There’s an old saying:
“Existing the toilet is not like entering it”
Israel came by force and established itself by force in a region that has never wanted it.
They picked a fight with everyone.
And now they have to keep fighting without purpose because if they suddenly stop they will be faced with the only outcome which is destruction
This is what happens when a small group of world leaders decide to impose a major geopolitical change on a region of the world without anyone’s consent
So long as Israel exists there will be death and carnage both for them and for anyone unlucky enough to be their next door neighbor
It's more nuanced than that. In reality, several countries in the region are beginning to want to normalise their relations with Israel. Even Iran, before the Shah was overthrown, was an ally of Israel. And frankly, many countries in the region are happy with what's happening against Iran (which has many enemies) and on the subject of Gaza, the Arab countries haven't rushed to defend the Palestinian cause.
I happen to be speaking from very personal experience on this one.
You’re right Iran doesn’t have a lot of friends in the middle east
And neither do the Palestinians.
But there’s decades of history now. Most of it bad
But you can be sure no one is a true ally to Israel.
No one is sitting there thinking this is a good thing
The middle east was an ottoman colony for centuries and then it got it’s freedom after the wars
Every country had a taste of prosperity for a quick minute and it was supposed to stay that way
But then the palestinians and zionists started fighting and involved everyone else against their will.
The resistance would take refuge in neighboring countries and use them to strike at Israel so Israel would bomb these countries with total disregard to any form of international law.
Because it’s the same story from day 1: Israel can get away with anything.
At no point has the UN been capable of saying “this is a crime and you must stop or else”
The results are pain misery and poverty for everyone around
And if you’re a kid from one of these places you never once cared or chose a side but you still had to deal with all the repercussions.
So yes the cycle is very long and paved with a lot of blood
It won’t just end on its own like this
Simple. The president of Israel is wildly unpopular and can only maintain his support and usage of power domestically by starting conflicts abroad. It is a very common strategy for authoritarian leaders and it works even better if its a conflict that never ends or can't be won.
They want to maintain two conflicting perceptions. One that their enemies are strong so that you must stand united against them and sacrifice your freedoms and rights. The second one is that the enemy is weak and pathetic and that they are inferior to your superior culture and people because you are the "chosen ones" etc..
In middle east when you don't kill others, you won't be respected and when you are being killed you will be despised. Israel wants to show that they are ruthless killers and everyone need to fear them.
However Jews aren't good soldiers. Maybe they are better than Arabs which are natural cowards but as Jews lived in Europe their aggressive actions were always severely punished. They tried similar things like they did in Palestine but failed every time.
"However Jews aren't good soldiers."
Right, but they happen to have some of the least friendly fire incidents in military history..
@Joshydavid25 According to their own reports, of course.
Yeah... That's how reports work.. Naturally governments will send people to report on their own armies casualties and the causes of them.. They haven't given the world any reason they would make the numbers up so far..
@Joshydavid25 Chosen one will never tell you the truth, This is written in their Torahs
I don't see why they wouldn't.. And it would also be against their morals to lie.. Not that anyone's perfect..
Opinion
20Opinion
SAFETY AND SECURITY!!!
Iran has claimed it wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth for decades. Hence, they cannot be allowed to have a nuclear bomb. They are the world's top supporter of terror.
They have funded and armed Hezbollah and Hamas on Israel's border to support constant attacks against Israel.
Israel wants the threat of IRAN and their puppets HAMAS and HEZBOLLAH GONE.
A regime change in Iran with peaceful, non religious moderates wouldn't hurt.
They basically just want to be left alone.. It's not Israel's fault that they are in a very hostile region, and it's easy to look at from a side view and see their military dominance and think that they are the bully, but really they're the wrong the bullies decided to mess with.. And now some might pay the price..
What justifies Israel's strikes today? Iran's nuclear programme? But the Iranians are not yet ready to have the bomb, even the American intelligence service says so. And for what result? The Israelis will only delay the Iranian nuclear programme. They won't stop it, unless they invade the country. And if there is a regime change, what will be the consequences? Won't that create a security abyss? Wouldn't it create massive immigration and, above all, terrorists taking advantage of the situation?
Are you even serious? Their origins go back to terrorist activities that caused conflicts in the region, where jews and muslims were getting alone just fine for centuries.
They're viciously barbaric, they believe Israel is a jewish ethno state that is formed around Judaism. Anyone who don't believe their "supreriority" in the region as its sole rulers are unwanted.
