If women are hanging out at the FINISH LINE picking winners then what should MEN be doing to get there?

[coachTanthony]

Women pick men who are winner in life.

[englisc]

All you can do is do your best and aim as high as you possibly can. Everybody has limitations, not everybody can "win". There will always be somebody better than you in some way: taller, better looking, more money. It doesn't matter, because most people don't even strive for greatness.

Maybe you run that marathon and you come in like 20th or something. You didn't win. But you came 20th out of thousands of people. Those thousands of people also trained, and are fitter than the average person. They guy/girl who came in 1000th, 2000th, 3000th, 10,000th place is fitter than the average person. The average person doesn't exercise at all. The average person could barely run a half a marathon, they couldn't even complete that.

The same goes everywhere else. I like to lift weights. Plenty of guys are bigger and stronger than me. But I'm much stronger than the average guy. 65% of guys are obese. Of the remaining 35%, the majority are scrawny and out of shape. Simply lifting weights regularly, eating right, and having the discipline to do that sets you apart from probably 80% of men in that area.

That's all that's really required.

[OlderAndWiser]

Assuming that you are intending your question not literally but are using an analogy. . . guys should be developing self-confidence and not changing themselves to please a woman. They should be developing their competencies and developing pride in themselves.

[coachTanthony]

Not everyone gets it ! That’s for sure!

[That_Skinny_Chick]

What does it mean to "win at life" in this context? If we dont know what you want to accomplish how can you us to give advice on how to get their. If you hand out food to people at a soup kitchen because you genuinely care about other human beings regardless of where they are or where they've been, thats what i consider winning at life. It means you have developed a kind heart, and sense of solidarity with others.

No woman worth your time cares how much you can bench or how fast your car goes. The hardest crush i ever had was for a guy who wasn't jacked, worked at a factory, and drove a rusted out chevy malibu. He was a kind intelligent person who loved people and loved to help them through tough times and make them laugh. didn't matter what you said, you couldnt hurt that mans feelings or tear him down. He'd just smile and give you a hug because he was winning at life.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

So in other words, you’re saying the analogy was accurate?

[That_Skinny_Chick]

@AllThatSweetJazz kind of, but the race that matters is one that anyone can win. Its not about superficial and material gains, its about being a good person. Everyone should want someone who is winning that race😊

[AllThatSweetJazz]

But in context women didn't run the race and it isn't just about being a good person. Either that isn't the full extent of the race or there's a second important race we're supposed to be talking about.

[Cynicaldreamer]

Hit the gym, get in shape, and try to cross the line first, lol

Joking aside...

Do things that make you stand out in a positive way:
•Have a job and always look for ways to move up or better yourself. Living paycheck to paycheck isn't going to impress anyone
•Dress well- and I don't just mean a suit and tie. I mean in clothes that accentuate your body or make you feel confident
•Speak firmly and confidently, assert yourself!
•Don't be an ass
•Don't take 'shortcuts' or cheat to get to the finishline: by that I mean lying or manipulating or being someone you're not to impress others
•Don't be like the hare in the tortoise and the hare story: he got too cocky and arrogant and lost the race to the "slow and steady" tortoise

... slow and steady wins the race- or the nice guy WILL eventually win the race.

[coachTanthony]

I like it!

[HereIbe]

But it's okay for the woman to just sit on her ass at the finish line, never bothering to race, herself.

[StingRayxoxo]

I don't think the right question is being asked here. The women should not be hanging at the finish line. They should be actively involved in the race as well. Find the Male jogger that runs at her pace.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

But does she want the guy that runs at her pace?
To keep to this analogy, she would insist a guy be able to *at least* run faster than her and *ideally* be a winner.

[StingRayxoxo]

That's true.
Likely it varies for most people. But at some points in the relationship, she may need him to pull ahead when she cannot, and vice versa.
I think the answer to this question varies by person.
Does the guy want to be doing all of the running while his woman just stands around waiting?

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"Does the guy want to be doing all of the running while his woman just stands around waiting? "
Well that's my issue with the premise of the question. My generation we taught that men and women are equal and I'm not sure that this point whether that's for better or for worse, but I don't think I'm ever going to shake that mentality. So if you tell me I'm running, women are not, and the winners of the race are the prizes who get picked up by spectators (?) then that just sounds 'nanas to me.

