Should I trust but verify be the proper response when a man ask for a paternity test and his wife is upset because that says he doesn't trust her?

[Kelley1]

As of now, no states in the United States require a paternity test to be performed at the hospital following the birth of a child.

However, mandatory paternity tests would also remove the stigma associated with “not trusting your wife”.

Is it possible that women oppose paternity tests because most women will occasionally cheat and cannot always be certain who the biological father is?

Updates

1 y

All the men posting have it wrong. Husbands should not complain if they are not the biological father of the baby. Women can fuck up for sex, but for marriage they must settle for equals. Since wives can fuck up, when they cheat, it will be with a man with better genes who is better looking and superior in every way.

By having a baby with a man who has better genes, she is doing her husband a favor. She is giving her husband a pretty and superior baby that he will be able to brag about.

[msc545]

Women oppose paternity testing because they do in fact cheat and they don't want to be caught. That isn't too difficult to understand. If women never cheated then they wouldn't care one way or the other about paternity testing, but they do cheat and they do care about not having to worry about being discovered at it. On the other hand, men do not need to ask women for permission to do paternity testing. Their participation is not medically required. All that is required is a sample from the child which is easy to obtain without the woman's knowledge and of course a sample from the man which he's going to voluntarily provide. I did a paternity test on my daughter shortly after she was born and all it required was scraping the inside of her cheek a little bit and some blood from me and it was done. It provided me with peace of mind regarding this issue. So yes you can say trust but verify if you want but a better thing to do is to just do it without the woman's knowledge. Not everything is her business.

[Kelley1]

That is the best answer. Trust but verify without the wife knowing.

[msc545]

Yes, the wife has absolutely no need to know. On the other hand, the child and the grandchild have a great need to know.

[RavVid]

In France, it is illegal to have a paternity test done and a year in prison can result. A lot of countries require the consent of the mother. Feminists have of course tried to shut down paternity tests.

In my country, a test lab would requite the mothers consent and they wouldn't risk their accreditation. Doubtless I could find a lab somewhere in the world to do such a test but I wouldn't be able to use it directly. I could however act on it and subsequently get a court ordered test.

[Kelley1]

@RavVid I don't believe France can prevent you from obtaining a DNA paternity test. They can probably prevent you from buying a home DNA test kit since it must be mailed through customs. However, France cannot open all first-class mail. To keep it thin enough, put the samples on an absorbent piece of paper or take a cheek swab, remove the stick, and send only the cotton. Then request the results by email or fax. If the name of the company is descriptive, change the name on the address, as the post office will deliver based on the street address.

[RavVid]

It is trying to put the genie back in the bottle :) and getting a test done through 'a friend' would be difficult to prevent.

I attempted to send a link on the EU position but GAG objects to the content. I don't think it is taking a moral position but objecting to some of the hexadecimals.

[RavVid]

If I was in the US I sure as hell would since false paternity is running at 30%. There was an Australian gov't white paper which was arguing false paternity wasn't much of a problem because it was only 10% and wasn't anywhere near as bad as the US 30%.

Of course with the standard two babies those odds double to 20% and 60% of one of them being of false paternity. If a future wife brings up the B word, then positive paternity verification is going to be one of my conditions.

It is now possible to verify in utero so I'd want that done asap and a post birth test as well.

I think there should be a prenup agreement condition of DNA testing and that if one of her babies isn't mine than she gets nothing.

I like your line "I trust but verify" but I think according to prenup clause 6.1 etc is better.

[Kelley1]

The actual percentage of children who are not the biological children of the presumed father is unknown. However, the estimates range from 7 to 15 percent. The 30% you speak of is based on the percentage of requested DNA tests. That is, from men who requested DNA tests. They requested the DNA tests because they have reasons to be suspicious. The percentage is much lower in men who have no reason to be suspicious.

[RavVid]

The review I read went back further than DNA testing and covered blood tests too. The later was more complicated than blood type X & Y does not equal Z and frankly exceeded my medical capabilities.

A woman I know outed her sister's infidelity at the maternity hospital by showing off her medical knowledge. Funny. The gentleman concerned thinks three of his four children are his but in fact only one is. Accidents do happen :)

What you say is right - there is a lot of vagueness in this topic. Men might be suspicious and DNA are exact now where as blood testing was less accurate in the past. Also some men are not suspicious when they ought to be - the four children of the the gentleman above look like bitzers. It is hard to see why he thinks 3 are his.

