The US government left&right doesn't want the Iran conflict or Ukraine war to end because they are too profitable. Agree?

[Just_Ken]

Its all interconnected. An overall grand strategy that sees the US supplying Europe with the majority of her oil/gas replacing Russia and with the Iran War the cost has gone up. China has committed to buying US oil/gas again and prolong term will not depend on iran to avoid their energy supplies being interrupted. Then there's the price of fertiliser which has shot up 50-80% and of course the huge global arms sales.

Why would the US government ever want that to end.

Are you starting to get the picture

[Smart_Monk]

The US government has been in a toxic relationship with its master (satan). ㅤ

[RingOfFire]

If it were true, that would mean that the 62% of adult Americans that own stocks are benefiting greatly from the wars and it is likely that THEY would be the ones who are in favor of prolonging them since it is the stockholders who make the profits. That would be a nice boost for democracy... 62% would be a popular landslide win for prolonging the wars.

But unfortunately there is a serious flaw in your economic logic. It's called a CVP analysis (Cost-Volume-Profit). There is a relationship between these three metrics. Within market limits the higher the cost, the lower the volume sold and the lower the cost, the higher the volume sold. There is a sweet spot where the cost the product is sold for creates maximum profits. If the cost goes higher than that market determined sweet spot, less is sold and profits fall.

Then there is a political aspect you seem to be ignoring. Allowing prices to skyrocket isn't a good political strategy as it doesn't buy votes from the masses. But sometimes, such as in the case of the Iran conflict, it cannot be avoided and the investment in temporarily higher costs and the cost of the political fallout generated is well worth the potential gain in national security for an honest politician who understands the bigger picture and is making an effort to do the right thing.

I do agree however, that a large percentage of the government is corrupt. That is why the founders were so determined to see that the size and scope of government was strictly limited. But although I believe the government has pushed way past the limits of its constitutional authority, it is still not good politics to allow a prolonged period of increasing consumer prices. In fact, the highest inflation in almost the last half century happened in the Biden administration with consumer costs increasing an astonishing 21%+ during his term. And we saw the result of that debacle.

[Just_Ken]

62% of Americans own stocks in nothing.

[RingOfFire]

What does that mean? About 62% of American adults own stocks either directly or in their retirement plans or other indirect ownership.

[Just_Ken]

Exactly.

[Tamera952]

No not at all. This view is a strange one, and an outlier for sure, even among conspiracy minded people.
Too profitable? To whom? …I think the majority of people want Iran thing to end like yesterday, not only because it’s stupid, pointless, wasting billions, and without an end in sight, but especially since it’s making gas and food so much more expensive.
And as far as Ukraine, most Americans are detached and disinterested in that conflict, and in no way see it as benefiting us—if anything, they have an erroneous and unfounded view that American has given a lot already toward that conflict, and think it’s somehow negatively affecting us (which it isn’t, but that’s what they’re conditioned to think).

[FreyaRed]

Yes and no. Suppressing world's economy is bad, profits from expensive oil are good for US. Generally I think in long rund the balance will be negative for US since US """allies""" in middle east will look for more competent "Supervisors". Obvious option is China and i don't think US will be happy about that.
Geopolitically did Trump too much damage to invulnerability image of US.
Ergo: Conflicts yes, they are good for business but controllable conflicts, uncontrollable conflicts can have unexpected side effect

[OneViewpoint]

You've gotta realize that both Republicans and Democrats are owned by dark money coming from Big Oil, the Military Industrial Complex, Big Pharma, Banking, tech, etc. The appearance of a 2 party system is an illusion. There is one group of people all owned by the same 1%. Our votes don't matter. The rich bought the US government in a silent coup. And stupid voters made it possible. We are the Capitalist States Of America. Everything is for sale. And we allowed this 21st Century feudalism to happen.

[Zack-Bann]

War keeps the machine turning.


A time of absolute peace will cause irreparable damage to the “war-dependent” economy that large countries have built.


A small poor country in the ass-end of nowhere would love less wars because they could use their empty and fertile economic space to move up in the world.