They treat their %25 muslim population as second class citizens, they apply military law upon occupied people of West Bank, they continiously steal land and property, forcing Arabs out of their homes and give them to random Jews moving there from Europe and US
They are not even pretending that they are not committing genocide, they call displacing millions of people through violence and terror "Their right"
What the fuck you are on about being left alone? Israel is the perpetrator of violence, it was never non-violent and it is just a bunch of ethnic europeans trying to convince the world that actual peoples who lived in the region for a millenia where Israeli were dwelling in Germany, UK, Spain etc for centuries, intermixing with Europeans don't get to live in lands they occupied, because 2000 years ago, Jews used to rule Judea
You're defending a regime, that justifies burning 4 year old children alive, a regime that defended soldiers who were recorded gangraping Palestinian hostages in their prisons
WTF you're on about?
@julie4 Israel gave Iran warnings for years not to try and build any nuclear weapons.. Iran only said that they were trying to build Nuclear power plants or something along those lines.. They lied and were found with 60% Uranium, which is enough to start building atomic bombs.. Iran's sole purpose for building those bombs was to destroy Israel.. Israel is a small country in a region that hates them and wants it destroyed.. That's why Israel has been warning Iran, and decided to attack..
@Darklydarkened You do realize that the number of Jews and Christians in so many countries in the Middle East have dwindled to the point of non-existence right? A lot of Jews were still in the Middle East and we're constantly in danger because the Muslims want them gone.. Also many of the higher occupations in Israel are filled by Muslims.. So I don't know what you're on about with them being treated like second class citizens.. They get treated much better than Jews would and gave gotten treated in their countries.. They're mantra and motto is the destruction of Israel..
The only justification for the Israeli strikes was the fact that Iran had crossed a threshold in its nuclear programme, but today no one has proved this to us, no one has even declared it. Even the American intelligence services deny it.
I have the impression that the Israelis are doing the same thing to us as Colin Powell did at the UN, declaring almost with tears in his eyes that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction.
@julie4 You're thinking from a Western perspective.. It's not purely politics, Iran has funded nearly every anti-Israel group.. Notice how Israel targeted only the military base of operations, while Iran targeted Civilian areas.. Israel is trying to get straight to the problem to eliminate the existential threat that is Iran.. Even the Iranian people hate the their government and are rooting for Israel to destroy those tyrants.. Also, it was some international nuclear association that said Iran had over 60% Uranium..
Affirmation and proof are two different things, and what's more, it doesn't mean that he's using them to make nuclear weapons.
And tell me, realistically, how are they going to manage to put an end to Iran's nuclear programme? For the moment, their strike is only delaying but not eliminating Iran's nuclear programme. And what prospects can you imagine if the Iranian regime falls?
I think it's been proven by some "Atomic Association in the United Nations".. I'm paraphrasing the name.. But that's been proven.. That's all Israel needs since it can't really afford to wait like they've done in the past..
The Iranian government is alleged to be already fleeing the country.. Israel already took out their top commanders.. Destroying what Iran has built piece by piece seems to be Israel's plan.. So it might be already falling..
You're not answering my questions.
How are they going to do it? They've already asked for American help because they can't destroy the bases of Iran's nuclear programme in the mountains. For the time being, Trump refuses, to see the Israeli Prime Minister's bloody response to Trump.
Once again, if the Iranian regime falls, have you thought about the consequences?
And how exactly am I supposed to answer that Julie? I'm not the Israeli military.. That's something for them to figure out.. But guess what? The main thing is that.. It doesn't matter.. Israel probably has the best military in the Middle East.. They'll figure it out.. And no they didn't ask help from Trump to destroy their military program.. Trump offered to assist them with defense.. And of course for optics Trump will say no, but behind closed doors Trump is willing to help..
And what consequences if the Iranian regime falls.. Have YOU thought about if it succeeds? Are you thinking about the Iranian people or what will happen to Israel?
Yeah, well all I know is that Trump gave Israel the go ahead to strike Iran, and warns Iran that he'll will reign down if they attack American interest.. I'll have to look at the statement against Trump though.. MAGA doesn't want Trump to get America into a war that has nothing to do with us.. I think it's political optics because of the lack of support that the decision would have..
And that's because one tyrant came after another in Iraq.. But Israel hit Iran pretty hard.. So it'll be hard to find another dictator or group of Tyrants to come right after.. Plus Iranians are rooting for Israel..
