Who was the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time-- Joe Louis or Muhammad Ali?

[Anon-ymous1]

Boxing is the best.

Joe Louis

Muhammad Ali

Not sure/don't know enough to answer

Updates

+1 y

I personally consider Louis the greatest, with Ali close behind.

Updates

+1 y

bump

[Anonymous]

I know that Louis was a fantastic boxer, one of the best, but Ali had much greater competition, lots of great rivals: Ron Lyle, Ken Norton, Earnie Shavers, Joe Frazier, George Foreman and many others.
I'm sure that Joe Louis would beat some of the 80's and 90's fighters, including Mike Tyson, but he most likely wouldn't be able to beat Muhammad Ali.

[Poormanscomedian]

Boxers figured out Frazier and it was over. No one gained by fighting him. If he beat you it was a terrible loss, if you won it didn't mean much, because so many people already had beat him.

[Opinion Owner]

@Poormanscomedian Not exactly, Frazier lost only 4 fights, two against Ali, and two against Foreman. Nobody else managed to defeat him.

[Poormanscomedian]

He was 4-4-1 his last 9 fights

[Opinion Owner]

@Poormanscomedian Because both fights against Ali and Foreman were among those last 9 fights, that doesn't change the fact - nobody else managed to beat him except the two of them.

[Opinion Owner]

Thanks for the MHO

[Logorithim]

I think there were a greater number of top boxers among heavyweights when Ali was boxing than when Louis was (not that that Louis wasn't a great boxer- he certainly was).

[Logorithim]

Did Louis ever beat anyone as good as Foreman, Frazier or Liston?

[Poormanscomedian]

Maybe one really good boxer

[Anon-ymous1]

Yeah-- Schmeling, the one he was most famous for.

[TatyanaTheEmpress]

Ali was the best, no doubt about that. Nobody could knock him out, while Louis was knocked out in at least one of his fights, I think it was against some German boxer.

[Anon-ymous1]

Schmeling. Yeah but then he later returned the favor in a fight that didn't even get through one round. And Ali was knocked out-- by Joe Frazier.

[TatyanaTheEmpress]

Ali was never knocked out, he was knocked down but he got up and the match continued until round 15. Frazier won by decision: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight_of_the_Century
Ali later returned the favor winning the next two matches against Frazier :)

[Poormanscomedian]

No, FRAZIER knocked ALI down with a left hook, but won on decision , not knock out. Holmes beat Ali, by TKO Technical knock out , because Ali did not finish fight.

[TatyanaTheEmpress]

@Poormanscomedian Knock down is not the same as knock out, I hope you know the difference... Frazier knocked him down in round 11, but Ali continued the fight on his feet until the end (round 15).
Holmes won by TKO but that's also not KO, because there was no countdown, Ali wasn't unconscious.

[Poormanscomedian]

Right

[ChocoLada]

Ali was the best, just look at his evading maneuvers, and his blazing punching techniques:

[Anon-ymous1]

Yeah his speed was amazing but Joe Louis successfully defended his title 25 times in a row over the course of 9 years. And there simply isn't as much footage of Louis because he fought in a slightly earlier time, which isn't his fault obviously.

[ChocoLada]

I know, still, Joe couldn't defeat Rocky Marciano, who was shorter, lighter and less experienced than him.

[Anon-ymous1]

Yeah but that happens. No ones stays unbeatable forever.

[ChocoLada]

Rocky was unbeatable during his career ;)

[Poormanscomedian]

Louis only had one guy that could beat him. Ali had many great boxers to beat.

[ChocoLada]

@Poormanscomedian Yeah, that's the main point.

[BeMuse]

[ChocoLada]

@BeMuse That's nothing compared to Ali ;)

[BeMuse]

Tyson is actually slipping and counter punching a lot better. Ali was more about the rope a dope which was definitely effective but not as clean as Tyson in his prime.

[ChocoLada]

@BeMuse LoL, Tyson wasn't even close to Ali when it comes to evasive maneuvers, the only one who could dodge punches as good as Ali, was Gene Tunney.
By the way, Tyson was knocked out in his prime, while Ali was never knocked out.

