Do you agree with Matthew Hussey on who should pay on the first date?

[Anonymous]

I strongly suggest you all watch this video, it’s seriously good advice and insight

https://youtu.be/71o3hq6iSPM

[Obtuse]

I think it depends on the social dynamics of dating and dominance. If a boss offers to take his workers out to dinner, then there is a clear leader here and someone following his lead. So I consider him a cheapskate if he doesn't pay due to that kind of leadership dynamic. As a leader, he gets a bit more say in terms of where to go as well as some power over his workers. If it's two colleagues hanging out where no one is following the other's lead, then it makes sense to me to split.

So I think it depends on whether the dating social dynamic resembles the boss taking out a worker for dinner or two workers mutually agreeing on having dinner at a place, e. g.

In my case, it's absolutely clear at a glance that I'm taking a more leadership dynamic to dating. I'm also arranging the entire date early on, not even asking the girl where she wants to go. She's following my lead, and so I consider it a fair price in exchange to pay. If it wasn't like that and I asked her where she wants to go, and we mutually agreed, and no one was leading anyone (or we took turns leading each other), then I think splitting makes sense again.

[Obtuse]

I don't agree with the general idea that who asks the other out should pay. Since if a friend or colleague asks me to go out, and I agree, then it seems appropriate for me to pay my share. It shouldn't matter who asks. But if the dynamic has a clear leader/host and a clear follower/guest, then that's a very different power dynamic from people on equal footing deciding together where to go. In that case, the boss/host should pay.

[Obtuse]

I had this cheapskate boss one time who insisted on me going to a Thai restaurant with him while I was busy and wanted to just keep working and grab some fast food. He kept saying while I politely suggested that I wanted to keep working that it's the most amazing restaurant. So I caved into the pressure, went with him, and he didn't pay for my order! And that makes him a cheapskate in my opinion because he had that sort of dominant position over me. This wasn't a colleague. He was leading and I was following his lead.

[Obtuse]

In my case, I always want that dominant position in courtship. I want to be the leader, protector, provider. So I favored women who followed my lead, seemed to respond well to me taking charge of the situation, and so I show those qualities right from the beginning to lead, provide, protect, with a fairly dominant stance and approach to dating.

[Obtuse]

Now on the notion of simps, I do agree some guys have a submissive demeanor about them. They seem to pay out of desperation or something, doormat way, pussy-whipped types into the relationship. But there is also a dominant way to be kind -- protector as opposed to asskisser. And I favor that dominant way.

[ManOnFire]

Dude, I just about never watch the videos people post in their questions on GaG, but I gotta say I actually watched the whole 4 minutes of his video and he made some great points that I really do agree with.

These days I'm actually coming to that point myself too where I think I don't really believe in a guy paying for the whole date either. When you think about it, what is the difference between that and paying for an hour or two with an escort? Women hate it if a man goes to one, but act just like one when they feel like it.

Also, women are being very hypocritical when you think about the situation: they expect the guy to pay for them on not just dates, but to also give them money for other things when they're in an actual relationship, but then think it's wrong for a guy to expect sex after 1 or 2 dates. So I'm cheesy if I don't pay for you on a date, but then sleazy if I do pay for you but want sex later too. But it's not cheesy if she expects free meals and gifts. So yeah, I think this who-pays-on-a-date thing has kind of changed my perspective lately.

[ChgzDaniel]

I've never dated so take my opinion with a grain of salt, I met my boyfriend at 16 and we just started being girlfriend and boyfriend without the dating process. We made a baby by accident (I was young and didn't think it would happen to me) so I moved in with him and he's always paid for everything because I've never had a job. I repay him with my love, my housework, my cooking, my ability to make and raise children.
However, if things were different and I was on a date with someone, I would always offer to pay for myself. Always. If he didn't offer to pay though, that wouldn't leave a good lasting impression on me. I'm into chivalry, I'm not the kind of person who dates for sex, I date because I expect to spend my whole life with this person. I'm easy to impress as long as you put in the effort and show earnest intentions. If you don't pay for the date then I wouldn't feel like you were that interested, I'm not going to waste my time with someone that's not 100% into me. I'd understand if they didn't have the money, but it's the little things that keep me coming back.

[BlackRoseFairy]

Without watching the video, here's what I do.
Whenever I have been out on a date I was prepared to pay for whatever I take. So I wouldn't take something I couldn't pay because "he has to pay"
So when the date is over I always take out my wallet to pay my share. If he insists on paying I let him do it and on a next date (if there's one) I offer to pay by saying something like "you paid last time, now it's my turn" or "this one is on me"
But I never take it for granted that he should pay.

