Melanie Martinez Accused of Rape!

[LittleSally]

Melanie's former friend Timothy Heller accused Melanie of raping her.

Timothy said she never meant to reveal who did it, but she realized it's time to be upfront and just say it, so she Tweeted this:

She released this story before, but now she's saying who the culprit was - Melanie.

Melanie, in turn, responded with saying it was a difficult time in both their lives, they were both trying to make it in the industry and she never said 'no', so she was convinced it was consensual:

What do you think?

Creepy and authentic?

Or something else?

[Coconut_Man]

I think Melanie is guilty. Lets think about this logically.
1) Timothy posted about this encounter a while back without naming the culprit. Melanie would have obviously seen the post and know that it was her Timothy was speaking about. If Melanie was innocent, she would have immediately contacted Timothy (privately) to clarify whatever "misunderstanding " she may have had about the sexual encounter. But she didn't.
2) If someone publicly accuses you of rape and you're innocent, your defence isn't gonna be "She never said no to what we choose to do"...
You are going to come out guns blazing. Well at least I would. If that were to happen to me, I'm giving every single detail of what happened to prove the act was consensual. So if she said "yes fuck me baby" 11 times or " oh that feels so good don't stop " 9 times , or she undressed me and guided my penis inside her etc... I'm going to mention that in my Public Statement to clear my name.

Honestly , her weak denial is making me lean to the side of guilt.

[lumos]

This. It's not even denial really, she just carefully chose her words to make it seem like they were both into it and Timothy gave consent. But anyone capable of critical thinking knows that saying "she didn't say no to what we chose to do" is basically her saying "ok well Timothy didn't say yes and after I nagged to her about it for 2 nights straight she finally gave up... but I thought that was ok". Clearly not ok.

[Coconut_Man]

Thank you for MHO

[Kiki98]

I feel like there is another side to this story, it's all very cryptic and mysterious

[silverqueen]

Exactly what I'm thinking

[lumos]

I'm thinking Melanie is guilty, even though it's hard to say in a type of situation like this where it's one word against the other, and nobody else has come forward to accuse Melanie of doing something similar (I think when many people step forward with similar stories, there's a clear pattern). The reason why is simply by looking at what they both said.

1. Timothy mentioned multiple times in her statement that she kept saying no for 2 nights straight. How Melanie could respond with "she never said no" is beyond me. Even if Timothy is lying about saying no, I just don't get how Melanie couldn't address the fact that Timothy repeatedly stated that she said no. By saying "she never said no", it just makes Melanie seem like she didn't even read what Timothy had written. Like I just can't understand how that's your counter-argument when the other person clearly said no multiple times.

2. Another thing bothers me about the "she never said no" argument is that not saying no isn't the same thing as saying yes. Silence =/= yes. A yes is a yes. The lack of a no isn't an automatic yes. Compare it to a salesperson who tries to sell you something in a store. They really want you to buy this fancy bag. You're standing there in silence for a moment, wondering if you should do it or not, when the salesperson suddenly grabs your credit card and says "great! Thanks for buying the bag".

3. The "she never said no" comment therefore negates her saying "what we chose to do together". It's like an oxymoron. Timothy didn't say yes, so how exactly did they then choose to do it "together"?

4. Timothy was under the influence of drugs + exhausted. I don't think she was in a position where she could have given consent. Not to mention that she had kept saying no for 2 nights straight. Melanie should have gotten the hint after the second no.

Ultimately none of us will know exactly what happened that night since none of us were there. But going purely by what both of them said in their statements, Melanie seems to have crossed a line and what she said in her own statement even points to that.

[JustAnotherGirlie]

I mean. I’m not taking Melanie’s side on this because I believe her accuser BUT. People are throwing Melanie under the bus for her response as if any response to sexual assault is going to be stellar? I don’t get it. She probably doesn’t want to cause more drama by being messy and accusing the accuser.
Think about it. Everyone who has been accused has released a statement denying action but I think it’s better to take your feelings out of it. It’s a PR move to do damage control on a very volatile situation.
That said, damn Timothy. I feel bad for her

[MissMcK]

I am more inclined to believe Timothy, her post was so descriptive, emotional and just felt genuine, unlike Melanie's reply which lacked any emotion and basically admitted it happened I was a huge Melanie fan so I am disgusted that she would behave like this.

