Another mass shooting. This time in Atlanta, and just after the mass shooting in Texas. How can anyone say that what is currently happening works?

[MrShaun]

It doesn't! I get there are people who hate the idea of giving up their guns, but this cannot continue.

Strengthen our prisons, allowing us to pass legislation that can be rightfully enforced!

Allowing the general public to own firearms isn't stopping this!

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

I agree this is bad, but all law abiding public citizens giving up their guns will cause a huge amount of crime and death, emboldening criminals to prey on the helpless. It’s already bad enough that good people use guns to protect themselves by wounding/killing violent criminals. You want to take away the ability for good weak people to defend themselves from many stronger bad people?
Countries like Brazil has some of the strictest gun laws in the world but has a ton of gun violence.
When Britain banned guns gun crime actually WENT UP!
But Switzerland has a huge amount of gun owners and yet no mass shootings.
It’s a misconception that Japan doesn’t allow guns. They do for hunting. And yet their murder rate is low as well.
These few huge examples alone debunk the anti-gun debate in America.
THE MAIN PROBLEM ISN’T THE GUNS! It’s only the part of the problem you think you can eliminate as inanimate objects.
In this violent primitive world guns save lives and take lives, but wether the shooter is good or bad goes back and forth with every incident.
You’re letting the media (and government) manipulate you emotionally and therefore politically int what they want you to think. The solution is a device that is safer and more reliable in incapacitating people. You might think “what about tasers?” No, tasers often have no effect or will kill some people. I won’t even champion keeping guns as the solution (in the long run) because guns have the same problem. We need something less lethal than guns yet more reliable in incapacitation.
What we need are Star Trek phasers to replace bullet guns. It works every time, it never does what you don’t want it to do, it’s accurate, only lethal if you set it to lethal.
But it’s EXTREMELY important that we do not get rid of guns from public hands before something like phasers are invented and mass produced for the public to buy. Banning guns before this means corrupt government and criminals will have absolute power over you like they do in third world countries, some of which we know banned guns.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

Oh yes and, banning guns won’t stop mass shootings. It may stop a few potential shootings at the cost of making everything else apocalyptically worse. The whole country will be more of a mass shooting than it already is. Nobody is talking about actual solutions, just bipartisan decisions keeping us down as a civilization.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

I would like guns to become a thing of the past but we are not at that point yet, and if we want to get to that point we should not ban guns!

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

Both sides of the gun debate are both right and wrong. We need something that is only correct.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

Stabbings also went up in Britain.

[TheIrishWolf]

It's the polices job to defend its citizens with brutal force.

Criminals will always have guns.

It's better if criminals shoot other criminals instead of sociopathic children getting mammys and daddy's guns and killing all their classmates. Those children didn't have a chance or a choice, criminals do. And that's the difference.

"UK gun crime went up". I f that's true, how many were mass shootings or children or whatever? Probably fuck all. Its criminals fighting criminals by choice, unlike vulnerable children.

you're defending your liberty of guns, but what about groups of children's liberty to live life? Wheres their choice? They don't have one. They're dead...

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

You clearly haven’t looked at enough stories of good people with guns who stopped would-be mass shooters and criminals in general. That means we actually need more guns. Maybe if there were more good people with guns the kids would have been saved, which is what happens more often than it sounds like you know.
And don’t get me started on police.

[qwert1234]

Come on...

Switzerland:
impakter.com/.../

UK:
www.npr.org/.../school-shooting-dunblane-massacre-uvalde-texas-gun-control

Japan:
www.indiatoday.in/.../tokyo-zero-tolerance-gun-laws-former-pm-shinzo-abe-gun-laws-uk-us-canda-india-1973447-2022-07-08

edition.cnn.com/.../index.html

Even US Dept of Justice calls Japan's gun control "Oppressive" LOL
www.ojp.gov/.../japanese-gun-control-laws-are-oppressive-gun-control-p-252-259-1992

Other than the police and the military, no one in Japan may purchase a handgun or a rifle. Hunters and target shooters may possess shotguns and airguns under strictly circumscribed conditions. The police check gun licensees' ammunition inventory to make sure there are no shells or pellets unaccounted for.

Shotgun and Airgun only. And they do inventory for ammo.
Is the US willing to do this?

Doubt.

You want guns, because you want guns. Not because of this protection thing.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

Aw, you’re right. I’ll just disarm myself because shooting them is really mean to anybody who breaks into my house. Maybe I’ll make it fair with a knife fight, unless the intruder has a gun.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

@qwert1234 you just don’t like guns because the mainstream media told you to. Keep obeying them if you want.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

Your links actually prove my point that guns are not the problem.

