With Iran's economy collapsing, and its influence over the Strait of Hormuz collapsing, will it capitulate to Trump's demands?

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Though I've followed it for months through independent media, mainstream media is finally starting to catch up. This is significant considering these are media outlets that have spent a decade attacking Trump. Now, they are forced to acknowledge the reality 🤷‍♂️

Iran's collapsing economy is forcing the regime to find a way out of the war. Just a few examples,

- The rial has hit 2.5 million to 1 dollar.

- Its unable to export oil, which makes up the majority of its economy.

- It has even seen a 10% GDP drop.

- The regime has also lost its most significant leverage with hormuz transits hitting pre war levels.

Things are looking very bad for the regime. 🤷‍♂️

At the same time, nations like Saudi Arabia see exports on par with pre war levels.

How likely is it that Iran will finally capitulate to Trump's demands?

https://www.cnn.com/2026/09/29/economy/oil-strait-of-hormuz-iran

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2026/9/30/economic-war-is-iran-losing-its-leverage-over-the-strait-of-hormuz

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/irans-currency-hits-a-new-record-low-as-war-erodes-the-countrys-economic-stability

Updates

15 d

@jshm2
@888thegreat
Feel free to put your thoughts 😉
Among the others I've educated this past few months..

Updates

15 d

The realistic outcome is regime change caused by internal uprisings. The people have already suffered many tens of thousands of lives fighting the regime.
The leadership may hide and run, but the populace will not willingly suffer for their benefit. We see random assassinations of regime figures each week and even regime supporters protesting against them.
I predict this regime collapses before the end of Trumps presidency.

[shish_kebab]

Christ almighty!
After reading through the replies I will have to say you're right about suicidal empathy being alive and well.

I've said before that given the choice between the two, Trump haters would prefer World war III than to have Trump be the president. I've never seen anything like it in my life.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Sadly true 🤷‍♂️
You will also notice the debates end the same way as well. They just run off.

[shish_kebab]

I have to say I admire your debating style. No matter what they throw at you, you have a way of maintaining your composure all while counter punching them into a corner they can't get out of. Then of course they take their football and go home. The crazy German is a perfect example. I can't for the life of me grasp how he can get his panties in a bunch over things that couldn't possibly affect him. I'm considerably older than you but I've never in my life seen anything like Trump derangement syndrome. It's just bizarre. Remember when you were a kid and you thought the boogeyman was real? Perhaps you checked under the bed at night to make sure he wasn't there? I swear to fuck these people from all over the world are checking under their beds at night to see if the orange man is there.
Joe Biden left American families behind enemy lines in Afghanistan and the crazies on the left thought nothing of it.
Trump builds a big beautiful ballroom and the crazies around the world lose their shit over it.
Keep up the good fight and I will enjoy watching you ringside. 😜

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Well, you go through what I have in life, and it's much easier to manage the chaos. You have to not care. Recognize the personal attacks or other claims are attempts at deflecting. 🤷‍♂️
It took me a while to manage debates like that, but it's far easier now.
It's also much easier because I was one of them at one point in my life, so I understand the tactics, and can usually see where arguments are headed.

I'll try my best, but to be honest most have already blocked me. Some even tried to get me removed from the website. Not too many are wiling to get in a sparing match with me. 🤷‍♂️

[shish_kebab]

They can block you all day long but they will still read your content.
Did you know that moths aren't actually attracted to light bulbs? It's an involuntary thing they have no control over.
It's the same with your GAG enemies on here.
They can hate you all day long but they will still be reading every word you write. 😜😜

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Lol, oh trust me I know.
One in particular plays that game endlessly.
He blocks me, occasionally replies to my questions or comments, and then blocks me.
He even posted a question a few months back on how to get my account removed. 😂

[shish_kebab]

I have no idea how this site makes money, but it wouldn't behoove them to go around killing their cash cows just to appease someone who was butt hurt over your content. 😜

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Lol I'm just a guy 🤷‍♂️

[shish_kebab]

Yep.

[exitseven]

They will never give in to President Trump/ The mullahs have enough cash stashed away that they can hide out or leave the country. They do not care about the citizens that have to live there. The only way this ends is if the citizens take up arms against the current regime.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

That I would agree with.