In Glascow UK, a scientific investigation into left handedness was abandoned after presumed fatherhood was found to be highly inaccurate. On the other hand the wives of Smiths have been found to be paragons of fidelity. So demographics seems to count.

I guess a random sampling of presumed fathers and their children would tell us the truth. It might not be ethical however to deceive the subjects. Are you aware of any such? Otherwise it is all over the shop.

Here in Oz, a husband sued his wife for financial fraud but didn't get much back. On divorce men should demand DNA paternity tests most definitely.

[Kelley1]

I read the results are 7 to 15 percent. However, I don't know how they were obtained. It should not be hard to determine. 200 or even 100 fathers and children would give accurate results, provided it was a random sample. However, obtaining a truly random sample would be difficult. Even a sample of 2 million may not give an accurate result if not random.

30% of Men: Not the Father?
A quick online search gives frighteningly alarming figures; many articles claim that as many as 30% of men are unknowingly raising another man’s child. This would mean that out of a class of 60 students, 20 of them are growing up calling the wrong man dad.

Where did this 30% figure come from?
This is an often misunderstood statistic provided by some paternity test labs regarding the percentage paternity tests with a ‘not the father’ result. Most paternity test labs report that about 1/3 of their paternity tests have a ‘negative’ result. Of all the possible fathers who take a paternity test, about 32% are not the biological father. But remember, this is 1/3 of men who have a reason to take a paternity test - not 1/3 of all men. That is a huge difference!

[RavVid]

Precisely as you say. Paternity tests will be dominated by men who are suspicious. It might also happen that men sensibly want a check when their wife divorces them or find out she was cheating after the birth without being suspicious before and during the pregnancy.

A small random sample of the size you suggested would indeed give clarity. If it is as wide spread as 32%, it wouldn't take a great number. In the Glasgow study I mentioned it was about 30% without being drawn from suspicious men.

[Kelly6]

@Kelley1 To me it doesn't mean that he doesn't trust her. For some we just want to make sure who is that father, as I have sex with more guy.

For basic ralationship, yes it breaks trust and even loyalty bond.

If there is no trust, then marriage if falling apart

[Kelley1]

For the sake of argument, assume that it is true that the marriage is falling apart if the man does not trust his wife enough to automatically believe he is the biological father without asking his wife. Does that apply to the man and not the wife?

Is there a wife who does not look through her husband's pockets and clothes, his mail, and cell phone, and question him about any piece of paper with an unknown name and/or phone number, or smell of perfume, or long hair on his clothes, or red on his shirt? If she finds anything she is not sure of that at least could imply that maybe he wasn't faithful, does her questions break trust and mean the marriage is falling apart?

[Kelly6]

@Kelley1
Also true

[Kelley1]

@Kelly6 It is true that all wives snoop and will probably ask questions if they find evidence of something suspicious. However, my argument may be flawed because it may not be the same thing. That is, her questions occur after she has found evidence of something suspicious. However, the husbands are asking for a DNA test without having any evidence that their wives did something suspicious.

[Kelly6]

@Kelley1
Thanks for mho

[Paige90]

I think paternity tests should be required in every state. This is especially true if the girl has a high sexual history.

[Kelley1]

You cannot write a law that would make it a requirement for some women based on their sexual history. In most situations, it is impossible to determine.

[OlderAndWiser]

1. Paternity testing can be done before the birth of a child.
2. No, I don't want more government regulation of our private lives.
3. After birth, paternity testing can be done without the mother's knowledge.
4. No, MOST women do not cheat. . . at least not in my world.

[Kelley1]

France prohibits direct-to-consumer (DTC) genetic testing, meaning companies are not allowed to sell or provide these tests to the public. Individuals who purchase and use DNA tests outside the legal exceptions can face fines of up to €3,750 (approximately $4,000 USD).

The primary concern is that paternity tests could disrupt family relationships and cause conflict. That is, husbands might discover they are NOT the biological father.

[OlderAndWiser]

Glad I live in the US!

[Dongie]

Really? That's a plus for the guy being able to avoid conflict.

[Kelley1]

@OlderAndWiser Don't be overjoyed. How long before the US follows the example of France?