[Twalli]

And for every story of a good person with a h8un there are hundreds of stories of bad people getting guns when they really shouldn't have in the first place. All survivors of gun violence want severe restrictions on guns if not just outlawing them completely. Maybe we should listen to them.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

@Twalli You realize criminals don’t obey the law, right? Outlawing guns will hardly affect the black market. We’ll go from good and bad outcomes to just a lot more bad outcomes. And you’re wrong about “all” survivors of gun violence want severe restrictions.
And here’s some evidence that some school shooting are not what they seem: https://youtu.be/gH8Pq_cIQFI

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

More guns reduced crime in Brazil: www.wsj.com/.../more-legal-gun-control-regulation-reduce-violent-crime-shooting-murder-brazil-semi-automatic-permit-supremep-court-new-york-decision-11656268995

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

More guns to >law abiding citizens<

[Twalli]

You really want to put guns in my hands?

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

That’s your choice.

[Twalli]

I'm a law abiding citizen

[Cuminginside]

@Twalli yeah a funny acronym like that movie L. A. C Law Abiding Citizen

[Twalli]

Plus we know what works. Guns are almost nonexistent in Japan because the laws are so strict you're in less trouble for carrying an unsheathed sword in public. The organized crime syndicates in Japan, the Yakuza, forbid their members from carrying guns. So the arguments that criminals will still have guns falls flat.

[Pterodon]

They’ve never had guns in Japan unlike us that’s had them since our country was born so your argument falls flat

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

Japan allows guns for hunting and at least once that sort of gun was used in a hostage situation. And don’t forget the assassination of Abe the prime minister with a homemade gun.

[Siri137]

@Pterodon Yes, you needed the guns in order to massacre the Indians and take their land.

[Siri137]

@Count_de_Monte_Volo Very rare exceptions to the rule, the rule being that in Japan there is practically no gun crime. The assassin who killed Abe had to make his own gun because it was actually easier to do that than buy one.

[Pterodon]

@Siri137 but you have nothing to say about the Spanish and Portuguese conquering S America and Mexico and parts of the Desert Southwest and wiping out the Incas, Mayans and Aztecs do you?

[Pterodon]

You have nothing to say about Alexander’s conquests or Kahn’s or the Roman empires it’s only Americans that are bad, right?

[Siri137]

@Pterodon It looks like a triggered a snowflake here :D
A classic example of "whataboutism". "What about them, those people over there, they did horrible things too, not just us!"
Yes, the Spanish and Portuguese did horrible things too, but they've since regretted their mistakes, they've largely moved on from their colonial days, but have you lot done so as well? No, and that's the problem.

[Pterodon]

@Siri137 yeah we have. The Spanish and Portuguese have done nothing

[Siri137]

@Pterodon Bullshit!

[Pterodon]

@Siri137 keep believing that. S America and Mexico speak Spanish except Brazil

[Pterodon]

It’s survival of the fittest. That’s just how it is.

[Siri137]

@Pterodon No it's not! Do you even understand what that expression is all about, what it means? Fascists the world over constantly use it because they think that it means something retarded like, "Kill your opponents and show them no mercy", or some other such imbecilic, infantile crap!
Within the world of biology, all it means is that those organisms that are best suited to their particular ecological niche will tend to thrive, will tend to do well in comparison with other lifeforms that may not be as suited to it. That's it, that's all it means.
Now take your quasi-fascist ramblings elsewhere if you don't mind, because your stupid responses here are just embarrassing to read.

[Pterodon]

@Siri137 it’s human nature to conquer

[Pterodon]

Not just each other but everything. From the highest mountains to the challenger deep. We conquer. It is survival of the fittest. The native Americans didn’t want to change with the times and were conquered just like the native S Americans were conquered

[Pterodon]

If you don’t like what you are then kill yourself. I like what I am

[Siri137]

@Pterodon What you are is a psychopathic asshole who doesn't give a damn about others, and who thinks that he's some kind of "Alpha-male", when in fact he's just a scrawny little Andrew Tate-worshipping incel who can't get laid.
"We conquer" - Pfft! What have you "conquered" lately? In real life that is, not on some crummy computer game.

[Pterodon]

@Siri137 I’ve conquered fears. You think life is everyone joining hands and singing kumbaya? How’s that working for ya? Did it work for the Incas or Mogdolon?

[Siri137]

@Pterodon A-hahahahahaha! "Fears". What of? The dark? Your domineering mother?

