State sanctioned human torture, here in the USA, but it's ok, right maga?

[loveslongnails]

Amnesty International released its report a few days ago on conditions in Alligator Alacatraz.

The research concluded that people arbitrarily detained in “Alligator Alcatraz” are living in inhuman and unsanitary conditions including overflowing toilets with fecal matter seeping into where people are sleeping, limited access to showers, exposure to insects without protective measures, lights on 24 hours a day, poor quality food and water, and lack of privacy – including cameras above the toilets.

People interviewed shared that access to medical care is inconsistent, inadequate, or denied all together, placing individuals at serious risk of physical and mental harm. People reported being always shackled when they were outside their cage. Other treatment those detained have endured amounts to torture, including being put in the “box”, described as a 2×2 foot cage-like structure people are put in as punishment – sometimes for hours at a time exposed to the elements with hardly any water – with their hands and feet attached to restraints on the ground.

“Alligator Alcatraz” operates outside federal oversight, without the basic tracking systems used in ICE facilities. The absence of registration or tracking mechanisms for those detained at Alligator Alcatraz facilitates incommunicado detention and constitutes enforced disappearances when the whereabouts of a person being detained there is denied to their family, and they are not allowed to contact their lawyer.

“These despicable and nauseating conditions at Alligator Alcatraz reflect a pattern of deliberate neglect designed to dehumanize and punish those detained there,” said Amy Fischer.

There is NO RULE OF LAW in the USA anymore. Every magat supports this inhumanity, so just in the comments and show us all just what you are. ** If your justification is going to be "they have no rights because they're criminals", I'll just boot your dumb ass out. Not interested in your lack of legal knowledge.

[lightbulb27]

that's not good, we need cameras up. we don't want to be abusing people due to mass crowding.

but to be fair, lots of americans that are here legally are denied medical care and many are hungry, some thrown out of their housing to the streets.

There's no references to sources, need facts. as noted, they should put up cameras, and correct issues as much as possible.

[loveslongnails]

The source is Amnesty International. You can look it up on their site. Besides that, members of Congress toured the facility early after it opened and said similar things. It's a shithole.

Not sure how "lots of Americans that are here legally are denied medical care" equates to torture by design?

[emeraldsaphire]

The CIA has been operating black sites since Obama. I'm glad you guys are all against drone bombings, breaking of the 4th amendment and all the other evil the Feds do, but the minute they elect some Democrat stooge you guys will shut up about all this stuff and deflect to,"but the government gives out cookies,"

And to Maga, you aren't conservatives, you definitely aren't constitutionalists you are useful idiots for Mango Mussolini

[goaded]

You misspelt "Bush". You know, the Republican president that ordered torture.

[loveslongnails]

The CIA operates like its own de facto agency. They are the dark force in plain sight. Whatever you want to cite about CIA operations is its own issue.

[beefcakebradybatson]

YEAH, BUDDY !!!

[emeraldsaphire]

@goaded eh, Bush, Obama what ever. Both parties do it

[emeraldsaphire]

Congress and the President has the power to stop it, but they don't. Not to mention all the other evil committed by the other agencies

[goaded]

Obama stopped the torture, Biden respected people's rights, Trump has gone back to torture. It's not the same on both sides.

[loveslongnails]

"Mango Mussolini" ----- priceless !!

[emeraldsaphire]

@goaded I'm almost positive he didn't stop it. Considering the guy had no problem killing American Citizens with no charge or trial and that he was the one who started putting kids in cages in the illegal immigrant detention centers, which Trump stopped by the way. That's not to say Trump is any less evil. They just spread their evil in different ways. Also Obama campaigned on shutting down Guantanamo Bay, and that never happened. One more thing, just a second ago you were telling me how the CIA was its own thing and the president has nothing to do with it, but now, Obama stopped it, ok sure.

[goaded]

I'm positive he did. I'm also positive he did have problem with the killing of the US citizens. It wasn't me that said that about the CIA.

