Tbh I find that to be real bullshit. ! My aunt was 38 years old when she married her husband who was 6 years younger than her, he’s a rich surgeon and she was just a nurse! Miranda Kerr married a guy while she’s 7 years older than him, and he’s a billionaire, he could’ve bang any 20 years old supermodel that he wanted but her choosed her, while she’s a divorced single mom! Matt damon also married a waitress average looking woman who already had a kid, while this will be a killer for many average joes, Ryan gosling married a woman who’s 7 years older than him, prince harry married a woman 3 years older than him, Chris hemaworth married a woman who’s 6 years older than him! How does it come that those attractive rich men who could’ve bang any younger hot girl they wanted choosed to settle down with older women even if these women were less successful than them? What’s so funny is that the majority of men who claim that women passed their prime after 25 or 30, are usually bald, ugly and broke! Saying that a woman passed her prime after 30 is just a stupid tactic that ugly loosers invented to make women feel grateful if they desire them when they are 30 or plus! They be like «yeah you have a sexy body, and a pretty face but even if you have no winkle or look younger, you should be happy that a broke ass dude like me is hitting on you, cause no high quality man will hit on you, no matter how pretty you are! It’s bIoLogY!»
I am only 20 but thank God I will never fall into that stupid trap
Do you truly believe that women hit the Wall after the age of 30 no matter how pretty they are?
I think there's elements of truth to this when you look at the underlying patterns and the fact that women do have an "optimal window" for fertility and child-bearing (you know, all that 'evolutionary biology stuff' that underlies the social veneer of polite society). And also, that female fertility is communicated to men through various "fertility markers"-- of which "youthful, vivacious good looks" is one such indicator out of several. All of this is well-documented biological reality, and only the most determined of social constructionist ideologues would really challenge this reality.
But the claim itself-- about women "hitting a wall" at age 30-- is an erroneous misinterpretation of the actual, verifiable science.
The science only tells us that women have an "optimal period" for fertility, and also that fertility gradually tapers off until perimenopause, through menopause, and finally post-menopause.
So in a sense, menopause itself is the "wall" at which fertility cuts off. But even that only indicates the end of a woman's natural reproductive capacities. It says far less-- if anything-- about her physical attractiveness, her sexual desirability, or her suitability as a romantic partner.
Of course, physical attractiveness *tends* to correlate with fertility levels in women-- but to say that's ALL it correlates with is also erroneous. Attractiveness is a net sum that results from a 'calculation' involving many variables and data points. Fertility biomarkers are one set of variables in that calculation, but there are many other variables besides them.
This is where we must look beyond evolutionary science, towards more comprehensive models of "what makes a woman desirable?" Part of it is biology, part of it psychology (beauty in eye of beholder, etc), part of it behaviorism, part of it social conditioning, part of it hygiene, health, fitness, fashion sense, etc. On and on it goes.
So if female fertility declines beyond a certain age range until finally hitting the menopause "wall"... then it seems reasonable enough to factor that decline into the overall equation of "attractiveness". Most of that equation is tracked subconsciously, by parts of the male brain and body that we don't even consciously realise are doing said tracking at all. But a decline in one department can be compensated by a net overall gain in other departments. In simpler terms, let's compare two people: One, an 18 year old girl with good genes who snorts coke and parties 7 nights a week and drinks a bottle of whiskey every day and 20 packs of cigarettes a week and has severe mental issues with body image, sexuality, and impulsive behaviour. And two, a woman in her mid-30s who took care of her health and fitness and mental wellbeing from a very young age, who is emotionally well adjusted, who manages stress effectively and is grateful for her life, and has a sweetness and moral decency that rubs off on everyone she encounters. Who is more attractive in this scenario? If we go only by raw fertility markers, the 18 year old may well win on sheer youthfulness and "child-bearing hips". But in a multivariate equation, the 35 year old would surely come out on top. Every fibre of her being just screams "healthy and vibrant and full of joi de vivre". I know where I'd put my chips if you put a gun to my head and made me bet...
1. Rich women don't count as they have an "unfair" advantage to the average Jane. If you had a personal trainer, stylist and cook you certainly will look better yourself and age better.
2. I don't believe in it. Believing has nothing to do with having rational thoughts. I do THINK it is the case.
3. Countless of studies have proven this. For once pretty much all men find women aged 20-23 the MOST (physically) attrractive. Doesn't matter if the guy is 20 or 70. This is so stable of a finding that it can be easily be classified as a biological truth. And it is perfectly logical that men are attractive to youth since it implies fertility and health. What makes procreation of a species successful? Fertility and Health. It really isn't rocket science.
4. So when men find women aged 20-23 the most attractive - what happens next? There are more studies showing that womens fertility - which not only includes the likelihood of pregnancy but also the likelihood of going healthy through pregnancy and having a healthy baby - starts slowly declining at 27-28. It takes up the pace at around ~33 when it starts becoming russian roulette. By the time a woman is 37 any good doctor would medically advice her not to get pregnant. Inb4 there are cases where women got successfully pregnant and got a child even with 40+. For once it's an outlier and secondly she won the russian roulette she was playing. Likelihood doesn't mean it's impossible. You can also have a gun with 5 out of 6 bullet chambers being filled and yet pull the trigger and not shoot someone. Also it's a logical fallacy (=anecdotal fallacy)
5. Yes, the biological clock for men is different. For once men's sperm quality and count decreases later than a womans egg cells. And secondly there are a lot more soft factors that make a man attractive that doesn't coutn for women. For a man it doesn't make a difference if a woman is rich or a poor librarian if he finds her attractive or not. Studies have shown it's a lot different for women and they start rating men way differently on their social and socioeconomical status.
6. Those are generalisations. Of course there are some women who still look stunning and can compete with 20 years olds when they are 40. Most women can not, though. Again, it's about likelihood.
7. No, the anecdotal evidence of some woman attracting younger guys doesn't count. Those guys almost always have either mommy issues, are highly submissive and low in self-esteem and/or just want to learn to sail on an older ship.