[BrittBratt2416]

Who the hell names there daughter Timothy? That's not even a unisex name. Anyway... how convenient that you now decided to speak up right when all these other sexual harassment stories are just flying out. If she's a friend I would put her on blast long time ago if a friend did that to me.

[Papavera]

Yeah, looks the same to me. Honestly sounds like a nice kickstart to her career.

[madhatters4]

hard to say really. this is a matter of he said she said... or she said she said

but the fact that the "victim" mentioned it previously without mentioning in particular would suggest that it isn't your run of the mill attempt to extort or shame someone... or it could be part of a long con

[hasrett]

I'm strongly against any type of abuse, but I'm always cautious with this type of accusations.

I just want to say if people can be revolting enough to rape someone, they can be revolting enough to wrongly accuse someone of rape.
I'm usually on the victim's side, but to be honest, this had really convenient timing.

Now I feel like I betrayed something.

[LogicBomber]

Interesting that when a male is accused of rape he loses his job instantly and no real questions are asked. But when a female is accused she is given a voice and the accusation is questioned, excused, or debated.

[hasrett]

Yes well it's not really the same when you're accused by bunch of random people and your best friend...

[LogicBomber]

@hasrett Not all the men accused have been accused by multiple women. For example, Porn star Stoya simply posted a statement on Twitter about her husband (porn star James Deen) "raping" her and the femindiots went nuts trying to lynch him and destroy his career.

Many of the men accused have been accused by some bloated overgeneralization of the basic human interaction of males forward attempts at sexual interest. Women love sitting in their protective bubble where they use their sexuality to get male attention and wait for males to take interest then pick and choose who they are ok with and demonize those who they aren't.

I can't imagine how freeing it is to have 100% perverse freedom and then destroy anyone who I don't like for taking interest in me. That high horse is beyond reproach.

[hasrett]

Well, @LogicBomber, just read my comment below.

And, I don't know what type of women have you met, but most girls I know don't 'demonize' anyone. :'D

[LittleSally]

*Since when? Trump being a prime example...

[LogicBomber]

@hasrett If you don't know of any female who demonizes men, you haven't ever met a single feminist or seen any western media.

@LittleSally Trump being a prime example of what? Of a one-off blame diversion.
I could point out Jenny McCarthy molesting underage Justin Bieber on stage as a one off example as well, that doesn't mean shit compared to the bigger picture.

[hasrett]

Well you're also focusing on one part instead of the whole picture.
Just because there's a raging group of woman out there nowadays doesn't mean you should put all women in the same cathegory.

[LogicBomber]

@hasrett What category am I putting all women in? The protected privileged group that is western females... because that is accurate.

[hasrett]

It's pointless to discuss with you.

[LogicBomber]

@hasrett Yes, logic is hard to debate.

[lumos]

What stone have you been living under? Or are you simply cherry picking the response you've seen? Because so far I don't think this case is being treated any differently than any other case. I've seen so many ex fans of Melanie showing their disgust by throwing away her merch and CDs, deleting her songs off of their phones and computers, and tweeting the hashtag #MelanieMartinezIsOverParty. Likewise I've seen people defend her and say that none of us knows the full story and that we can't call her guilty. In any other case I've seen similar reactions. People either defending the accused by saying that they shouldn't lose their jobs or by calling the accusers "fame-hungry sluts and whores who are looking for their 15 minutes in the spotlight", or people grabbing their torches and pitchforks to get the accused off the face of the earth.
Every. Single. Sexual abuse/assault. Story. Has. Both. Of. These. Sides. This incident with Melanie Martinez is not any different.

