Why do people underestimate Chinas army?

[ChefPapiChulo]

They play armchair general and underestimate armies like the one China has. I mean these people don’t have a single clue, yet they’re talking about world armies as if they were talking about their favorite sports team.

completely delusional.

Updates

6 mo

If anyone underestimates China, they are clinically delusional.

Updates

6 mo

just to be clear i'm not saying we should go to war or be enemies with china. rather, we should be aware that they are a threat and a very serious threat.

[Anonymous]

#1, Lack of visible recent military success
Biggest reason is that China has not actively taken part in any major - above regional level - military conflict in the past century. This totally makes it hard to actually evaluate how they would stand a chance in a real armed operation. 1979 Sino-Vietnam War, China big time failed like Russia in Ukraine.
#2, Slipstreaming foreign technology
Moreover, China is copying American aircrafts and exploited their defense cooperation with Russia by copying their patents. UK has announced they planned to take actions against former RAF pilots training Chinese Air Force for a hefty sum of money.
#3, Lack of powerful alliesChina has two rivals in East Asia, namely South Korea and Japan. China does not have anyone backing them, for example, to invade Taiwan. If there was ever such a blueprint that Russia would support China in Taiwan, then those plans are all drained down in Ukraine. India is a real dark horse in Asia with own interests, therefore no stable ally for China. Pakistan is there though.
#4, Historically non-combatant country
China never had strong intensions of going beyond the Himalayas or Siberian taiga by sheer force. China was more interested in establishing relations by influencing relations via trade only.
#5 Numbers
Just because China has the biggest army, does that automatically mean that it can converted to an 'excel sheet comparison' victory? Hardly think so. But that's right, underestimating them straightaway is also not right.

These might be the thoughts what people would emphasize, but unable to outline about China's real military strength.

[ChefPapiChulo]

did you chatgpt this?

[Opinion Owner]

Nope. I attend a military college.

[ChefPapiChulo]

Good job. Not the usual garbage people post on this site.

[Opinion Owner]

What's your stance by the way since you asked this?

[ChefPapiChulo]

I think most people don't have a clue about what they're saying. I think intelligence is always changing and plenty of people don't have a grasp of what's really going on and would rather see what they want to see.

China is a growing power and to continue to think that they aren't a threat is completely delusional. China, Russia, Iran are all strengthening ties with each other. Because they have a common enemy with the US.

We're also in a state of complacency. We don't think another World War can happen because of our military superiority. Another World War can happen and might happen if we aren't careful.

[Opinion Owner]

Russia by conventional means should be crossed out as a potential adversary. Military must be rebuild from scratch. Apart from technological disadvantage, logistics failed way too much. This is something that should not have happened to a well prepared army fit to fight!!!
Do not forget, no matter what happens, Iran's path will be always crossed by the region's another superpower, Saudi Arabia. These two are highly unlikely to be ever be in the same league in the foreseeable future.
My personal bet regarding China, historically non-fighters, even Sun Tzu's books should be considered more like military psychology unlike real tactics from Europe at any time during history. Could China finance a war for the longest period out of all? Probably yes. But wouldn't they burn money above optimal level? Probably yes too. And thinking with a trader's mindset this is a bad deal.

TLDR, 7500 years of Chinese history shows zero sign of planning to make a huge move on anyone. Even at worst, being a piggy bank for someone, but not frontline soldiers.

by the way, when modern military started 'dropping' navy, China felt like increasing expenditures in that sector, which is like litting fire with a flint on an electric stove. Anything can happen, but China winning a war as frontline soldiers with the mindset they have been practising for millennia.

[ChefPapiChulo]

Times are changing. If, like you said China is nothing more than a piggy bank, it shows some interest in world politics outside of China. Also, their spending on Navy also shows an interest in expanding their influence. What better way to gain world power than to control the seas? They’re also launching more satellites into space at a rapid rate. Their economy is also rapidly growing.

They might not even need to send troops if they can just buy everyone with their growing economy. Nonetheless, thinking that just because they’ve always acted a certain way and not considering the what ifs, is dangerous. Because you can sit here and say, they’ve never done that, they wouldn’t do that as they’re making movies; is complete lack of awareness and not rooted in reality. China is making moves, it doesn’t matter what their trend has been.

They also have a lot to prove that they are not intimidated by America and this in itself can be dangerous. This is the reason why they’re growing their navy. Even if you think it’s outdated, they have the spending power to do it and it’s a show of force. The same way the US parades the navy around the globe, which is completely unnecessary. It’s just showing off how big the US dick is.

By the time we realize how much of a threat China is, it’ll be too late to realize that China is a sleeping dragon.