What I'd like is options, and with those options, choices that actually amount to something -- not just being someone who runs for someone else's benefit. I could at least understand women not running if it meant I was the one choosing; if I'm running and winning then the prize is mine to pick. That makes more sense. At the same time there can be women running which allows for the possibility of something different. But that brings me to the next thing.

"But at some points in the relationship, she may need him to pull ahead when she cannot, and vice versa."
That seems practical and fair on the surface, but how does it really pan out? If she's running, then is she running a race according to my values and what I want in a racer (wtf even is this analogy? :P) or are we both just running her race, which brings into question fairness again. Let's be real, like you agreed to, she insists that I be equal or more capable, and I'm probably going to be doing more of that work when it pans out. And there's the important difference in that the pressure to be capable isn't mutual, I'm not pressuring her to run. She cares about this race, not me. And so that again loops back to the other line "Does the guy want to be doing all of the running while his woman just stands around waiting?" It's like okay, you're not "waiting" exactly, but is it really all fair and dandy? Are we all actually getting what we want, because I feel like it's a no from me.

[Wowgirl30q]

Why the hell would I chase any guy? No I'll wait I don't run @stingrayxoxo

[AllThatSweetJazz]

@StingRayxoxo See now, while I don't necessarily consider yours a truly fair scenario, I at least appreciate your attempt and inclination toward fairness and mutual compromise. So now consider yourself in a guy's shoes (or your shoes, whatever) and you hear a woman say this to you: "Why the hell would I chase any guy? No I'll wait I don't run." How do you react to that? I feel like you'd agree with me that 'aww hell naw' is an understandable response. Like, even if I win the race, it's that attitude in itself that makes me not want to invest in her. Do you share my sentiment?
This is the rhetoric we're faced with all too often.

[StingRayxoxo]

@AllThatSweetJazz I do share your sentiment. But there are some men that would still invest in women who would wait and not run.

You're certainly right, wtf is the metaphor? I'm certainly 'nanas now! Lol

[Logorithim]

Run in the race they want to run In

[DannyJake]

That is so true, I'm surprised it's not in the Bible! Oddly, you'd have to experience it for yourself to appreciate its depth. It happened to me, but I'll spare you the details.

For guys, my best advice is to think of women as a puppy:

If you chase the puppy, it'll just run away faster. But if you turn and do your own thing, the puppy will chase you instead!

Develop the best "you" that you can. You'll find, like the saying says, the women will come along once they see you've "won the race."

[coachTanthony]

How did you find this question? LOO

[purplepoppy]

The problem is so many have the attitude can't win don't try "There's no point in entering a marathon because I'm not going to win." We see the same attitude in guys all the time" I'm not going to college because I'll end up in MacDonalds anyway so whats the point". It's not so much that we're attracted to winners, it's more we're turned off by those who never try. There'll always be guys with better jobs, faster cars and bigger houses, that doesn't mean there's no point in looking for a girl.

[fueledbythc]

there's other reasons to not look. infact i feel nobody should go out of their way for a relationship. the best relationships are the ones that start as friends and evolves into a relationship.

not looking for a girl too keeps me natural instead of faking for a good impression. im never shy around women because of this. they are shy to me.

[virginbish]

Fueledbythc, I totally agree with you.
I'm the same way, although I am shy around guys but I always stay true to myself and don't go out of my way to impress them. And I've gotten a couple guys interested because they saw how true I was and down to earth.

From my experience not many guys act their true selves, but it really does pique my interest when they do, I dont feel on edge wondering if they are trying to be on their good behaviour all the time just to impress.

[devilman666]

It's more like "theres no point in competing so hard when the prize is shit." Just like going through college when you won't get a job out of it, you shouldn't devote your life to a controlling, cheating, useless woman. The majority of women sit back and expect us to compete for them just because its what men have always done, eventually men will realize these women aren't worth it though, we used to benefit from the competition by finding a good loyal and loving wife, now women wait for us to earn their worthless affection. It's not so much that men are attracted to winners, but men are getting tired of women who refuse to compete for their love, but the only way to make women start competing is for men to stop competing for worthless women.

Im not saying relationships are pointless, but like with college, men should only devote themselves to it when the evidence shows that it will benefit them. Men who devote themselves to either worthless women or worthless college degrees will most likely find themselves in crippling debt. Men should only devote themselves to women who show themselves to be far better than the average woman.