[Dargil]

Do they have the will? Do they have the arms?

[FrodoSkywalker007]

@Dargil iran is a perfect example of why the right to arms is important. 🤷‍♂️

[Dargil]

We would have to smuggle in arms and distribute them along the people. I don't think the Congress would buy that.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

@Dargil I'd agree.

[exitseven]

Thanks for the MHO😎

[capriVib]

It completely depends on the Iranian people. The regime will keep going like this even if people starve to death. The US doesn't actually care about the regime, they just want total control over the oil. It's not even about nukes either. Saudi Arabia has been run by an ultra-conservative religious regime for a century, did the US ever touch them? No. The real issue is that Iran doesn't sell its oil in US dollars, they trade in Yuan, and the US can't stand that. Iran has been under Western sanctions since the 70s simply because they want full control over their own oil.

​Honestly, these attacks are going to completely flip the balance in the Middle East. Gulf countries and the Arab world don't trust the US anymore either, because Trump's erratic, impulsive bad calls completely shattered that trust. The whole arrangement used to be simple: Arabs safely make money selling oil in US dollars, and in return, they funnel money back to the US for defense and weapons. But between these wars and things like Israel striking Qatar, that balance is cooked. The Arab states will definitely look for alternatives now.

​Would the Iranian people ever trust the US? Not unless they have literally zero choice left. The US bombed a school there, if someone bombed a school in your country, you'd never shut up about it for 40 years. Are the people living in the region idiots? Why on earth would they trust Israel, which bombs everywhere in the Middle East purely to satisfy its own sick fantasies?

​The Iranian regime is awful, but the US and Israel are even worse. If I’m not mistaken, the people there are basically forced to back an irrational regime just to keep from handing their country over. If they cave, they might bend the knee on the nuclear stuff, but long-term they’re going to protect their oil at all costs. The US can’t just swoop in and hijack the oil here like they did with Venezuela. Iranians are a much tougher crowd, and this isn't America’s backyard anymore where they can easily throw their weight around.

​On another note, why are you constantly trying to dictate your views to everyone on this site? You've got people here from all kinds of different places with totally different perspectives. Do you really think you're going to round everyone up and force them to think just like you? Sounds like an exhausting, completely pointless waste of time.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Incorrect.
Surveys of Iranians show rampant support for regime change
gamaan.org/.../

This largely debunks your top claims.

I never made claims of the US wanting regime change. I'd like to see it. I have a friend in Tehran. It's been a major disagreement of mine with Trump.

The war has actually forced an Israeli Arab alliance

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Let's go through your points here 1 by 1.

"It completely depends on the Iranian people. The regime will keep going like this even if people starve to death. The US doesn't actually care about the regime, they just want total control over the oil. It's not even about nukes either. Saudi Arabia has been run by an ultra-conservative religious regime for a century, did the US ever touch them? No. The real issue is that Iran doesn't sell its oil in US dollars, they trade in Yuan, and the US can't stand that. Iran has been under Western sanctions since the 70s simply because they want full control over their own oil"

I agree with some points. Iran has been a thorn in the US side in the region for decades. Thry have launched hundreds of attacks and killed over 1,000 Americans
www.fdd.org/.../

Most of the rest, if say you are generally correct about.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

​"Honestly, these attacks are going to completely flip the balance in the Middle East. Gulf countries and the Arab world don't trust the US anymore either, because Trump's erratic, impulsive bad calls completely shattered that trust. The whole arrangement used to be simple: Arabs safely make money selling oil in US dollars, and in return, they funnel money back to the US for defense and weapons. But between these wars and things like Israel striking Qatar, that balance is cooked. The Arab states will definitely look for alternatives now."

This is a interesting claim. It shows you as an IRGC apologist. As opposed to Iran striking residential neighborhoods and oil tankers? The UAE ambassador disagrees with you

UAE minister calls Iran attack on Gulf states ‘almost unhinged’ / Middle East Eye
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5Y-fIwm-h0

[FrodoSkywalker007]

"
​Would the Iranian people ever trust the US? Not unless they have literally zero choice left. The US bombed a school there, if someone bombed a school in your country, you'd never shut up about it for 40 years. Are the people living in the region idiots? Why on earth would they trust Israel, which bombs everywhere in the Middle East purely to satisfy its own sick fantasies"

As opposed to tens of thousands killed by the regime? time.com/.../
As opposed to current surveys showing support for regime change? gamaan.org/.../

Did the Nazi occupied regions support Nazis because the allies killed civlians? This is a reality of war, and a weak argument.