Big countries will bleed business to them.
So they keep the world in turmoil because then economic centers remain in place out of fear of the dangers of war.


Simply put: a large conglomerate is safer to have headquarters in New York, Paris, London, Rome, Beijing, Tokyo, Sydney.
You won’t see them move to Asunción, the capital of the Paraguay. (Or any other similar place)

[BonzoInBitburg]

Disagree. US oil reserve levels are critically low and while the US produces oil, its the wrong kind for its refineries. The US is keeping oil prices artificially low but they can only do this so long. The difference between the futures price and the day price is 40-50% and that is unsustainable. The war with Iran has depleted US military stockpile to the point that they can't honor their contracts for arms sales. Fertilizer costs are high enough to seriously affect farmers bottom line but that won't really matter because there aren't enough trade agreements in place so they're headed for another lost year. The left loves this war because the timing is perfect for them heading into the midterms. The right is panicking because while they keep pumping the markets higher, a market correction of 10-20% along with an interest rate hike are almost guaranteed before November.

[Just_Ken]

Its supply and demand. You create the scarcity and jack up the prices. You remember the great toilet roll war of 2020

[BonzoInBitburg]

The US needed high oil prices to get oil companies to commit to Venezuela because they all said no when oil was $60 a barrel. But politically, the Democrats needed this and the Republicans want this over as soon as possible.

[Just_Ken]

Venezuela isn't going anywhere. Do you see the pattern. Russian oil/gas trade to Europe is shut down and the US profits. Venezuela's oil/gas trade is shut down and the US profits. Irans oil/gas trade to china is interrupted and the US profits. Saudi and the other oil countries oil/gas gets interrupted and the US profits. The global fertiliser supply gets interrupted and the us profits. Then they sell arms to allies to protect them.
Basically from a buisness point of view they eliminate all competitors creating shortages and profit from selling at inflated prices.
Probably will boost the sale of EVs as well.

[Just_Ken]

The pattern I see is that almost every 5 years after there's some sort of global crisis that creates global economic stability and money gets made and taxpayers get the bill, another one happens.
2001 war on terror
2007 Global Financial Crisis
2014 Migrant Crisis/ISIS attacks
2019 Covid
2026 Iran war

[Kaneki05]

Iran? Sure. Ukraine/Russia? Nah.
The difference here is nukes. No matter the profit nobody wants to keep an escalated affair with what could be Ww3 cause money don't matter if dead.
It's unlikely Russia would ever use nukes over the war in Ukraine but still possible and that threat of further consequence makes it a lot more risky.
Iran well longs if US prevents them getting Nukes they no such worry.

[Just_Ken]

2016 Trump was in Germany, he was pushing what Obama had been but he said the quiet thing loudly in public that Europe should be contributing more to NATO & their own defence. That they should be buying us products and arms. That Europe should be buying their oil/gas from the US whos allied to them instead of Russia whos threatening them and their neighbours, and Europe should stop funding the Russian military. Fast forward 10 years and all that has come to pass.

No country I think will ever use nukes again. Everyone pays, even China has put pressureon Russiaover it. Ukraine is too close to Russia to use them, radioactive dust would make its way into the air, food supply, water supply etc.

[Kaneki05]

If a country is losing and has no other option a nuke will fire. There is nothing more dangerous than a desperate man who has nothing to lose...
Also Ego too, some would rather end the world than admit defeat.
If Hitler had a nukes he'd not hesitated when the walls were closing in on him, maybe Putin ain't as fragile as Hitler but would you want to risk it? You have no idea what he'd do if pushed to desperation.

[Just_Ken]

Different scenario. Ukraine won't be invading Ukraine and both have a mind to survive this war which is why there's no gas or biological attacks

[Kaneki05]

I guess you meant Ukraine won't be invading Russia... which it already has and is. Russia have took more and are confident that they'll win all eventually so they don't care as much.
But what happens if Ukraine manage to actually push Russia back? Like how they didn't suspect them to last this long.
And no the reason Russia don't go full out with such attacks is cause it's basically equal to a nuke. It would prompt US, Nato to use force upon Russia, which if extremely lucky would end promptly such attacks with Russia saying sorry but you wanna bet on that? Cause I don't.