[BeMuse]

Tyson also fought 31 fights in like 3 years back to back and became the undisputed heavy weight champ at 21... Ali takes a lot of punches to the sternum but reduces the impact with the flex of the ropes. That was the idea to tire people out, not dodge everything. Tyson's style is crazy hard... You really need to be in perfect shape to execute it. If feel off though obviously losing his coach, going to jail, etc. He wasn't as good of a hype man, had shorter reach, and breathing problems... None the less was a lot cleaner because he had to be inside...

[BeMuse]

*He...

[ChocoLada]

@BeMuse Ali also became the undisputed heavy weight champ at 21, but he was faster, smarter, had better tactics and superior stamina.

[BeMuse]

Ali was doing like 1-5 fights a year. He had a lot of recovery time. Tyson was doing 10 a year, sometimes they were space a couple of weeks apart.

[ChocoLada]

@BeMuse LoL again, Ali had 61 fights in his career, Tyson had only 58.
Mike didn't know how to properly arrange time schedules for the fights, he was too arrogant, now, whose fault was it?

[BeMuse]

I guess you've never competitively fought at all... I've had to fight 10 guys over 2 days and it's rough... I wasn't professionally boxing though which I'd say you need a lot more time to recover from and prepare for. If you can't appreciate what he did, you really have no room to speak on fighting to begin with. He fraught in a different era and more demanded from him.

[0112358]

Ali had much better foot speed.

Louis was apparently more mobile early but under Blackburn gave up some mobility for being set to throw bombs. He was a ferocious puncher.

[ChocoLada]

@BeMuse Ali had more endurance and more stamina, but as I said, he also had brains, unlike Mike, that's why Ali was the best. I have fighting experience in Wing Chun Kung Fu.
But hey, where is your opinion? I didn't ask the question, looks who is the asker? See? Now, stop spamming on my opinion, you can add your answer below, I don't care what you think ;)

[ChocoLada]

@0112358 Yes, I agree, Louis was one of the best punchers along with Liston, Norton and Frazier.

[ChocoLada]

Anyway, I'm not the asker, you should answer to him, not to me :)

[BeMuse]

Clearly you don't understand endurance as it relates to taking tons of fights fast… Recovery time and training for the next fight constantly. That just flies way over your head. You took a few classes woo...

[ChocoLada]

@BeMuse I know about endurance more than you do, I've been practicing since I was only 5 years old. Bye now ;)

[ChocoLada]

LoL, sure, hahahaha, dude, you're not a wrestling champion, wake up, you're dreaming 😂😂😂

[ChocoLada]

Learn to speak proper English dork, I guess your muse failed to inspire you 😏

[ChocoLada]

I'm A-Mused how dumb you are, you must have a world record in dumbness 😂

[ChocoLada]

Dude, you're repeating yourself like a parrot, you're not a wrestling champio, I bet you're just some skinny nerd who lives in fantasy world 😂
Ali's skill, speed and stamina made him a great fighter, his brain was just a big plus, cause of his crucial tactical decisions, which proved to be awesome.
Dumb people like you can't be fighters, it's all in the genes, because a natural born champion must be smart (like Bruce Lee for example).
Oh, by the way, if you want to mimic your hero Mike, I must advise you not to bite your opponent's ears, it's forbidden in all styles of wrestling 😜

[ChocoLada]

LOL, look at the Ali's fights, nobody is better in dodging and evading than him, also, nobody is slower in head and dumber than you 😂
Just praising him shows that he is your hero, but in reality, he is no match for either Ali or Louis, and many other great boxers (Marciano, Foreman, Frazier, Liston etc).
Yeah, brains are important, especially in my style, but you lack it, that's why you're so insecure, I bet you're some wimpy virgin, no girl want's you cause you're so pathetic 😂😂
LoL, I know what wrestling looks like, but that's not you in the videos, you're in your parent's basement 😂😂😂

[0112358]

I think Ali has a strong claim to being best he ever... but let’s not ignore he probably had the least power of those we are considering.