You're leaving out an important detail about the "cages" during the Obama administration: they were to hold migrant children for no more than 72 hours before releasing them to the Department of Health and Human Services for further placement, and that any children separated from their parents had to be, by law. On the other hand Trump administration immigration policies involved separating migrant children from their parents and detaining them in "cages," a practice supposedly halted by a federal judge in 2018, although they didn't stop. eu.usatoday.com/.../

Guantanamo Bay detention camp:
"President Barack Obama, ordered closure of the facility within a year and to identify lawful alternatives for detainees; however, bipartisan opposition from the U. S. Congress, on the grounds of national security, prevented closure.[14] During the Obama Administration, the number of inmates was reduced from 250 to 41... 15 detainees remain as of January 2025"

"In 2018, President Donald Trump signed an order to keep the detention camp open indefinitely"

[emeraldsaphire]

@goaded 🤣"he only put kids in cages for 72 hours" This is what politics does to your brain, why are you defending this? Just be like "yeah Obama was a psychopathic peace of shit who probably should be put to death for his crimes against humanity" I'd say that For Trump, Bush, Biden Clinton and frankly every US president since maybe Calvin Coolidge (I reserve the right to change my mind if he did something evil)

As far as the Guantanamo Bay thing goes. That's the oldest trick in the book, "oh I wanted to do good thing but the evil other party stopped me" or better yet when they can blame their own party too, "I'm the only decent person in government" Then they go and give guns to drug cartels and create one of the worst terrorist groups the world has ever known. Also I'm pretty sure Obama was the president who helped the Saudi's start their genocide against the Houthis. And he destabilized Libya which lead to the return of open air slave markets back to Africa

Now you can say how all of those things Obama did wasn't his fault or wasn't as bad as I think and then say Trump is worse. Maybe Trump is worse. I don't know, but that wouldn't stop Obama from being evil too.

[goaded]

Of course you're not showing any bias at all by starting by claiming Obama started black sites, when it was clearly Bush (who also tortured the people there and started two wars that killed millions), when claiming you "don't know" if Trump, who enthusiastically broke apart families without being forced to by law, is worse.

According to you, both sides are absolutely identical, except for the fact that they're obviously not.

[Miristheiss]

Oh, I am sorry is the border not secure? Are we not deporting illegals? Are we not slowing immigration and halting it 100% from disaster, 3rd world countries? Is the safety and well being of American CITIZENS not being made the priority?

WIN, WIN, WIN!!!

AMEN.

Alligator?

Hey, I am for IMMEDIATE deportation. I am FINE with not holding them at all. Just straight to deportation.

[loveslongnails]

Oh, I am sorry is the border not secure? It's more secure than it was, yes.
Are we not deporting illegals? Sometimes you are, but you're breaking your own laws and having to get new ones put in place in order to do so, often with questionable ethics. Just because a 5 judge panel, 3 of whom are Trumptards and 2 of whom were Conservative to begin with, greenlight a law passed by a Trumptard Congress, doesn't mean you're acting in good faith.
You're also UNLAWFULLY detaining non-illegals AND American citizens with NO regard for due process.

Are we not slowing immigration and halting it 100% from disaster, 3rd world countries?
* Immigration and illegal border entry are two very different things. You've slowed immigration requests in general by promoting an even more unsafe, racist atmosphere towards anyone who doesn't look white. You can argue that, but you'd be an idiot, so I expect that you will.
* In the process, you're actually grifting the companies your own billionaires control by charging them $100,000 visa fees for specialized talent unavailable in the USA for business. In other words, DEI is ok if you pay daddy Trump for it.

[loveslongnails]

Is the safety and well being of American CITIZENS not being made the priority? Fuck no. American citizens come in all colors, shapes and persuasions. YOU have made the well being of those who don't fit your white supremacist, fake Christian Nationalist poster children quite unsafe. The "well-being" of American citizens who are look brown, or Hispanic, or who are Muslim or who are "alphabet people", is quite fucking unsafe --- all because of YOU and your ilk.

Being for "immediate deportation" without due process is NOT a tenant of your Constitution for good reason. Your willingness to say "well, there may be some collateral damage like deporting people with valid green cards, or actual American citizens, is ok", because they look non-white, merely shows how genuinely disturbed and disgusting you are to your soul. Supporting the conditions you keep these people in makes you vulgar beyond words. That's what your cult is all about. That's what you revel in.

Well, at least your wear it on your sleeve, for whatever that's worth.