Fueledbythc has a good point too, this idea of making men compete means that a lot of men start lying to seem more attractive and competitive in the dating game.

[virginbish]

Devilman666, I agree with you. I just wish more guys would assess the value of a woman for loyalty, kindness, support, wifie material. I know it usually takes them a bit of time to get the sexual frustration out of their system and stop chasing the superficial attributes, but for a girl that's in her 20's and highly mature... it's a bit disheartening when you constantly lose to the girls who put the moves on the guys and distract them with their looks.

But I agree with you, guys really do need to stop competing for low value females and start looking for the high value ones, and the high value females may also need to step up their game and make themselves known so that maybe the guys can see they exist too ahah

[devilman666]

@purplepoppy I came up with a way to make your marathon example more realistic. It's like a marathon where at the end you get covered in dog shit and you lose half your money even if you come in first, and the only benefit is that you get to have sex with a woman. Then thousands of women are standing near the start line wondering why no good men are competing, just scum bags, losers, and idiots. Yet no woman standing there wonders why women arepn't competing. It's not that we lack confidence, it's that the competition lacks value.

@virginbish I agree, I think many men do value wife material, but they don't know what to look for or how to judge a woman without seeming controlling and manipulative. Don't worry too much, not all men are that way, I am unashamed to admit that as a straight man I have never had sex with a woman. Not all men chase after just sex, even in young age.

I can see how that could be disheartening, but I'm glad you seem to be up for the challenge, hopefully more women start stepping up, regardless of how they do it. I dont care if women work, or clean the house, or cook, I just can't stand useless people. Get a job and split the bills 50-50 with me or get into the kitchen and be a traditional wife/mother, but women who just want to get pregnant and then sit around complaining all day can stay out of my life. The majority of American women seem to want a man who earns and contributes more than she does financially, but she also expects him to do half the cooking and cleaning, if I'm paying for the mortgage and doing the cooking+cleaning for myself then what do I need her for?

[devilman666]

I got a little off topic though, definitely high value women need to show it off more, a lot of women like to push the idea that men will be intimidated by your success, but I think that is mostly nonsense. I do agree though that a lot of men do need to be better, there are lots of shit men too, but as I tried to point out, we've created a competition where the scumbags, losers, and idiots are the most likely to succeed.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

I feel like the context of the question is that why should men run for women who don’t and that you’re not really answering that.

[purplepoppy]

Woman don't need to run, that's the whole point. We are the judges and selectors. Thats just basic biology.

[devilman666]

@purplepoppy hahaha thanks for making my point. You are simply wrong, before feminism women would devote their time to learning how to run a household and have a feminine personality, they valued femininity and being emotionally supportive for their husband. In this way women of the past used to compete to be good women that would earn the attention of a man based on her kindness and compassion. I'm not saying women should do this again, but competion did exist, todays women just dont seem to want any expectations on them. Modern women only compete through attractiveness and then complain that men only care about their looks, which is hypocritical. If women started paying for dates and buying gifts then they could compete over who makes the most money, they could compete over who would make the best mother, they could compete over who is most intelligent/educated, etc. Instead women choose to compete over attracriveness, and they face the consequences when they marry men who expect them to do the majority of cleaning because that's the way it always was, or they realize their husband only married them for their looks.

[purplepoppy]

I don't follow your logic. We do learn how to run a house, act like a lady and so on. We do these things so the better quality men compete for us. No decent man wants a wife who'd embarrass him through unladylike behaviour after all.

[devilman666]

@purplepoppy are you kidding? Most women today complain if men dont do 50% of the cleaning. Women are becoming more aggressive and less feminine in almost everyway, I don't see how you can say they still act like ladies unless you do not know what a lady is. Women today are the least lady like they've been in the past hundred years, it's like me saying my dad taught me to be masculine because I have a job and am not alcoholic, it is a very weak definition of the word masculine/lady.

Maybe you can prove my wrong, how do you define the term lady? How must a woman behave in order to be classed as a lady?

Similarly, how do you define a masculine/manly man? How must a man behave in order to be classed as manly?

[purplepoppy]

Men clean? You got to be kidding me. If they can't blast it with a hose pipe they get confused. Were you around 100 years ago? Women were far tougher and aggressive back then. Spend a few mins with any old lady and theyll moan about our generation being soft.