You believe hundreds killed by US and Israeli bombs will make Iranians support a regime that murdered Tens of thousands of them in days?

[FrodoSkywalker007]

"
​The Iranian regime is awful, but the US and Israel are even worse. If I’m not mistaken, the people there are basically forced to back an irrational regime just to keep from handing their country over. If they cave, they might bend the knee on the nuclear stuff, but long-term they’re going to protect their oil at all costs. The US can’t just swoop in and hijack the oil here like they did with Venezuela. Iranians are a much tougher crowd, and this isn't America’s backyard anymore where they can easily throw their weight around."

You need to learn history. Iran already sold off half its oil shares under the Shah 🤷‍♂️. Though he did nationalize it in the 70s. Iranians are certainly tough. They showed that by suffering tens of thousands dead while protesting their regime. What has the US done recently that even comes close to those levels? Let alone in its history 🤷‍♂️ What about Israel?

[FrodoSkywalker007]

"
​On another note, why are you constantly trying to dictate your views to everyone on this site? You've got people here from all kinds of different places with totally different perspectives. Do you really think you're going to round everyone up and force them to think just like you? Sounds like an exhausting, completely pointless waste of time."

Who is dictating? I asked a question. Why are you so offended that this is your response?

[capriVib]

Iranians were never happy with the regime to begin with, and it's true they slaughtered 50,000 people. If the US had just sat back and done nothing, the regime would’ve imploded on its own anyway. By launching attacks, they only dragged out the whole process and handed them a lifeline. Come on, just admit it: Trump made some solid moves regarding Venezuela and Greenland, but the idea of going into Iran was flat-out terrible.

​And if there’s supposedly this "Israeli-Arab alliance," why did literally every single Arab delegation walk out during Netanyahu’s UN speech, except the UAE? 🤔

​I’m talking about you constantly tagging users here like jshm2 and others. The second someone doesn't agree with you, you immediately start shaming them with baseless labels, calling them "Qatari agents" or "mullah regime shills."

​Anyway, I don't really have time for this. If you reply, I probably won't get back to you my schedule is pretty packed this week 🤷‍♂️ 😂

[FrodoSkywalker007]

"Iranians were never happy with the regime to begin with, and it's true they slaughtered 50,000 people. If the US had just sat back and done nothing, the regime would’ve imploded on its own anyway. By launching attacks, they only dragged out the whole process and handed them a lifeline. Come on, just admit it: Trump made some solid moves regarding Venezuela and Greenland, but the idea of going into Iran was flat-out terrible."

So, all the reports of mass casualties and a regime asserting its dominance were false?
Instead, the US and Israel destroying much of Iran's military infrastructure to such a degree that the regime had to rely on proxy forces to guard the streets from protest. Not to mention entire economic collapse, somehow doesn't? I've already disproven your claim more people support the regime, it's the opposite. Currently, regime forces being killed by citizens is a common weekly trend

LIVE: Armed Iranians Assassinate IRGC Police Captain - Trump Shuts Down Iran Airlines / Tousi TV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0zbHzZH5FQ

What I'm speaking about on accordance to Israel is how the Arab states were forced to work Israel to fight off Iranian attacks, and coordinate operations

LIVE: Saudi Arabia Team Up With Israel Against IRGC In Iran - Houthi Fighters Captured By Yemen / Tousi TV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm3ZhMhmIlI

And no, not all arab nations walked out. Bahrain and UAE didn't for example. Much of this centers around the the Gaza issue, and it's an situation that Palestine has largely won politically and socially. Even in the west. Though, that's been changing recently. 🤷‍♂️

[FrodoSkywalker007]

​I’m talking about you constantly tagging users here like jshm2 and others. The second someone doesn't agree with you, you immediately start shaming them with baseless labels, calling them "Qatari agents" or "mullah regime shills."