[Just_Ken]

Thats not an invasion, its an incursion.
They are at stalemate. Russia can't advance any further and Ukraine can't kick them. The us is happy to let Russia bleed their men and resources.
Give you an example. The war in Afghanistan & iraq cost every US household $50,000, now what fo you think its costing every Russian household, yes a lot less but in proportion to what every Russian household has as income its a lot.

[Kaneki05]

All invasions start with an incursion and yes they can that's the whole point of why Russia attacked in the first place. They see Ukraine to take while Ukraine see them now to take.
And thanks for a irrelevant example, do ya know how many differences between US war in Afghan/Iraq there is and why that makes it such a bad example? Always love comparisons that are nothing alike.
Here's three reasons to get you started, US at no point ever would be taken over no boarder no means there was no real ground wars within US, they did not having backing of countries with nukes opposed another with nukes, US did not see that land as theirs.
Russia see's the land as theirs, there is active ground war right now in Russia there is unlikely but means to take more, Afghan/Iraq weren't in a position to ever threaten nukes via proxy nor did US threaten or would nuke them.

Completely different cases, one was a stalemate the other is not. And in reality US vs Afghan/Iraq one wasn't a stalemate because if US wanted to? Oh they'd be gone. If Russia wanted to make Ukraine gone? It's a lot more complicated with US and Nato sitting behind their shoulder ain't it? Plus they want to take over Ukraine not obliterate it.

How many more differences do you need?

[Just_Ken]

Fact is neither Ukraine or Russia have the military power to successfully invade each other.
The iraq/Afghanistan war example i give was not about the US being the only country in the world capable of projecting force abroad and successfully invading other countries, its about how much it cost US taxpayers. How much is the 4 year war in Ukraine costing Russian citizens with higher taxes, sanctions, lower purchasing power and inflation? US citizens barely noticed the war in iraq or Afghanistan financially and it ran for 20 years.

Also if Russia decided to use nukes in Ukraine NATO would do sweet f*ck all. You think France, Britain or US would get into a nuclear slug fest with Russia over Ukraine? Not a chance. And even if they did decide that the other non-nuclear powers like Germany, Poland, italy, sweden, Finland, Norway and the rest would quickly pull out of NATO and be like Switzerland

[Kaneki05]

Not a fact at all but you can pretend it is if that makes you feel better. If a country wants to invade and boarders you all it takes is enough dominos to fall, enough attrition. Russia could've easily had this over by now only reason they haven't is due to our backing.

And once again bringing up an irreverent example do you really not understand the difference? Cause it seems you don't otherwise you wouldn't be explaining that all again as if it's somehow relevant to this war which is nothing alike. Which I'm not just gonna do you and repeat back those points. Either go learn the difference or don't but bringing it up again is pointless.

Umm yes we would? Do you know what happens if a nuke goes off and there is zero response?
Everyone now has permission to fire nukes at anyone, aka MAD which I doubt you know what that is. The actual hubris to think nothing would happen is hilarious and frightenedly naive. Even if you went by let's say okay Nukes are allowed to be fired at any none nuke state that would still erupt in massive chaos that'd likely destroy the world.

[Kaneki05]

Honestly for education you should go watch a film or documentary even wiki just anything on Oppenheimer because I've never heard such lack of understanding to how nukes changed everything.

[Just_Ken]

Exactly Russia could have had it over with by now except for the US and Europe supplying arms and not buying Russian oil/gas which funds most of the Russian military.
The cost of the war on citizens is entirely relevant because it shows the lack of Russian ability to fund a modern war and an invasion of a country essentially on its boarder.

MAD is just a theory that was never tested. There is no actual guarantee that the US or any other nuclear power in NATO would get retaliate if Russia say launched nukes at a non nuclear state like say Poland.