[OlderAndWiser]

Very likely not during my lifetime.

[Finchie40]

If he doesn’t trust her , then that’s his choice on whether he wants a paternity test or not , she can be upset all she wants , but if he has any kind of suspicions, then I don’t blame him from wanting one. , Some girls’ are serial cheaters , that bounce on clock after cock , Haven’t you watched Maury? Some of the women on there had 20 different guys’ tested and it turned out none of them were the father , So if he has any doubts or suspicions that the baby is his , he has every right to know the truth

[Finchie40]

I just watched a husband divorcing his wife because he found out the baby wasn’t his , He divorced her and kicked her out of the house the second he got the results that the baby wasn’t his , I would do the same shit if I found out one of my children wasn’t t mine because she is a cheating hoe , I would tell her to grab her shit and get the Fuck out of my life , thankfully all my kids’ look just like me , so I had no doubts with her whatsoever lol

[msc545]

I'm very sorry to tell you this and I am not telling you to cause trouble but I will tell you that just because a child looks like you does not mean under any circumstances that you are, the father. Get paternity tests for every one of your children. It doesn't cost that much and it's easy to do.

[Finchie40]

I know for a fact that they are my kids’ my wife was all over me the second we met and barely ever left my side , So the chances of her cheating on me , are very slim unless she got in another guy after we had sex 5 times a day or more , lol plus I use to wear condoms with her on the beginning , so it wasn’t u til I stopped wearing them is when she got pregnant. Plus my wife and I screwed like rabbits every day for a very long time , I know for a fact they are my babies lol

[Finchie40]

Now if she got pregnant now, i definitely know for a fact I am not the father because I am now shooting blanks with my vasectomy lol

[msc545]

Get tests, brother - don't assume things. You can even get test kits on the internet.

[msc545]

I understand that you probably don't want to know... but still... please get tests.

[OneViewpoint]

I can absolutely why a faithful wife and mother would be hurt by her husband asking for a paternity test. It's a display of lack of trust that will never be forgotten.

On the other hand, women cheat. Sometimes with good reason. Plus there's lots of temptation and opportunity for women in today's internet culture. So I can understand a man wanting to check under the hood before he buys that used car. he's signing up for a lifetime of time and effort and financial commitment.

So it comes down to "how well do you know and trust your partner". I never even had a thought about a paternity test for my two sons. My ex and I had discussed it and were trying to get pregnant. It wasn't some random surprise. But that all happened pre-internet culture and social media.

[Miristheiss]

Why is he asking for a test? You don't have to ask. The genetic info of the child and the dad are all that have to be compared. Her info is not needed at all.

He should have brought this up in the dating stage that he will get a paternity test on any woman he is with.

Anyway, since he failed to do that he should just take the nurse aside in the hall at the hospital during the birth and request a paternity test be done before he agrees to have his name put on the birth certificate. If it shows him as the father then he doesn't even have to ever tell her.

Why is he asking?

[Syntosi]

Not particularly no. First of all, this would just be a shit-show if it was implemented. Simply put, even if you disregard all the other issues such as privacy concerns, the actual paternity test is not accurate enough. While I have not looked up the reliability of them recently I would expect there to be hundreds of thousands of false responses in USA alone each year.

While DNA testing is a powerful tool you should not rely and put so much faith on it because its not perfect.

[msc545]

Paternity tests are completely accurate. I don't know where you get your information regarding a lack of accuracy, but this is DNA testing and it is deadly accurate.

[Syntosi]

@msc545 No its not.

[msc545]

Evidence?

[Syntosi]

@msc545 Well, this one for example:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7425842/

[Kelley1]

@Syntosi @msc545, You are both right. You are using different standards. As the article shows, using only 15 markers can result in a significant number of false outcomes. Most inexpensive labs use 16 markers (better, but result in a few false outcomes). Legal standards require up to 68 markers. They are greater than 99.99% accurate.

[Syntosi]

You can add more markers and increase the accuracy but it won't be 100% and there will also be procedural mistakes that adds further inaccuracy. Point is that there will be cases where through no fault of either parent the results will indicate that there was infidelity.

In fact, I would even argue that the higher the accuracy would be the less likely the victims of that false results would suspect that it might just be a false result and instead cause strife within the relationship.