[LittleSally]

*You've really chosen your name on here ironically... Haha

[LogicBomber]

@lumos Since the majority of the males accused have lost their livelihood due simply to the "Allegation" and NOT any actual proof, the statement of it going both ways is mute. This witch hunt and lynch mob of female "victims" who are coming out of nowhere after decades of silence claiming things as basic as "unwanted touching" which could be ANYTHING. Women are not being held to this same standard. Jenny McCarthy should be losing her job for molesting Justin Beiber on stage in front of hundreds of people. She ISN'T. It is "funny".

@LittleSally Just because you fail to accept logic, doesn't make it untrue. But nice try with the shaming tactic.

[JSmuve]

Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait... isn't Timothy a dude's name? What's going on here?

[txdiie_]

same XD

[hasrett]

It usually is, but that's not the point of the story. :P

[JSmuve]

@hasrett but its the part that grabbed my attention the most ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[8string]

jesus Christ if its not a "NO" or obvious violent sexual assault its not rape whats with all this ridiculous grey area.

[Jayson101]

Academia. They spend years learning about the 'grey area' and they have nothing to do with their lives but 'deconstruct' what happens to them. Academic jargon for "I need to see this as rape now because that's what the most important thing in life is according to my shallow school courses"

[8string]

@Jayson101 yeah that goes for both genders. all 2 of them.

[coralee]

Completely disagree. The only way to get consent is an ethusiastic yes, silence does not equal a yes. People have different reactions to these types of things its a natural phenomeon know as the flight, fight, or freeze response and it's prevelant in all animals. If you aren't mature enough to be checking in with your partner you aren't mature enough to be having sex. I've never had a partner not check and I have never not checked. It only ruins the mood if your a teenager.

[Jayson101]

@coralee You are actually being cruel by being that delicate.

[coralee]

@Jayson101 It has nothing to do with being delicate. It's a legitmate biological phenomenon. Again if you aren't mature enough to check in with your partner you shouldn't be having sex. It really isn't that hard.

[8string]

@coralee um yeah duh if you check in and they don't say "NO", its not a rape.

[coralee]

Sure but you have to check in. You have to get that consent and far too many people think it's implied. Only yes means yes.

[Jayson101]

@coralee You are just a nasty entitled brat who didn;t get disciplined enough as a child. Men aren;t there to serve you and you can;t just give them criminal convictions and ruin their lives when they fail to meet your expectations. People have their own lives and live independently from YOU and because you haven't realized that by now, you never will. You are just a bitch

[coralee]

@Jayson101 I'm the spoiled entitled brat? That's rich. A lack of a no is not consent. Yes is consent, please is consent, harder is consent. All you have to do is ask for consent it isn't that hard. I've never levelled a complaint against any man I've been with because they have all been mature adults. In fact I've had partners that I check in on because it isn't only the man who has to be weary of these things.

[Jayson101]

@coralee EVERYONE experiences things they don;t want to. It;s a rough world. You can;t throw people in prison for slightly falling short of your requirements. They can;t be punished for not being your little bitch. Just because some one doesn't perform sex how you want it, does not mean they forced you to have sex. You can;t just screw people over all the time and think it;s okay because you see yourself as the centre of the universe with a disregard for anyone else

[coralee]

@Jayson101 Yes because asking for consent is so difficult and it doesn't matter if you hurt other people. It is clearly more important that you get to orgams with as little inconveince as possible then someone's right to bodily autonomy. And I think I'm the center of the universe? The lady doth protest to much, methinks.

[Jayson101]

@coralee Listen. RAPE is a crime where a guy FORCES a woman to have sex with him! Often at knifepoint, often at gunpoint, often with physical FORCE. If you accuse a guy of rape when he has NOT committed rape, you are a criminal. NO the world does not revolve around you.

Fabricating stories about getting raped is NOT virtuous, even if academics are making it out to be nowadays

[coralee]

@Jayson101 No sweetie rape is sex without consent. If you don't have consent it is rape plain and simple.