[Miristheiss]

They shouldn't even be here.
Cry me a river that some of these MILLIONS of foreigners who have no business living here and bringing their backwards culture here are getting kicked out.
Amen.
That is why Trump was elected.
If no rules were followed to allow my country to be overrun I do not care about rules designed to KEEP illegals here being followed.
No visa? No greencard? Bye-bye get out.
"Doesn't look white"?
You mean EUROPEAN?
Yeah?
European settlers built the country based on European, victorian, enlightenment CULTURE.
This is the founding culture.
You act as if the origin host culture is OBLIGATED to import millions of muslims and mold to Islam culture and Hindus and mold to their culture... etc.
No.
Keep our Western culture.
Immigrations numbers should be very low and they have to want to join western culture.
If not then you are not welcome to live here.
We are under NO obligation imports millions who do not respect our culture.
That is suicide.
Whites built the country and culture.
You seem to think we are obligated to unwhite the demographics and throw out the European cultures the made a country EVERYONE wants to move to.
Because why? Tell me?
That is bullshit.
Fuck Somali Islam, crime, Allah, child bride, genital mutilation culture. Keep that out.

[loveslongnails]

The USA has had the best propaganda machine in creation. And yes, it was better than living in a 3rd world dictatorship, but ask the Japanese and Chinese and Asians what it was like coming to San Francisco in the late 1800's and early 1900's. It wasn't so great for them once they arrived. In the same way, we grew up thinking the USA was the "greatest country in the world". Sorry, it's not.
Bad news for you. I travel the world. I'm in Europe now. NOBODY wants to come to the USA, not even to visit. They think you're a bunch of clowns, and you are, and these are white Europeans, not Somali's, Arabs, or those brown folks that I'm talking about.

I didn't say you are obligated to do anything, but clearly, this country was built on the labor of imported slaves and subjugated whites. So I understand WHY you want it to stay that way. I understand that you can argue that the Founding white slave owning Fathers actually wanted a white country, run by all whites of European decent. It's a bit confusing that their words spoke of equality but slaves were only counted as partial people for the purpose of a tax census. I understand your alarm that you're not in an all white run country and there are just too many people who don't look like you. I EVEN understand that you feel it's your birthright to have the US be that way. But that's not how things have evolved.

So, I am ALL for you having your OWN white supremacist country. Go make one. Take your red states, secede, make your own country. I back you 100%, but you are not getting what's now the USA and making it your American Taliban refuse. You're experiencing a last gasp racial burst, and it's going to swallow you up.

[Miristheiss]

LOL.
It is just interesting how you aren't upset at China and Japan for keeping immigrant numbers low..
Tell them they are too Asian. They must import millions and millions of Somalis and Syrians and Iraqis and Indians and Mexicans and Americans. They must let them open mosques and temples and churches all over.
All of your babbling boils down to nothing but some unsubstantiated doctrine that we MUST import millions of Somalis and Haitians and Columbians, Iranians, disasters countries because it is racist to not do it.
You are going to have to do better than RACIST as a justification for all of these horrible ideas.

[loveslongnails]

God, you sound like the idiot you are. You're about THE most racist person on here, certainly in the top 10. I never, EVER said a fucking WORD about who you have to ALLOW into the USA. Not one fucking word, you idiot. Find it. You won't. This post is about the way people in detention centers are being treated, and how and why they got there.

At this point, I don't care who secedes from whom. I'm fine if the Blue states want to leave and start their own country. They'll take their assets and GDP with them. OR, you could go. I don't give a shit. Just go.

And by the way... I don't live in China. I don't live in Japan. They make their own rules. Again, my point is about how you and your goddamn ilk violate your own laws, AT WILL, while you scream that you follow the "Rule of Law". You guys are bullshit. And you're an idiot. Please take your idiot brethren and go make your own damn country, or don't try to stop the Blue from leaving because you know that economically, you're fucked without them.

[Miristheiss]

Got it.
Anyone not in favor of no borders and unlimited immigrants by the millions from 3rd world ruined nations... racist.
Wow.

[loveslongnails]

You didn't get anything. That's not at all what I said. Nobody's saying that, you just want to think so. You're racist because by every definition in the book, so own it. You understand nothing about the point of this post. You just used it as a platform to spew your echo box bullshit.

[Miristheiss]

I see.
I see.

Whatever. We had your wish, wide open borders... millions flooding in. Chaos, tons on our dime, tons of criminals, no skills, cannot speak English, no intention of assimilating and being American, just some beach head colony of the country they left.