TBH, Israel's main concern is eliminating the threat right in front of them.. They've got information that Iran has gathered enough Uranium to start thinking about building bombs.. If they get to 90% it would probably be game over for Israel.. That's the main concern for them.. Neutralizing a government that will wipe them off the map as soon as they have the power too.. Whatever happens next is on the Iranians..
Once again, there is no proof of this. And I don't know how it would be in Israel's interest to have a security vacuum. And let's imagine the worst, if Iran has the bomb and they use nuclear weapons against Israel, Israel will also destroy Iran. That's the principle of deterrence.
Iran’s nuclear program suffered one of its most serious setbacks in years on Friday, after Israel launched a series of airstrikes on nuclear sites, top scientists, and military officials in a dramatic escalation of its long-running campaign to contain Tehran’s atomic ambitions.
Israeli officials described the strikes as a preemptive operation aimed at crippling Iran’s ability to build a nuclear weapon, following what they called a sharp and alarming expansion of uranium enrichment over the past
Iran has insisted that it is not developing a bomb and that its nuclear program remains non-weaponized for peaceful energy purposes, though international inspectors have found increasing evidence to the contrary. The United Nations’ nuclear watchdog reported that Iran’s stockpile of 60% enriched uranium—just below weapons-grade—has grown large enough to produce multiple bombs if further enriched. Analysts say Iran could theoretically produce a bomb’s worth of material in as little as a week, and that no other country has that level of uranium without a nuclear weapons program.
time.com/.../
There's enough proof, and especially enough for Israel to attack.. And no it's in Israel's best interest to eliminate the specific target.. They seemed to have learned from the Palestine incident not to let the threat linger or it would continue to be a problem.. Iran will settle its on vacuum.. And Israel is trying to deter it already.. As I told you before.. Israel is specifically targeting military operations and nuclear power plants, and specific avoiding civilians casualties.. Unlike Iran who is targeting heavily populated areas..
No, there's no proof that Iran is preparing an atomic bomb. Once again I remember Colin Powell's lie to the UN presenting so-called proof that the Iraqis had weapons of mass destruction. Even today we've never found them 😂
We need to be firm with Iran on nuclear energy. But we have the experience of history and know that military interventions result in more chaos and insecurity.
Nobody said that they were making a bomb.. Just that they were enriching Uranium much more than was needed for Nuclear energy.. If they have more than they need and they've keeping it a secret... Let's put two in two together.. Like, I also mentioned, with that information Israel didn't need to wait like they've done into the past..
"We need to be firm with Iran on nuclear energy."
No this is Israel's battle and they can decide the next move because Iran has threatened them.. Like I mentioned, you're thinking like a Westerner and a layman, who don't realize that this is a heavy religious war.
Israel has also been "firm" on Iran in the past.. Giving them constant warnings about dappling in building nuclear weapons.. So, now is probably the best time to strike..
Dabbling**..
US intelligence assessed just weeks ago that Iran is not building a nuclear weapon
“The IC [Intelligence Community] continues to assess that Iran is not building a nuclear weapon and Supreme Leader Khamanei has not authorized the nuclear weapons program he suspended in 2003.
The IC is monitoring if Tehran decides to reauthorize its nuclear weapons program.” - Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard, 25 March 2025
Yeah, but when it's been reported by the United Nations that they have 60% enriched Uranium and with a bit more they could start building weapons.. Israel struck while they still could, destroying as much of that operation of they could.. I don't blame them, you don't want.. Israel had all the proof they needed.. Like I mentioned, they've waited in the past.. This is their fight, their in a region very hostile towards them, with the surrounding countries readybto attack if they show a moments weakness.. And no if Iran had the nuclear power, it would've struck, and they would make sure that they annihilated Israel.. You don't get that these people want Israel gone and they would gladly die for it.. You see what happens with Hamas.. They're severely outgunned by Israel yet persisted on fighting and targeting them..
Like I mentioned, nobody said that they had nuclear weapons, but that they have the Uranium to start making weapons.. And Israel started striking before they could..
Nope all the sources I read said that they were either about 60% or close to 90% enriched Uranium, and these are from sources like the BBC, and such where they are closer to being anti-Israel.. They say you need about 3 to 4% of enriched Uranium to have nuclear power.. So the fact that they have so much speaks volumes, and we know that the Iranian government is tyrannical and apart of the Muslim Brotherhood.. It's time to put 2 in 2 together.. Not to mention Israel blew up a nuclear facility close to their military base..