As for Tyson I think he is below the top tier but he’s ironically underrated I think (by those who don’t overrate him). Tyson’s was not the idiot who just waited for KO when he started. He had outrageous speed and good defense. His power was good (not incredible) combined with volume made him ferocious. Forget old Tyson and consider this young man:

https://youtu.be/z5rtp8guIZo

[ChocoLada]

Unlike you, I actually trained, you have very vivid imagination nerd boy 🤣

[ChocoLada]

@0112358 Actually, Tyson was overrated be certain fanatics. All he had was punching power, but even that wasn't enough against Douglas, who beat him in his prime... do you know why? Because Mike could defeat only those who were afraid of him.
Muhammad Ali defeated stronger punchers like Liston, Foreman and Shavers.
Also, Ali managed to beat much better shadowboxers like Frazier and Norton.
At least you realize that Mike is not in the top tier, unlike some amusing people here, who live in Wonderland ;)

[ChocoLada]

How "amusing", the only charlatan I see here is you nerd boy, I know what Wing Chun is, because I actually trained it, unlike you who just watched Kung Fu movies in your parent's basement 😂

[ChocoLada]

I know you’re lying, you know you’re lying, anyone who has studied Wing Chun knows you’re lying, and anyone that reads this after the fact knows you’re a pathological liar and apparently a nerd boy who lives in his parent's basement, and in his fantasy world... Dude, wake up from your dreams, I'm from the Balkans, we never let go, eat you're heart out, you'll never get rid of , me ;)

[ChocoLada]

Thank you for MHO ;)

[Anon-ymous1]

I didn't. It chose it automatically.

[madhatters4]

joe louis was amazing but ali was better

[Anon-ymous1]

Hmm you think so? I wonder.

[madhatters4]

i personally think so. i think the competition in ali's time was better. i think he did it for a far longer period of time

but it is just my opinion of course

[Anon-ymous1]

Oh no actually I'm pretty sure that Louis was on top for longer, and against more opponents. I think.

[madhatters4]

the fought about the same number of fights louis 69 to ali's 61 but we need to remember that louis for 2 years defended his title 13 times in a scenario that was dubbed "the bum of the month club".

i think the competition during the ali's years was just better.

[madhatters4]

louis had a lot of lame fights basically where he was just taken purses due to his financial issues. ali rarely took bad fights but rather whatever challenger was lined up and certainly never just took pay days

[Anon-ymous1]

Well truth except those fights weren't filmed most of the time-- how do we know that the fighters were actually bums? I think the point of that label wasn't truly to imply that the OTHER guys were trash... it was simply to imply that Louis was just that good that he was beating them all anyway.

[madhatters4]

well we don't all the film but we do have enough sports writers

[Anon-ymous1]

I guess? Kinda hard to compare though.

[madhatters4]

it is. and i it's not to disrespect joe louis at all. he was incredible. i can be convinced he was better than ali. i think a big part of it comes down to personal preference

[AdmiralBailey]

Mr Joe Louis. He was friends with my uncle and grandad so I'm biased <3

[Anon-ymous1]

Really? That's so cool.

[AdmiralBailey]

yeah

[GnarCute]

Louis was the best, Ali was also really good but nah louis better

[0112358]

Oh man. I do see them as 1 and 2. Not sure who I rank higher. I think there’s a good argument that some of Ali’s prime was stolen.

I will say one thing - for a boxer I think there’s more to learn from Louis.

[0112358]

@chocolada @BeMuse
Anyone interested in boxing who hasn’t seen Lee Wylie’s videos is missing out! The one I’m about to link is one of his longest but Is a phenomenal breakdown of schmeling Louis 1. So much to be learned.
https://youtu.be/PKVsMCUiiBA

[ImaginativeDreamer]

I'm sure Muhammad was the greatest, he defeated:
Two large monster fighters: Sonny Liston and George Foreman;
Two excellent boxing tacticians: Joe Frazier and Ken Norton;
The most powerful puncher of all times - Earnie Shavers.