The voters wanted this stopped. That is why Trump was elected.
He is doing what the majority want. Even if you lefties hate you country and culture and you cannot self delete yourselves fast enough and you want 20 million immigrants every year until the country is gone... the majority voted against that.
Most rational people know MOST countries keep strict immigration.
I have no idea why you believe millions s are "supposed" to always flood in.

You just seem to hate your country.

[loveslongnails]

The difference is that I know what things my "country" has done in its past, to its citizens, to others. My "country" isn't my government, it was always the people in it. I believed in them. Now I find out that about 40-50% of them are hateful mf's like you, who have no effin clue who's sweat and blood actually built this country. You're just plain old ignorant, and you keep stupidly assuming my position on immigration which makes you even more ignorant.

By the way, the "majority" of eligible voters didn't vote in total. Those who did vote for the Mango Mussolini grifter are it's like to elect a fool. You think immigration is your biggest problem? LMAO. You don't even KNOW how badly you're getting fucked up the ass and smiling while it happens.

I PRAY that every single undocumented person, Hispanic, brown, Asian, Indian and other non-white person that you want to subjugate, citizens included, were suddenly gone one morning and all you have left are your white supremacist selves. The USA would collapse in a matter of days.

When my country stops grifting and creating the biggest income disparity in its last 100 years, I'll say bravo. You just seem to be blind as a Trumper, er... I mean bat, no... I did mean Trumper.

[Miristheiss]

Ah white.
You seem to bring up being whote a lot.
It is said most lefties projuct what THEY THEMSELVES are guilty of.
It is normal to flip the predominate culture of a country?
Is that your stance?
Japan to just immigrate until Indians and Mexicans are the majority?
India to have such regular mass immigration that Russians and Chinese become the majority?
That is the norm huh?
The Japanese and Indians would be "racists" if they wanted immigration slowed down.
That is basically what you are saying.
Whites deserve it.
They are evil.
Maybe if you just keep spouting racist enough no one will see your bullshit for what it is.
You are so full of shit.

[loveslongnails]

Repeating lies over and over until people believe it's true is YOUR ilk''s playbook. Every example you want to cite is irrelevant to this post because it's not ABOUT immigration. This post is about state sanctioned torture Learn to read and focus

You personally, or anyone, are not racists because they want an organized rate of immigration. That's not what makes YOU a racist.. you're one because you fit the basic definition. You can look it up yourself.

What an idiotic transference you attempt to do by ignoring all my points about history and saying "it's leftist projection of their own guilt". You just don't have the BALLS or guts to look at the history of this country and say " Hmm, maybe we fucked up... a lot... and maybe white folks who ran the government actually DID go from color to color to suppress people or use enslave them." No, you won't do that because you have white skin and you think it's just too "personal" to admit that white folks were nasty. That's a YOU problem, not history's. History speaks for itself, no matter how much you want to deny it.

I never said a thing about who deserves what -- what I SAID is that things happened that were the fault of white rulers and white government in this country. Again, it's a YOU problem that you're too insecure and cowardly to admit that because you feel personally attacked since " it wasn't me!"

You're completely blind to your own prejudice, and just how full of shit you and your cult really are.

[Miristheiss]

Yeah, got it.
Racist
Prejudice
My culture is evil hence it is prejudice to want ones own culture to continue.
We must bring in 50 different cultures.
Evil racist if you say no to that.
Racist.
Yep.
Keep spouting that.
You are such a good person.

[loveslongnails]

Why are you still talking. You don't understand the simplest, dumbed down explanations offered. All you do is deflect to a strawman. I'm not explaining your error for a third time or asking you to stop projecting your misguided interpretation of what I said. So you spewed your spew, now you can go. And yes, I am such a good person, at the VERY least, not a maga.

[Snowman84]

MAGA doesn’t care about laws, human rights or due process. They are a minority personality cult that is built around the “strong man” image. Of course Trump is a fragile weakling in reality, that doesn’t matter as long as he appears strong. MAGA hates people who are trans mainly because fascist countries need to create sexual anxiety to scare and control the male population, and Trans people make the perfect choice.


Fascism is built on a myth of the past being a utopia and the “others” stole it.


MAGA


Make America great again?


What does that mean?


It seems to imply a once great country, the country became not great.