Nah, Iran has 10x the population Israel does.. If they Strike first, I can imagine they'll make sure Israel can't strike back.. The country is only a bit bigger than New York.. So Israel no matter how powerful it is, can't really stand to take any even one nuclear attack.. I already told you, what the point would be.. They wanna destroy Israel.. That's their sole purpose.. They literally say it.. If they got their hands on atomic weapons, they're going to destroy Israel.. Like I mentioned you don't realize how much these countries hate Israel's existence..
Well no, the population in Europe was still massively outnumbering the ones in Middle East.
Muslims were okay with them for centuries, they came in massive numbers and started local conflicts about lands Israeli disturbed the areas peace and is still an occupying force
Fucking international institutions all agree the regime is an apartheid!
What do you think Arabs should feel against it? Love and hugs and kisses?
"Also many of the higher occupations in Israel are filled by Muslims.. So I don't know what you're on about with them being treated like second class citizens.."
Even colonised peoples could receive high education, that doesn't mean they're not the "other"
@Darklydarkened "Muslims were okay with them for centuries, they came in massive numbers and started local conflicts about lands Israeli disturbed the areas peace and is still an occupying force"
The Muslims were not okay with the Jews.. They were a little bit safer in Europe which is why a lot migrated there for centuries... And which is why Israel was given back to them.. Also there was no apartheid.. The Jews gave Gaza to the Arabs with everything in it.. Then they also agreed to share the land with them.. You know what the Arabs want? They only care about the land as a second prize.. The real prize is the death of the Jews..
Then you tell me Julie, is 60 to almost 90% enriched Uranium good for civilians? Especially since it's been concluded that they have almost enough to build a weapon? You only need 3-4% enriched Uranium for nuclear power..
And I understand that Israel has more fire power than probably most Middle Eastern countries and that they would wipe Iran off the map if Iran struck them.. I admitted that I was wrong on that..
That's honestly up to Israel to decide, since the Muslim Brotherhood wants to kill them.. I honestly think Israel did a good job.. They hit them some of where it hurts and avoided civilian areas.. It is the case that the Iranian government is not to be trusted..
And we do, but I already told you the reason more than a couple of times.. They want Israel dead.. Even if it cost them their lives.. I keep telling you that you don't realize how much they hate the Jews.. There's nothing logical about what they want to do and how they would use it.. These are the same people who blow themselves up and see it as martyrdom.. You don't think they would build an atomic bomb just to try and blow away Israel? They've already said they would..
Well, what you're saying isn't backed by evidence, because no matter what you say, Iran is not using its uranium for military purposes. Nor is it supported by experience, since you're throwing out the principle of deterrence just because Iranians supposedly hate Jews — even though they would be destroyed in return. Except experience shows that what you're saying isn't true.
You're dealing in hypotheticals.
"Well, what you're saying isn't backed by evidence, because no matter what you say, Iran is not using its uranium for military purposes."
That last statement is not backed by evidence, because we haven't seen what Iran is using the Uranium for.. We just know that they have it.. A lot of it.. More than they need.. Every source I read says that they will have enough to make weapons.. There's nowhere where it says how exactly they are using that much Uranium.. And no I'm not exactly throwing it out, since I'm sure they wouldn't just straight out use it right away if they got it.. I'm sure they would have a plan.. But the Iranian government don't supposedly hate the Jews, they literally say it as clear as Hamas does.. That they wish for the destruction of Israel.. Eventually they'll find a way to do it or continue to try.. The Principle of deterrence only goes so far win the idealogy is so strong..
And no I'm saying what I know about the region.. Iran has struck Israel before.. Israel has fought with multiple countries in the past..
Once again, whatever you say, Iran does not have nuclear weapons, and does not use its uranium for military purposes. That's what the American and French intelligence services , etc say.
What's more, to have a nuclear weapon you don't just need uranium. It requires great technological sophistication. Even more so if they want a second strike capability.
So the principle of deterrence works. Pakistan, a Muslim country, which carries out attacks against India, finances certain groups etc, has nuclear weapons and has not used them against India, why? Because India also has nuclear weapons.
"The International Atomic Energy Agency, a top international watchdog, said last week that Iran had amassed enough uranium enriched at levels just below weapons-grade to potentially make nine nuclear bombs, which it termed “a matter of serious concern.”