8. No, not all men go for 20-23 years old woman. There is something more than physical attractiveness in partner-choice. But that doesn't mean physical attractiveness and our biological urges aren't important. Anyone saying otherwise either is an asexual or is ignoring biological reality.
inb4 some woman attacking me about this. Usually it will be an attack on my success with women being low.
Funny you mention that- Since when, and exactly how, has the character/quality of a man become measured by how successful he is with women? I havn't dated for a while- I suppose under that scope, I suck as a man and suck at life in general... LOL *eyeroll*
That is why women should stop marrying or dating older bastards. So man would not have a chance when it comes to dating a young woman. So we also see how shallow men are. Also many men lose their hair when they are in their 30s and look like caillou haha. Older men have a low quality sperm too. So if you want kids, forget older men in their 30s. I swear men should not whine when young women want tall, handsome and strong men. I am done with these incels. They whine about women how shallow they are but dont look at themself
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Omg so true! They hit on women our age and when we reject them for being unattractive and broke they whine at how shallow we are and how we should love them for themselves 😂 while they want us for our youth and beauty! They are so bitter when a rich old man date a young hot babe, and claim how the girl is shallow! It’s such a double standard that it makes me wanna turn into a lesbian. My reply is that if you want an amber heart looking woman you better have an Elon musk bank account! Or to look like Jonny deep! They go after the prettiest and youngest woman they can get, but God forbid a woman for wanting a tall successful man no matter how attractive or accomplished she is, she should only settle down for loosers to prove her humanity lmao
Oh okay, it's understandable to be pissed at that kind of men to be honest but, like I said in my response, these men actually do women in their 30s a favor by eliminating themselves. That way, women in their 30s have a higher probability of dating men who appreciate them beyond their appearance.
Just say agree brother... unless marriage doesn't vanish completely these hoes gonna take advantage of their pussy beauty n won't create, invent or work hard for living 100% Fact!
Hell no! That's just something people say to make women feel like something is wrong with them, or to make them buy all those beauty products.
I'm 34, and I look and feel better than I did in my 20s! It's all about taking care of yourself and being healthy. Exercise, eat right, take care of your body, don't drink or smoke in excess.
why should men have to be good looking to date them, stop putting these requirements on men and apply them more to yourself, there are no guarantees for anyone, men or women, dating and love isn't a luxury, sometimes you have to accept less, and that's just God's plan, quit acting so entitled when it comes to dating, chances are Mr or Mrs, Perfect isn't going to be what he or she looks like in your head
@JSG4_ tbr some people just have to accept less, if they even want anything to begin with, we're all not promised gold, and should stop acting like we are
1. You can't base outside view of relationships to what the relationship is actually like. Ie. Maybe some of those women ONLY got those men because they are allowing them to sleep around on the side while they remain faithful. This is very common in celeb marriages like this. Are you willing to do that to get that type of husband? Or maybe those men have very strange fetishes ie wear dresses in the home. Ie john travolta. Would you put up with that? Maybe yes maybe no.
2. Its not about whether a woman can get married at age 30 or older, its about choice. In theory an 18 year old girl can choose any man because almost all men would accept an 18 year old. But at 30, over 50% of men would not accept her based on age alone (not looks but age).
3. Many men would like to fuck an older woman but not marry/be serious with. So even though men are interested in a hot 30 or 40 something the amount of rejection these women have to deal with is very high.
4. The saying is 30 but personally i say its more like 20 to 24 depending on the girl. But im not a typical man.
5. You have to understand that age is not the interest of men but it is the driving factor that drives every aspect of a woman that men do want. Men want the most fertility. This is primarily driven by age. Youthful looks (yeah she could be hotter later but the man will be there for it then) driven by age. Less prior sexual history... again age. All 20 year olds as a group have had less sex than all 30 year olds as a group. These are the top factors for most men. All driven by age.
6. The men who deny a woman based on age only do so because they are attracting young women. The fact you dont like bald men is irrelevant. Many young girls do and they are young and so it doesn't matter what you think. Im 32. I've never dated a girl older than 22 in my life. I've fucked plenty of older women but never once thought to date them. So yeah i would say there is a wall because since i can get 18 to 22 year old girls to date easily why would i ever bother with someone worse? Makes no sense.
7. As men we see 30 year old women are desperate. A 31 year old asked me out the other day. She was physically attractive and had a good career. Except she's not highly fertile, she was more attractive young im sure and she has slept with a bunch of dudes most likely. So instead i went out on a date with an 18 year old. Why? Because i can. Lol. Thats what it boils down to.
Has a woman passed her prime by 30 and she is considered old and ugly? no not a at all thats not true and women can still be quite sexy well into their 40s... however, yes at the age of 30 and regardless of how hot the woman is, she will be overlooked by the majority of men looking for a relationship and marriage, i will state the reasons :
1- she's 30 and hasn't found anyone to marry her... what could be wrong with her? did she sleep with plenty of men? is she high maintenance? Does she have issues or a past? most men dont wanna find out why you're 30 and single , cause the reasons are never good and they would much rather move on to find a younger girl.
2- from a biological standpoint, after 35 having kids becomes way harder and more taxing , the best age to have kids is in your twenties and early thrities, if you're metting a guy at 30 it will take another few years to get married and you will easily be 32-33 and having a child will become harder as you age, a problem women in their twenties dont have.
3- the majority of men getting married look for women younger than them and if he's 30 or 31 you're not even on his radar to begin with, so you already lost a considerable amount of men who are looking for a woman 4-6 years younger than they are.
the examples you stated above dont represent the majority of the population, you are talking about celebs, they change partners like we change socks, they get married and divorced and remarry within a year... not the kind of life most people are looking for, average joes (yes even rich guys are still average joes) are looking for a woman in her twenties, with low (preferably non) sexual partners, a good parsonality and attractive enough (Depends on the guys taste), with not unresolved issues with past lovers or family...
you can deny everything i said and everything people say but you're the only one whose gonna suffer, cause as i said , at 30 and no matter how hot you are most men will overlook you if their goal is something serious and marriage.