[Poormanscomedian]

I will argue that one. Ken Norton was a hard puncher, he broke Ali's Jaw. Ali said Norton was hardest puncher he fought. Ali thought Norton would beat Foreman. What is really amazing, Ali continued to fight and no one new his Jaw was broken until fight was over.

[ImaginativeDreamer]

@Poormanscomedian I know that Norton broke Ali's jaw, but Ali said that Shavers was the strongest puncher he ever fought: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8gy5L6Ujuw

[Femdomina]

Joe Lewis was great, but Muhammad Ali was the greatest 💪😎✌️

[Poormanscomedian]

Right on Sister. plus I am from Louisville area. I can also tell , Ali was good friend to Jim Brown. Jim Brown retired early and was in early 30s. He was considered one of the best athletes ever. Ali told him to punch him , Brown tried and never came close, Ali hit in the stomach (not hard) . That is how quick Ali was. Ali never got punched when he was in his 20s. No one could land a punch , he moved so well. People say Tyson in his 20s could beat Ali. No way , he had a reach advantage, had quicker feet, and Ali could be the smartest boxer of all time. He came with a game plan, studied his opponent, knew weaknesses and strengths. He would not let Tyson inside and Tyson to win , he had to get inside to use an uppercut. Ali was taller too. Too many problems for Tyson to overcome.

.

[Poormanscomedian]

Ali punched Brown in the stomach

[Femdomina]

@Poormanscomedian Exactly, Ali would be untouchable for Tyson, plus the fact - Tyson was defeated by Douglas when he was in his 20s, so he wasn't that tough as people think ;)

[BeMuse]

@ChocoLada Sure you do... When you become a heavy weight state champion wrestler in a state with over 21 million people come talk to me.

[BeMuse]

Get to cunt...

[BeMuse]

Get to work cunt

[BeMuse]

Get to work cunt...

[BeMuse]

Never mind you're too dumb to be a fighter... You shouldn't even try. :)

[BeMuse]

OK lets explore you’re insane thinking patterns... In reference to Ali you said “but as I said, he also had brains...”, so this somehow made him a great fighter. Then someone who was a state champion freestyle wrestler at 220 LB couldn’t actually of been a champion because he’s a “dork”. So which is it? Does being smart make you a good fighter, or does being smart make it impossible for you to be a champion…. Like I said, you’re too dumb to be a fighter… You can’t even make the same sorts of connections from one fighter to the next, you’re only capable of parroting something you read somewhere else.

[BeMuse]

Since you're slow in the head I'll repeat what I said "Tyson is actually slipping and counter punching a lot better" in response to "Ali was the best, just look at his evading maneuvers, and his blazing punching techniques". Now go back and try to find where I said anything about him being my hero or even saying he was the best. See how dumb you are now?

Now go back and read your rant about brains " but as I said, he also had brains, unlike Mike". See where you made brains a distinguishing feature that made him superior in your pea brain? Your words are right there, you can’t change paths in an argument when it’s in text dipshit. It’s all documented dummy.

Now go practice your chi sau while listening to Joe Esposito - You're The Best Around and hope you never have to fight someone that will slam your damaged melon into the cement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9w8-vh53bo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFcRxs07GAg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLkXZOvSGIg

[BeMuse]

I’ve been trained in karate, wing chun, judo, freestyle/greco-roman/folk style wrestling, and orthodox boxing to some degree at different points in my life. Wing Chun isn’t all that complex, but has some useful bits… You wouldn’t really know that though since you never trained at all. Why you fronting?

[BeMuse]

No you haven't... Wing Chun is a simplified form of Kung Fu. It’s a system that can be learned in a little over a year. It’s more so about continuing to practice it to improve your speed, power, and your reflexes through sparing. Everyone who studied it knows this. You’re a charlatan.

[BeMuse]

I know you’re lying, you know you’re lying, anyone who has studied wing chun knows you’re lying, and anyone that reads this after the fact knows you’re a pathological liar and apparently an angry sexually confused stalker... You should just let it go.

