Should Trump pardon the former cop who murdered George Floyd?

[msc545]

George Floyd was murdered by Derek Chauvin who was subsequently convicted of murder and sentenced to 22 years in prison. Chauvin was convicted in state court and again in federal court as well and is currently serving 22 years in a Texas federal prison. Federal prisons are generally safer than state prisons and if Trump pardons him, he would be transferred to a state prison in Minnesota where his circumstances might become even worse than they already are. Trump cannot pardon him for the state charges and he would still be facing those.

Do you think Trump should pardon him? If so, why?

[Ariesman81]

Tough call. On the one hand, Chauvin was probably desensitized due to the nature of his work. North Minneapolis is a rough neighborhood. I can understand that empathy only garners so much respect. Judging by Chauvin's history, I'd say he lacked empathy for the neighborhood he served. On the other hand, you have Floyd, by no means an upstanding resident of his community. Judging by toxicology reports and prior arrests. But still deserving of respect.

The coroner's report said cause of death was overdose. I can understand why the black community calls it BS as the force applied was probably excessive, even though trained by the police.

I don't think Chauvin should be pardoned. But neither Chauvin or Floyd were innocent.

[msc545]

The coroner's report absolutely did NOT say overdose. There are a number of substances listed in the blood and tissues in trace amounts - far from being an "overdose".

[Ariesman81]

Correction taken.
From the New York Times
"Here, context matters. Dr. Baker told prosecutors that if Mr. Floyd had been “found dead at home alone” with “no other apparent causes,” they wrote, it could have been acceptable to determine that Mr. Floyd died of an overdose because of the relatively high levels of fentanyl found in his blood collected at the hospital."

[msc545]

I don't know which doctor you're talking about, but the levels of fentanyl in the blood were actually far below. What would be needed for an overdose. Why don't you just go ahead and check this. I happen to know it's accurate but go ahead and check it for yourself.

[Ariesman81]

Dr. Baker was the coroner in the Floyd case. It was his testimony in the Floyd case.

[msc545]

I can't recall if he was the coroner or not, but he may have been the medical examiner that actually did the autopsy. That said, I think you are misinterpreting the results of the autopsy in that fentanyl and metabolite of fentanyl are listed in the autopsy report, but they are in such minuscule quantities that they couldn't possibly have caused an overdose. Compare the lethal dose of fentanyl which is clearly listed along with the actual amount found and you will see what I'm talking about.

[msc545]

Baker may have been the person that did the autopsy which is not the person who analyzed the toxicology results.

[Ariesman81]

Dr. Baker was the Medical Examiner that ruled it a homicide. The above quote was his testimony in the Floyd case. If you don't agree with his testimony, then perhaps his testimony should be stricken from the record.

[msc545]

I like to see something that says that he actually said that. It's hard to believe that he would make that kind of mistake.

[Ariesman81]

You'd have to find the actual court reports if you want to hear it from Dr. Baker's mouth. I am going off an article written by the New York Times.

[msc545]

I did this once before when I had a copy of the actual autopsy report, but I cannot find it again now. If you happen to find it please let me know, thanks!

[msc545]

Ok, I found it. It was not an overdose.

[Ariesman81]

Dr. Baker concluded that the cause of death was a heart attack and that his lungs quit working. He ruled it a homicide. Was there excessive force... yes. Were there extenuating circumstances... yes. Was Mr Floyd resisting arrest... yes. Was Chauvin quick to escalate... yes.
It's a truly horrendous encounter between two guilty men. And the result is two men lost their lives because of it.

[Ariesman81]

@msc545
I see your question about the family court was removed. It was a good topic. And I could tell you stories!

[msc545]

It was removed?

[Ariesman81]

Didn't let me respond

[msc545]

oh... sorry. Not my doing...

[Ariesman81]

The irony... even here it's inappropriate to hold women accountable.

[Amy10223]

Ariesman81, Yes, both were not the "best" kind of person you would want to be friends with. But at the time it happened, Floyd was not guilty. Guilty of what? Selling cigarettes? Chauvin used excessive pressure to his windpipe, which caused his death. He was the guilty one, not Floyd. Was Floyd resisting arrest? How could he be resisting arrest in such a position? He called out for his mother because he knew what was going to come. If you were being arrested for nothing, would you just stand there and be arrested or would you also argue and ask questions? I know I would. That's what Mr. Floyd did--he was doing nothing wrong except selling cigarettes to people on the street and that was not cause enough to put a man in a chokehold.

[MisterWack]

Derek Chauvin has state charges, yes as you described.

A Presidential pardon only gets rid of Federal charges so, he would still be in prison for years. Elon Musk was floating the idea for Right Wing support, though other than that isn’t thrilled to do it knowing it would be seen as a failure in the long term or he doesn’t actually care.

[msc545]

I don't understand. Right-wing support doesn't get him out of prison.

[MisterWack]

@msc545 Elon Musk just said that to get his Right Wing base supporting him.
That is my best guess, like he doesn’t actually care to free him. Just cares about winning points with his Right Wing audience on X.

[msc545]

oh I see. right!

[Amy10223]

No, he should not. This man was very guilty of what he did. He knew exactly what he was doing while Mr. Floyd begged to be released from his illegal choke hold--and he had no mercy. Let him rot in jail

[lightbulb27]

maybe chauvin after a period of time... like shorten sentence. I'd have to review evidence which includes looking at what was withheld to ensure he was convicted. I understand he did as instructed, but it was wrong to watch him suffocate eventhough he'd just been kicked in the face by abused by Floyd as he lost it going into the car. I may be wrong in what I know.