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

@Siri137 I’d say he “conquered” his living space and needs to defend it from savage foreign invaders (robbers, murderers, kidnappers, etc). Hopefully door locks will be enough, but if they aren’t…

As for giving a damn about others, law abiding gun owners have guns BECAUSE they give a damn. To defend themselves, loved ones, the innocent, and the helpless from assailants.

[Siri137]

@Pterodon I just had a closer look at your profile image. A gun of all things. Why am I not surprised?

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

@Siri137 are you British?

[Siri137]

@Count_de_Monte_Volo What kind of sick society do you have over there? Where I live no one has a gun, needs a gun, and, or would even consider getting one because they'd be puzzled as to why they need one in the first place.
To defend yourselves? Against what? Just look at how often there's a mass shooting in the U. S., while in other parts of the world (like New Zealand, Australia, Japan) such a thing is practically unheard of. Isn't it OBVIOUS the primary reason for this discrepancy is due to the fact that the U. S. is awash with guns, and any mentally unbalanced person can get their hands on one by just walking through the doors of any shop that sells them?

[Siri137]

@Count_de_Monte_Volo No, not British. Guess again.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

@Siri137 I guessed correctly you are not American. Yes, our country has a sick society. I can’t believe how uneducated you (Brits) are about American crime. I bring this up because I debated someone from London about guns. They were projecting their sense of safety in their country onto America. We got serial killers, psychos, kidnappers, rapists, every kind of criminal everywhere. Our homes can be invaded literally at any time. So yeah, we need guns. At least admit our country is crazy so we need guns. Don’t project.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

@Siri137 what kind of sick society do we have here? One so sick that good people need guns until the police arrive.

[Siri137]

@Count_de_Monte_Volo I said I wasn't - was NOT - British.

[Siri137]

@Count_de_Monte_Volo Get rid of the guns. You don't need them.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

We need them. We need more of them because a mass shooter’s worst nightmare is being stopped before they can kill a lot of people (who don’t have guns). This has happened. Also most gun owners aren’t criminals and not all criminals do gun violence so that’s proof again the problem isn’t the guns. You’re just scared of guns, and rightfully so. That is the power of a gun. And to give a good helpless person that power to defend themselves from savages that are worse than in the movies is a justice. And victims in all countries that banned guns could have benefited from a gun.

[Pterodon]

@Siri137 we have them because our government says we can. It’s to protect from a tyrannical government. The first thing a tyrannical government does is disarm the people

[Pterodon]

@Siri137 yes it’s my main sidearm. My Springfield 1911. I am exactly what the liberal left wants in a gun owner. I trained on this very weapon when I was in the military. So I’m professionally trained in the very weapon I carry plus I’m 100% legal to carry it so shut up. This proves you really want to disarm us

[Msputiton]

The problem isn't so much the guns as the mental health crisis created by shutting down the mental health facilities that was housing and helping these people who are snapping.

We decided as a country that mental health is not important.

We didn't have this extreme rise in mass shootings during that era.

We can see the impact from the people with mental health problems everywhere. From social media. To schools, jobs, on the streets, and even in our political system, and news outlets.

We have to reinvest into mental health. Start diagnosing people who need help. Stop ignoring the signs, and begin fixing America's mental health crisis that was created by shutting down most facilities meant to help these exact type of people

[NYCQuestions1976]

One thousand percent correct. It's a mental health crisis. Instead of reforming the mental institutions in this country, we just closed them down. Just about all of them were gone by the mid 1990s, so it's no surprise that Columbine happened not too long after that. Then we had the dawning of the internet, which promotes "Look at me!" behavior, then you get copycats, and more recently, the pandemic shutdown didn't help the situation.

[NYCQuestions1976]

Now we have mentally unhinged people running around and mingling with the rest of the general population.

[Fuentes]

Yup leaving mental health unchecked and telling them to be there best selfs lol sad

[Msputiton]

@Fuentes the worst thing i see is when someone does something that is obvious signs of a mental health disorder. They tell them oh no it's very normal to feel this way.
We normalize obviously mentally disturbed behavior, so we do not hurt someone's feelings

[Fuentes]

Yup lol a 5150 is a 5150 they gotta accept it is in no way shape or form normal for anyone to think about murder everyday or weird stuff close to it

[NYCQuestions1976]

@Fuentes @msputiton You're both absolutely correct. Unfortunately there are also the issues with the ineffectiveness of criminal background checks in cases like these. Background checks don't generally work with many people with mental health problems like this, because many of them don't have criminal records, so they're able to purchase "legal" firearms, and then it's too late and only a matter of time.

