in a mansion.

[Dongie]

One viewpoint is all you have. Which one will cast the brightest light upon my holy virtue. 😂

[SmokinAces2000]

Don’t forget brown. Elon and Donald wanted to bring in white South Africans no problem.

[DrPepper12]

Good point!! It's all white with them!

[OldBlu]

Are you able to stop playing the race card?

[SmokinAces2000]

Sure once Trump and Elon stop using it.

[OldBlu]

The race card has been played for many decades. Try harder.

[SmokinAces2000]

Many decades? So I guess the civil rights movement was just race baiting huh?

[OldBlu]

Is race baiting all you have?

[SmokinAces2000]

Is racism all you have?

[jamesgoldman]

I know some south Africans who've left, they wouldn't go back because they'd be killed... my uncle left after his business partner died it an attempted robbery (he pulled the pin on his emergency grenade... no car, he was identified by DNA but the pack of robbers was cut from 6 to 2)

[DrPepper12]

@jamesgoldman yes but sa accepts that level of necessary security & violence.

[jamesgoldman]

Indeed but it's become more common elsewhere

[msmissydc]

I would even go futher, no one is illegal. Hateful laws try to make people illegal.

[Dongie]

That's funny. People like you would be the first to go without laws to protect.

[msmissydc]

Go where? Also, what do laws about protection have to do with making people illegal?

[Dongie]

Stupid is as stupid does. None so blind...

Ask someone to help you with understanding.

[msmissydc]

So you don't understand your own sentence? Typical😅

[Dongie]

People such as yourself would be fodder for the predators without the law enforcement officer. Understand now?

[msmissydc]

Predators like you? I understand the sentence, but it still doesn't make sense in this context.
Do you understand the concept of laws?

[Dongie]

Do you? You say no one is illegal. That's real brilliant. You should get the Nobel Prize for that insightful statement.

[Dongie]

Or lazy. Or just sneaky. Hum, isn't this something? You know, teachers shouldn't have trouble with context. After all, in the world of communication context IS the heart.

[Dongie]

ALL OF YOU LIBERALS ARE TO STUPID TO LIVE!!! 😅 HAH- HAH&HO!!

[DrPepper12]

Emotions aside. Is it logically accurate?

[Dongie]

How about this: we can't offer a ticket that boosts our cash flow because some people in the world are poor! Fixed it. Why should they build mansions or Lamborghini and Ferrari? Hell, why not take, confiscate everybody's money, and distribute it equally to all. Wait, then there is no incentive to create or even hold a job that is a necessity like garbage collectors. If you're not growing, you're dying.

[DrPepper12]

Will we get the citizens we want n need this way? Does it "cheapen" citizenship?

[Dongie]

Damn teacher, why do you miss the correct bug picture for wanting the minor virtuous claim? You present, as do your fellow liberal, to care so much for the people you've never seen but openly talk of the president and those voters that made him so dying in a harsh way.

[OddBeMe]

True. Illegal immigration is poor immigration.

And those who buy citizenship do a lot less for America than those who earn it.

[seeyounexttuesday]

So when you go to a store and steal something that other people pay for, you're just discriminated against because you're poor? Is that where you're going with this?

[DrPepper12]

Interesting. I need to think about that as an analogy if it's valid.

[DrPepper12]

Ok. A store is private property. Difference right there. Now, theft is theft. But asylum is NOT theft. It's seeking potential citizenship after due process.

[seeyounexttuesday]

You worked very hard for that nonsensical spin. Took you almost a week. Asylum under false pretenses is theft.

[Massageman]

It's not complicated. They are breaking the law and not entering the country legally. Amen. The end. -30-

[Sal_Monella]

Poverty is not a reason for guilt or judgment.

[Pohjolan]

If you go into a movie theater without buying a ticket then you are not guilty of just being poor.

[Twalli]

The quote is true, but I'm not sure that you can actually purchase it.

[Likes2drive]

Sounds about right

[OldBlu]

They're actually guilty of being guilty.

[DrPepper12]

Of what? Following OUR asylum laws?

[OldBlu]

Swimming across the river at night has nothing to do with following asylum laws.