Likely because they are?
It's becoming a well known issue in the western world

'Raises a lot of questions': Qatar has spent nearly $100B in the U. S. to gain influence: Report / MS NOW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyGW1KiB4eE

This massively dwarfs Israeli contributions during an Era of mass antisemitism

New Rule: Clash of Civilizations Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO) / Real Time with Bill Maher
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xbwnnQPXR4

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Let's also look at figures like jshm2.
He recently answered a question on here about his favorite things to do.
His answer? Stepping on the necks of Americans.

Either he's a troll, or he's an extremist.
Following his posts give an extreme anti western attitude.

Should such figures be accepted by me, or called out?

If you ally yourself with him, then it's clear what your perspectives are. This is why I call him a Qatari agent, or troll, or islamist. It's because his answers are routinely in that vein.

My questions here often routinely question western acceptance of these trends. It invites figures like jshm2, who openly want western collapse, to gain influence.

It's why I posted a question about restructuring US education. Just recently, a college dropout (Crowder) destroyed a Harvard prof on tenure. This prof accepted the discrimination and collapse of merit in top tier Unis.

Why? Because of suicidal empathy. We live in a age that Queers for Palestine is a movement. The gay community supports a group that would kill them (and openly admits it), and puts in its own charter that destruction of jews as a central objective. Yet, they fight against a community of people (Israel) who support gays, and are native to the land the fight, fighting a war started by arabs who have called for their annihilation.

Is that not stupid?
Is the ridiculous virtue signalling not pointless?
Democrats hailing criminals as heros (Floyd), the UN giving power to bad actors (Sudan as a member of the human rights committee).

Just because westerners want to feel good about themselves? 😂
While you others laugh at them (you know you do).
You see them as so stupid. Watch Europe as it's nations collapse to mass migration, while it's native suffer under two tier police systems.
Birmingham UK doesn't even have a white figures in leadership. 😂

[FrodoSkywalker007]

You are not talking to some westerner who is afraid of being called some form of "ism" just so you can win an argument without making a point. Your emotional appeals will not work with me. I'm interested in only facts.

If you follow my questions, you will see they are heavily critical of western acceptance of this nonsense. Then we have figures like the one discussed above who pretend to be westerners, to infiltrate, to spread vitriol, to troll. Whatever it might be.

Think of this conversation.
You quickly skip out of every point and resort to "why does it matter" or "why are you so mean" type arguments for some pointless emotional plea. Something that might work on westerners with suicidal empathy. Not on me 🤷‍♂️

[capriVib]

Yeah, Arab countries are cooperating with Israel against Iran, but that doesn't mean they suddenly trust Israel or the US. Those are two completely different things.

And you keep talking about how terrible the Iranian regime is as if I'm defending it. I'm not. My point is that foreign military intervention can make things even worse, no matter how awful the regime is. Calling people Qatari agents or IRGC supporters just because they disagree with you still proves absolutely nothing.

But one thing is clear to me: the biggest loser in this war isn't the IRGC or America. It's the Iranian people. And Trump hasn't exactly come out looking like a winner either. 😂

I honestly have no idea how the Iranian people will react, so I don't think either of us can make any definite predictions. But Iran clearly can't keep going like this forever.

If I'm not mistaken, even China has basically abandoned Iran on the nuclear issue. Maybe things would've turned out differently if China had fully backed them. At this point, it looks like Iran will either have to give in or this oil crisis will drag on for a long time.

I think Trump is preparing to hit Iran extremely hard. The US has been building up its military presence, and I wouldn't be surprised if this war continued throughout the rest of his presidency.

I also think high fuel prices are going to stick around for quite a while. I seriously doubt Washington cares enough about oil exports through the Strait of Hormuz to make ending this crisis its top priority. If it did, wouldn't it have done more to reopen the strait already?

The US has its own oil production, and Venezuela is another factor in the equation. I think Trump believes he can afford to drag this out.

[capriVib]

Dude, I genuinely laughed when you said Qatar was responsible for Israel's terrible reputation. 😂 You've said this before, and Netanyahu even brought it up in his UN speech.

Seriously, who the fuck is Qatar compared to Israel? You're telling me a tiny country with around 2 million people and a bunch of oil and gas somehow managed to ruin Israel's reputation across the entire world?