[Fuentes]

@NYCQuestions1976 if they were 5150'd it reported to thr FBI each time a person is hospitalized for mental health holds and it can affect them from buying a weapon on the fbi chick but that's the issue more people with mental health need to be 5150'd

[NYCQuestions1976]

@Fuentes Unfortunately 5150s are rarely implemented nowadays, which needs to change. Also, local, state, regional, and national authorities need to do a better job with sharing information about documented mental incidents.

[MrShaun]

I appreciate your point of view. I don't think that's a bad consideration. But having such easy access to firearms is another component of the problem.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@MrShaun I'm sure that more can be done to prevent illegal firearms from being smuggled and obtained. However legal firearms for law-abiding citizens have been available in this country since the Revolutionary War and the signing of the Constitution. What's changed (or at least the biggest change) in the last few decades is society allowing the mostly unchecked integration of the mentally unhinged into the general population.

[DubiousIntentions]

They are all copycat shootings. One clown does it and everyone else jumps on the band wagon. Maybe we should have dinner parties for the homeless and see if everyone jumps on that instead. Or maybe it's a dumb Tik Tok challenge. How many sitting ducks can you shoot at one time?

[BeMuse]

It doesn’t matter how much propaganda you push. It doesn't matter how many kids you and your friends shoot. All Americans are endowed by their Creator with certain “unalienable” Rights, that among these are Life, “Liberty” and the pursuit of Happiness. The Bill of Rights in the United States (first 10 amendments to the U. S. Constitution) constitute a collection of mutually reinforcing guarantees of individual rights and limitations on government that derive from the Magna Carta who’s primary purpose was to document the “liberties” held by “free men” in Anglo-American jurisprudence. Free men will always cherish, honor, and fight for "liberty". Free men will not and can not give up their unalienable rights. Unalienable rights are not transferable to another or not capable of being taken away or denied. So you just need to get a box a tissues and a plane ticket to a different country, because "liberty" isn’t going to surrender to the likes of a fascist like you.

[ShadezMcgee]

Once again, you are showing to be a one trick pony with this bullshit, Shaun. Tasteless and without shame you constantly use victims of these incidents as props to troll and voice your anti gun agenda.

You have failed multiple times to give any logical solutions when people respond to your questions challenging your stance and statements.

[Fuentes]

Of course not, he just wants to say no more guns but let the criminals have them and now everyone's fucked. He needs to just move to a gunless country and shut up. alresdy lol

[Msputiton]

I do hate that people use death as a way to push for something that's not gonna happen, or solve the problem.
It's really disgusting.
We don't see any real solutions. Just someone trying to either push an agenda or purposely annoy gun owners.
Really a gross behavior.
And to your point when people do try to open a logical discussion to the problem he gives crickets proving he not concerned with fixing it

[Cuminginside]

@Msputiton I always thought you were a liberal until I saw this post good job there's a huge demanding need for Mental Health Services and not enough of us out there to provide it. Thank you for your opinion.

[HighValue]

Why not stop teaching/encouraging racism in schools, and stop encouraging sexism against men in schools too?

Teaching people to hate each other has the largest effect of bad events like that. The schools/teachers/administration's are the main problem when it comes to those kinds of things, followed by irresponsible parents that let their kids have smart phones. (Unsupervised access to the internet.)

[Agape93]

Yawn, more outrage porn from the one who doesn't give two shits about people's safety when it doesn't work to his political advantage.

@PrettyPriya I hate stupid partisan nonsense.

[OfMiceandMen]

If no one wants to give up their guns? Go back to some form of capital punishment to discourage people. I realize the majority are teens, but they should know better by that age?

[MysticDevice]

You can hide behind a "Gun Free Zone" sign.

I'll hide behind my Ruger.


Making victims defenseless doesn't make criminals harmless. Because criminals, by definition of being criminals, don't obey the law.

[Uannoyme]

You've never answered me on how we get rid of the guns that are in the hands of criminals.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

Maybe the corrupt government will do that for us :9

[TheIrishWolf]

Less guns in the country = less guns available and guns are seen as more serious and less casual.

[TheIrishWolf]

Criminals will always have guns. And so will the police. But if you get to a point like in Ireland, where specialised police only carry guns for emergency reaction. Its better.

Atm, we're debating if pepper spray is too much for all Garda (police), to carry them 😂. I think its ok.

[TheIrishWolf]

And certain police carrying weapons probably reduces fatal police brutality.

