Why do you think so many people look down on the teaching profession in American society?

[Prof_Don]

Teaching (from preschool to collegiate) is one of the most important professions in American society, because of the very large amount of influence they have on the youth during their development into adulthood.

Yet this profession is looked down upon in American society, as in it isn't glamorized as much as other professions.

A common saying is: "ones that can do, do...and the ones that can't, teach."

It's a rather sad way to think about a profession that has a HUGE impact on how the youth develop into adulthood.

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Why do you think that the teaching profession isn't as respected in America compared to other professions that don't have as much societal impact?

[diosadelanoche]

You know, I wholeheartedly believe public service as a whole is way undervalued in this country. Most public service jobs - teachers, counselors, community organizers, case managers - are extremely low-paid. I get so much side-eye from people when they ask what I do for a living, and I say that I coach low-income students through high school graduation and the college application process. For most people, these are merely side-projects that you do on the weekend every once in a while so you look like you care about the community. But the idea that someone would dedicate their life to this kind of thing rather than wanting to get a dull, paper-chasing job makes you naive and impractical.

I think it's because people don't realize how much work (mental, physical, and emotional) goes into jobs like these. People seem to think teachers show up when class starts, talk all day, and leave when class is over. They don't realize teachers spend much of their "free" time writing lesson plans and grading papers, and that they spend most of their "personal" money buying school supplies and things that enhance their students' classroom experience. This leads to them being underpaid, and because they are underpaid, people assume they don't work hard because they don't bring home six-figure checks like some Wall Street-er or lawyer.

It's really a shame. I think people who work in public service contribute way more to society than some accountant who manages some rich guy's money for a living, but I'm not optimistic about America's ability to realize that.

[Prof_Don]

The last paragraph summarizes my thoughts perfectly...it's interesting to know how mentally sync'd we are on this topic. :-D

[Settingemstraight]

I disagree with your last topic completely.

Basic Economics will show you why

[DanAG]

"They don't realize teachers spend much of their "free" time writing lesson plans and grading papers"

Every time this topic comes up teachers say this. But here's the deal. 1) It's not like teachers are the only ones who work overtime. Other professions work outrageously long hours. 2) That extra time is basically voluntary. Not all teachers do it. 3) They only work 9-10 months a year. 4) You can't just look at base pay. Their benefits are probably in the top 5% of all professions.

[DanAG]

The problem with #2 is that teachers are unionized and their pay is based on seniority and not merit. The teacher who grades papers until midnight gets paid the same as the one who leaves work after 6 hours and doesn't do a thing after that.

Pay is not just about the value placed on the job by society. That's only half of it. The other half is how many people want to do it. If a lot of people want to be teachers that drives the pay down. A shortage causes the opposite.

[DanAG]

A roof over your head is more important than an education, because you'd probably die without it. Carpenters are very low pay compared to what they do. It requires intelligence, skill, and hard labor, all of which should drive the pay up. But the pay is very low. Why? Because there are far more people who want to do it than there are jobs available. Most carpenters love the work. That drives the pay down and it has nothing to do with the relative prestige given to the job by society.

[DanAG]

Sorry about the rant, I'm bored :)

[InquisitiveMale]

It's sad that most don't actually live up to those standards of teaching. Many are the show up, talk all day, and leave when class is over kind of teacher.

[diosadelanoche]

I'm going to respond to your comments in order.

Re: Long Hours - Yes, other professions work outrageously long hours, but for the most part those professionals get paid overtime. As for anyone who does not get paid for the long hours they work, that's abusive behavior on the part of their employers, and I don't think we should condone that because "other people do it too." People should be paid for the hours they work, end of story.

[diosadelanoche]

Re: Merit - I'm totally with you. I think it sucks that teachers who do put in 100% get paid exactly the same as teachers who don't. If the reason teachers are underpaid is in fact because there isn't a shortage, then I think that totally supports my point that teaching is undervalued in society. If we valued teaching, it wouldn't matter if lots of people want to teach, because it would be an issue of quality over quantity. They'd hire only the best rather than assume any old body is fine.