At the end of the day I dont see the value in this to begin with but the fact that it is not 100% is just asking for problems where none needed to be had.

[msc545]

There's nothing wrong with the technology. There may be something wrong with the interpretation of the results or there may be something wrong with the actual conclusions. If not, enough markers are used. This is easily remedied by setting a standard for the number of markers that should be used.

[msc545]

Nothing is 100%. However, I would certainly bet on something that's 99.999%. it's also possible to repeat the testing if you get a result that is disturbing. Just because results are not 100% is not a reason to not do the testing at all since without it all you are left with is something really stupid like" the child looks like me" or something else ridiculous like that.

[Syntosi]

@msc545 Of course its nothing wrong with the technology, its just not for establishing absolute truths. By its very nature DNA testing is about trying to calculate how statistically likely something is and it can never reach 100%.

To VERY OVERLY SIMPLIFY the process its like looking at the number 10 and guessing by what equation you got to number 10. While you can use a bunch of clever tricks to figure out what the most likely equation is, you can never actually conclusively determine if you are right or not. Repeating the prediction does not really get you any closer than before either, you can guess however many times you want but you will never get closer to actually knowing.

Even if we want to argue that the test is 99.999% accurate that would still be 40 cases of false results a year in USA, give or take.

[msc545]

Nothing. It's 100% certain. However, as I indicated, if you don't like a test result, you can certainly repeat the test with different markers and you can do that in infinite number of times if you wish to. How many repetitions would it take to convince you that the result was correct if they were all the same result?

If we used your logic, we would never go out of the house because there is always a non-zero chance that you are going to be hit by a runaway car or by lightning. There are certainly cases when this happens, but it doesn't keep the rest of us from leaving the house. I think you need to come to terms with the fact that the universe is governed by probability, not by complete certainty.

[msc545]

If I were married and had a child and did the DNA testing and it showed somebody other than myself was the father. I would ask my wife about that. If she objected and said she had not slept with anybody else, I would do the logical thing and have the test redone using a different laboratory and many more markers. If the test came back with the same result, I would confront her with that and ask her what happened and if she continued to insist that I was the father, I would repeat the test yet again with the same changes. The third time around I would divorce her if it came back the same or not divorce her that if it came back differently and it showed that I was the father. Of course the error can run both ways so if I would have to repeat it a couple more times. This would get expensive but it's still cheaper than a divorce.

[Syntosi]

@msc545 Again, repeating the testing will not make the test more accurate. Furthermore the actual accuracy will not be anywhere near 99.999%, especially after considering human error during testing.

The problem here is not that there will be people who through random chance becomes victims. The problem is that you are actively creating innocent victims that never needed to exist. Furthermore you are doing it in pursuit of something that I think is pointless in the first place.

[msc545]

Have you ever taken statistics? And if you did, did you study probability? Because what you were suggesting is completely incorrect. Please think about how you would calculate the probability of two such tests in a row being wrong.

I think the real problem here is that you simply do not believe that paternity testing is a good idea. I'm a little unclear about why you feel that way. Maybe you could write about that instead of arguing statistics and probability with me since I used to teach courses in that.

[Syntosi]

@msc545 The inaccuracy with the DNA test is not because the test was performed incorrectly. Repeating it will just give you the same right or wrong results again. If you claim to have taught probability in class then I am confused why you think that performing the same calculation over and over again would yield different results.

Also I have made my stance on mandatory paternity testing clear already. I see no added value by it but I do see it causing problems that did not exist previously.

[msc545]

repeating the testing make the probability estimate more accurate in that the decision is binary - if you have multiple instances of the test telling you someone is NOT the father, do you still insist it is somehow wrong?

[msc545]

The added value is that a man does not have to pay child support, and he and the child know who the real father is. That is tremendous added value.

[msc545]

A repeated test would use different markers than used in the first one, increasing the total number of markers used, and thus the accuracy.

[Syntosi]

@msc545 No, that is not how that works at all. Again, the inaccuracy in DNA testing is not because there was a mistake during testing and you will get the same results if you run the same tests over and over again regardless if its a false positive or not.

If anything you are just reinforcing my argument that the average persons lack of understanding regarding DNA testing and their blind faith in the accuracy blinds them to the very real instances where it is wrong.