Yeh- Now you're thinking like a woman- First date? 5th date? She's not interested in getting to know you, she's trying to figure out whats wrong with you. I wish I were wrong. lol
I haven't been here on gag as much as I used to. But I just can't resist having a go at this!
So... No! The wall is not a thing! That term is just a way to help bitter guys to feel a little better about themselves. The idea is to make girl stop having fun being single and go for safe, not fuckboy and boring guy, aka one of them. "I can't get a girl to save my life, but they will end up all alone when they finish having fun, because no guy will want a slut and when they reach 30 their looks start to fade and they won't even be able to get guys anymore! Ahahahah" More a less that with a reaaaaally creepy voice.
Small detail... The hottest coworker I have in my office is 35! And DAM!
Even if their looks fade, lets be real, there are many many guys who will still have her out of sheer desperation! We all know this.
There are women being mothers in their 40s so the biological argument doesn't add up either. I mean if you are 25 and say you don't want a 40 year old women. Sure! Fine! We get that you want someone of your age.
Now if you are 30 and only want girls who are 25 because "OMG the wall" congrats on being a moron!
The wall is most certainly a thing. Cut it out. And stop the bullshit of claiming that any man who has an issue with women is just "an incel that can't get laid so he blames women". Successful men turn down women ALL THE TIME. It's a totally different world when you're successful and have a little weight to you as man. This is what "normal men" who white knight like you don't understand. The men that women actually want don't chase after them. Go to some upscale expensive bars in New York or L. A. it's the WOMEN who chase after the men in these bars. I've seen it a thousand times. It's happened to me in upscale events overseas. And yes.. in that world a woman over 30, especially 35, who isn't a knockout is more or less fucked in terms of finding a guy who's really going to coddle her.
You even see this with celebrity women. Notice 37 and 38 beautiful hollywood actresses always end up with rich 50+ year old dudes? RIch 40 year old millionare men don't go anywhere NEAR 38 year old women.
@ronaldo75 and here comes non agreeing dude number one! I miss coming here for you guys. Oukey let's go! 1. I never called them incels. They might not even be virgins but still be desperate idiots who aren't getting women at the moment. 2. I never said men don't reject women. We do it and do it a lot more than people think. I have done it. I am sure you have done it. Still there are and endless number of desperate guys out there who will have pretty much any girl who looks their way. 3. Women also want the men who approach them! Get that in your head. Women don't just want big time rich guys. I know so so many hot girls married to average guys who made a move on them. 4. Ya in bars I am sure women over 30 don't find a companion for life. In bars almost no one does!!! Come on you don't go to a bar for that! Outside, in the real world, those women can still find guys to have relationships with.
No. what you said was ""I can't get a girl to save my life, but they will end up all alone when they finish having fun, because no guy will want a slut and when they reach 30 their looks start to fade and they won't even be able to get guys anymore! Ahahahah"" Which is just as lame and just as wrong.
@ronaldo75 That is not calling them incels. They might had a girl at some point, but at least at the moment can't. Part of the reason might be clueless notions like the wall.
And @ronaldo75, as far as your name you sound like the help we hire. You have no say in successful men!. I've grown up in money and I've seen men with young girls, but most dont care and the ones they marry are a few years younger, even sometimes the same age! Live irl and stop believing what you see in movies
@SexyAshh I sound like the help you hire? It's funny how stuck up bitch princesses who grow up rich off of mommy and daddy's trash say one thing when a camera is on them but let out that stuck up cunt attitude the second they can hide behind the internet.
A: there's no actual wall at 30 (or anywhere). There are data sets that show average ratings of women (and men) by age, and there's a slow gradual decline, no magic wall. Even when people look at dating preferences, there are little kinks, though you see them more around 18/20 and around 40 or so. But they're kinks in a smooth curve, not huge waterfalls.
B: the difference in attractiveness between the average 22 year old and the average 32 year old is much, much smaller than the difference in attractiveness between a 'low end of average range' and 'high end of average range' woman within an age band. Age factors exist, but individual factors are even bigger, unless we're comparing like an above average 65 year old and an average faced but fit 25 year old, in which case sure, age will dominate.
C: Most men rate women in their early 20s as the most physically attractive … but tend to get along better with women who are closer to them in age. So in practice, men date something in between. Wealthy and charming 40 year old guys can date 22 year old models … but they're more likely to marry a 28-34 year old well educated beauty.
For what it's worth, the decline in looks, from the data, doesn't seem to be as much a slow downward push as much as it is that it's hard to maintain '8+' status with age vs dropping down to 7 or so, and on the other end, more women (and men) dropping to being 'ugly' due to bad hygiene, lifestyle etc. The difference in the 'typical' women as they age is smaller than what's going on in the tails.
You don't understand what the wall is. Its not about looks (at least not entirely), its about fertility and value. An older woman is less able to have children, especially healthy ones, and as such the older she gets the less likely her chances are to get married. That doesn't mean she cannot, that doesn't mean all women after thirty suddenly and magically become thirty, thirty is just the downhill moment where she will never be prettier then that point generally speaking because her body is going to start failing her (skin thins, lips thin, her health will start becoming an issue, sagging starts to occur, it becomes harder to maintain a healthy weight etc.). She can absolutely look very good after the age of thirty if she has good genes and keeps herself active and healthy. But again, that's not what the wall is specifically referring to (otherwise you wouldn't have "cougars" i. e. women who sleep with younger men), its referring to the reduction in fertility and generally speaking usually the behavioral issues that occurred through out her youth. That is if she is single at the age of thirty that is either due to poor choices in men or poor choices in her own behavior i. e. she was "living it up" partying and jumping from guy to guy all of which wears her mind and body down making her ever less desirable. Obviously this doesn't apply to every single situation but it is a general rule of thumb.