Israel has powerful allies and enormous political and economic influence. And you're seriously blaming Qatar for its terrible reputation?

Even social media platforms have faced accusations of censoring criticism of Israel. The British Consulate in Jerusalem literally had its X account suspended after posting about Palestinian detainees.

www.aa.com.tr/.../4003777

And now you're telling me Qatar is somehow manipulating the entire world against Israel? 😂

No, Israel has committed so many violations of international law and faced so much criticism over the past century that it simply can't hide its terrible reputation anymore.

People are finally waking up to the cruelty of Zionist policies. Israel used to receive enormous sympathy because Jewish people were historically persecuted and suffered the Holocaust. But people are now realizing that being victims of historical persecution doesn't automatically make the Israeli government any better than the governments it condemns.

Israel's reputation wasn't destroyed by Qatar. Its own actions did that.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Let's correct some assumptions of yours here. Because you spent your reply not denying my counter argument (go figure), but going elsewhere.

I don't call people Qatari agents or IRGC trolls unless they spout IRGC propaganda. Only 2 figures on this website have been called out by me. 1. 888thegreat, because he posted actual IRGC propaganda on questions, including a claim of massive US naval losses. 2. Jshm2, because he routinely posts extreme anti western answers and generally treats people horribly. I even had someone answer a recent question of mine asking why he was such a dick. 🤷‍♂️

You seem to agree with me on my positions of Iran's current state, so I'll move on from that 🤷‍♂️

[FrodoSkywalker007]

I never made a claim that Qatar was responsible for Israel's position. Instead, I've spoken about the irony of the claim of the domination of zionism or Israeli policy (usually point to AIPAC), when Qatar throws far more money at the west. If you didn't know, they are the largest foreign funder of US education. Yes, that clearly gives a nation like Qatar the ability to win a propaganda war against Israel. This is likely why there is such support for terrorist organizations in the west. It's why groups like Queers for Palestine exist. 🤷‍♂️
Nowhere do I ever make the claim that Israel shouldn't be criticized.

You are once again misinterpreting my arguments.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Why do left-wing people not like people who are white? ↗

Check jshm2s answer.
That is what I mean.
Imagine if I said "let's wipe out all muslims"
🤷‍♂️ he's an extremist, and I treat him as such

[strateguy632]

the leaders dont care that the citizens suffer. that bank branches closed because can't afford workers and budget! atm' off so people can't get cash.

so they will not submit to these. but if locals are really killing irgc' it might submit.

[strateguy632]

of course gdp is more than 10% lower but they control the media and reports to make a smalll loss.

[Dargil]

No. Their Shia apoctalyptic religious idelogy wills them to die for Allah. They believe they are in the end times and nothing else matters. The only way they will capitulate is when their radical religious leadership is dead. Even if we nuke Pickaxe Mountain, they will continue terrorist acts until their clergy is annihilated. The Japanese would have done the same unless we nuked them.

[DryGermanGuy]

Iran hasn't given much of a damn about the United States since 1979 and it doesn't seem to change anytime soon. They figure, Trump will be gone in two years and someone with a brain and diplomatic competence will be in office to negotiate then, if necessary.

I actually would have supported Trump, had he built a broad military coalition to remove the Mullah regime and give the Iranians their country back, but of course that won't happen.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

I'm sure they gave a damn after attacking US assets 100s of times and killing over 1,000 Americans since 1979? 🤷‍♂️
If anything, they seem obsessed, since Death to American chants are common in their parliament.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

www.fdd.org/.../
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202511042838
www.washingtonpost.com/.../

I only deal in facts, not emotions 🤷‍♂️

[DryGermanGuy]

These attacks have usually been committed by some paid extremist proxy groups... Iran has been smart enough never to provide the United States with a real casus belli. And you should ignore the performance rhetorics.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

So, if the US uses proxies groups to attack others, it doesn't matter? Or if the US said something like "Evil Empire" in relation to the USSR, it shouldn't be take as a serious statement by that government?

