Why is it that in family law courts women STILL get the money, the children, and the property, and men get the bills?

[msc545]

[MzAsh]

It’s not that “courts always side with women.” It’s that most men don’t actually fight for custody. According to the U. S. Census, only about 20% of custodial parents are fathers [Census, 2018], but that’s largely because the majority of fathers don’t request primary custody in the first place [APA, 2011].

When they do fight for custody? They actually win more often than not. In contested cases, 60–70% of fathers who seek custody get either joint or full custody [Fabricius, 2010; Braver & O’Connell, 1991]. So courts aren’t snatching kids away from eager, involved dads left and right.

Also, family law is gender-neutral. Judges are legally required to rule in the child’s best interest. What often tips the scale is who’s been doing the daily parenting. And statistically, moms still handle the bulk of that pre divorce [Pew Research, 2020].

So if a dad walks into court having done little parenting, never learned the pediatrician’s name, and expects 50/50 just because he showed up? He’s not losing to the system. He’s losing to the facts.

[msc545]

Majority of your information is very old based on the citation dates in your post. Do you have anything more recent or is this the best you can do?

[msc545]

In case anybody is wondering, yes, I deleted the information from Apple because all she does is trash, men and lie. I'm not interested in people posting lies on my questions. Not anymore. I warned her about this and she ignored me.

[MzAsh]

You asked for sources, got them. Didn’t like the outcome, so now the excuse is “too old,” despite the Pew Research stat being from 2020 and U. S. Census data from 2018 which in research terms is recent. You want more recent, cool. Go check the 2023 Census update, still shows moms make up the majority of custodial parents. Still no evidence of a court system that strips rights from qualified, involved dads.

[msc545]

Things change over time, and your dated material doesn't reflect that, naturally, because you cherry-picked it to support your pre-determined conclusions. I don't much care what your conclusions are but don't expect to get by using 15-year-old material like the research you quoted.

Moms make up the majority of custodial parents *because they are the people courts award custody to* - obviously.

[MzAsh]

You claim that moms get custody because courts give it to them while ignoring why courts do that… they assess who’s already doing the parenting. And in most cases, that’s the mom.

A 2023 Pew Research Center study found that even when women are the primary earners in their households, they still spend more time on child caregiving and housework than their husbands. Specifically, mothers in these households average about 13 hours per week on caregiving activities, while fathers average around 8.9 hours.

Among married couples in the United States, women’s financial contributions have grown steadily over the last half century. Even when earnings are similar, husbands spend more time on paid work and leisure, while wives devote more time to caregiving and housework.

https://pewrsr.ch/3Af1q1n

Also, the sources I referenced aren’t outdated, 2020 and 2018 are among the most recent large scale studies available. If you have newer, peer reviewed data showing courts awarding custody to uninvolved moms over active dads solely based on gender, feel free to drop those receipts.

[msc545]

Yes the mom's taking care of the kids because most women expect the man to support them and men do this. In order to support you we have to work. If we have to work we can't spend time doing child care or at least not very much of it.

[msc545]

Would you rather have the man sweeping floors and doing laundry and dishes? Or would you rather have him going out and earning enough money to keep food in your mouth and a roof over your head? You can't have it both ways.

[MzAsh]

You’re saying men can’t be involved parents because they’re busy working, as if women aren’t working and parenting and cooking and cleaning.

The irony is in your last sentence “You can’t have it both ways.”
Exactly. And yet, women do.
They work full time, then come home to do most of the caregiving and housework. Even in households where they earn more than their husbands, women still do more domestic labor and childcare.
So it’s not that men can’t be involved. It’s that some choose not to be, then act shocked when the courts notice who’s been doing the actual hands on parenting.

If your idea of “providing” stops at paying bills and excludes showing up for your kids emotionally and practically, don’t be mad when you don’t get 50/50 custody.

[msc545]

It's fine that you say these things, but the truth is you wouldn't tolerate them. Most women want to stay home or go out to lunch with their friends or spend time with their boyfriends while their husbands do the hard work of paying for a house and putting food on the table. This is especially important in today's economy which is run by right-wing trash.

[msc545]

Also your comment that family law courts note are gender neutral. It's just laughable. For most judges, particularly elected ones gender-neutral means give all the property and the money and the children to the woman in the divorce and give the bills to the man. And that is exactly what happens more often than not. This all has a lot to do. Why a great many men refuse to even consider the idea of getting married. At this point in this country. Nobody wants to sign a contract in which they can totally get their life ruined and that is exactly what marriage is in the US these days.

[MzAsh]

You’re talking about an arrangement like “man works, woman stays home” as if most modern women couldn’t handle that. But a lot of us already are the breadwinners, myself included. I’ve personally carried the financial load in my marriage for years. I don’t mind it at all, as long as the house is clean and I’m not expected to do everything else, too. That’s the part men never seem to consider. It’s not that women “won’t tolerate” a reverse traditional setup, it’s that we already tolerate a lopsided one. The issue isn’t the arrangement, it’s the entitlement and lack of reciprocity.