[Opinion Owner]

'it doesn’t matter what their trend has been.'
Well... I have been taking Chinese courses, not an expert, but I feel I would refute only this part.
Times change, yes, but China is completely connected to ancient times in many ways. For example, Confucius is still the top of philosophy, the absolute. Not upgraded, not calibrated, not modified, just followed. Now look at European think tanks: Plato, Thomas Aquinas, Thomas Hobbes, J. J. Russeau, all were taking the works of a previous era as a springboard to correct the contradictions of previously written ones, unlike China which has stuck to the absolute written once upon a time.
Even Chinese language is connected to ancient way of thinking. For example, good is just a positive word to us, that we could define in thousands of ways, but the Chinese translation does hold way more traditional view with a predefined concept. 好 (good) = 女 (woman) + 子 (kid). Or sticking to military, the word itself rocket was 'invented' in middle ages, but Chinese stick to ancient way: 火箭 (rocket) = 火 (fire) + 箭 (arrow). And all their words are rooting in something ancient.
Chinese still do drink hot water because in ancient times, they got sick if they did not boil it first. But these days they even boil bottled mineral water if possible. Why? Just because Chinese were boiling it in ancient times.
Or just look at the dragon's body, features and shape in Western myths and in Chinese.

Applying Western mindset when trying to find a logical reason why China is doing this or that is always going to end up in failure. Even if seems like a motive from Western POV, Chinese is definitely not going to be what we think. Do not believe me? Look at why Henry Kissinger is so respected by Chinese side and what are earned their respect.

Common ground: should Chinese actions be followed by counteractions? Yes. Can our Western way of thinking originating from Age of Reason emphasizing human rationality help with understanding Chinese logic? No.

[ChefPapiChulo]

"Times change, yes, but China is completely connected to ancient times in many ways."

after the communist take over they got rid of a lot of old ways.

[ChefPapiChulo]

"Applying Western mindset when trying to find a logical reason why China is doing this or that is always going to end up in failure."

yup and i think this one thing you're overlooking.

[ChefPapiChulo]

"should Chinese actions be followed by counteractions? Yes."

wasn't suggesting we should take actions against them, if thats what you meant. I was making observations about what is going on and what I've read from experts.

[Opinion Owner]

Oh, I see... care to enlighten me then what has significantly changed in China apart from the form of state?😉

[ChefPapiChulo]

You mean the culture revolution that killed a million Chinese? that destroyed a lot of the old habits of Chinese culture?

[Opinion Owner]

How so? I try not to approach only from Western perspective... is that called overlooking?

[ChefPapiChulo]

You've been looking at it from a Western perspective the whole time, repeating Western reports and Western intelligence. and undermining China's political influence and authority.

And it is simple. They did it through a campaign called the Four Olds.

[Opinion Owner]

What old habits specifically? Did they cross out half of their characters? Did they stop drinking hot water? Did culture revolution change the social classes significantly in China? Did people start to treat each other differently? Did the power of the president / party secretariat significantly changed from the emperor's?

The only significant changes were the adoption and implementation of Soviet-type administration, but the society has not changed at all irl

[ChefPapiChulo]

I mean you can think that. I'm not an expert on the subject, but you clearly are. I'm sure you understand everything completely. Ignore the thing I said about the Four Olds, that's rubbish.

[Opinion Owner]

Oh, you speak Chinese at advanced level and read Chinese reports, right?

[ChefPapiChulo]

Do you have a point?

[Opinion Owner]

In case a person speaks zero Chinese OR not familiar with Chinese customs OR never lived in China at all, could take exactly 0% towards understanding Chinese logic. Cultural understanding requires more than lexical knowledge of certain topics regarding segments of a country's history

[ChefPapiChulo]

Hey, I already said you're the expert. You can read and speak advanced Chinese. Don't have to prove yourself anymore.

[Opinion Owner]

Ah, no worries... I was just interested in how you see China. But seriously, many things are not like as presented in Western media. Notable example: prosecution of religion. Muslims can go to mosques, just better not to go more than once or twice a week. Christians? Well... all churches are completely closed.. except for foreigner's district churches in Beijing and Shanghai

[ChefPapiChulo]

I think you’re confused.

[Opinion Owner]

With what? lol

[ChefPapiChulo]

You’re just in a state of confusion.

[ChefPapiChulo]

Do I really have explain to you what a state of confusion means?

[Opinion Owner]

You mean I'm confused with...
a, china in general
b, chinese society
c, prosecution of religion in china
d, other

[ChefPapiChulo]

Confused on everything.

[jahaims]

I think you mean China's military. Army is a branch of the military. They haven't been to war with a modern military so their capabilities aren't as well known. They have 1/3 the budget of the U. S. A. military so if you are making comparisons they are less impressive in that aspect. They have a large population and military but do not have the logistics to transport troops and supplies in mass. Having a large military population would be pointless if you can't move troops and supplies other than in the circumstance of defending their homeland. That being said China is the last country I would want to be in a military conflict with.

[molonski2]

China already rules the world , this power will only increase as they slowly and meticulously enforce their world agenda , the likes of USA will be insignificant.

[jshm2]

Because China's military has very little experience.

Look at the USA and USSR losing in Afghanistan.

It was nothing to do with numbers, or technology.