[diosadelanoche]

Re: Carpenters - I disagree with you - I think the fact that carpenters don't get paid a lot is indicative of its "prestige." Lots of people want to be actors too, but they still bring in the cash. And that's because while there are lots of people who want to be actors, the industry will only select the cream of the crop. And that's how it would go for teaching and carpentry if we thought those jobs were equally valuable.

[diosadelanoche]

And no problem - I'm up for a healthy debate anytime. :)

InquisitiveMale - Where do you get your figures that tell you "most" teachers don't live up to standards? Have you worked in education? I've been in education for years and know a lot of teachers. While there are the ones you described, in my experience they're the exception rather than the rule.

[why-makoto-kun]

I'm not sure. Maybe it's because of a lot of parents who don't parent, yet expect the teachers to go above and beyond their jobs (teaching morals, etc.).

Either way, good teachers (not the mean ones who roll their eyes at a question) should get paid way more for what they do IMO.

[DanAG]

Should be paid way more? I don't know where you are from but in the US they are already fairly high paid for the time they put in, especially when you consider their benefits are WAY higher than average, like near the top of the scale. They are well above average for professions with college degrees.

[Anonymous]

i don't know but it's a pretty sad reflection on society...if you don't value educators then education will suffer, and your kids will become stupider, and they will grow into stupid adults who will vote for stupid governments and your country will go down the crapper.

[InquisitiveMale]

I remember reading an article only a couple months back that talked about how many of today's parents are actually feeling guilty about their outlook towards teachers. With all the strikes and the state of the education system today parents are feeling that their kids are not getting all that they deserve. They are often blaming the teachers yet doing so with the knowledge that it is not directly indicative of their actions. Unions, government, and all that jargon.

I feel the same. My outlook towards many of my teachers throughout my academic career leaves much to be desired. I was blessed with two teachers in a slew of likely hundreds that made any kind of positive impact in my life. One in elementary and one in secondary. College was absolutely nightmare in that sense and without a single note worthy teacher.

And lets be honest, the majority of teachers out there today, they're only teaching because they found themselves with no better alternatives. They go to school, train in their profession, find a job in that field, learn they don't like it or it doesn't suit their desired lifestyle, and they look to teaching as the better alternative. Who can blame them? Good pay. Awesome hours. Plenty of time off. An adequate pension. Sounds like payday to me.

[Theguyoverthere]

It's overpaid that's why. Plus many teachers are NOT qualified underneath the surface. I had many horrible teachers in college who did absolutely nothing but play videos, segregate liked students from disliked students, and bully students by giving them bad grades. I've seen these first hand.

They make more money than hardworking people, work 10/12 months a year and get weekends off. I hear they are trying to get rid of tenure now and I think that's great. It will help make sure teachers are actually working and not slacking off now. Yet so many other people work 10x harder than them and make less money. Plus look at how many of these teachers are sexually harassing their students now. It's sick.

[DanAG]

I don't think it's looked down on. I think it's highly respected. Sure, our society places more value on other professions and I agree our idea of the relative prestige of various fields is warped.

It's not just teachers though. People like farmers, carpenters, mechanics are the core of what keeps us alive. Food, shelter, protection from the elements, are the things that are the most important to us, even more so than teachers. Yet the people in those fields are looked down upon by society.

As near as I can tell it's not just American society. It seems to be true throughout the world. Society just places high prestigious value on professions that are not necessarily the most important.

Farmers keep us all alive, and not a word of thanks for working from dawn to dusk seven days a week. Our priorities are warped.

[Anonymous]

It traditionally didn't pay a lot. (Though teachers where I live are paid quite a bit)

There are millions and millions of them. It's not a rare profession.