[TheIrishWolf]

Also, it's not the these criminals, it's fucked up children doing these crimes. Not Tupac and Biggie.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

The “fucked up children” are officially a criminal once they start shooting.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

And pre-meditated murder makes then a criminal before the shooting. So you implying the word “criminal” only applies to “Tupac and Biggie” is ignorant.

[TheIrishWolf]

The Tupac and Biggie thing is a funny reference to "Gangstas," as apposed to school shooters. Because those school shooters don't have illegal guns conveniently as a "Tupac and Biggie" type gangstas would to illegal ones.

by the way, I don't live in America (obviously by my previous comments), so I don't know of your laws to be able to be "ignorant." For all I know, it could be the same.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

Google: florida times jacksonville Inmates: It's easy for kids to get guns

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

“How did teens in shootouts become so normal? Why does this keep happening in our city? And where are these kids getting guns?

The reality is this: Guns are plentiful on the streets in many Jacksonville communities.”

"We carry guns because everybody carry guns and leaving your safety to the police that don't even come in certain neighborhoods or is not always in the right place at the right time can end up with you dead,”

[TheIrishWolf]

OK. So whats the compromise then? Do you think there's something that can be done to start taking a grip of the situation? Should there be longer sentences for illegal gun possesion or longer processes and tougher criteria to obtain a gun? Do you think you NEED ARs? Because I don't think anyone needs a military grade rifle. The max, a pistol with a small mag, or the least, a double barrell shotgun.

That's reasonable.

[TheIrishWolf]

by the way, I respect your gun culture, I find the fascinate too. And I respect the engineering. But if I want to shoot a gun, I'll go to a range.

Also, in Ireland, you can have guns under strict and rigorous circumstances for hunting. No ARs. 😂

[Uannoyme]

@TheIrishWolf first of all, its none of my business to tell people what they need. I'm sure you have plenty of things you don't *need*. Most gun homicides are committed with handguns, so please stop with this "you don't need ARs" nonsense. You didn't answer the question at all.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

I said in my opinion post that the solution is not a “compromise” it is an upgrade in technology to Star Trek stun phasers. That means scientists and engineers developing it. The same way we look back on the past and think those people were primitive without microwaves and without cars, stun phasers will be the next leap in weaponry and will benefit both sides. Much less death AND much less crime.

[CAPTAIN-OBVIOUS]

The problem isn’t the guns. Guns don’t kill people. People kill people

[MrShaun]

... Using guns.

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

If you ban guns you’ll go from people killing people to bad people killing good people, using guns.

[TheIrishWolf]

Yeah. It's not like they're designed to kill people...

[TheIrishWolf]

Oh, wait...

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

You know what, I’m gonna say it: It just dawned on me that outlawing guns will INCREASE mass shootings. The street is the nation’s biggest gun store. You’ll only change legally bought gun shootings to illegally bought gun shootings. So no shootings would be stopped. You’ll get more in fact.

[captain_voidwalker]

Strange how all these mass shootings keep happening in gun free zones. Almost like criminals respect your gun free zones about as much as they respect any gun laws you might pass.

[KrakenAttackin]

Do you realize that 140 people die PER DAY in automobile accidents across the U. S?

The answer is mental health screening and treatment, not banning guns. Stop being an NPC leftists and actually THINK about what you are posting.

[Curmudgeon]

You are playing into the hands of the people who "defunded the police" and made you more helpless.

[SirJohn42]

Well a gun doesn't kill people. Just mentally ill people do.

Taking guns away will not stop people from getting them illegally. Taking guns from law abiding citizens will just get them killed.

[strateguy632]

the opposite the multitude NEEDS hand guns to stop the rapid fire guys instead of WAITING for cops. guns for anyone after screening.

[LiamJHayden]

Taking guns from law-abiding people will not stop criminals from getting them, but it will make those law-abiding people much easier targets for crazies.

[NYCQuestions1976]

I agree with @msputiton. She's 1000% correct.

[gorydetails]

We just need to ban democrats from owning guns, and gun crimes would drop 80%

[TheIrishWolf]

Americas biggest failure as a society, as much as I respect it fir everything else.

[Pterodon]

There’s plenty of countries you can go to jack ass if you’re so miserable

[mommymommymommy]

Welcome to republican logic. The answer to more guns? MORE GUNS?

To enrich the nra

[Marcia1218]

@mommymommymommy... You should really get out of mommy's basement 😂

[Jltakk]

Serbia had two record breaking ones days apart. Its not an America thing.