Do I know what happens if a nuke goes off and there is zero response? Nobody knows because MAD was never tested and no president is going to risk Mutually assured destruction, that is the United states and all its cities flattened, its crops irradiated, its water poisoned etc. MAD is merely the threat of retaliation and its an old concept from the 1950s.

[Just_Ken]

I get it you watched Oppenheimer instead of the Barbie movie but though based on history its still Hollywood.
The main thing Nukes changed is who has them and who doesn't.

[Kaneki05]

Well if you don't understand a logical conclusion that everyone else can, including the greatest minds to ever live, including the ones who actually built them then you aren't ever going to be convinced by anyone that your wrong.

[Just_Ken]

I would call the Hollywood executives behind the movies oppenheimer the greatest minds who ever lived

[Kaneki05]

That makes sense you think it's just about the movie.

[Just_Ken]

Be honest your opinion is solely based on watching the movie

[Kaneki05]

Sure, like I've never heard of Einstein or Oppenheimer way before the film came out and never spoke on these opinions before that.
I'm sure years on here I suddenly changed my mind after watching the film, and had no clue about history nor spoke about this before...

I bet it'd shock you that I in fact have and did. History being one of my favorite topics along with science I can assure you I knew the life of Einstein and Oppenheimer way before that film ever came to be a thing. In fact watching it I noticed somethings that weren't accurate without looking it up after but... sure it's solely the movie.

[Just_Ken]

Be honest now.

[Kaneki05]

Yeah okay you're right I somehow went through school without knowing them despite taking science and history along with them enforcing that anyway for several years.
You are right I've been on here over 7 years and not once have I ever had a single debate or talk about the topic of nukes before that film came out.
It's all solely because of the film.

Someone wise said IQ tests don't matter but I think he was slightly off because yours would tell a lot, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about those below the line. But you'd also think I don't know whom this guy is if I told you who it was.
Perhaps it's because yourself is so uneducated you have to project such thought?
I don't know but what is a fact I know myself that I've loved science and history since I could and delved heavily into the lives of several famous people as I like to know everything about them.

But ya know the jokes on me, should've listened to Mark Twain.

[Just_Ken]

Lol you always know someone is uneducated because they must boast about their education and malign others about theirs. Its the ultimate projection of an inferiority complex that those that went to university have where they barely scrapped by or dropped out.

[Kaneki05]

Must be again projecting about yourself with the scraped by or the drop out part. Since I didn't boast about my education, I was simply talking about school... Did they not teach you history or science?
I'm sure they did just sadly you don't care in your own arrogance.

[Just_Ken]

Again projecting because you feel inferior. You can't debate so you resort to personnel insults.

[Kaneki05]

Say's you who implied I solely my opinion was from only a film, such dishonesty to pretend that's not an insult but act like your above me I'm sure that doesn't say anything more.

[Just_Ken]

Im. sorry I hurt your feelings.

[strateguy632]

you try to prove government from business? that is nonsense. ... trump pressured ukrainians and russia to end war. in ACTION showed wanted end. similarly the blockade is to END the iran war faster!

[strateguy632]

but your other stuff is good. very good.

[sawno]

Yes but keep in mind its not neccesarily the US. Russia Ukraine this time around mainly seems to be fueled and sabortaged by Europe for some reason.

[Just_Ken]

Well ot didn't help that while supplying arms and encouraging Ukraine to fight countries like Germany were buying Russian oil thus funding both sides.

During Trump's first term he criticised Europe for not paying more towards NATO & buying Russian oil/gas instead of US Oil/Gas after the US basically defending their countries for 60 years. Fast forward 10 years later and thats exactly what has happened, almost as though the Ukraine war was planned.

[_Jenny_]

@Just_Ken I heard once that our economy is growing after a war

[arizonasunshine]

I want both conflicts to end but I want Europe to handle it.

[msc545]

Totally agree with this. US defense contractors and stock market speculators are making a ton of money at this, and that includes Trump.

[Just_Ken]

Another case of mission accomplished

[In_Trance]

Agree