[DryGermanGuy]

Stop confusing things. Everything matters, but within its context. Outside of Trump, I want to believe that U. S. governments tend to be on the right side of history, however clumsily or incompletely. And no, simple rhetorics like "Evil Empire" doesn't mean much, it's the action you have to watch. For example, dropping democratic White China for Red China.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

So once again, if the USA supports militant factions to do harm or overthrow a government, it doesn't matter?
Let's say the US trained and funded a group called Brigade 2506, and orchestrated attacks on an island nation with them?
Or perhaps if by some happenstance the US supported an organization called the Contras in some strange for distant land to overthrow a government

The US them holds not responsibility?

Also, if a President of the USA by some strange chance said something along the lines of "a civilization will die tonight" in reference to an opponent. Then I assume any sort of outcry against such statements should be dismissed as overkill?

[Effably]

First of I think you're overstating the impact.

Second it doesn't really matter. Iran's view is being stuck in a unjust "war" by a warcriminal who can not be trusted.

It is far too easy for their leadership to justify holding out and, barring strong incentives, no reason for them not to.

One would have to be very optimistic to think Iran would be the one to cave here.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

50,000+ deaths would disagree with you.

[Effably]

And that is the point I am making. There are about 6000 dead in Iran. About 10 000 if we include allies.

You're exaggerating by five to eight times. The rest is no more accurate either.

But, of course Iran is suffering. Just not anywhere near as much as you think.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

I'm talking about the protests, not estimates if IRGC deaths.

Imagine a nation that willingly suffers many tens if thousands of deaths due to protests against government actions and economic issues..
Then it suffers massive losses militarily, and sees a much deeper economic collapse.
It's bad enough that even the minority that are pro regime have protected against the government.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Take the Rial for example. The exchange rates in 2025 were around 600,000 to 1 dollar. Now, it's bordering around 2.5 million to 1 dollar.

That's just one example.
How does a government survive without income? How does it validate itself among its minority of supporters (estimated at 20% of population at the very most according to gamann), when it can no longer supply even the basics?

What are it's actions? Desperate strikes on shipping and residential areas in neighboring nations?

It's a very bad place to be in.

[Effably]

The largest numbers ever reported for that is 36 000. If we combine the largest numbers ever reported for the war we would indeed almost reach 50 000.

But if we look at verified deaths the massacres have less than 2000. A credible enough statement of 3000 from the Iranian government who while absolutely might be lying seems odd to admit it at all if they wanted to lie.

Ignoring sensationalism gives us incredibly different numbers. Not saying to dismiss the notion the numbers were much higher but there simply is no evidence. Just like there is no evidence all the protesters were incited by US agents, which is the Iranian government claim.

Anyway. Not defending Iran or US actions in this mutual crime against humanity. Iran is unlikely to collapse and even if it did, that would not cause them to agree with Trump's demands. The Iran standpoint is that US backs down and compensates.

Given the unjust, illegal, state of the pointless war they are not incorrect there. To be clear, USA already had rights to search for Nukes back under Biden. That lasted until this fiasco. The attack is a failed publicity stunt.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

gamaan.org/.../

So, yes, it's a dying regime.
Especially without much support
Even nations that "support" it are hesitant due to sanctions
finance.yahoo.com/.../...ells-banks-193718005.html
This is not new, but with Iran's lack of exports, it will be crippling. It already is 🤷‍♂️

[FrodoSkywalker007]

The numbers are bases off hospitals reports in Iran.
I'd suggest you to research and return
You are preaching regime propaganda

Iran always ignored agreements. This was the point
www.cfr.org/articles/iran-cheating-nuclear-deal

[FrodoSkywalker007]

www.theguardian.com/.../iran-protests-death-toll-disappeared-bodies-mass-burials-30000-dead
time.com/.../

The larger numbers are confirmed internally.
They are not made up by the West.
Instead, it's based off officials and hospital staff within Iran.
Seeing you spout regime propaganda is sickening. 🤷‍♂️

[FrodoSkywalker007]

No offense friend, but you are a perfect example of why I posted the question about suicidal empathy and western support of terrorism.
You don't "support" them, but give them the benefit of the doubt.
You openly ignore a historic relationship that has led to many hundreds of America deaths and attacks on US assets for decades www.fdd.org/.../
You gladly ignore Iranian actions during the nuclear talks under Obama (remember, they even threatened Hormuz in 2012, causing spikes) www.history.com/.../7-historical-fights-over-strait-of-hormuz
You also ignore Iran not abiding by IAEA standards www.cfr.org/articles/iran-cheating-nuclear-deal
Not to mention the endless chants of Death to America in Parliament, where I seem to remember people freaking out about Trump talking about the death of a civilization

The truth death of a civilization will be this senseless suicidal empathy and partisan politics of the west.

