Do you agree with this regarding executions?

[msc545]

Since the Supreme Court has ruled that the government cannot execute someone deemed intellectually disabled, usually defined as an IQ of 70 or less at the WAIS IV.

I agree - people with IQ's in the intellectually disabled range should not be executed.

I disagree - people with IQ's in the intellectually disabled range should still be executed.

[Anonymous]

I respect the SCOTUS majority opinion and I believe they carefully also thoughtfully weighed The Constitutionality of the matter. I stand by their decision.

I think it is a good decision since the person could not fully grasp what happened and therefore shouldn’t face the consequences. Since if they had an inkling of the world going on around them, they probably wouldn’t have made such a stupid blunder that resulted in tragedy, where a loss of life occurred. If you think, it really makes our system less of ‘eye for an eye’.

What I will say is, how do we determine the IQ of the individual we are about to execute? Do we re-evaluate them with new testing or base it off previous testing?

Also couldn’t they just lie about their intellectual capabilities or is there a way to thoughtfully and meticulously find that out for the individual who might be sentenced to death?

I could be asking useless know-nothing questions, though I think they matter to be answered if we want this decision to be utilized in the way that they are hoping it be implemented.

[AviatorTom]

Lets keep it simple. Don't execute anyone.

[AviatorTom]

Thanks for MHO

[Anonymous]

I thought the standard IQ test was in recent years deemed void? Guess that is yet another attempt to save trumps derrière in the inevitable and unavoidable trials for his crimes against America? Claim insanity or intellectually.. less than. We all know those are both true.

[msc545]

No, it is not "void". We use the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale 4th edition, and it has been extensively tested and validated.

[Amy10223]

A person with an IQ of 70, would not be able to have the smarts to kill someone else, unless it was accidental. With this IQ they can learn basic things, but I doubt they could have the ability to plan out and carry our murder.

[CaptainObivous]

Actually, you'd be surprised what someone with a low IQ is capable of doing, and that includes killing someone intentionally or unintentionally.

[msc545]

@CaptainObivous how do you know this?

[CaptainObivous]

I know someone personally who's lower on the IQ scale who went through a period where they had urges to harm others.

[Amy10223]

@CaptainObivous Do you know their exact IQ? They told you? I had taught retarded children whose IQ's were in the 70's. They were termed "educables" in those days, meaning they could learn some things, and not function well in some settings. One of them had no speech or rather intelligible speech. That was someone with the 70 IQ range. It's lower broad range of cognitive ability, and mental retardation.

[msc545]

@ Captainobvious do you really think that a single instance of something is representative of all of it?

[CaptainObivous]

@msc545 Did I say a single instance represents all? No. OP said low IQ people weren't intelligent enough to commit murder unless it's accidental, which isn't entirely true, while rare, it can happen. There have been murder suspects with supposedly low IQs, Derrick Todd Lee being one example.
@amy10223 Not their exact IQ, but around 66-69. Murder doesn't have to be planned or well thought thought out, sometimes it's spur of the moment. Some, not all, but some low IQ people lack reasoning skills and impulse control which can potentially lead them to murdering someone on the rare chance they get the urge to do so.

[msc545]

You originally cited a single instance that you personally were familiar with. I don't think that generalizes to the entire population of people with IQs under 70.

[Amy10223]

@CaptainObivous Captain, I’m not the OP. I had an opinion.

[Chazmatazz269]

The Wechsler examinations are widely relied upon to quantify full scale intelligence quotients, which is a much broader scope of cognitive abilities than typical IQ test. Therefore it’s important to specify FSIQ as contrasted with IQ.
I don’t generally agree with capital punishment, but i recognize the need for exceptions in a civilized society. While it’s possible that some low FSIQ people are capable of the autonomous malice necessary to commit the kinds of crimes for which execution is a possibility, i’m confident that those are in the minority. Contrarily, most of us can recognize how criminals and criminal organizations have used minors and dimwits to game a system flawed toward leniency.
If you look far enough back into enough human cultures, you’ll find that we used to execute people BECAUSE they were defective. It’s very interesting to me that we ended up developing a system in which we refuse to execute known criminals for the same reasons.

[lightbulb27]

I don't care how smart they are, I care about what they do. It isn't an issue of smart or understanding smarts.

The dude that murdered a bunch of girls in japan, chopped them up and put them in a freezer... was executed in japan, I don't care how smart he was, I care how evil he was. Granted, he may have been doing what they asked for, but thats really not allowed. he earned a death, I suspec

the problem is ensuring you've definitely got the right person. that is my concern. if there is doubt, then I let them live.

I'm pretty sure the dude that shot up Sandy hook knew what he was doing, it was a choice. that is unfortunately, the power of the devil.

amazingly, people at the top can wipe out millions and they get away with it. It's really about power to some extent.

[NathanDavis]

"usually defined" but not always define by it?

I would not agree with such vague and subjective description of what is "deemed" or not "deemed"

[msc545]

Some jurisdictions may use the Stanford-Binet or IQ measures.

[msc545]

*other IQ measures

[alli-112]

Fair enough I guess. If you literally can't comprehend the moral implications of your actions it's hard to judge you by them, but we can't treat humans like animals either. I have super mixed feelings about our entire like system regarding prison, execution, etc to begin with.

[NaultD]

I flat out against government executions. So baby steps is still good.

In contemporary times there's like less then 100 executions a year. So I'm curious how many fit these description? How many would flip the scale to get rid of executions like how Washington state reevaluate its laws.

[CaptainObivous]

No, executions should be banned regardless of IQ, life in prison is cheaper and 1 too many innocent people have been executed.

[matchrestore]

I'm against all executions- the legal system is not perfect, and you can't appeal once you're dead, no mater what evidence might surface later.

[beefcakebradybatson]

I'm anti-death penalty. Canada hasn't executed anyone since Dec.11,1962 when I was nine, and the BENIGHTED States of America is the only Western country which stoops to this antediluvian atrocity, generally meted out only to the poor and minorities who slay whites.( A jailhouse saying is that it's called Capital Punishment because they who lack capital get the punishment).

[Sevenpointfive]

can we add animals to that? like the ones that are euthanized or shot for being an animal

[slatyb]

No one should be executed ever. There is no capital punishment in the European Union.

[andreasderjuengere]

So why are dangerous dogs put down? They are much less smart.

If the government can not longer execute 'qualified' death penalty persons, then it's perhaps time to privatize this sector for the sake of capitalism and free enterprise?

[abc3643]

So, I guess we can't execute MAGA followers then the next time they riot or drive cars into crowds or have "stand your ground" murders...

[dustybiker2]

@abc3643 Didn't you hear? They declare them all dems.

[DrPepper12]

NO ONE SHOULD BE MURDERED BY THE STATE!! 🛑 NO ONE!!

[jshm2]

Well.. legally they cannot stand trial anyway, so execution is a moot point. They can only be executed after a trial.

[Flower7]

I agree with it. But then, I also don’t believe that anyone should be executed…

[Anonymous]

Im guessing every murdered is going to tank their IQ test because only proffessors get executed.

[msc545]

It's not easy to tank your IQ test and get away with it.

[Opinion Owner]

If your life was on the line?

[msc545]

The nature of the test makes it very difficult to fake it.

[Anonymous]

That's not a complete sentence, and what is the WAIS IV?

Since the Supreme Court said this, then what? What is the question.

[Staximus]

No. If somebody does some terrible shit, fry their ass.

[Pohjolan]

Ah at first I thought that this is taking eugenics a bit far.

[goaded]

I'm against executions generally.