@Warmapplecrumble I never said they couldn't? I stated that the probability of issues increases with age and that is a simple fact. I mean children can get cancer, but that doesn't mean your more likely to get it when your older. Same goes for heart failure, sure you can have that happen when your young, but its far more common the older you get.
@Warmapplecrumble The impact of diabetes on fertility is marginal (and manageable if you maintain proper levels of glucose to my understanding), but again, that has nothing to do with biological predisposition to desire younger women who are going to be more likely to survive child birth and be more fertile. Currently in Japan the average age for having children is between 30 and 35. They also have one of the highest rates of autism and things of that nature because as you get older the greater the probability of this. Its not the end of the world, its not going to happen to every single woman but you are increasing your chances, it just is what it is.
@Warmapplecrumble I never said he had to marry an 18 year old and also that's why women generally find older men more attractive then younger because they have more resources at their disposal. Again, your arguing with me as if I have made these rules, I haven't. If I could change the rules I would, I would very much like to not die younger then women yet that is what will inevitably happen. I would like it for men to have inherent value like women do but that will not happen. I would like women to want men even if that man doesn't have money or a good job but that's not going to happen. Just because I am pointing out the reality of the situation and you don't like it doesn't mean its going to go away nor does it mean that you don't also have all of your biological drives that put men at a disadvantage. It, as I said before, is what it is.
Not arguing... I haven't got energy for that. As a woman I wish I got married at 16-18. Being a high risk for pregnancy I need the resources otherwise I will die. I don't know if that makes me a bad person.. resources like food and shelter are more important than money. But sadly in civilisation money equals those resources.
@Warmapplecrumble Not saying it is a bad thing, never argued that, I was just pointing out that biology puts pressure on women one way i. e. men prefer younger women because she is more likely to have healthy children, and it puts pressure on men another way, they need to have greater resources because wives and children are very expensive. Never argued anything, I was pointing out that wanting this to be different is a waste of time because it will never be different.
No not all women hit the wall but the VAST majority do somewhere around 35. They might still be attractive but they are not what they once were. Grey hairs, sagging skin and other things , increased weight, creases and wrinkles. Its natural. Exceptions can be used to fuel perspective but again the norm is men in fact date and marry their same age and younger. Youthful is generally better than aged. Its not rocket science. After 35 your whoowha is considered geriatric for the sake of starting a family and has a ton of related complications. Young hot youthful women simply have a higher social value and I know that might hurt the feelings of the spinsters and cat ladies , Im not your enemy just telling you the truth the softbois and cucks won't. Sure you can find someone to date and who'll bang you and if they are in need or you hit that spot for them they might marry you but they are settling for a chick who chose to ride the carousel and they know it. The ladies spend the best years of youth, hotness, excitment and fun messing around and then they get serious when the curtain starts comming down. And onto the point of the men you named , they are al top teir men who choose low maintenance of ther high maintenance because babes are crazy and the low maintenance girls will be greatful. But make no mistake they have enjoyed the hell out of the super hot young ones and Id bet cold hard cash many of those guys have had cheating secret scandals or continue to enjoy their side piece
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Okay, but I won’t end up single at 30 years old because I missed around but because I’m a med student who have to study more than 8 hours a day to maintain her scholarship, and get a career and I’m waiting mariage to have sex, so I can’t date during these days since most men expect to have sex and refuse to wait!
No I dont think you'll end up single. I think your sacrificing somethings but what your doing has personal and social value. With a decent diet and work out you can delay the wall a while.
No I think choosing to serve the community as an MD is admirable. Its also lucrative and so long as your a nice decent person I think your odds are good. Now the selection of men might be a little weak because the best men were likely locked down. Working on decent fitness ( not starve yourself model crap) would likely be welcome as well . With respect
@Asker, don't lose your self respect for some good for nothing loser :-) And you'll be fine. You won't even have baggege that you deal with! No emotional or otherwise!
More specific answer- A good strong portion of women aren't attractive as it is (nor have they ever been... to me at least, sorry, fact of life.) That being said , some women age very well, some don't seem to age at all, and others- people sometimes will say they're like a fine wine, getting better with time.) Notable examples- Marisa Tomei- Age-54, Kate Beckensale- Age: 46 Dana Delaney Age: 63 ... mary louise parker- Age:55 Debra Messing- Age :51
11/10 would bang any- then take her to Dennys for her senior discount.
in my opinion "the wall" isn't nearly as big of a factor (for women losing attractiveness) as the woman just not taking care of themselves/ aka "letting go of themselves"... Somewhere around 21-25 you'll notice what folks call the Freshman 15 (Or in many many many cases, Freshman 45... Or more yet) This is where they havn't excercised much, if at all, for most of a decade... then they go out and about drinking often- 140 calories a "drink"/beer adds up super fast... or they get a relatively sedentary lifestyle/workplace and get "office ass" (Yes, it does literally flatten a persons ass if they spend most of their waking ours sitting on it.) from the desk chair being sat on very often for hours on end... or they have kids and can't afford time and energy to take care of themselves... 'The wall" does happen for a lotta folks, but more often than not they lost their attractiveness long before 30, then it's only exacerbated by age.
There isn't a "wall", per se. It's more a range, and it varies from woman to woman. But in general, women start to lose their attractiveness in their late 20s to early 30s. There are always a few exceptions, as QA pointed out. Some women stay very attractive much later, most do not.
Age is a two-edged sword for women. In their teens and 20s they really have most of the power in the dating game. Their value in the sexual marketplace is very high, and if they are smart they will take advantage of that while they can and find a good mate during their prime, because the other edge of that sword will begin t cut deep at around age 30 (for most women) and they will find themselves in a difficult position. Most of the good men their own age are taken and the remaining good men suddenly find the tables have turned and they are the ones with the power because women find slightly older men who are stable and established in their careers very attractive, so those older men get to pick from eligible women their own age AND younger, more attractive women.