As for your idea about marriage being a trap, that’s only true for people who make dumb decisions. Smart men, the emotionally mature, high quality ones, know how to position themselves. They build wisely, choose wisely, and create partnerships that work. The problem isn’t marriage. The problem is people who treat marriage like a gamble instead of a strategy.

You mitigate risk by showing up, growing up, and choosing better. That’s how grown folks do it.

[msc545]

We mitigrate risk by avoiding women like you who blame men for everything bad that happens.

[MzAsh]

So when you say “women like me,” what exactly do you mean? Be specific.
Is it women who challenge generalizations? Women who expect reciprocal effort? Or just women who won’t tolerate being talked down to?

[msc545]

Women who won't admit their mistakes and who can't be reasoned with - like you, for instance.

[KateCrombie]

Because children need their mothers more than their fathers… men are mostly careless and it’s not safe leaving the child with them…

[msc545]

Yes it's very safe. That is why most child deaths and injuries are caused by mothers. Mothers who are either very careless or very vicious or both.

[Anonymous]

It made sense for back when it was first made since women were seen as their sole purpose is a housewife, as more women opted to join the job market / get higher education / move up in the world, the laws should’ve changed.

I see it is a failure in time, like Reaganomics and not increasing the minimum wage to cover the minimum cost of living for Americans to not live paycheck to paycheck.

In certain cases, women need the money, children, and property though in majority of cases today I believe men deserve more. Might I add, that for the women I see divorce where their husband makes them “disappear” with no evidence to lock them away and they were killed by a weapon which they had no right to have…. If you are in a divorce dispute or any family dispute, the man / woman shouldn’t be allowed to have weaponry until the issue has been resolved in full. We lost too many people that way.

The law has a slow time to adapt, though I say fuck that and fix this God forsaken system.

[exitseven]

The judge is usually female and they usually pick a female judge that hates men almost as much as she hates cops.

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO😎

[OneViewpoint]

Personal opinion. I have no data to back it up. There are many more bad fathers out there than bad mothers. So all these men can be compelled to contribute to their kid's upbringing is money. The courts are not doing brain surgery, they are using hand grenades to solve complex problems. It will never be perfect.

[Twalli]

It's still believed that a mother is more important to children than a father. Children need a stable home to grow up in. They also need enough $ to not suffer. Since they have a mother, she gets the home room raise them in and money to help in supporting them financially.
There are exceptions. My sister in law makes more than her ex. She is also mostly responsible for the children. He pays very little because 1) he doesn't have much and 2) the primary caregiver is of a better financial state

[Sevenpointfive]

because this wave of feminism is close to an end and this will come up! i don't think they'll ever get the kids, but they will end up getting closer to half and without a crazy child support.

[Anonymous]

Two of my neighbors the man has custody. One of them is a complete aHole. The mother waited until the monster was a teen before wanting to start seeing him. I had assumed she was dead. Speaks volumes of some woman.

[Ariesman81]

I've heard it said that there are only 2 happily divorced fathers. The one with 0% custody and the one with 100% custody. The older my kid gets, the truer it becomes.

[Agape93]

Because that's the system you all set up for some stupid reason

[WonderingManII]

This is why MGTOW exists. Things are not fair.

[Panthero80]

What is MGTOW?

[WonderingManII]

@Panthero80 From Google:

MGTOW stands for Men Going Their Own Way. It is a largely online community and movement within the "manosphere" that advocates for male separatism and self-empowerment by avoiding serious relationships with women

Core Beliefs:

Rejection of Marriage and Relationships: MGTOWs believe that marriage and long-term relationships are inherently risky and disadvantageous for men, particularly in modern society.

Male Self-Empowerment: MGTOWs advocate for men to prioritize their own well-being, financial independence, and personal development rather than focusing on relationships with women.

Critique of Feminism and "Gynocentric" Society: Many MGTOWs believe that feminism has created a society that unfairly favors women at the expense of men.

Separation and Disengagement: MGTOW ideology encourages men to disengage from societal norms and expectations that they perceive as detrimental to men.

[Panthero80]

Thank you.

[beefcakebradybatson]

Divorce laws hearken back to when men were the sole breadwinner and they've remained constant though some broads out-earn their husband.

[slatyb]

Divorce laws do not give preference to women. I had custody of my kid and received support from the mother.

[Anonymous]

I think women get the kids because men work overwhelmingly more than women and that's seen as a bad thing.

It's all bullshit, though.

[Anonymous]

Law is liberal, the kill all men (KAM) movement liberal and this is one of their key facets in the obtainment of their objective

[blackeagle007]

Women are terrible