We are so clueless that even a college dropout like Crowder can intellectually wipe the floor with a Harvard prof on tenure. See my question about restructuring education 🤷‍♂️

[Effably]

There is a lot of copium here. I am not going to criticize all your sources beyond restating they are all hypotheticals. And none of them change the original question to which I think we both agree anyway?

Chanting death to the enemies who illegally attacked us is however pretty sensible.

If there was a genuine concern of nuclear weapons the correct action would have been to turn to NATO or UN, have them help exert pressure and since US supposedly knew exactly where things were walking in and gotten proof together.

That never happened. It was never even talked about. This whole fiasco is and remains a PR stunt from Trump. The fact Iran is also a mostly rotten place makes it more bearable but by no means less demented of a move.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

You are not actually attempting to contend with any of my arguments here. 🤷‍♂️ I'm not surprised.

Let's not ignore, that one of my previous sources shows that those chants of death didn't magically start with Trump. This is a many decades long thing. Very ironic we throw such a fit with Trump saying "a civilization is going to die" but openly ignore Parliament based statements of death that last for decades.

Id also suggest you to avoid the claims of Operation Ajax. It's very ironic those who speak of the operation, ignore the debates in the history community of its effectiveness. Instead, many argue it was organic. It's further interesting to note the US never installed the Shah, for he already held power, and within the Iranian constitution had the right to elect and remove the PM. It's further ironic that Mossadegh was a dictator 🤷‍♂️ So, let's slip that before you embarrass yourself on the inevitable direction of this conversation

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Furthermore, should we trust the UN? An organization that elected Sudan to the Human Rights Committee? It's something both liberals and conservatives can agree on. The UN is inept.

NATO is sadly incapable without US support according to Mark Rutte, and even much of it'd infrastructure is hollowed out. Just look at the state of the British Navy 🤷‍♂️

Also, Iran wasn't obligated to give access to undeclared facilities or military installations. It could dispute inspections and create month long delays before access was granted. It also ignore the agreement would have been phased out already and been given legal access to industrial scale enrichment, and that Iran targeted Europe as not keeping to commitments 🤷‍♂️. It also ignored ballistic missiles, which the current war has proven Iran lied about. Even the Saudis and others argued thst funds in the agreement largely went to proxies. It further ignored the military dimension of the program thst already existed and worked from the assumption that it never happened. It was deeply flawed.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Sources for above statements
courthousenews.com/.../
www.washingtonpost.com/.../
www.tabletmag.com/.../cia-coup-in-iran-that-never-was-mossadegh
courthousenews.com/.../

The Shocking State of Britain's Navy 2026 / Mark Felton Productions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gru2EDJvj9Q

I believe that covers them 🤷‍♂️ sorry if I missed a couple. Feel free to argue any of those stated points.

[NoDecision]

Would you rather Iran get nukes which would allow them to do what they want in the region? They have enough ballistic missiles to reach Israel and everyone else around them. I don't think any scenario is ideal. In the meantime our economy also sucks due to this war and our National Debt rises every day. So it is not only Iran's economy that suffers. Maybe it's time For Trump to kiss and make up. But maybe he personally is making too much money off this war?

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Honestly, the US economy is still in a better position than under Biden.
Even gas prices are still lower 🤷‍♂️
Though Diesel has been largely influenced by the recent Ukraine strikes on Russia.

I don't really see how that's comparable to Iran's economy, which is literally collapsing.

[Pterodon]

Kiss and make up? Are you kidding me?

[Anonymous]

No. The Iranian leadership are happy to be lords of the ashes as long as they are lords.

America is happy to continue thd conflict indefinitely because everyone affected are economic rivials.

[Agape93]

Wait wait wait, hold the fuck up. Iran had an economy outside selling goats and children to lonely pervs, or oil to russia?