How or why did it become un great?


MAGA implies the mythical existence needed for fascism.

[loveslongnails]

I appreciate and agree with your insightful, well thought out comment. Very well written also. The one point I disagree with is that fascism itself is a myth, in practice, though I see where you're coming from regarding the foundation for it to flourish. It's true that all fascists are weak individuals made to appear strong, or who may actually "think" they are, the people who make it possible ascribe to the same self-myth and transfer their collective weakness to the whole of the cult collective.

[Snowman84]

Oh no it’s not a myth. I mean to say one of the tenets of fascism is a mythical past.

[DryGermanGuy]

That has always been okay, even before Maga was even Maga. 👍

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_interrogation_techniques

[loveslongnails]

It's never been "ok", it's just "been done".

[msc545]

MAGA people are are cruel sadists so of course they love torture. As long as they aren't the victims. Making other people feel horrible. Makes them feel better. Makes me wonder if they really are aliens. They take after their cult leader who is one of the cruelest people alive and revels and ruining other people's lives lately has enjoyed murdering them. If this is not criminal behavior, I don't know what is yet. There are no criminal sanctions for him now and probably ever.

[msc545]

A person's immigration status is not determine whether or not they are a murderer. Obviously.

[lightbulb27]

People love to complain. solutions? Putting them up in the ritz carlton in ny was a ludicrous plan. If the priors had done their job, wouldn't have such large numbers to process with insufficient space for them. Someone out here said there was no border crises, where they mistaken?
As it is, what's the solution? Seems simple, contract more space and contract outhouses. Will look like a concentration camp, so that will be a problem. Thats why they are stuffed in buildings. I don't know anyone that wants to torture people, but discipline to rehabilitate criminals, yes, plenty.

[msc545]

Yeah, the thing is that if discipline really rehabilitated criminals we might not have any criminals because after all there is sure a hell of a lot of discipline. I worked in a prison for a while and I found that. What rehabilitated these guys better than anything else? Was the presence of 30-ft walls around the place. Also an electrified barbed wire fence on the outside of those walls seem to get their attention as well.

[loveslongnails]

@exitseven How many would people would THAT be compared to then number of kids shot in schools by YOUR ilk, Exit? How many right-wing identifying crazy motherfuckers and Trump supporters have killed 100 times the number of people killed by "illegals"?

The biggest threat comes from YOUR followings, Exit, not illegals. The biggest CRIMINALS are already here, and you're worshipping them in the White House. You continue to remain ignorant, by choice.

[msc545]

It isn't so much ignorance as it is pathological denial. I say pathological because when you deny something as evil and as sick as Trump's behavior then the behavior itself becomes pathological. Trump is quite literally a murderer and to make excuses for him or for Hedgepath or for any of the people that are responsible for this is indeed pathology.

[loveslongnails]

@lightbulb27 We're getting quite a bit off topic. My point, the conditions at this facility constitute torture by any metric, the state of Florida wants it that way, and they're doing it with impunity under the charade of "Law Enforcement". This whole process is about ridding the country of non-whites, whether they're here legally or not.

What's pathetically sick about all this is the irony: If you deported every ACTUAL undocumented person, and every brown, Hispanic, Asian, or other non-white individual TOMORROW, the country would grind to a halt in a matter of days. NO question, 100%.

P-2025 ers' and Trumpers are morons, and there's just no other to put it.

[msc545]

We have laws against torture, and if the state of Florida is engaging in what would be defined as torture, then there needs to be something done about it. That being said, I don't have any sense that our Supreme Court would even care much less actually do anything about it.

[lightbulb27]

agree, it's not ok, we have to hold ourselves to a high standard.

[exitseven]

no but it helps/

[exitseven]

They will soon be on a plane back to whatever 3rd world he'll hole they came from. This is to toughen them up for it.

[msc545]

This kind of thing is what I mean when I talk about sadism. The person who posted this is a well-known sadist on the site and I actually don't think he can help it and I don't think he has any insight into it. That's sad.

[loveslongnails]

You are, and remain, a stupid maga tool.

[beefcakebradybatson]

H**l holes like most REPIGLIKSCUM-ruined States?

[exitseven]

@msc545 hahahaha

[beefcakebradybatson]

@msc545 He's probably in ICE !!!