Most seem chosen for reasons having little to do with actually being able to teach. Some gadgets are indeed great, by a lot of them are simply moderately educated but in fields that do not lead to lucrative career paths. Teaching pays the same regardless of your background, which means it is an attractive job financially for people with few options based on their education while requiring a pay cut for those who have 'in demand' skill sets.

Then we wonder why math teaching isn't very good in our schools.

Oh the other reason they think this? They interact with their children's teachers. you don't notice so much when you're 7 years old if your teacher is a moron, but as a parent ...

[Prof_Don]

Math teaching overall is shitty, the students I sub for say this all the time. Most say "their math teacher doesn't teach we'll"

[Anonymous]

All they do is complain they don't get enough money. Yet they have great benefits, a retirement pension, they get all major holidays off of work, and most get a summer vacation. They always complain they need to raise my property taxes for the kids but class sizes get bigger anyways as teacher pensions and administrators eat up all the money. If teachers want to be rich they should find a different profession. If they cared about children they wouldn't want to raise their parents' property taxes every year.

[moaterboat]

I think teachers are overly glamorized and fawned over way too much. You see bumper stickers that say "If you can read this thank a teacher" But you never see any that read "If you're not drowning in your own sewage thank a plumber" Yes being a teacher is important, like many other jobs, but it is also pretty darn easy as far as I can tell so you won't see me gushing over how great teachers are.

[GInkgoBiloba]

"If you can type this thank a teacher." Zing.

[Anonymous]

The whole system is screwed up and teachers basically only care about how the kids score on these bullsh*t standardized tests made up by the government, It is so not about teaching and learning and all about controlling and suppressing imagination and freedom.

[TheCheekyQuill]

I think it's because people like to blame their kid's problems on the teachers. Nowadays parents don't just expect teachers to instruct their children, they want them to practically raise the kids as well. Because of this lack of involvement in the child's upbringing if the kid ever goes "Down the wrong path" the parents will often blame the most prominent adult in the child's life (i.e. the teacher) as an excuse to avoid the blame themselves.

[Anonymous]

Probably because so many people had one or more bad teachers that mocked them or picked on them, tainting their entire educational experience. That is my case anyway. This teacher was known for that. Each year he would find one student he did not like and do everything in his power to humiliate them in front of the class. One year it was my turn. Usually he went for male students but this year he went for me.

[DeepBlue]

If teachers were paid like lawyers they wouldn't be looked down upon.

[helloyes]

people are stupid teaching is the best job in the world.

get paid 100k a year, with so many breaks and the job is from 9-3.

i'm totally going to be a HS teacher when I turn 45 or something

[htarmort14]

Compare it to the Sweden teachers. There was a study about it.

[repetron]

I definitely respect it, I used to work at a science museum and I can appreciate how much teachers have to do.

[Anonymous]

because teachers are mean and they constantly complain about how little they're paid when I didn't fill out the application for them nor do I wake them up in the morning for work.

[naima17]

Education major? perhaps because its being impcted a lot since recessikn in US. Governmenet is more willing to snatch funds from teachers than health sectors( Biology ect) or engeneering

[Quizzr]

It's not just your country, I think it's most countries including Australia.

[Anonymous]

I've never seen or heard of teaching being looked down upon, I've seen cartoons make fun of teachers but that's about it.

[Anonymous]

...is it looked down upon?...If anything I'd say the opposite...

[Anonymous]

probably because they get paid a lot, gets lots of breaks and can't be fired if they've been teaching enough and they get retirement pay by the time their like 58 ish. And most teachers have such easy classes and don't put much work into them

[bDizzie]

Because unions destroyed the profession.

[Prof_Don]

curious...how so?

[bDizzie]

They won't allow the underperforming teachers to get fired. You have to pretty much molest a student and get caught before your job is on the line. And you will get suspended with pay before you are let go.

[Prof_Don]

makes sense

[Settingemstraight]

I'm pretty sure I answered this...