Do you agree that a law that cannot be enforced is essentially useless?

[msc545]

[Kelley1]

Yes, because any law with no penalty or means of enforcement is no law at all. That is why much of the Constitution is not law and is useless.

[msc545]

Actually, the Constitution is the ultimate law in the US and is not useless since federal courts enforce its provisions. The real problem is the enforcement mechanism is broken, the US Marshals or the police for the federal courts. But the US Marshals are part of the justice department which is run by the executive division of the government, which means the president. Ultimately. If the president doesn't agree with the law which our current president doesn't seem to do, and of course the US Marshalls will not be directed to enforce federal court orders. That is the situation we find ourselves in now and why are we are having so much trouble. The federal courts literally have no way of enforcing their orders because of this oversight by the founders.

[Agape93]

Absolutely. Like those absurd laws saying suicide is illegal. Like, who the fuck are you gonna punish?

[Anonymous]

Any law is enforceable on the poor, and no laws apply to the "elite". ﾠ

[beefcakebradybatson]

Especially the poor of colour.

[beefcakebradybatson]

Yes.

[Effably]

No. Even if a law can not be enforced it still serves a moral purpose. At the very least it is a proclamation that society, in the legal sense, deems these actions wrong.

For example. Even if you lacked the ability to put a repeat offender in jail, giving them a guilty verdict without enforced punishment still carries some weight.

Obviously laws should be enforced but even when they are not, their existence often still serves some purpose.

[msc545]

An unenforceable law simply becomes a mockery.

[Effably]

My argument is that it still says something is wrong as opposed to being okay.

[msc545]

it says something to people who care about the law.

[msc545]

The right wing in the US does not care about or respect the law, except when the corrupt Supreme Court Justices that they bribed rule in their favor, which they always do lately.

[Effably]

I do understand your point. Having laws ignored and stomped on must feel awful. It is upsetting to me and I am not even part of the country.

Even so, I still believe that at least being able to say it is and was against the law is meaningful. For example all these tariffs have been against the law. Trump never had the right to issue them. Trump and co are arguing that if they need ti revoke their legal oopsie the rest of the world won't respect the US. Which, we already do not. Although military still seems okay.

[msc545]

It is as if our whole world has dissolved. Our laws now mean nothing at all.

[Effably]

At the very least they set a precedent for being administered with cause once things are restored. That has some value, although I can understand how it might feel like ridicule.

I am very much wondering when the powderkeg goes off. The rest of the world won't go in and fix it. But hey on a brighter side. Who would have guessed Idiocracy was as accurate as 1984 in how dystopian and fascist regimes operate?

[msc545]

We are wondering too. This is not going to fix itself.

[WindAtMyBack]

Sort of. It can still have a small deterrent affect. Also, making something legal can imply that it is OK, even when it's not.

There are not many laws that can not be enforced at all, maybe none. Although there are a lot of laws that aren't enforced, even though they could be.

The thing is that only a tiny percent of crimes end up in a conviction. (Which is not the same thing as conviction rate, which is the percent of crimes that actually go to trial.)

[Chazmatazz269]

No. Dead letter law persists because most people understand the cyclical nature of society.

[DrPepper12]

Worse than useless. It weakens respect for every other law. It's dangerous

[Miristheiss]

Sounds reasonable. Some examples would help.

[msc545]

Currently, civil rights violations by the government - specifically remedies and penalties for due process violations - cannot be enforced.

[exitseven]

No, it just means that the cops have to be allowed to do their jobs. There re not many laws that are unenforceable if you have the will to do it.

[Ariesman81]

Can't be enforced or won't be enforced? All laws can be enforced. Is there a particular law you have issue with?

[msc545]

Won't be enforced then. The law against murder comes to mind.

[Ariesman81]

I would say stay tuned. There is definitely an accountability movement sweeping the nation.

[msc545]

I really hope you are right. What signs of accountability have you seen?

[ProbablyClueless]

Totally useless! And like @Agape93 said, they can even be counterproductive.

[Anonymous]

laws of nature dictates might makes right anyway

imagine how culture can easily be changed if people understood this concept

[Tereza07]

Yeah that makes sense

[loveslongnails]

Yes, why bother?

[Staximus]

Yes, pretty much

[OneViewpoint]

Yup.

[Twalli]

pretty much

[Twalli]

TikTok is banned, but it isn't enforced, which is why people still use it. A lot of people don't actually know that it is banned.