[Jayson101]

@coralee In that case the onus is on the female to communicate consent or not. Not to deliberately leave the male confused so that she can stir up drama if she wants at any given time

[coralee]

@Jayson101 The person initiating sex is the one who has to ask for consent be they male or female.

[Jayson101]

@coralee They don't have to verbally ask for sex if the female starts participating in sex. ANd don;t give me that shit 'whether it be MALE or FEMALE'. As if you care abiut victims and perpetrators 'regardless of gender' . I can see through that fakery.

I have had women initiate sex against my will. Many guys have. Do you think I threw them in jail? No cause they're women and I'm a guy. Arrogant toad

[coralee]

@Jayson101 If she initiated sex and you said no and she continued then you would have had every right to prosecute them and I would stand by you 100 percent. I really don't care what you think of me your an overgrown child who isn't capable of seeing past his own nose. No verbal consent is not required but if you start having sex with someone and they aren't moving or responding to you at all, then maybe it's time to check in. It takes literally two seconds and is something any half way decent person would do regardless of their fear of rape accusations.

[Jayson101]

@coralee Why do you expect everyone to baby you and pamper you? People are not designed solely to satisfy you. If two people are having consensual sex, neither has the right to lodge an accusation. ONLY if one of them made it declared they did not want to have sex. Don't you understand? Nobody actually cares about you, or anyone for that matter. People are living their own lives. They are not obligated to serve you in ANY WAY. The law is to prevent an actual attack and violent threat to someone. A violent act of thievery of sex against someone's desire. It is NOT there to refine the quality of a sexual experience provided for women. It is NOT there to make sex better for women that's retarded. Men are not your slaves

You do NOT care about men, I know you don't , you have proven it, I don't believe you.

[lumos]

Except that Timothy said several times in her statement that she KEPT SAYING NO FOR TWO NIGHTS STRAIGHT. Also rape isn't always violent. Force isn't always needed in order to rape someone. If the other person is in shock/unconscious, you really don't have to use any force or violence at all. Don't even call it a "gray area", if you're too stupid to realize that no = no or that silence =/= yes, you shouldn't even be having sex in the first place.

[Jayson101]

@lumos You shouldn't be having sex cause no one can trust you to take account for your own actions without enlisting the force of authorities to pick up the pieces of every bad decision you make.

Someone ought to make a false accusation against you and spread you SEXUAL PREDATOR and RAPIST past across the entire media just to prove how easy it is to fuck someone over with no evidence.

[lumos]

@Jayson101 lol

[8string]

@coralee If one person initiates and the other person just goes with it. it is NOT RAPE

[coralee]

What part of asks for consent do you not get? Yes, if one person initiates sex and the other person consents to sex either through verbal consent or by engaging in the behaviour as well. But if the secondary partner is not responding then you do have to go the extra mile and get that consent verbally.

[8string]

@coralee asking is the biggest turn off ever. if theyre not responding then its not even gonna happen because that's the second biggest turn off ever

[coralee]

If asking is a turn off you need to sort out your priorites. No woman has ever called off sex because a guy asked if she was alright. Saying it ruins the moment is the biggest cop-out ever.

"if theyre not responding then its not even gonna happen because that's the second biggest turn off ever"
I agree I want my partner to enjoy what we are doing as much as I do, but there are a large number of rape cases that do follow that storyline. One partner initiates contact the other freezes for any number of reasons (maybe they've been violently sexually assualted in the past, maybe their new to sex and are scared) and the first partner continues because well they didn't say no.

[8string]

@coralee If they don't say no that's their fault. "oh it takes two seconds to ask"
It take one second to just say stop.

[coralee]

You don't know what their past is like they could have been in scary situations in the past where saying no could have gotten them hurt or worse hence the freeze response. Even taking rape allegations out of the equasion as a compassionate human being who doesn't want to hurt other people you should be checking. If this is really that big of an issue for you maybe you should let your partners do all the initiating.

