Which historical state's pressure to protect a particular group seems more honorable?

[MerakSahibi]

1. The Ottoman Empire and its Protestant policy

The development and spread of Protestantism in Europe occurred to a significant extent within the context of Ottoman policy. Even France, our ally whom we kept outside the anti-Ottoman Crusader coalitions, carried out the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre against Calvinists in 1572. The Ottoman sultan's stern letter in response is particularly famous. The Ottomans took many Protestants under their protection and supported them during sectarian conflicts.

2. The United States and its Jewish-Kurdish policy

The United States, supposedly acting in the name of democracy, killed millions of civilians in Iraq while granting autonomy to the Kurds, including the establishment of a major military presence along the Iran-Turkey border. It is also Israel's only real ally. As a result, Israel is able to attack its neighbors freely, like a starving dog.

3. Europe and its LGBT policy

European countries believe that LGBT individuals should be granted not only marriage rights but also affirmative action, and they want to impose economic penalties on those who refuse to comply.

The Ottomans protecting Protestants

Americans protecting Jews and Kurds

Europeans protecting LGBT people

[capriVib]

What I find funny is how the US and Israel can treat two million Palestinians in what is basically the world’s biggest open-air prison like terrorists who do not even deserve basic rights, simply because they are Muslim.


But when it comes to Kurds, who are often even more religious than Turks, they suddenly act like champions of human rights. It feels very two-faced, as if they are using Kurds as a tool for their own interests. A lot of Kurds are aware of that too. I have met plenty of Kurds who basically think Arabs, Turks, and Kurds should all live together under Sharia. I have also met quite a few very religious and radical Kurds.


So the second option does not really feel like genuine help to me. The Middle East was not this bloody under Ottoman rule either. When you look at the numbers, more people seem to be dying now in the name of freedom.


Anyone with some sense would choose the first option.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

I guess that's true if you ignore all the genocides committed by the Ottoman Empire 🤷‍♂️

[capriVib]

The Ottoman Empire lasted for more than 600 years under many different rulers and governments. Greeks, Armenians, Jews, Slavs and many other communities kept their religions, languages and institutions for centuries. That doesn’t prove the empire was always innocent, but it clearly doesn’t fit the idea that the Ottomans spent 600 years trying to erase everyone. For much of that period, the Middle East was relatively stable compared with the endless wars and bombings we see today.

As for 1915, it happened while the empire was collapsing during a world war and facing rebellions, invasions and partition. That context doesn’t excuse the killing or deportation of civilians, but it does matter when discussing what happened. Even if we accept the higher estimates for Armenian deaths, including those caused by massacres, deportation, starvation and disease, it still doesn’t turn the entire 600-year history of the empire into one continuous genocide.

Every major state has dark periods and human tragedies in its history. The scale matters too. America intervened in Vietnam for Cold War politics, and the war left more than three million Vietnamese dead. Since then, the US and Israel have repeatedly bombed different parts of the Middle East using questionable excuses.

So if they want to lecture everyone else about genocide and civilian lives, maybe they should look in the mirror first.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Oh yes, blame Vietnam on the US
I seem to remember massacres before, during, and after US involvement. 🤷‍♂️. Study a bit more on that.

I seem to remember the Ottoman Empire growing through conquest.
Might ad well say the US was peaceful and orderly because it kept its conquered territories secured shrug

Your Turkish bias is showing.

[capriVib]

🤣 Alright, I give up. Bias? I tried to be as neutral as possible. Most Turks don’t even acknowledge the Armenian genocide. If I were actually biased, I would’ve denied it too.

I guess Jewish ingenuity came up with this one as well: when you can’t answer the argument, just call everything “bias.”

Good luck with life.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

That's rich coming from the guy with little knowledge of Israel's demographics.
You are literally claiming middle east stability due to a region empire 🤷‍♂️ its silly.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Just to put it in perspective
It's like claiming the US brought stability with manifest destiny.
True? Sure.
But it's obvious if you are the force in power in the region.

[RavVid]

I'm not so sure the Ottoman Sultan was so concerned about Protestants' well being. After googling the Sultan may have been more concerned about the consequences of Lepanto. France stayed out of it whilst Austria was up to it's neck in it in 1571.

In 1572, the sultan possibly saw Roman Catholics as being likely to stick together and therefore France might join pile on with the Hapsburg's and Spain whilst the Ottoman Empire was weakened. Cypress was up for grabs in 1572.

He could have thought Protestant countries like England were a better deal despite Queen Elizabeth I ordering bonfires to lighted in celebration. Frankly, Protestants were just as happy as Catholics to see the Ottoman's defeated.

[Jewelmyth]

We know why America supports Kurds and Jews; they support them to destroy certain states, which is not honorable at all.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

@Jewelmyth an antisemitic muslim!! I'm surprised!!

There are nearly 2 million Muslims in Israel.
Only 15,000 Jews in Turkey
🤷‍♂️ 🤔

[capriVib]

Yeah, right. There are around 2 million people crammed into just 363 km², living under terrible conditions and being treated like dogs.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

@capriVib showing your ignorance.
They are not included in the Israeli census.
Nearly 20% of Israeli citizens are Muslim.

[Lliam]

The Ottomans also protected Jews and Christians who lived in their empire and had lived there for centuries.

[Abbycado]

Not the first. Lol

[MerakSahibi]

Are you Catholic or?

[Agape93]

Def not the first. Went with #2

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Wow, we see your bias 😂

[Agape93]

Thankfully he's about as subtle as a flood light in a pitch black tunnel.