Does the Russian military's poor performance in Ukraine show how badly NATO would spank them in a conventional war?

[Anonymous]

Updates

+1 y

Russian aircraft can't operate over Ukraine airspace and their tank forces are getting wiped out. Biden has provided 10 javelin missles fof every 1 Russian tank.

[ChrisMaster69]

Yes it does, when you realise they are crowd funding radios and other kit for their troops. https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1607572/Russia-State-Media-TV-Vladimir-Putin-weapons-supplies-shortage-vn

they have pulled T-62 tanks out of their reserve.

They have lost a huge number of senior officers due to them not being trained in squad tactics etc.

it is as always has been the case, the Russians fall back in artillery.
even that could be potentially short lived as the counter battery systems that work with MRLS, will likely start taking out Russian self propelled guns and heavy artillery, as well as their command areas that do not have secure radios.

The next two months as systems start coming into play will be interesting.

i would expect some more attacks against Russian warships once harpoon is deployed

they have also had to rethink a sea landing as due to Brimstone etc, they would be decimated.

If their army had been trained to operate at squad level, they would be doing better, you can see how their other troops such as Wagner and Chechens are doing better than Russian soldiers, mainly down to ability to operate under senior non commissioned officers, where as Russians have colonels and above in charge in same positions.

[Asker]

Of course it doesn't help that us military intelligence in real time is reading their communications, observing their postions and movements, identifying key military targets and passing all this on to the Ukrainians.

[ChrisMaster69]

US and others
There is a good bit more to it than just the US.

[DryGermanGuy]

The Sun's YouTube channel (iirc) even has the first videos of T-62 attacked with modern anti-tank weapons. These poor Russian fools driving them don't have much of a chance.

[Asker]

@DryGermanGuy against a Nato country you'd never get the chance to point a javelin missle at Abrams, challenger or Leopard tank, they'd spot you or a drone or apache would.

[ChrisMaster69]

It greatly depends who is attacking the tank.

Also a weapon like Brimstone rips up tanks

The next evolution is going to be unmanned boxes deployed with squads

Why get javelin close when a brimstone attack from 10km can fire off 10 missiles and take out 10 tanks.

[Asker]

The javelin is basically a cheap infantry weapon. The brimstone is a weapon that can virtually be fired from any air or ground weapon system, its just very very effective against Russian tanks.
I think we are kinda at a stage similar to the 30s b4 ww2 where there was a lot of new technology and lots of ideas about how the next war was going to be fought.
In a modern conventional war you may not even get launching advanced missles like brimstone if the opposition has already spotted it via satellite and confirmed through intelligence and maybe hit by cruise missile carried by a 747 far off the battlefield. What happens to drones when satellites are shot down? Or Electronic jamming? Use of lasers? Rail guns? The whole concept of the digital battlefield. Stealth technology? New tank designs? 6th gen fighter aircraft? Drone Armoured vehicles? On and on.

[ChrisMaster69]

Erm drones don’t need satellites, yes Reaper uses them, however it’s basically flight sim model software when not using sat comms.

The beauty of a number of smart weapons is they can literally be shoved in a packing crate, anything that can hold the missiles.

Javelin is not cheap

This is why next generation light anti-tank weapons (Nlaw) exist and also why SwitchBlade is being provided.

I kinda did this stuff for a living and know the tech.

The likes of Brimstone was always seen as a great equaliser against various Russian Shock Armies / Guards units.

[DryGermanGuy]

It's certainly an indication but would ultimately depend on the theater / tactical setting. I guess what was surprising to learn was the high level of corruption in Russia's army. I have read stories of unit commanders selling their allotted fuel intended for training maneuvers on the black market.

[Adaeva]

I guess ignorance is bliss because obviously you believe they lying media when the facts are the opposite.

[Asker]

The lying media has and would have us believe that Russia is a threat.

[Adaeva]

No doubt about that

[strateguy632]

The facts @Adaeva are russian army failed to capture ukraine capital city. Russia is losing many soldiers and tanks so Russia is getting whipped.

[purplepoppy]

It suggests mushrooms would pop up sooner rather than later

[Soteris]

Russia is actually very weak and I am not talking about the poor performance during the Ukraine war. They simply dont have the manpower or the economy to even be a credible threat to NATO. The only thing they have that is even worth noting is their nukes and even that is questionable since most of them are probably inoperable thanks to poor maintenance.

[Avicenna]

Russia hasn't used anywhere near their full arsenal, and although it's difficult to get accurate info about what's gone on in the war, their performance in Ukraine has clearly been subpar.