Women in their 30s and older who are single are in a very difficult position, and they often become angry and bitter. This video does a great job of describing that phenomenon.
I’ve heard this too. But I have a question. What constitutes a good guy? Is it an alpha type guy? Or is it a stable guy, one of those nice guys who is always there for you? I’m having trouble deciding which type of guy is best for me in the long term
@βιυεsκγs I don't think I can answer that question for you. It's something you have to decide for yourself. But I will say that there are some guys who are alphas AND stable, nice guys, too. But I guarantee you they are the ones who get taken early... if they want to be, and the good ones do want to be because they are less self centered and more interested in a solid relationship, a family, etc. Those guys are the ones that are almost impossible to find after age 30, unless they are divorced or widowed or something like that.
I actually never considered an alpha type guy being reliable. That describes my ex though, he was so high quality but we broke up because of distance:( thank you for your input!:)
Young might be hot, but that's going to cost in Drama-Tax.
in my opinion I think it's becoming less of a thing, and I certainly am not claiming this is the prevalent standard... Some women go from their folks keeping them financially comfortable via paying for school/bills, up til when (or even beyond) she gets a significant other with a decently paying job/financial comfort... I've heard folks describe it as monkey-like behavior... not letting go of one vine until s/he has a firm grasp on another (Should add- some men might do the same- I'm not picking on women in general but rather a specific sub group... Most have at least a decent work ethic,) ... There's nothing wrong with wanting financial stability, but I mean to point out that it would be wise to be wary of someone like this as they might not handle things quite as well...
. Dating 30 somethings, they know shit and are much more likely to have a well rounded/level head on her shoulders through more down-to-earth experience (Work ethic, self reliance, a sense of financial responsibility (IE probably had a job that paid diddly squat so she doesn't like the idea of spending $7 for a coffee or $200 for a haircut/nails) ... knows how things work, won't pass the buck to you because "it's a mans job to do it." (IE keeping the cars maintained, putting up Christmas lights, fixing things, whatever) can actually put the cell phone away for a while).
Another perk/reason 30 somethings are better- Ask most folks and you'll find a general consensus- Bedroom? Yeah, they know what they're doing... It's not their first rodeo. . Giddyup.
Best policy- assume everyone is a dirtbag until you've seen for yourself otherwise. That way you won't be surprised.
You said it yourself. What DOES constitute a good guy? in my opinion a lot of it is your own preference.
Then you get into MOTIVATIONS for "good" behavior. My whole life I thought I was a good guy in a white hat... Funny as you age, you learn more about yourself. More recently I've challenged my opinion of myself via trying to get to the root of WHY I do nice things. Even further, is it even POSSIBLE that a person does something altruistically without (even a) subconscious ulterior motive?
I've questioned what motivations for such behavior and I can't quite determine whether or not I'm trying to get something out of it, even if that's just a reassurance/sense of security from thinking I did something nice. (In other words- I only do nice things so I don't worry about being a shitty person.)
Am I super nice because I'm nice? Or am I just a p*ssy who avoids confrontation through amiability? Do I do nice things so I feel better about things I've screwed up, a sort of penance?
@TheMadAsshatter85 Thanks for your comments. I agree with all of that, but it really doesn't address any of the realities I wrote about. The fact is that in general guys are attracted to youth and beauty, and women lose their beauty, and thus their "market value", with age. That's just a fact of human nature.
My comments were really more directed at women than men. I think women are mislead a lot about what to expect if they wait until after 30 to settle down with a mate. No offense to you, but most of the best guys are already taken by that age, and it is definitely a buyers' market for the good ones who remain single after 30. It definitely works in the favor of men, not women. That was my point.
I seek out women in their thirties. They’re usually physically/emotionally ripe. When I say ripe I mean mature.
Girls my age act like girls. Immature, bratty, emotional to a fault, etc. They might be physically attractive but their bodies aren’t finished developing.
But from what I experience, women in their 30s usually have it together emotionally/mentally. They can still be emotionally driven but the bs I’ve put up with has been very minimal. They don’t lead me on or beat around the bush. In terms of looks, they usually have weight in all the right places (breasts, hips and thighs.) By 30 they know what they want in a man physically, sexually and relationship-wise. Younger girls are still figuring themselves out usually.
Hit the wall is what those men who only see women as objects think. They want those young and “fresh” girls. It’s extremely weird. If that’s the guy you want, have at it. But trust me there’s men out here who have their head on straight
I think to say “hit the wall” is the wrong idiom to use. Anyhow, yes and no. After 30, a woman is just beginning her life. Why you might ask? Because it took all 30 years to find out who she is, what she’s capable of and to understand about life through trial and errors and she has experienced a lot and hopefully gained wisdom through it all. maturity is very attractive even if you’re not sure why you’re attracted to her until you get to know her. A woman in her 30’s and beyond is like no other. You just know she can handle life’s challenges and you feel safe in her company. You know she will take care of your needs on a subconscious level. As far as looks, it depends what her life journey was like and it shows through her eyes, wrinkles, face, warts and all and that might even be the deciding factor if you want to know her further.
Honestly, the times I was forced to listen to this old tale, it usually came from a dude who -having realised he’s got zero worth or appeal- was hoping to ground me and other women with his creepy prophecies. And sure some women fall for it but plenty of them don’t let it get to their head. My own ma married someone 8 years her junior and even now has men continuously hitting on her and she is 45. Sure, people don’t maintain their good looks into their 30’s/40’s, but that applies to both men or women. Honestly, this isn’t the 18th Century, most 20 year old girls don’t fantasise getting with a bolding, viagra-popping 40-year-old. Some do, sure, but often there are ulterior motives behind these kind of relationships, as evidenced by the age difference at marriage : divorce rates.
It’s largely a revenge fantasy that is used to scare attractive women into settling for less. It bs. At 35, I’m in the best shape I’ve ever been and my fertility is great. Younger men often tell me they’d marry me in a heartbeat if they had the chance.