I've never seen a cop let someone up in those cases.

definitely the other cops, one was not involved, the other was doing crowd control.

[msc545]

Floyd did not kick anyone.

[lightbulb27]

you may be right, although AI says there's some evidence he did. I recall him kicking, but may not have hit officer. He resited getting into the car... because he was clausterphobic. However he wasn't clausterophic sitting in the tiny car attempting to smoke.. to deal with all the pain he had, including difficulty breathing from covid. He was messed up.
https://youtu.be/XkEGGLu_fNU?t=528
If he could have calmed down and got into the car, he'd gotten a cup of coffee at least, been released, and be dead now from waiting for insurance to approve cancer treatment, and some other people still be alive.
It wasn't just the police that brought about his death in my view, putting 100% on them is not right.

[msc545]

He was upset, but generally, we do not execute people for being upset. He was killed by a cop kneeling on his neck, and his death was 100% the fault of that cop.

[lightbulb27]

"It was the stress of that interaction that tipped him over the edge given his underlying heart disease and his toxicological status."
it wasn't strangulation or the knee... but stress. He was a key cause of the stress.
All of the prior cops that knelt on people, that I saw, were released... no jail. Yet DC gets 40 years? Don't make sense... a political decision to control population.

[msc545]

He murdered Floyd. Do you think he should have just been released?

[lightbulb27]

no, I don't t hink any of the others I saw should have been released either... based upon what I know. I do think he needs a fair trial, I don't believe he got that. not life in prison from what I recall. Kim Potter shot a guy dead by mistake... she's free.. less than 3 years. Probably less than 10yrs.
I'd evaluate punishing the city and people that put the rules in place. Of what I heard, he followed the rules. They changed the laws before he was convicted.

Some practices need put in place to handle uncooperative stressed out people. like cool down time, and providing options as opposed to one option force. Give people options, they have control and less stress.
Lastly, citizens need to submit to police legal commands... or else face still punishment. needs training for citizens nationally.
I don't believe anything substantially was changed other than allowing criminals to get away with crimes in my area, and that has been disappointing as people get away with all kinds of crap.. because they don't fear the law.

[msc545]

He had a fair trial. Just because you don't like the outcome doesn't mean that the trial was unfair. And just because you don't like the outcome doesn't mean that anything should be changed.

[lightbulb27]

I don't see how he could have had a fair trial given the situation, as well as what was not presented, and how they changed laws after. I've been on a jury, I see how these things work to tilt the deck... the judge writes the rules, the politicians pull the judge behind the scene. There was only one outcome possible in this case or would be havoc.
I don't trust that trial, it was too inflamed. Given the extreme... EVERY prior officer that knelt on a white suspect to death walked... there's something wrong.

[msc545]

No other police officer has done what chauvin did as far as I know. I'm sorry you didn't like the outcome of the case, but I thought the trial was quite fair in that both sides got to present a lot of evidence and there was after all a jury of 12 people. Not liking an outcome is one thing but deciding that the trial was biased in some way because of that dislike is unreasonable. That is exactly the same thing as calling an election fraudulent because you don't like the outcome of it even though you have no evidence of fraud.

[lightbulb27]

I will lookup the other videos I watched after girlfriend death if it helps you. There's a reason my city at the time and others banned that technique... review boards saw the prior damage. I undrestand that banning did not happen in all districts. There were multiple deaths, various races of cops, all were white. After girlfriend... an Asian man died similar way in his home... officer did not go to jail.
To be fair, I've seen a few videos of cops fighting for their lives and one case dying, because the suspect held down got up. In this case, girlfriend was cuffed that wasn't a risk.
What happened to girlfriend was definitely wrong from my viewpoint. But DC looks like was treated unfair.
I could be wrong... I don't know everything...

[ProbablyClueless]

No. Those are state charges. And Chauvin has a long record of behavioral incidents of him doing overly aggressive restraints.


I don’t appreciate how they finally got him, but that man shouldn’t be running around the public.

[abc3643]

He can't.
Derek Chauvin is convicted under Minnesota law. Presidential pardoning power only is applicable to federal crimes. Trump CAN pardon Chauvin for any federal convictions.

[David318578]

Trump pardoning him wouldn't change anything, Trump's pardons has nothing to do with state crimes.

[beefcakebradybatson]

H**L to the NO !! You racists believe Floyd, a large, ugly African American man, was a black beast who had to be slain by a white knight cop. In other words, you're white supremacists.

[blackeagle007]

I read disgusting things on how that cop was innocent etc The video was so clear on what happened!! That cop was clearly kneeling on Floyd’s neck. It was unnecessary. Sadly the only way to prove police are in the wrong is by video. These right wingers are so closed minded and think every cop is perfect. Ugh!! Our society sucks 😡

[DrPepper12]

If, sorry, WHEN he wants to declare martial law he could do worse than this Riechstag Fire 🔥

[Twalli]

He can't be, unless the murder was charged in a federal court. That was why Trump wanted all of his charges to be federal, the president can pardon federal crimes, but not state crimes.

[IHateBeingaMan]

if that does happen, it will cause me to hate trump even more than i already do

[Sevenpointfive]

no. that cop did kill him.

[Agape93]

No but he will