[Iron_Man]

You didn't even put Rocky Marciano in your pol? l The only undefeated heavyweight boxing champion of the world never to lose a fight. 49 and 0 he would knock out the Bronx bomber and Cassius Clay

[Anon-ymous1]

Knock them out? No way.

[Iron_Man]

Yes way that's what he does best he catches up to you late in the rounds after he wears you down

[Poormanscomedian]

Louis had more power, Ali was quicker. No one could beat Ali from age 19 to 25 , not even Tyson. If you were bigger/stronger Ali beat you with quickness and speed, and if you were smaller , he beat you with Power.

[NYCQuestions1976]

Rocky Marciano. He NEVER lost, he NEVER had a draw (49-0).

Mike Tyson was damn good before he lost his drive and before Cus DiMato died.

[Iron_Man]

Awesome post good words here

[NYCQuestions1976]

I'll take some Most Helpful action if it's up for grabs...

[Nibelung]

Louis is my favorite, I think he would won vs Ali on points, just like Holmes did.

[ItalianGuyReturns]

I didn't know someone as feminine as you likes boxing

[SketchForger]

Would any of them be able to beat Mike Tyson in his prime though?

People were afraid of him for a reason.

[Anon-ymous1]

Hard to say.

[SketchForger]

Why am I getting down voted? XD

[Anonymous]

Louis was the best, Ali was kina too feminine for a boxer.

[Opinion Owner]

*kinda*

[Anon-ymous1]

Uh... huh?

[Opinion Owner]

Errr, *kinda* means "kind of".

[Anon-ymous1]

No I mean "huh?" as in "huh?" to your entire comment.

[thottttiana]

Rocky. The guy from Brockton

[thottttiana]

Upvote me

[thottttiana]

Upvote me.

[thottttiana]

Upvote me..

[Iron_Man]

I 100% agree with you about it Upvoted

[genericname85]

klitschko. he would probably just one punch ali.

[Poormanscomedian]

No one could one punch Ali. He was smart. Can you run and catch a Rabbit? That was what it was like punching Ali.

[genericname85]

@Poormanscomedian pure idolization.

[genericname85]

Intelligence doesn't help you when the 100 ton train hits your face. Yeah maybe Klitschko will miss him a few times but eventually he will hit him and he'll be down. Ali could never win this fight.

[Anon-ymous1]

No way dude, probably wouldn't have happened.

[genericname85]

Just compare the physique. So couldn't even hurt him.

[0112358]

Louis hit harder than klitscko (either).

I think vitali would have been a damn tough out for any of the ATG he though. Decent power surprising volume tremendous size very smart and excellent jaw (unlike his brother who had the better hands and jab)

[genericname85]

@0112358 I wonder how you determined that, cause to me just visually, Louis looks way weaker.

[0112358]

Louis punching mechanics are textbook for maximal power. His one shit damage on opponents over career is evidence. Strength and explosiveness and size matter a lot, but how well connected the kinetic
Chain and how well leg drive into hip rotation works matters tremendously.

This is not to suggest wlad had bad technique. Particularly under Stewart he adopted a conservative “boxing” style. Wlads jab -was- very heavy and better than Louis. I think you could argue he did have an all time great jab among heavyweights (Larry Holmes being with him). But wlads stance and positions prioritized boxing where Louis was a counterpuncher with his hip loaded to kill all the time.

[Anonymous]

Probably Louis, because muslims are not really experts in boxing.

[Anon-ymous1]

1) Huh?
2) Refer back to #1.

[Opinion Owner]

What man, I thought you prefer Louis too... for the same reason.

[douride2]

Not sure but I'm going to say Lois was the better.

[respondergirl]

My dad likes Ali so ill just choose him.

[Rick912]

That would have been an interesting fight.

[Anon-ymous1]

It would have. The two greatest of all time meet.

[Poormanscomedian]

Rocky was too old to fight the younger Ali.