[8string]

@coralee id never get laid and neither would anyone else.

no one knows what happened to anyone in the past. that doesn't matter.
My house got broken into and I got shot at, now obviously you can't just go around not-reporting violent crime, but If I had just left the door wide open for someone to walk in without even pulling a gun out and didn't say stop, then waited a year to report it to police, it wouldn't be a ROBBERY on paper. The point is people go to jail over this shit.

Did getting smacked with a pistol suck? Yes. Should THEY have gone to jail? yes. Did it ruin my life? No. but the point is I didn't sit on my ass and let it happen.

[coralee]

Not a good comparison buddy and you know it. But, I'm tired of wasting my time trying to convince a bunch of grown men how to use basic common curtosey. I will continue being thankful for the amazing men in my life who don't get squeemish about asking and still get laid.

[Jayson101]

@coralee You are not a courteous person clearly. You are a cruel and insidious and selfish person who was raised a spoilt brat and wants to throw people in jail like some kind of antisocial tyrant.

[azzntittiz]

So confused right now. I hope no one ever say I raped them, well they are the ones who usually throw themselves at me, so don't come out against me bitches I am tiny and cute, everyone will know you're lying.

[Jayson101]

It's getting OBSCENE! I have had random people call me up that I have never met accusing me of shit. and then accusing me of stalking them! It's very upsetting all the women out their doing this cause they are taught it's a really 'important' and 'brave' to fabricate stories.

[fmnst]

i always get a lot of hate when i say this in these cases, but that shouldn't be considered rape (in before, not because she's a woman)

[fmnst]

also, i'm not her fan or anything

[dolemite68]

Bout time someone spoke out on women being the abusers sometimes

[PatKirby]

An important point you make here. This is reflective of what's been happening lately regarding female rapists. Consider the many, many women on the 'Big List' of the Most Comprehensive Account on Internet of Women Predators on Campus by googling

"The big list: Female teachers with students"

(shocking - you've been warned)

[Jayson101]

We don;t even know if she was

[Allie_Oops]

This sounds like horse shit... Who calls their rapist their best friend? Are you serious? Sorry, I feel like there's another side to this.

[Jayson101]

Thankyou

[hasrett]

Same.

[Trumpster666]

Who goes to an award show with their Rapists as many of Weinstein's victims have.

[Trumpster666]

Melanie seems to have admitted to the rape so the next logical step is a police investigation. It's time we all realised that women van committ rape too.

[txdiie_]

i love melanie. i've listened to her whole album. i know every song, every ryhtm, every beat and every lyric :p so do a lot of teenage girls. or just almost teens. she is not being a role model if ths actually happened.

[Bandit74]

I know this isn't a popular viewpoint, but after hearing her description of events I wouldn't consider that rape. To me it sounded more like poor communication.

[lumos]

Tmothy never gave consent, in fact she said no for two nights in a row. Just because she gave up since she was too tired and high to keep fighting about it, it doesn't make the situation less rape-y. I. e. she was raped. Giving up on saying no =/= yes.

[Bandit74]

@lumos
Saying no for two nights doesn't mean that someone can't change their mind and consent on the third night.

A lack of a "no" doesn't necessarily mean yes, but a lack of a "yes" doesn't necessarily mean no either.

[lumos]

Obviously someone can change their mind but does that mean it’s ok to keep pressuring them until they do? No. That would be coercion. In the same way the police can’t try to pressure/coerce someone into confessing to something they didn’t do, likewise is it wrong to pressure or nag someone to the point where they’re too exhausted to keep saying no all the time. And although silence doesn’t automatically mean a ”no” either, wouldn’t it be a hell of a lot smarter to just leave it be? If the other person keeps saying no/stays silent/doesn’t even hint at wanting it? Common sense would dictate that you back off, but I guess common sense apparently flies out the window when someone is horny 🙄

[bubble_tea]

Girls with the mindset of Harvey Weinstein exist. I've met such a girl. I would hate to be her best friend.

[pervertedjester]

I have no idea who these people are but if a simple apology worked humanity wouldn't have made up the legal system.

[LeoLionEye]

I have no idea who either one of them is. So can't say I really care either way. For all I know they are both just looking for attention and this seems like a good way to get that now days.