NATO countries would be operating on their own turf in a conventional war and would certainly win.

[strateguy632]

But russia can't do that because russia got whipped. The fact russian are too scared to send warplanes proved russians are powerless.

[normalice]

Yes and no. They would definitely get spanked, and hard, in a conventional war. But they are such insecure whiners that there is a 50/50 chance they'd launch nukes at everone out of spite. Keep in mind that Russia is really just a state run oil company. They are cold Texas, and Texas oil barons would easily nuke someone who threatened to stop giving them money.

[Avicenna]

DNC propaganda hasn't aged well...

[normalice]

Is there some counter narrative already circulating the the far right fake news?

[Avicenna]

The bizarre idea of some "far right fake news" is a figment of your deranged imagination (or maybe you plagiarized that from one of those far-left organizations that are used to leak leftist fake news).

When you paraphrase a former Obama administration official without attribution in a way that is now known isn't even accurate, it's bound to be noticed.

You really need to see a therapist that won't feed your bizarre fantasies.

[normalice]

I mean, you hear yourself, right? You could tell me you're broadcasting from a bunker with a tinfoil hat and I wouldn't even doubt. Far right disinformation has made you insane. I'm sorry that happened to you but sadly it seems you are bot sorry..

[Snsl153]

NATO is clearly already involved in this war, and has been from the very beginning, so your question isn't hypothetical.

[KelleyNice]

You are just another person that believe our lying media.

[strateguy632]

The fact Russia is not risking its warplanes showed the media isn't lying about this. Russia is getting whipped. It conquered land at a crazy cost.

[Pterodon]

Definitely bot not with Biden in charge

[WhitneySnow]

Yeah maybe. But they have nukes.

[strateguy632]

Russian nukes are only as a reply. Never to use for attack.

[Anonymous]

Russia is winning though, isn't it?

[Asker]

Define winning. Seems any victory will be a phyric one.

[Opinion Owner]

Well, they are taking ground, that is usually a good thing.

It may well be phyric, but so far as I can see Russia doesn't want this war, this is happening because of the west.

This has all been going on for a very long time, it turned hot recently but it isn't something that just happened.

[DryGermanGuy]

What is wrong with you? Russia (as in Putin) wanted this war and he got it. He even announced it in writing years ago that his big goal was the reversal of Perestroika and the collapse of the Soviet Union. That's why is is denying the existence of Ukrainian culture, people and country.

[Opinion Owner]

@DryGermanGuy So why did he wait 20 years?

[Asker]

"Russia doesn't want this war, this is happening because of the west" you are correct op. Russia walked into the trap, even if they win they lose.
They are taking ground yes but at great cost when In reality they are really struggling, against a minor power like Ukraine on their boarder the war should have been over in a month. If you compare the gulf war and invasion to Iraq you realise how weak Russia actually is. Seems emperor Putin has no clothes.

[DryGermanGuy]

Uhm... he didn't? He was propping up pro-Russian politicians and oligarchs for years, when he lost that grip he increased his veiled threats to dissuade EU/NATO, after that he annexed the Crimean peninsula, then he sent mercenaries into the Eastern territories to sow civil war and mayhem and ultimately he attacked the whole country to overthrow the government.

[Asker]

@DryGermanGuy the EU and Nato have been encroaching on Russian boarders for years.

[Opinion Owner]

@DryGermanGuy So, I actually made a mistake which i thought you were going to pick up on but haven't.

He only came into office in 2012 apparently, I thought it was earlier than that but whatever.

Look, Im not saying that Putin is a some innocent little snowflake who wouldn't hurt a fly but the US has been interfering in the region every bit as much as Russia has, it has also been actively and publically trying to cause harm to the Russian economy for decades.

So this isn't Putin's creation.

If you look at the recent history of the world with regard to conflict in areas rich in oil you will find that West has got plenty of blood on its hands.

Do you know what the difference between Iraq and Ukraine is?

Ukraine really does have WMD's, though sadly it doesn't have the nukes which it gave up to Russia having been assurances by Russia, the UK and the States but obviously we are all full of shit.

The Western world is run by a fucking mafia, that is the real enemy of the world.

Have you ever listened to Putin speak? He has been saying for years how he keeps extending a hand of friendship to the west and we aren't interested, we just keep building military bases closer and closer to the Russian border, and fly jets around their air space every day while fucking their economy.

We are the aggressors here.

[Asker]

It's a cold world. Russia is the regional power. The US mean to basically take over that role.

[strateguy632]

Correct.