As for changing the markers or increasing the markers during successive testing, that does not address the core issue with the method.

And no, I do not consider having to unknowingly raise someone elses kid or pay for their child support to be overly important and I also consider that to be a social issue that is addressed through other methods. You are looking for an easy silver bullet and this is not it.

[Kelley1]

@Syntosi You are very inconsistent. You reject DNA because it is not 100% perfect. Nevertheless, you drive a car, and when you do, you are not 100% certain that you will not be in an accident. Life is not perfect. It is better to punish one wife who is not guilty than not to punish 1,000 guilty wives.

If 100 wives are falsely accused and punished, in the big scheme of things, it matters to them, but not to our society because it would be far worse to let one million guilty wives go unpunished.

[msc545]

@Kelley1 Well said. There is something else going on here that he will not talk about. He is far too smart to be objecting to this on mathematical grounds.

[Syntosi]

@Kelley1
Let me clarify my position again then.

I got nothing against DNA testing and I see it as a useful tool. I however am aware that it is not a perfect tool which means that in my mind it can be misused. For example, I am against a court case being determined on DNA being the single evidence. If DNA was used to corroborate other evidence in a broader case then I have no problems with it.

In fact, I am not even against paternity testing as a principle if the parents choose it themselves. My problem is that making paternity testing mandatory violates their agency and puts them at the mercy of a single test that we already know is flawed, to put it in somewhat dramatic terms. They objectively did not choose to perform the paternity test, since that is already available and most people do not use it, and yet it is being forced upon them with all the problems that comes with it.

If there was a good justification for it, such as with vaccines being required for public health, or if the DNA test was 100% accurate then I would not mind. But I dont think the possibility of maybe finding out the real father of the child is important enough and as we have already established, the test is not 100% accurate so I object to it on the principle of how it is enforced.

Furthermore, if we are talking about whom I value the most between guilty wives or innocent then I view this similarly to how I view the death penalty. One innocent victim is infinitely more important than any number of guilty. Your issue with cheating should and could be handled in some other way.

[msc545]

Do you have children of your own?

[msc545]

Also name one single thing that you know of that is 100% accurate.

[msc545]

Also, since you don't think that people should be forced to have paternity tests, that would be fine as long as child support was optional and as long as men were treated the same in custody cases as women are that is men actually getting to have some custody of their children instead of being reduced to weekends or less than that and and imposed upon with expensive supervised visitation because the woman wide about them being violent or a molester. This happens all the time to men. I find it fairly disgusting that you are a man, yet you don't support men's issues.

[Syntosi]

@msc545 If we are talking about epistemology then "I think, therefore I am". Beyond that basic observation we need to start making assumptions such as "Some of my senses are correct at least some of the time" which allows us to build knowledge based on those senses. Things like observing that the earth is round, that Donald Trump is the US president or that fire is hot.

Of course, our senses might never be true, you might be living in a simulation right now as a brain inside of a jar. I suppose the question is, if you got an answer on if you were living inside a simulation that was 99.999% accurate, would that be more helpful or harmful to you?

Also dont come in here and pretend that this is abouts mens rights. Its not. I am all for equal rights in custody battles but the rest of that is just nonsense that does not make logical sense. There is no argument why child support should be optional. There is no reason why false rape or molestation accusations would be relevant. And lastly, if we are going to talk about your rights then the government has no right to your DNA which includes paternity testing.

I am the one standing up for your rights here while you are just trying to exact some idea of benefits or perhaps revenge against the female gender. What you want is not fairness or equality, you want discrimination with the caveat that you are the one who gets to do the discrimination against others.

[msc545]

No, I want fairness toward men in the courts, especially in criminal courts (where women get lesser sentences for the same offenses) and in family law courts (where women get the money, the children, and the property, and men get the bills).

Please don't presume to lecture me on Family Law Courts unless you have been in one as a party like I have.

[Syntosi]

@msc545
"Please don't presume to lecture me on Family Law Courts unless you have been in one as a party like I have."

When I read that, what I hear in my head is "I have personal feelings and circumstances that makes my position on this subject biased and not rooted in objective logic" which honestly tracks with the rest of the things you have said and believe in.

[Kelley1]

@msc545 I have given up on him. It is a waste of my time and energy to argue.