[beefcakebradybatson]

Are there SMART MAGA tools?

[exitseven]

@beefcakebradybatson If I was 20 years younger I probably would be.

[IamRight]

They don’t have rights, they are criminals who are here illegally. Will hopefully make Illegals in the future think twice about comming here and go somewhere else instead.

[goaded]

Everybody in the jurisdiction of the United States has rights.

[loveslongnails]

@goaded Not anymore. Only on paper. The USA may be modernized in a lot of ways, but it's a third world country's legal system at the upper levels.

[goaded]

I was describing the law, not the criminal administration and this guy's warped interpretation of it.

[loveslongnails]

@goaded Oh yes, you're absolutely correct that it's written as such, albeit mostly ignored after it hits the Trump appointed judges level. Would you agree?

[goaded]

Below the level of SCOTUS, quite a lot of Trump appointees are decent people. Several threw out Trump bogus claims of election fraud, for example, the Texas gerrymandering, for another. SCOTUS, however, really needs fixing.

[goaded]

The judge who correctly said Texas was doing a racist gerrymander was a Trump appointee. He may be a terrible judge in other cases (I have no idea), but unlike SCOTUS he's not nakedly partisan.

[loveslongnails]

@goaded That was good, but he still could be falling into the "broken clock" category.

[goaded]

I'll take that over the "I'll delay the slam-dunk case against Trump as long as possible" type.

[jahaims]

Enter a country illegally then complain when their is legal consequences. Big brain idea right there.

[goaded]

They're illegal consequences. Legal consequences involve due process and not having your rights trampled.

[loveslongnails]

Post again when you actually KNOW what the law says. Until then, stfu.

[darkcloud1945]

Please show pictures and witnesses documentation, the reason why it sounds like an AMERICA LAST DEMOCRATIC COMMUNIST PARTY OF AMERICA bullshit propaganda rant, all bullshit, no substance.

[msc545]

There is no DEMOCRATIC COMMUNIST PARTY OF AMERICA. This is your paranoid delusion.

[loveslongnails]

Go to Amnesty International's web site, and try to understand they were not allowed to take photographs or videos. Are you seriously that dense? Start by doing your own research and go read the report.

www.amnesty.org/.../

Do something besides SPEWING your Fox garbage and go investigate it for yourself, coward. You're just a coward who doesn't want to know the truth.

[darkcloud1945]

@msc545, please check back to the 1950s, and there, big as life, you will find it, and it was supposedly disbanded, but as you will see, it never fully disappeared; it is alive today and still spreading its bullshit

[loveslongnails]

The biggest spreaders of BULLSHIT on the planet are the GOP, Fox Entertainment, Newsmax, et. al, and people like yourself who believe it. Hard stop.

[msc545]

Yeah, that was in the 1950s, about 75 years ago. It's no longer around, and it hasn't been for a long time. If you think it's still around, provide some proof.

[darkcloud1945]

@msc545 Mamdani, NYC mayor-elect FREE<FREE< FREE and tax the rich till they all leave. Also, THE DEMOCRATIC party with FREE< FREE< FREE healthcare for illegal aliens. American VETS THROWN IN THE STREET American HOMELESS THROWN IN THE STREET to house illegals. It is just the beginning

[msc545]

Get your bullshit off my question.

[darkcloud1945]

You would not know the truth if it jumped up and bit you in the ass! Oh, I forgot you believe CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, ABC, The mouthpieces of the Democratic Party

[loveslongnails]

@darkcloud1945 And you watch Fox, Newsmax and OAN and listen to Jesse Watters. Your meds are out of balance too. You're too old for this shit, grandpa. You've lived through enough to know better.

[loveslongnails]

Said the old dude who doesn't realize that absolutely EVERYTHING about MAGA and the GOP is one giant grift of bullshit propaganda. You don't even know what Communism is.

[jeremy_09]

You're describing conditions in every prison in the U. S. since they've had prisons.

[loveslongnails]

Bullshit. Get your facts straight before you say shit.

[beefcakebradybatson]

MAGANs are about the worst excuses of humans I've seen in my 72 years on Earth.

[loveslongnails]

Agreed.

[blackeagle007]

I think the MAGAs should be in those conditions themselves to see how it feels

[Kingofkings1992]

No one on the right supports human torture of any kind. You are totally making that up.