Another senior US official told CNN that Iran is “about as close as you can get before building (a nuclear weapon). If Iran wanted one, they have all the things they need.”
www.google.com/.../israel-iran-nuclear-bomb-us-intelligence-years-away
Yeah, Iran has been trying to develop nuclear arms for years, I'm sure they've gotten ahold of the technological sophistication it takes.. Positive..
And well you assume that Iran would try to straight out strike Israel itself.. There are many things that they could do with those nuclear weapons.. Many things to destroy Israel rather than an outright attack on the country..
As one ambassador pointed out
(1) the Iranian programme is military, (2) we negotiated the JCPOA to block it and the US resumed negotiations, (3) since 2003, Iran has not moved to militarisation, (4) its choice seems to be the "Japanese option" of staying below the threshold. "
So no, they don't have nuclear weapons and no, they don't use their nuclear power for military purposes. Even your writings speak of hypotheses that Iran could use this uranium for military purposes, but these are hypotheses and not what is actually happening.
" US intelligence assessments had reached a different conclusion—not only was Iran not actively pursuing a nuclear weapon, it was also up to three years away from being able to produce and deliver one…according to four people familiar with the assessmen "
As for the rest, I don't understand your point, as it seems to me to diverge towards another subject. You were talking about the fact that Iran would use its nuclear weapons to destroy Israel, and I replied that Israel would destroy Iran in return. Israel also has the weapons it needs to make Iran suffer without nuclear weapons, because it is the dominant military power in the region. What is your point?
Claiming muslims were not okay with jews and jews historically been safer in Europe is historically retarded thing to say.
And yes there is an apartheid, just ask UN!
Pretending to be an idiot isn't arguing
@julie4
Back in April (of this year) President Trump warned Iran that if they don't discontinued their nuclear program there would be consequences... Iran has been said for years to be continously developing nuclear weapons, and everytime they've obviously been stopped.. They attacked Israel with ballistic missiles last April.. Most other sources seem to hint that Iran has almost enough Uranium for weapons.. It takes technology to enrich Uranium.. You don't need more than 3-20% for a population.. So how in the world would they be using 60% for civilians and not military.. Especially being made close to military bases.. I'm sorry Julie what you're saying doesn't make sense.. And no source is saying that they're using it for civilians.. None..
And my point was that we both were acting as if Iran would launch one missile and wait for Israel to counterattack.. No, they'll try to play yhr long game and systemically destroy Israel.. They could send the nukes with ballistic missiles, or bomb an embassy fir the Jews, or give the missiles to any extremist group..
@Darklydarkened The Jews were persecuted throughout the middle east for a long time.. So no it's not "historically retarded"..
No there's not an apartheid.. Hamas like Iran has been subjugating it's own people, and the people support their subjugation.. Israel agreed to share land and the Palestinians denied.. Many Jews never left Israel and there was never a state of Palestine.. Never existed.. Hamas denied people the supplies.. Ad hominens don't help you out buddy..
No they were not, Islam had many problems but it never "persecuted" jews at any point of its history, provided they accept the rule of Islamic law, which also allows jews to govern their inner matters with their own old testament law.
Israel agreed nothing, it basically expected the illegally occupied Palestine to accept the occupation
And Jewish population before British took over was but a fraction, current Israeli population is Around %90 immigrants.
Hamas took over Gaza in 2006, this conflict is 70 years old
You know shit all about this and just spreading IDF propaganda
And yes, there is apartheid, every fucking international mediatory institution, including UN all concur that Israel is an apartheid state, you're flat out lying!
Not surprising though, endlessly denying the bare truth has been a nazi tactic from the get go
I'm sorry to tell you this, but what you're saying makes absolutely no sense, and above all there's no evidence to support what you're saying. C'est le problème. You want me to recite the U. S. intelligence report?
I still don't understand your point Israel can crush Iran if they have nuclear weapons. Unless you question the effectiveness of nuclear deterrence. But then you are no longer in the field of knowledge but of hypotece.
By the way, where are Iraq's weapons of mass destruction? 😅🤭
@Darklydarkened Yeah they were.. In multiple countries thro the centuries especially because they had culture of hard workers and had valuable skills which made them an asset and a target at the same time..
"Israel agreed nothing, it basically expected the illegally occupied Palestine to accept the occupation"
No you're confusing Palestine, who agree nothing.. And "Palestinians" were only there because of the Ottoman take over.. In fact that's much of the Middle East..
Yeah, but there were Jews still settled there though, so whether a fraction or not it was land taken from them millennia ago, that they got back..