[devilman666]

@purplepoppy wow, you're seriously fucking sexist. You're so sexist it is kind of fucking funny, or maybe you just date the worst kind of guys. I work at a fast food restaurant, every man who works there knows how to clean, I wash all the dishes. Cleaning is basically a requirement and I can guarantee the majority of men know how to clean up after themselves. Whether or not they have the energy to clean after they work an exhausting 8-12 hour shift is another story. If you honestly think men need a pressure washer in order to clean anything then you are simply sexist, end of story.

emotional fortitude and toughness is different from aggressiveness. Women can be tough and yet submissive at the same time, so yes, while women back then were more emotionally tough, they were less physically violent and aggressive, they were less likely to scream and shout and were more likely to act ladylike and with proper etiquette. You seriously do not seem to understand feminine traits at all.

[devilman666]

Nice way to dodge my questions by the way.

[purplepoppy]

I can assure you that most women (and men) are not violent or aggressive. Yes there are some on the bottom rung they behave like animals but most of us know how to conduct ourselves properly. I'm sure you'd like us to be submissive and roll on our backs like a scared puppy but it's not going to happen.

[devilman666]

I never said most women, I said women used to be less likely to get violent or aggressive. I dont just mean physically though, I think women yell more and are more emotionally abusive nowadays.

I dont want women to be submissive, I merely proposed that as one option for women to stand out from the average of having a vagina and being somewhat attractive. Personally I'd prefer women try to be my equal, if a woman offered to pay for my dinner during a first date, it would be a very attractive and would almost guarantee a second date. What I want specifically though is for women to try to earn my attraction the way I try to earn theirs, because I am tired of one sided relationships. Thank you for putting words in my mouth, you fucking sexist.

[purplepoppy]

Perhaps if you had a proper job rather than working in fast food at your age you'd be more successful with women. That abusive attitude really doesn't help either.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"Woman don't need to run, that's the whole point. We are the judges and selectors. Thats just basic biology."
And that's my whole point; this is what women believe that and it's a BS situation to be in. So the question becomes, what do we do to find an overall more satisfying outcome for everyone instead of men being railroaded into a raw deal?

[HereIbe]

"Women don't need to run". Wow, that's the life motto of a serious gold-digging bitch.

[devilman666]

@purplepoppy thanks, bit I dont take dating advice from sexists.

You are a toxic person, we can't even have a real debate here because you are accusing me of things without reason, shaming me for not having a good enough job, and generalizing all men.

How do I have an abusive attitude? I told you i dont want women to be submissive, however like you I desire a partner who is worth my time.
"Its not so much were attracted to winners its more were turned off by those who never try", this goes for both men and women.

[devilman666]

@purplepoppy by the way, I dont want more success with bad women. If the only thing they care about is my job then that means they only care about my money. I want a woman who cares about me and shows it through her actions. I plan on getting a better job in the future, but any woman who would see me as not worth their time because of my job, is not worth my time.

[ronaldo75]

Nothing. Stop placing so much value on women and win just to win. Forget about winning so you get the girl. Ask what the fuck she's bringing into your life? Pussy and "just being a girl" isn't enough anymore. It's this attitude that gives women with nothing to offer so much power over the men who actually create.

[coachTanthony]

Stop placing so much value on women and win just to win.

strive for excellence and the rest will come. Like it!

[hahahmm]

Look at rockstars. They are not waiting for a woman to pick them. Women chase them. If a man is the ‘rockstar’ of his own life story... he’s focused on his music/art/career.

[coachTanthony]

Good analogy.

[HereIbe]

And he can discard and replace women as often as he likes.

[Kaazsz]

The race is a lie. The race is where all the brainwashed by society people go because they believe it is a race.

But it’s not a race. Its only a race because you believe it is. You think women want money and all this shit. They just want a man who is comfortable in his own existence and is unafraid to be what he is.

[SuperManiac]

I would prefer it to be the 100m dash. I was the fastest there in my school. Unfortunately, women have a wide range of tastes, so I'd go with being really good at whatever your thing is, developing social appeal (cause it won't help much with the fans if you can barely talk to them; I learned this the hard way), and hope there are some girls cheering and waiting at your personal finish line.