[MrChinaski]

Read Nicholas Mulder, The Economic Weapon: The Rise of Sanctions as a Tool of Modern War. No, seriously. It's meant to be very good. I heard a podcast on it. The main conclusion is that he likely does not share your prediction.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Perhaps not, but we also live in a Era when a Harvard professor holding tenure can be destroyed in a debate by a college dropout.
See my video on restructuring education.
This is also the same university that was attempting to validate pedophilia not long ago.
Why would I take such things seriously, when thry have openly become echo chambers and push out dissenting voices?
This Harvard professor (who has held tenure since 1989) openly admitted massive discrimination at top tier schools, and the collapse of merit.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

www.hoover.org/.../economic-weapon-rise-sanctions-tool-modern-war

Reading the interview doesn't seem to add up to your claims.
Clearly, an argument is of its failed use on large economies, which are resource rich. That, I understand.
He uses many other examples, where it works.

One thing you ignore is unlike his examples of Japan, Germany, and Russia, where it failed.
Those regimes didn't have massive internal battles. Instead, they were relatively unified.

Iran, not only suffers from massive internal struggles, but also sanctions are not the only aspect. The blockade has cut off the majority of its exports for example.

I'd suggest you look deeper into the differences 🤷‍♂️

[MrChinaski]

Anyway. You are right that the Iranian economy is hurting.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

Of course 🤷‍♂️

[Cidknee]

The people should, with help from the hidden hierarchy, rise up and slay the ones in charge. Thus, it's then sort of a draw.

[lilBigPotato]

I don't see much changing. Iran has been under economical pressure for decades. Nothing new to them.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

50,000 dead would disagree 🤷‍♂️
Not to mention these levels are unknown to them. It's far worse now.

[lilBigPotato]

Iranian leadership doesn't care about it's population and the opposition isn't in a position to overthrow them. Before the way, tens of thousand of people died during the protests and it changed nothing. The war hasn't changed anything about the situation. Maybe it will some day, but that isn't today or tomorrow.

[lilBigPotato]

Before the war*

[FrodoSkywalker007]

It's sad seeing westerners collapsing, no wonder western Europe is a shell of its former self.

The regime lacks support, money, and barely can control its own people. Weekly, there are assassinations of regime figures. It was forced to enlist foreign proxies to patrol its streets because it didn't have the manpower to do it.
It's lost influence over Hormuz, and isn't able to export anything.
How does a regime survive without money?
Even recently it's leadership complained its funds on China were frozen 🤷‍♂️

[DryGermanGuy]

Are you generally a bit slow or do you have a weird fetish about "collapsing"? Nothing and nobody is collapsing here. We know so, because we live here. You don't.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

@DryGermanGuy your values and common sense.
Your hatred of a man overrides everything.
Common sense no longer exists.
You'd rather operate through suicidal empathy to virtue signal than admit what's right
It's a sad fact of western society as a whole.
Yes, that includes the USA.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

@DryGermanGuy for example, see my recent question on restructuring education.
How do we get to the point when a dropout is able to intellectually wipe the floor with a Harvard prof holding tenure?
This is because we have become societies that care little for facts. We are emotionally driven and easily manipulated.

[DryGermanGuy]

Remember, you're the guy that believes a deworming agent would help against a Corona virus, just because some goofs are discussing it on a show called Joe Rogaine.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

@DryGermanGuy I never made the claim.
Instead, I accurately stated that CNN misreported it for political reasons.

Or do you deny Sanjay Gupta (of CNN), who acknowledged on Joe Rogan, CNN was wrong

Joe Rogan exposes Sanjay Gupta and CNN's propaganda / Mercennarius
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkTXEexNB2E

Or perhaps Chris Cuomo (of CNN) who takes ivermectin for it?

Chris Cuomo is Taking Ivermectin After Trashing it as 'Poison' / TheDC Shorts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh3dxnrO0tE

[FrodoSkywalker007]

@DryGermanGuy honestly, the fact this is your response is very telling. It's ironic 🤷‍♂️

[jshm2]

LOL. You mean the US will capitulate to Iran's demands.

The US has a larger economy under strain than Iran.

[FrodoSkywalker007]

$5 dollar gas,. which is still lower than Bidens administration in 2022.
Vs
Complete economic collapse

Your dream world is funny

[Paige2006]

They will try but it means nothing as they don't follow any agreement

[Anonymous]

Nope