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I think it’s very clear. Most men hate women, especially men who frequent in majority male forums (r/incel, bodybuilder forum, etc.). All they see in a woman is a cumbasket, a mattress, a baby-making machine, an accessoire, a trophy, a cheap maid, cook and cleaner. They can‘t get the woman of their dreams the normal way so they have to fall back on psychological warfare. They try and partly succeeded in making us women believe that we will be expired goods the day we turn 30. That if we haven‘t married by then we never will. That we will turn from a hot desired woman to a old hag overnight.
That men only check for blood young women because muah biology and evolution and the only men available to us will be bottom of the barrel men (they are talking about themselves, they just haven‘t figured it out yet).
Their whole strategy falls apart if the men on the top don’t play along. Prince Harry, James Rothschild, Zuckerberg, Bezos... Let‘s be honest: both Marla and Melanie Trump were trophy wives and they were both > 30 when they married Trump. You don‘t have to be blood young to get a successful man. Most successful men wouldn‘t even want a child bride. They didn‘t become this wealthy and successful by thinking with their penis primarily and only.
To cut it short: Men have spend centuries to convince women that we will die alone when we aren‘t married by 12/25/30. This way men (even broke men) had a large pool of girls and women willing to marry their pathetic asses. When child marriages became socially unacceptable their pool of available girls and women shrinked. When it was socially encouraged for women to go to college and work their pool of available women shrinked even more. Now you have society telling women it‘s ok not to be married by 30 and all those wealthy and powerful men marrying woman older than 30 and even older than themselves which leads to the pool of available women for regular and broke men to shrink even more. To regular and incel men, men like Bezos are traitors. The reason why it isn‘t as easy to manipulate women into marriage anymore.
Lol. What’s so funny is that one of the few examples they had of a successful man who date younger women is Leonardo DiCaprio, cause he only date women younger than 25. I don’t dislike him or anything and he’s a skilled actor, but he isn’t recognized for his brain, since he even said during an interview that his camarades named him Leonardo retardo cause he was always quite slow to understand things! It’s totally his right to love younger women as long as they’re legal, but it’s so funny to see all these incels naming him as a role model, while no matter how hot he was, no sane smart woman would give him a chance if he wasn’t a wealthy actor. A lot of young blondes models he dated were actually the ones who ended their relationships with him, probably cause he wasn’t that entertaining, and that they didn’t truly get anything by dating him beside some fame. I am not judging him anymore, but as a 20 years old woman who’s always called pretty, i will be digusted if a man hit on me, because of my age or if I found out that all his exes were the same age as me, cause it shows how he isn’t mature enough to handle a woman his age
That’s just not true. The first picture would be accurate of a girl aged 13-17 maybe. The second would be accurate if a woman from the ages of 17/18-25. After that they begin to whither and that is a fact. If you prefer a withering flower though, great for you. .
That is your opinion, which is fine, but please refrain from treating it as though your opinion is universal.
Everyone has their own opinions on the matter, and in my opinion, a woman's prime is in her thirties and forties as that is usually when she matures as a woman.
Yes but we retain out virility for much longer and women know this instinctively, so they don’t typically see men as becoming less attractive overall when they are older. Not old, (some women do like old men which i find weird) but older.
No, not at all. I think a lot of women look great in their 30's. I come from a family full of late bloomers on both sides, where most of them felt they looked their best in their 30's or even right around 40, and I've seen the pictures and it's true. Of course, everyone peaks at different ages. Not everyone ages the same, so I don't think there's a specific age where people's looks start to go downhill.
I actually think most people look better at least in their late 20's or early 30's rather than younger. A lot of early to mid 20's people girls don't look much different from teenagers (myself included; I'm 24 and routinely get told I look high school age or around 18, and many of my friends still look a lot like they did when we were in high school/in our late teens). Not that looking young is a bad thing, but it's still before the prime to me.
No. There is no Wall! It's a myth by bitter men who isn't having sex like they want to. It hurts women. Their jerks. Their judgmental jerks who doesn't deserve her. Then get jealous when she does find somebody who does want her.
No I don’t believe that. If you’re ugly then you’re ugly at any age. Good looking women tend to be good looking way into their 40s. I mean look at Adriana Lima the Queen! She’s 38 and still out there getting guys.
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Asker
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IKR. Too bad that she married an ugly looking Serbian player who cheated on her while she was even richer than him.
Women hit a biological wall at around 30. There isn’t really much room for debate there. It becomes much riskier for them to have kids. If you’re just a shallow thot though, then sure, take the risk and hope you’ll be able to stay decently attractive into your 30’s and 40’s so you can keep having flings with random dudes or whatever other silly reason you may have.
Lol. You’re talking as if a 30 years old Victoria secret’s model gave you a chance, while you’re just accosted by insecure 25 years old women. I’m a hot 20 years old woman and I’d prefer to burn but to fuck with an old pig like you no matter how much money you have
I’ve actually been abstaining from dating for the last two years because I intend to move overseas for work after I graduate this fall and I don’t care for casual dating or sex. I’ve been in one relationship and was the dumper. I haven’t been on a ton of dates because I’m pretty picky, but I tend to be the one not wanting another date. I can only recall one time that the girl didn’t want to go on any more dates and it was because she wasn’t comfortable with waiting to have sex as she wasn’t looking for anything serious.
It’s not about putting them down. If anything, it’s about showing them to not take the beauty that they have right now for granted because it will fade.
And also that even if they don’t want kids, they will when they begin to approach thirty. Their biology demands it of them, baby fever is a real thing, so it’s better to try to settle down with partner in advance of that so that you aren’t filled with regrets as most women who follow that path are.
I’m a 20 years old medical student so I won’t have time to date unless I will be 30! I am always accosted by men, but I can’t date them cause I have to study at least 8 hours a day but ofc men don’t give a shit about that lmao!