[RawIronhide]

Beats the fuck out of me. The problem is everyone starts winning. Then they keep moving the finish line further and further. I know this sounds salty but it's my observation. I do agree with most girls responses on this question though. Im always working to make me AND the people around me better. I think thats all we can hope for.

[LuWe22]

Working on themself. Important is that you feel good about yourself and carry yourself good. Be interesting, have a few hobbys and passions that you can talk about.

[coachTanthony]

I can't disagree!

[HereIbe]

What about simply ignoring the gold-diggers and making life with a fellow racer?

[LuWe22]

The question was should men do to get to the finish line assuming it means to get your dream girl. I just answered it. Of course girls should also work on themself. Be happy with themself and work on their health and wellbeing. My point is when you love yourself you attract others and can find your partner and love them.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

I feel like the question was actually about justification. As in, if women are just going to wait at the finish line while we’re out here running, what should men be doing instead, or to address that problem.

[coachTanthony]

@AllThatSweetJazz That is not the context. The context is... if women are hanging out at the finish line picking winners (and these women could be winners themselves) what can men do to get there. And Men once they are at the finish line also have the choice to say no so it works both ways.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Saying it goes both ways implies fairness, but I'm running and they aren't so...

Look, you may not have meant it that way, but that's the can of worms that's been opened. So you can either tell me your analogy was incomplete or you can repackage the "it goes both ways" thing, because it's not making sense.

[coachTanthony]

@AllThatSweetJazz Those are your can of worms not mine. Women don't need men anymore like they used too. Sure there will always be gold diggers at the finish line but there are way more female winners now waiting to meet their match. Their standards are now higher for a man in a much different way. They want a man who they can build an empire with... not play housewife.

[HereIbe]

I won't put up with a woman who demands that I build the empire FOR her. That's what a lazy woman who just waits around at the finish line is. I want a FELLOW RACER.

[coachTanthony]

@HereIbe Don't take stuff out of context dude. I said "with" not for.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Again, did they run a race or not? If they are winners did they run a race according to the values I care about? Is my desire worth equal consideration? And if they aren't running a race then what are you even talking about?

[LuWe22]

#whoosh

[coachTanthony]

@AllThatSweetJazz You would have to ask them when you get there. Some may have some may haven't. If you want someone who also ran the race or whatever it is your values are then good for you. There will be all kinds of women at that finish line. Winners who ran the race and ones who didn't. It's still up to the guy to get there to begin with which is what the question is about.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Okay, I still think there's a question about what is justified in asking of men to get there, but okay. I also think it would be interesting to see what people think women have to do to get across the line. I imagine one group that is snarky women who scoff at the idea that women run for men and that it should be the other way around, then there would be another group of women that would list all the things they care about rather than what men care about.

[Anonymous]

Nothing if women aren't content with you just for you then fuck em its not about being with a winner its about winning together and helping each other both win! honestly if your a winner why would you want to be with a loser?

[coachTanthony]

Just because the women at the finish line are picking winners doesn't mean they aren't winners themselves.

[Opinion Owner]

It kinda does because if you were a winner you wouldn't need to wait for a winner because your a winner lol

[coachTanthony]

If you are a winner you go where others winners are.. THE FINISH LINE. it's really just a metaphor lets not muck it up! LOL

[Opinion Owner]

No if your a winner you win the race yourself not try to grab a winner

[coachTanthony]

Thanks for the comments.

[Opinion Owner]

Thanks for not being a dick I also respect your opinions

[coachTanthony]

Everyone's opinion matters! No worries mate! Have a good one!

[1828avaava1828]

actually love this question. I want to write an actual good thoughtful response to this but i have to run here quick!! I hope I remember to come back to this lol

[MlleCake]

We aren't. We're running our own races, some of which are made arbitrarily more difficult because of what is expected of women vs. men.

[Wowgirl30q]

Working , being funny, being kind, being responsible

[IamLisaSmith]

Winners attract winners. We live at the finish line.

[No_Archons]

Lol and what did u do to get there?

[Cocacolaaddict]

@No_Archons Probably just having a vagina in her mind there aren't many women who are winners hence why they go for winners

[sonnysunshine]

@Cocacolaaddict bingo.

[IamLisaSmith]

Look at all the beta males in my comment thread. Welcome Welcome.