[Syntosi]

@Kelley1
Oh really? You have given up on me when I have logical basis for everything I say and the facts on my side but you side with @msc545 when he literally comes out and says "Well you have not suffered emotional trauma like I have so you are not allowed to have an opinion or present facts on this topic"?

Wow.. Just wow..

[msc545]

@Syntosi When I read this, I hear "I have never had the experience, but my superior logic makes me an expert on it nonetheless".

[msc545]

@Kelley1 He is a person who is capable of a lot of "logic" without having all of the facts, and who reaches conclusions based on his limited knowledge and truncated, if not absent, experience.

[Syntosi]

@msc545 It was never about the "experience", it was about that being a "transformative moment" in your life AKA fucking psychological trauma. You need therapy dude.

[msc545]

I'm sorry my friend, but I think I know a little bit more about psychology than you do. If you want to argue credentials we can get into that, but it"s probably unwise of you to start that with me.

[Syntosi]

@msc545 Sure, sure. So tell me again how the proximity to emotionally sensitive situations makes you more qualified to having a well reasoned and rational position on it. Its like you never heard about the word "bias" before but thats not the case since you are actively arguing that its a GOOD thing as if I am stupid enough to buy such obvious bullshit.

[msc545]

And.. you are blocked. If you cannot be polite, you are not worth talking to.

[Syntosi]

Politeness my ass. You are just running away from the fact that you messed up and exposed yourself for the hateful human being you are. Not that I care particularly, I could live the rest of my life without ever seeing you and I would most likely be happier for it.

[Ariesman81]

Any woman that uses the "You don't trust me" excuse is automatically a candidate for a paternity test. Same goes for a woman who says "you don't love me" when asked about a prenup.

[Kelley1]

Men should understand that we always put our self-interest first and rightfully so.

[Ariesman81]

The ones who put her man's needs first become wives.

[Kelley1]

That is true because all five such women in the USA are wives.

[msc545]

You and I do not agree on very much but these are two things that we are in total agreement over as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for posting this.

[msc545]

The commander just made is intended for Aries man. Not you. Kelly.

[msc545]

Comment. I hate no autocorrect.

[Ariesman81]

@msc545

It's more like Stiffler/Finch thing we got going on.
And yes..."Voltaire can suck on these balls"

[msc545]

Excuse my ignorance but what is the Stifler/finch thing?

[Ariesman81]

@msc545

Bro... what? You got a movie marathon in your future. American Pie... get to it.

[msc545]

Oh dear, okay, I can see that my evening is already taken up with this. I don't know whether to thank you for this or not but after I watch it I'll let you know

[Shiprex]

A man does not have any obligation to bring up a woman's child if it is another man's. That kind of justification of abuse needs to be addressed and compulsory testing would mean women would then have to be held accountable for cheating in marriage AND there should be legal consequences of this should children be brought up that are not his by deceit.

Like a contract in law where you promise the partner to do something then get sued when you do it differently or not at all

[ProbablyClueless]

Paternity tests should be mandatory any time the man is being asked to financially support the mother and child.

They aren't particularly expensive tests, and the disclosure is essential for the peace of mind of everyone involved.

[Surely]

I can understand both sides of the argument. But after watching some of the paternity court cases on TV. There seems to be reason for some guys to have doubts about the faithfulness of their mates.
Maybe paternity tests should be mandatory in child support cases!

[Charliefretz329]

Any woman who opposes the idea is immediately untrustworthy in my opinion. Many women are completely ok with a test.

[Kelley1]

Even if we never cheat, we know the temptation to cheat is intense. Therefore, we know that in the future, we may not always be certain who the father is. Therefore, it is better to use the "You don't trust me" excuse rather than risk what might happen sometime in the future. That is true even when in the current situation we are certain that our husband is the father.

[Charliefretz329]

Yikes

[msc545]

You might also want to consider the fact that the child has the right to know who his father is. This is something that women never seem to consider in the midst of their selfishness regarding this issue.

[Kelley1]

@msc545 Unless in the unlikely event, there are medical reasons, who the child believes to be his father doesn't matter. Throughout all human history, women have cheated, and 10% or more of the presumed fathers are not the biological father, and the human race has done well without children knowing who their biological father is.