[Guanfei]

How will modern feminists react to this? i'm curious to see how they will accuse the white males for it.

[PhoenixItalian]

probably rape culture and normalization of sexual violence, and that we're all guilty since we're not all feminists. Let the Marxism disguised as justice commence. lol

[coralee]

Modern feminist here who is under no delusions that women aren't capable of violence. Most feminists aren't, shocker most of us even support groups that give support to male victims of female perpetrators.

[PhoenixItalian]

@coralee it's not a shocker that feminism claims to support men, except for men's rights groups and discussions of such as can be seen by protests and pulling fire alarms at conferences. Actions speak louder than words

[lumos]

Another "modern feminist" here... I'm disgusted by what Melanie did and her "apology" is nothing but her choosing her words carefully to make it seem like Timothy somehow gave her consent. You'd have to be completely out of touch/incredibly delusional to be able to somehow blame a white male for this? Lol

[Guanfei]

@lumos You'd be surprised. There isn't one day without any complain about how white males and their rape culture turn everything bad. But that's how it is today. I think you're not one of those modern feminists (you know, the ones we call feminazis), because they are completly insane and hating men to a point they say everything is their fault.

[PhoenixItalian]

@lumos are most societal problems not blamed on white men in accordance with gender studies? I understand that this is a personal situation and doesn't not directly correlate with a societal problem but would this not be a result of rape culture according to modern feminism?

[lumos]

@PhoenixItalian rape culture isn't blamed on white men since anyone can rape.

[PhoenixItalian]

@lumos Is rape culture a construct of the patriarchy?

[coralee]

@PhoenixItalian No rape culture in my opinion actually has very little to do with the patriarchy. Rape culture is based first and foremost in fear in my opinion. People want to believe that bad things don't happen to good people, so they try to rationalize what the victim did wrong. If rape only happens to people who do x, y or z. Then my loved ones and I are "safe" if we don't do x, y or z. Almost every time a woman is raped the question of what was she wearing comes up. Or was she drinking, or was she flirting and numerous other situations that put the onus on the victim. But that fact of the matter is anyone wearing or doing anything can be a victim. We also all still have the rapist hiding in the bushes mentality despite the fact that we know most victims know their attackers. We also tend to turn rapists into movie monsters, because that's easier then facing the fact that your friendly neighbour down the street could be harboruing those same tendencies.

[lumos]

@coralee I agree 100%.

[PhoenixItalian]

@coralee agreed, but that's not exactly feminist or gender studies theory, that's just a recognition of what is statistically true. When feminist say we need to teach men not to rape, it's addresses rape as a distinctly male problem, which is a uniquely feminist construct even if you disagree with that as we both know that rape is not exclusive to male perpetrators.

[coralee]

@PhoenixItalian Feminist theory is a lot more diverse then people care to admit. We aren't a monolith we span a wide variety of opinions and theory.

[PhoenixItalian]

@coralee do you think a lack of criticism of the fanatics detracts from the notion of ideological diversity?

[coralee]

@PhoenixItalian There are fanatics in every single movement and acting like that's a uniquely feminist problem is ridiculous, and niave. The people who want normal feminists to apologize for the movements fanatics are the same people complaining that their getting blamed for all the racism in the past. You can't have it both ways. If you don't believe you should be treated as a monlith for your gender, your race, sexuality and or your political affiliation then you can't expect feminists to accept that either.

[PhoenixItalian]

@coralee where do you draw the line though? what separates ideologically a moderate or reasonable feminist from one who is brainwashed or extreme? what do you consider taking it to far in other words?

[coralee]

@PhoenixItalian The same place you draw the line in other movements that take fanatical leanings. When it draws away from the original purpose, when it becomes about hatred rather then making the world a better place, or when violence is involved. Again this isn't a uniquely feminist problem. There are radical conservatives, radical liberal, radical Christians, you name it someone is taking it too far. And their is critiscim of radical feminism from inside the movement if you can't find anything you obviously haven't bothered to look.