Lol. I choosed that because many women who choose a man over their career end up being dumped anyway! They give their youth to their husbands or boyfriends, and they end up being unhappy or they get dumped when they reach the age of 44, and end up being a single mother with an ex husband who refuse to pay child support! Do you truly believe that women won’t be happy if they had a man who will provide for them in exchange of love and a relationship? If they have that they will be called gold diggers! And you men are the first to say «mmh okay you’re hot and young but what do you bring in the table?» Where the fuck do you want them to get their money if they can’t work beside marrying a rich man? Why can men have both? A career and a family! A career is made when you’re in your 20’s, successful men sacrifice relationships to be successful on their 30’s and 40’s and expect a 20 years old woman but a successful 30 years old woman can’t even expect a guy who’s 35? Is that what you meant?
@Chris4744 Wow all your "facts" on women's aging and their biology is quite laughable! I am 35 and I do NOT have your so called BABY FEVER! I had that maybe in my late 20s lol. Also, I think I look damn sexy for my age! I'm in no desperate need for a man thank you very much! I'm fullfilled in my life. And if I want to spread my genes, then I can get a donor in no time!
I’m not saying to be a gold digger either at all. I’m saying it’s possible to have a job making a decent income as we as a husband (who would hopefully make a decent income as well).
The most successful men that I know did not sacrifice relationships for their career. They learned to manage both. If you want both, MAKE IT WORK. Is it easy for men? No! Is it trickier for women because they’re the ones getting pregnant? Sure is! But if you want both, then figure it out or pursue another job. How high maintenance are you that you think you need that much money? If your standard of living is that high, then accept it or lower them.
Also I’m sorry you think all women get dumped at 44, but that’s just not the case. Women actually file for something like 80% of divorces.
If you want someone that will be loyal, be patient in finding them. I don’t want to marry someone foolishly and then get dumped later on and have my children ripped from me, so i’m waiting patinetly and not fooling around with “fuck girls” or anything. I want someone virtuous, so i’ve been working to become virtuous myself instead of giving up.
@sueanon84 You just added anecdotal evidence to support the fact which i stated by saying that you got baby fever in your late 20’s, which is when baby fever occurs. Congrats on being childless and single at 35? I’m sure that’s going to be very fulfilling in the long term?
@Chris4744 Yes it's not that bad. I was in an abusive relationship not too long ago (two years ago to be exact). I was 32. He was 40 with an ex wife and a 9 year old. I did not want to be step mom already when I hadn't even had any of my own. But I did regret breaking up with him because I did love him. I loved him a lot and it was one of thee hardest decisions I have had to make in my life! Currently, it's actually okay to be childless at 35. I am caring for the house that I will inherit from my parents when they pass away and I am a caretaker to the family dog that my brother bought but decided to abandon when he moved in with his friend in an apartment last year. He has a girlfriend right now and he's turning 40 this October. I didn't date because like so many other women, I concentrated on going to college in my 20's and there was a lot of competition for even menial minimum wage jobs back in the 2000's! I was also scared of being left pregnant or getting an std/sti! I guess you can say I was a "bit" paranoid back then, but better safe than sorry was my motto! Even now!
I agree with that motto. That’s why I’m abstaining from sex, but I would still very much like to have a family one day, so I of course would like to date and sooner is better than later.
Asker clearly you're talking to a man who hasn't had sex and he gets mad at women his age choosing attractive men over him so he needs to inform everyone about this wall and hope some women would be desperate enough to date him lmao
You’re right that I haven’t had sex. I’m waiting until marriage. I’m celibate by choice. I have had oral sex several time with several different girls (regrettably) and all of them wanted to go further. Not that I’m a huge ladykiller, but i’m certainly not some incel who can’t get laid so that’s not what’s motivating me. I’m not judging women at all, i’m just not going to spare them the truth because it hurts. I wish women didn't hit the wall at 30. I’d rather marry someone who’s physical beauty will last forever, but that’s just life
I’m also abstaining from dating until I move overseas in a few months, so that’s really not the issue. Not that I don’t want a relationship though. I’d love to find someone good for me, but not 3 months before I plan on moving to another continent.
@Chris4744 I'm sorry Chris but that's where you missunderstood me and I would like to clear this up! I HAD baby fever in my 20's and younger but when I hit 34/35 and I found myself single after an almost two year relationship did not work out, I found the idea of having a baby and that white picket fence getting less and less apealing, but it doesn't mean it's zero! ... So I think 30 is still very young! If your 30 year old girfriend wanted a baby, then by all means don't prevent it just because you say she's hit this "wall"!
... I think most people have children because 1 they are always curious what their children will look like mixed with their lover's genes 2 it's instinct and we have what's called "the selfish gene"! We always think we have the best genes of all compared to others (me included in this! hehe!) and therefore want to SPREAD 'EM!
I understood the thing about baby fever and that you lost that feeling after a bit. I’m glad you’re satisfied with your life, but you have indeed hit a reproductive wall. It’s risky to have kids after 30. That’s part of why you stopped having baby fever. You may be content with not having kids, but that doesn’t change the fact that you’ve hit the wall.
@Chris4744 I don't care about hitting a wall. I don't really date anymore, I have seen more jerks than I would have liked! I can have children through adoption. Some people don't mind adopting. My aunt had twin boy and girl in 2012 with her second marriage at 49 years old! She did it through IVF though. So the wall you are referring to that you hope I'm scared of, I'm not! Why should I be scared of it? I am actually GLAD that I made it to this age without dying or suffering from any truly traumatizing or debilitating illness! Some people aren't so lucky! ... Is sex all there is to life? ! For you and a lot of people? !
Plus, I can always lie about my age ;) I look younger than my age anyway! So no I'm not insulted about hitting this imaginary wall! I am not on menopause so I think I am still fertile, just probably less so.
@Chris4744 Also my mom had me at 31 and I have seen others around 33 (but still in their 30s) have children. I have a cousin and an uncle that were both born when their mothers were 40 back in 1977 and 1988.