[msc545]

I'm sorry but you are completely wrong about this. Who your father is matters a great deal for medical and psychological reasons. I was adopted at birth or shortly thereafter and I went years without knowing who my father was. When I finally did find out who we was he was dead so I was deprived of having a relationship with him. I also found out his medical history which was actually good for me in that the man lived to be 98 years old. Based on that alone, I think that I probably will live to at least 90 if not longer. I certainly hope so. Without knowing who he was, I also would not know about my Italian heritage from a small village in Sicily. All of those things are of great importance to me. It's easy for you to sit back and say it isn't important, but I tell you you are quite wrong about that.

[Kelley1]

@msc545 You are arguing a medical reason that I stated was a reason. Therefore, it is not I but you who are completely wrong.

[msc545]

I also argued psychological reasons which you ignored.

[Gwendoline]

Some figures say paternity fraud is as high as 1in3 and I know in france the government has bared fathers from getting them.

[msc545]

Yes, I guess it's really annoying when you can't lie to your child and you can't lie to your husband and you're still entitled to a ton of money. Too bad for you. We do it anyway and when we do you are out the money and you can no longer tell lies and of course this is why women object to it.

[Gwendoline]

@msc545 also every child should have the right from birth to know who their father is.

[msc545]

@gwendoline Absolutely right!

[jshm2]

LOL, you've got it the wrong way round.

Paternity tests are not simply to check for infidelity, there are many other issues it can highlight.

[DonaldDarko]

Probably a mandatory paternity test is the answer. The government takes the blame that way and it prevents fraud.

[Twalli]

Most women don't ever cheat. Really, the only reason for a paternity test is if the father is being asked to pay child support. If he's not the father, he doesn't have to provide for the child.

[msc545]

There are many other reasons for a paternity test including child support and psychological well-being.

[Twalli]

Update, thrn a man should be able to stray for hotter sex. After all if she's giving him a better genetic baby he should enjoy the better genetics of a young woman whrn his wife loses her looks.

[msc545]

Yeah I saw that post on here too. I've seen posts like that a few times before and of course they are stupidly infuriating.. I'm not sure who the author of them is, but whoever it is is simply a troll.

[Kelley1]

That has never been how it is. A husband had two choices. (1) Fuck an equal, typically his wife, (2) Fuck down. He cannot fuck better. Wives can fuck better. Husbands cannot. However, when his wife ages and becomes fat, she becomes less than his equal and he can find an equal to cheat with and fuck.

[msc545]

Just like women, men can fuck whoever they choose to fuck for the most part. Your descriptions of up and down are remarkably obtuse.

[Dongie]

It should be and rescue dad's all across America. I'm sure most guys don't need this but for the ones that do sheesh!

[RedInnocent69]

Since that only works one way, how do you feel as a girl?

[Kelley1]

Since he can get a DNA test, regardless, it is not something she can hide for long. In the best interest of her baby, she fucked for superior genes and she gave her husband a prettier and ultimately a more talented baby. Therefore, he should be happy, maybe grateful.

[RedInnocent69]

Right… But it’s not his. If you ask most guys, they actually don’t want a baby in the first place; it’s always the girl. Biology’s funny that way, I guess.

[Pohjolan]

Women would just start using birth control while cheating but sure societally that would be a improvement.

[exitseven]

Do it on the down low

[msc545]

It is probably better to conceal the fact that you are doing it or that you have done it, but it still needs to be done. Every single time a child is born it needs to be done.

[Kelley1]

@msc545 Is it possible there is a wife who doesn't snoop when the husband is not home, and without his knowledge, examines his pockets and clothes for any scrap piece of paper with a phone number, the smell of perfume, or long hair, and looks through his mail and cellphone?

[msc545]

It is possible but very unlikely. That's why we take great great precautions to keep you from finding anything that would provoke a confrontation in the same way that you take great precautions to make sure that we don't find out about all the cheating you are doing.

[DrPepper12]

Women have secrets. DEEP DARK SECRETS...

[Panthero80]

I don't know how you would enforce that.

[Panthero80]

Your "fucking up" and "better genes" nonsense is very Nazi-like. I can assure no reasonable man would be happy if his wife cheated on him. You seem obsessed with this type of delusion.

[Kelley1]

You are wrong in your assumption. I have talked to 3 men (not men I would marry) who told me they would be okay with me having sex to get pregnant with a superior man and would support the baby.