[Cocacolaaddict]

Cool whatever makes you feel better

[AllThatSweetJazz]

The point of the question is that you didn’t even run.

[IamLisaSmith]

@AllThatSweetJazz I was born a winner no need to run a stupid race. Just go to the finish line and meet your equal.

[HereIbe]

Born a winner? A life motto for a useless burden of a gold-digging bitch. I only go after fellow runners. Ride or die beats gold-digging every time.

[IamLisaSmith]

@HereIbe Get your anger in check it's so unattractive. yUcK

[HereIbe]

Only a useless, lazy, stuck-on-herself gold-digging bitch thinks she can just lie around on her lazy ass and be "born a winner". Winning is EARNED. Nobody gets to be born a winner. But you keep being a gold-digging bitch. I will stick with my ride-or-die woman.

[IamLisaSmith]

@HereIbe Seriously get some help. People get help all the time now. There is no shame in that. Good luck to you.

[HereIbe]

You're the one who needs help. That's obvious. You have all the thought patterns of a prostitute. That's not healthy.

[Cocacolaaddict]

To be fair your arrogance is yuck all the same so you can't exactly say he's the unattractive one lol

[Cocacolaaddict]

@HereIbe stay strong brother don't let her get to you :)

[HereIbe]

@Cocacolaaddict, she isn't, I'm just toying with her sorry ass because she's so stuck on herself. Maybe she'll figure out that what I say openly is how the rest of the world sees her.

[Cocacolaaddict]

@HereIbe you have set you standards too high she will never realize it best just leave her be and move on

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"I was born a winner no need to run a stupid race. Just go to the finish line and meet your equal. "
Thanks, I was just fishing for some toxic rhetoric just so we all know you're awful.
Look, I get no one here is going to be able to convince you that you're not amazing, okay. But consider that even if you think you are a catch: Firstly, It's shit like this that discourages men to run the race, yes even "good" ones. And second, of the ones that do finish, do you really think that saying shit like that makes you appeal more than the other women who are actually respectful?

I'm sure you said to your something along the lines of "good, we don't want the losers running anyway," well if they weren't' going to win then what does it matter? It doesn't, you're just being obnoxious.

All I'm saying is that you being obnoxious is serving no one, not even you.

[IamLisaSmith]

@AllThatSweetJazz The beta male protector has arrived. Look guys your hero is here.

[HereIbe]

Awwww, the little butthurt gold-digger bitch has to lash out. Tell me, gold-digger, how successful have you been? You're going to be a cat lady. Or maybe you're actually a man.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Deflect and belittle. Check.

[sonnysunshine]

@IamLisaSmith I almost jumped on the bandwagon but on this thread but thought twice about it.

You just need to ask yourself this. Would you honestly date the male version of yourself? Don’t give me that “well if he was a born winner ya de ah”. Seriously. Look at yourself and see if you would date someone just like you

[IamLisaSmith]

@sonnysunshine Why are all the guys on GAG so serious? IRL I am a peach.

[HereIbe]

You're a stuck on yourself bitch who thinks she was "born" a winner.

[lernulo]

On my opinion live their lives and learn social skills.

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

What should we do? Easy, stay with the girl that runned the race on our side.

[HereIbe]

RIDE OR DIE BEATS GOLD-DIGGERS!

[Celtero]

If that's the case I've hopped the fence and bought a pretzel.

[devilman666]

You are looking at this wrong, because men pick the winners from the women too.

[devilman666]

So my answer is impoving their standards and not letting so many low quality women past the finish line. Dont give them any power through relationships.

[HereIbe]

Ignore all the gold-diggers hanging out at the finish line and find a woman who's IN THE RACE to be his mate!

[coachTanthony]

So because a woman wants a winner in life she is automatically a gold digger?

[HereIbe]

No, you idiot. If what she does it wait around ON HER LAZY ASS at the finish line for a winner, THEN she's a gold-digger. If she's not running in the race, she's a gold digger. How did you get to be so STUPID? Winners pick FELLOW WINNERS, or at the very least someone who gives it all in the race. Sad men who get conned pick the lazy bitches who wait at the finish line but don't bother running in the race, themselves.

[coachTanthony]

Idiot? Dude relax it's just a question to spark conversation. I like your passion and honesty but don't be a troll man.