Yeah you maybe still COULD have a child, but the rates of all kinds of health issues for infants increase drastically after 30, pregnancy issues for the mother increase, childbirth difficulties increase, etc.
I’m not criticizing your life in any way. If you don’t care about “hitting the wall”, more power to you. I just think that the majority of women would be happier later in life if they manage to settle down with a good parter in their teens or twenties. Maybe not all thiugh I don't know
Two things when it comes to the wall. A female’s sex appeal, and her fertility.
When it comes to sex appeal. Girls can hit the wall at an early age. They’re called 49ers. “A 4/10 that thinks she’s a 9/10”. A majority of 49ers are post wall women. These are your teachers, women that work in HR, front desk receptionist, etc..
When it comes to Fertility. A female’s fertile years is 16-24. After this age, her eggs start dying or malfunctioning. It’s been scientifically PROVEN that a woman who’s over 30 has higher chances of giving birth to a baby with Down syndrome. Statistics: utswmed.org/medblog/age-matters-down-syndrome/
Everyone gets less attractive with age. While I do agree that the guys who say that stuff are just coping. Everyone has their own set of standards for looks/status, whatever.
Well, me personally, if I was in my 30's I'd rather date a 34 year old than a 20 year old. More mature, probably less shallow, and more put together.
People just need to stop being so thirsty for the opposite gender to like them. Reality is this...
You could have everything else going for you that you could think of, but if your not attractive to someone, it is what it is, you will never be attractive to them. Just live life, take your multi's and be happy.
Consider the opinions from men on here are all losers and alone.
Besides that fun fact, depending on your lifestyle, you can be a certain age and appear much younger. My moms in her 60s and looks like she's in her 30s.
If you decide to get fat and let yourself go, yes you will be unappealing and look old.
Just maintain your sh*t, and you'll maintain youth
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Oh look! Another looser disliked your opinion lmaoo
your mom looks 30 to YOU because you're not trying to bang her. men will notice the difference between a 30 yo and a 60 yo. if you think men are losers and alone for telling the truth just look at your pictures and see the difference and try to picture how many more wrinkles and stretch marks you're going to have in 6 years. that is if you haven't lied about your age
@morrowlow and this one takes cake for biggest loser. can't even read these joke comments. You’re 23 by the way, time to get rid of the spongebob fetish, might help you actually score a girl in general, not that youve ever had one. Thats why u continue to spew advice, because u seem like such a ladies man IRL😄😂 get real!.✌️
well some girls have a sense of humor unlike some people and get the sponge bob pic. but your right. soon i will be as OLD as you are and when i get to that old age there won't be time for fun and jokes. i should choose a better profile pic to attract more people. i was going to put the picture of a set of tits and a pair of legs on my profile but then i thought people might think i'm a slut so i went with the sponge bob
Proceeds to change your pic i see, awwh someone wasn't triggered.😘 its called a bathing suit babe. Most peopoe go outside and use one in the sulmertime. Im sure that dosnt make sense to you as you're sitting inside playing dungeons and dragons while soongebob plays in the background. Sounds 2 exciting. Now im bored, and if i wouldn't talk to you irl, which I KNOW i wouldn't, i definatly dont want to talk to you on here. So bye now kid✌️😘❤️
@SexyAshh I think it’s very clear. Most men hate women, especially men who frequent in majority male forums (r/incel, bodybuilder forum, etc.). All they see in a woman is a cumbasket, a mattress, a baby-making machine, an accessoire, a trophy, a cheap maid, cook and cleaner. They can‘t get the woman of their dreams the normal way so they have to fall back on psychological warfare. They try and partly succeeded in making us women believe that we will be expired goods the day we turn 30. That if we haven‘t married by then we never will. That we will turn from a hot desired woman to a old hag overnight.
That men only check for blood young women because muah biology and evolution and the only men available to us will be bottom of the barrel men (they are talking about themselves, they just haven‘t figured it out yet).
Their whole strategy falls apart if the men on the top don’t play along. Prince Harry, James Rothschild, Zuckerberg, Bezos... Let‘s be honest: both Marla and Melanie Trump were trophy wives and they were both > 30 when they married Trump. You don‘t have to be blood young to get a successful man. Most successful men wouldn‘t even want a child bride. They didn‘t become this wealthy and successful by thinking with their penis primarily and only.
To cut it short: Men have spend centuries to convince women that we will die alone when we aren‘t married by 12/25/30. This way men (even broke men) had a large pool of girls and women willing to marry their pathetic asses. When child marriages became socially unacceptable their pool of available girls and women shrinked. When it was socially encouraged for women to go to college and work their pool of available women shrinked even more. Now you have society telling women it‘s ok not to be married by 30 and all those wealthy and powerful men marrying woman older than 30 and even older than themselves which leads to the pool of available women for regular and broke men to shrink even more. To regular and incel men, men like Bezos are traitors. The reason why it isn‘t as easy to manipulate women into marriage anymore.
@asker i can second that!. All i date is very successful men, extremly attractive and their girlfriends before me/ after me. Always older!! I've seen it time and time again, and have many older successful male friends. Women shouldn't be worried in the leAst. Like i said, just men who can't get women in general taking out their issues on the web. Well i actually have a full on life irl, I've seen it and know it. So they can troll all they want, my opinion stays the same. And im glad you can completly agree. Smart lady❤️
Lol. Just another thing. Leonardo DiCaprio the guy who only dated women under the age of 25 while he’s 44, even said once during an interview that he was a real dumbass in school, and that his classmates named him Leonardo retardo. So it’s funny when men believe that he’s acting like a smart successful man by only dating women half his age, while he’s not a role model either. Believe it or no, no matter how hot he was, no sane smart woman would date him if he became a trash guy or a janitor instead of a famous actor. Most of the young vs models he dated were the ones who stoped their relationship with him
I don’t say it’s bad that he love younger women, as long as their legal it’s okay. I jut say that dumbass men believe that dating women under 25 they way he’s doing is a big sign of success lmao
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