And I didn't anything about Hamas being around for a long time, just that it was subjugating it's own people..
It seem like you're just anti Israel and maybe even an anti-semite if you wanna go there..
Mmhmm.. Yeah.. Sure.. Tell me why Arabs are treated better in Israel than in any other country in the Middle East, and why Israel the only democracy..
What are you saying there's plenty of evidence to support what I'm saying.. I'm not the one foolishly making claims like "they using 60 enriched Uranium for civilian use".. Not the smartest take I've seen from you.. And do you want me to recite the UN report? The same UN who doesn't exactly have the highest view of Israel..
Yeah, but if Iran got ahold of a nuclear arsenal that would be hell for Israel to deal with.. You don't understand that Iran will use all types of tactics to attack Israel with those weapons? And not just attack them head on in a straight out nuclear strike?
And Iraq like Iran was stopped before they could make those weapons obviously..
"They're using 60% enriched Uranium"***
And? Israel can respond in the same way to Iran. And no, I don't make stupid statements, just because they don't go your way doesn't mean they're stupid.
Forget it, everyone knows that the US lied and fabricated evidence to invade Iraq, and nobody believes that lie.
" WASHINGTON (AP) — Tulsi Gabbard left no doubt when she testified to Congress about Iran’s nuclear program earlier this year.
The country was not building a nuclear weapon, the national intelligence director told lawmakers, and its supreme leader had not reauthorized the dormant program even though it had enriched uranium to higher levels. "
It's not about whether or not Israel can respond the same way, it's about the fact that it'll be devastating for Israel which is why they decided to strike.. And I didn't call it stupid, I said that it wasn't the smartest take.. And no it had nothing to do with it not going my way.. I don't care about that.. It just wasn't the smartest take..
And who know Iraq may have been close to a nuclear weapon, but yes I know about how it was a cover up to get Iraqi oil or some along those lines... Not the smartest take from me either I'll admit.. But the difference between America and Israel is that Iraq never attacked Israel with ballistic missiles nor has Iraq have a motivation for the specific destruction of America..
And yeah, you see the thing is, is that they've been enriching the Uranium, so they haven't had the chance to build the weapons yet, and they've been doing it in secret a lot of times as well..
I said that they aren't the smartest and specifically avoided calling then stupid..
Well, there could have been reasons for that, as they could have been trying to deter American involvement since Trump has warned Iran back in April about their any programs on nuclear arms.. But the UN also reported that it was concerning the levels of enriched Uranium they had.. It takes technology to enrich Uranium.. And a population doesn't need more than at most 20%.. And all the sources seem to be leaning on the UNs report..
I never said that my answers were more intelligent, so why did you answer that?
In any case the reports indicate that Iran has not awakened its nuclear weapons programme but now may be induced to do so, Following the Israeli strike
just as other countries may want it now in the region, see Turkey etc.
I was simply saying that your statement on Uranium wasn't the smartest because it didn't make the best sense.. It was a bit unknowledgeable and straw graspy..
There are multiple reports, not just one.. The U. S report specifically mentioned them not having built any nuclear weapons and them not seeing any specific signs weapons.. The UN report was about the concern with the dangerous amount of Nuclear Uranium that could make nuclear weapons if allowed to be enriched just a littlemore.. I do wonder if you usually strongly stick to any U. S reports.. And like I mentioned they've already been wanting to do so.. Don't act like Iran is innocent.. If you want to support a dictatorship that constantly says it wants to destroy Israel..
And I can assure you, if they "want it now" they've always "wanted it"..
The problem is that it's not just the American intelligence services that are saying this. I'm simply repeating what the various intelligence services are saying, which clearly states that the Iranians have not restarted their nuclear programme for military purposes. You can say it's not true because you don't like it, but that's not my problem. In fact, Iran has been rumoured to be on the verge of acquiring nuclear weapons for over 30 years. Nothing new under the sun.
Yes, and once again, Israel is the biggest conventional and nuclear military power in the region. Whatever you say, if Iran tries something, it will suffer the same thing if it uses nuclear weapons, and conventionally, Israel will put them through a thousand times more because it has the means to do so.
And keep your contempt to yourself.
You've never shown me "various sources" and and you also said that they are "using 60% enriched Uranium" for civilians and not military purposes which no source has even claimed.. I'm was telling you what the UN has stated and their concerns regarding Iran and their Uranium.. And yes I addressed that, and it's probably because they've been stopped everytime.. It doesn't mean that they haven't tried for 30+ years..
And once again, Iran will not directly confront Israel with nuclear weapons.. They'll use them for various means.. Through the many groups they fund, and try and hit Israel where they won't see it coming.. They've hardly ever directly confronted Israel.. Which is why it's extremely dangerous.. Especially when you have an idealogy so extreme as theirs..
And no contempt here.. I was just saying you make it seem as if Iran hasn't wanted to destroy Israel and "Oh, that Israel struck them unprovoked they'll want to destroy them now"..
Well, you did say "various" intelligence agencies.. So far I only heard from one and that's Tulsi Gabburd's questionable intelligence gathering, which isn't exactly her job but hey.. It's not about liking it, it's about following the multiple sources.. The UN reported a concerning level of Uranium..
Like I mentioned its not about whether. or not Israel can strike back, it's about the devastation Iran could unleash on a small country like Israel.. Even if they could counter attack, Iran having the capability to have those weapons spells trouble for them.. Trouble that they are trying to prevent right now..
I see that the obvious bothers you, I even quoted you what Ambassador Gérard Arnaud had reported. the UN? Seriously 🤣 even de Gaulle didn't take the UN seriously.
What's more, you've deviated a lot from the subject, because at the start you said that Iran could destroy Israel with nuclear weapons and as Israel is a small state it couldn't do as much damage to Iran, which is obviously not true.
In these conditions, what would be the point of Iran acting in this way, when at the conventional level it could suffer worse, and at the nuclear level, unless you question the nuclear deterrent, which has proved its worth since it has existed, I don't see how it could use it against Israel unless it also wanted to disappear from the map.
Right, but see the UN isn't really on Israel's side, and let Iran spew anti-Israel rhetoric over and over again.. You're no different than me, dismissing one source for your own.. And maybe you did mention Gerard, I don't remember it though.. But I remember you mentioning the French report.. It doesn't matter though, Israel already struck..
No I didn't "deviate" from the subject at all.. You meant I deviated from my original talking point, which I did once I realized Iran probably wouldn't be directly launching a nuke at Israel.. And also that Israel is still more powerful.. I admitted that I was wrong there..
And because. They. Hate. Israel. They hate the fact that such a small country is so powerful, and they hate everything Israel stands for.. They want to get rid of the Nation state.. A deterrent will only stop them from ever openly launching any nukes, but not from doing it in more secret and discreet ways, or finding ways to indirectly hit Israel like they have been doing..
"No you're confusing Palestine, who agree nothing.. And "Palestinians" were only there because of the Ottoman take over.. In fact that's much of the Middle East.."
What the fuck kind of a moronic notion is that?
Ottomans were an empire, they did not bring new people there, they took over the existing peoples. What do you think the population was like before Ottomans? Because I should tell you, before them, there were Mamluks, another state that was originated by Turks, but ruled over chechnian converts mostly, before them there were Abbassids, Ayyubis (Another Turkic dynasty), Fatimids, Carmatis etc etc.
There was even a Christian Kingdom in between in the levant. And population, was predominantly christian and muslim, not fucking Jewish because Romans dispersed them in 70 CE
Which is 1950 years ago!
You think the area was just empty in the meantime? Or Jews of European ethnic background get to own the place because some distant relative whose blood his difficult to even find in their veins, lived in Jarusalem 50 generations ago?
And people who have been there all the while are supposed to be annihilated and roughshouldered, their lands, homes, very right to live usurped because zionists believe they get to do whatever they want in their fascistic utopia?
Grow up, and find a job that has a shred of honour
Iraq, was not stopped by the way. Hundreds of thousands of people died, carped bombed by US, I still remember the photographs of American soldiers torturing, Iraqi people
And all that, was based on flat out lies.
And about Israel being attacked, they are bringing this upon themselves. They're literally doing all they can to provoke war, attacking Iranian army officials, bombing towns and then cry about being bombed
There were 16 hospitals in Gaza before October 7th, now stand only 2
What do you think happened? And Netanyahu, after one hospital is hit in Israel, has the audacity to say that bombing hospitals is warcrime
@Darklydarkened Like I said, you do realize that the Jews were still in Israel.. Palestine didn't come into play into the 1960s.. Before that they were just Arabs.. Who had also kicked Jews out of their homes.. There are more Arab Jews than European jews in Israel..
Yeah, sure the only country where even Arabs are safe, and more free.. The only stable country in the Middle East.. The only country where millions of Christians and even Muslims are not getting annihilated..
Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields, and then broadcast deaths for people like you to think Israel is the bad guy.. Israel gives warnings repeatedly before the bomb buildings, and drop leaflets to give people a chance to evacuate.. Even with Iran, it attacked military bases only, no civilians.. Whereas Hamas and Iran attacked civilians deliberately..
@Darklydarkened @Darklydarkened https://youtu.be/0AV5jZigPm8?si=uILE9sWMIuMMsR97
This guy explains it well..
@julie4
Of course.. This was a fairly heated debate.. You made some valid points, I'm sorry if I spoke out of tone sometimes..
That guy is spreading bullshit propaganda. We are witnessing the genocide as it happens.
" Like I said, you do realize that the Jews were still in Israel."
"Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields, and then broadcast deaths for people like you to think Israel is the bad guy.. Israel gives warnings repeatedly before the bomb buildings, and drop leaflets to give people a chance to evacuate.. Even with Iran, it attacked military bases only, no civilians.. Whereas Hamas and Iran attacked civilians deliberately.."
We literally witnessed them bombing refugee camps, these lies are not even funny anymore
Hamas is figting against an apartheid state. Obviously it is showing its violence, how do you expect them to respond nazis?
The land is named Palestine and there was no Israel before 1947, and obviously there were jews in it. It just was not a Jewish land
There are Jews in France, it doesn't make it a jewish land
"Yeah, sure the only country where even Arabs are safe, and more free."
This is the most blatant lie, Israel is the least safe country for Jews even, let alone Arabs.
That is like calling Nazi Germany the safest place for Jews and Slavs
m it would be a mistake to think of Israel or any other entity as just "one approach" with "one goal" because it is not like that, and it is never like that
there's always the interests of many bundled together... a war is never fought by two sides, but many factions and sides... even contrasting and conflicting goals often go to war together... and that's just the nature of war
I think it's to fulfill the Yinon Plan for a "Greater Israel".
https://mepei.com/greater-israel-an-ongoing-expansion-plan-for-the-middle-east-and-north-africa/
The simple answer is that they want sovereign territorial integrity. Is the strategic objective the not same as the tactical objective - safety & survival?
Kinda think it is. A strategic objective of avoiding a nuclear war is pretty close to a tactical objective of destroying Iran's nuclear facilities.
At a slightly higher level the objective of Israel's founding, was an autonomous state for Jews, rather than them being subject to another country/population.
If they attacked Iran's nuclear facilities it is nothing new. It is the same thing they did when they attacked the nuclear power station in Iraq when Saddam Hussein was in power. They call it a preemptive strike, in this case to prevent their enemies from acquiring the atomic bomb which they think they will use against them.
They want the US to spend trillions to destroy Iran like they got the US to do the same to Iraq.
Also, they want to overshadow Netanyahu's trial on bribery charges. Fascist crooks are all the rage for leaders these days.
Israel, like any country, wants to live in peace and security. Unfortunately, that's not easy given its geographic location in the Middle East, where conflict has been a constant for centuries.
They're more violent and inhumane than their entire region combined
You're forgetting that their religion and culture, is little different than Arabs they all try to pretend supreriority to.
I'll describe Israels strategic objective:
To survive against the continuous onslaught and threats from Muslims.
Probably for all other countries to defer to them as the "King Country" or something utterly retarded like that. Bugger knows. They're a bunch of religious desert-monkeys so whatever goes through their heads is incomprehensible nonsense.
The destruction of the Iranian state and an end to it's rein of terror and goal of the genocide of western civilization.
I look at it this way. Israel has been giving their lunch money to 4 or 5 bullies for a very long time now. October 7th broke the camels back and now they've gone completely off on everyone in reach. God bless Israel!! ✝️✡️🕎
Easy, they want us to win the war they started.
I'll tell you!!!
Israel just want threatening the world and want prove that only jews are supreme human race. acording to Israel all human are like animals besides jews.
And Israel want everyone obey it's order
They're a rabid dog and should be neutered. We should take their nukes before Netanyahu does something really stupid.
NETANYAHU wants chaos to keep his corrupt old a** out of prison for corruption.
maybe they just love war
The question seems to be 'What does Netanyahu want?' I don't think he enjoys much support within Israel, but he is still the Prime Minister.
Total victory and peace through strength.
World domination ,
To take out irans nuclear ambitions
expansion
Colonisation
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