[Cynicaldreamer]

I love this guy (and his accent).

Look, it's simple: whoever asks out the other person, they should offer to pay, guy or girl!!! Hell it's the 21st century: if I want to ask a guy out and pay for his dinner? I will!

However, if it's that big of a deal, especially for men that insist on paying, I usually offer to split the bill or pay my own way beforehand so he knows I'm not expecting him to pay. Or I offer to buy the next meal- which implies I want to see him again 😊

[OlderAndWiser]

A thoroughly considered strategy! I like!

[Thomas__Shelby]

Exactly what I thought as well. People are so eager to say “Split the bill”, or “a man should always pay for it”, but in reality, paying for the bill just means you’re that more willing to invest in the relationship. And since the person who initiated the date is the one who started it, it usually falls to them to pay for the night as well.

[coachTanthony]

-----------------I have posted this video probably over 30 times answering the question about who pays on the first date. I totally agree with this guy.

[OlderAndWiser]

My generation has several decades of expecting the guy to pay and that doesn't bother me. Nothing is going to change for us.

[RedOHara]

His line at 2:30 is amusing. When I invite my best friends out for dinner it's my treat. They're taking time out of their schedules to meet up. It's a bit rude to invite someone out & then expect them to help pay the bill. Keep it simple > if you can't or won't pay for their meal don't bother inviting them.

On dating the same should apply. The inviting party (man or woman) pays for the invited (man or woman)'s meal. A simple "you get the next one" can defuse any conflict over who pays the 1st bill & implies a continued interest in dating.

[hellionthesagereborn]

I agree to an extent. I think that their is something to men paying HOWEVER that means that since he has to be traditional and pay she has to be traditional too i. e. she has to earn that investment by being feminine, by not sleeping around (because how the hell is it right that I have to pay for her time but some random guy didn't even have to pay to have sex with her? That says a lot about how she sees me, namely that I am a free meal to her and nothing more). So she has to invest back in to him, and like he said she needs to contribute, maybe not with money (although if she NEVER pays for anything that would probably bother me), but she has to contribute with something or she is just using the guy and she doesn't deserve to be in a relationship (because its not about her getting all the advantages, its about equal investment in the other person and the relationship).

[Izumiblu]

The question us is who pays on the first date. Not who pays for every date or the balance of a relationship and it makes no statement about any of the remainder of any dating or relationship.

from this context a first date generally means two people who are somewhat familiar or vaguely familiar with them. They are not my best friend and it would be an insult to my best friend to assume that I’d treat a near stranger the same way I’d treat my friend. They don’t deserve to be treated that well

a first date to me will have some formality to it guest and host. The host covers the tab.

Now the fact that someone thinks that the whp pays on a single date is so highly important that it warrants consideration of fairness and discussion about responsibilities for the duration of a relationship well. I’m there for a single date. Not a life commitment. Let’s see if we can get along for a few hours then we can worry about the other stuff later.

[BeMuse]

He’s got everything correct except if you go on a date and he doesn’t pay, he wasn’t taught right. He talks about double standards and then he creates his own. Other than that he’s on point. I don’t know who he is, but he sure hires a lot of prostitutes to attend his speeches.

[Ellie-V]

No. I feel that whoever asked should pay.
Abd I already know that most guys are usually the ones to take initiative but I’m only referring to myself, no matter who I’m with and I’m VERY straightforward when I want something. I may ask, I may not. I don’t keep score but I wouldn’t say it’s completely unbalanced.

[Anonymous]

It's really pretty ridiculous that we are still having this debate in 2020.

There is ZERO reason why the man should still be expected to pay on the first date... well, zero reason beyond female hypocrisy, entitlement and sexism. To be honest it really just makes all women look bad.

And no, the person who asks should NOT be expected to pay. That is the dumbest part of all of this. Saying the person who asks should pay essentially guarantees it will always be the guy. If anything, the other person should pay since the one who asked had to put himself out there and risk rejection to set up a date with you. They shouldn't be penalized for that by having to also pay for your time together. Sounds more like an escort arrangement if you ask me.

Ladies, at this point you're just embarrassing yourself. You can and should do better.

[Hot_potato123]

Get over yourself. Yes it’s 2020 and we have come along way from discrimination to equality but it’s never going to be perfect most girls are probably going to expect that the guy pay because of Hollywood’s depiction of romance and chivalry, society isn’t just going to magically change itself I myself also believe that whoever asks should be the one too pay because they are the ones who put themselves out their and planned it, you saying that the other person should pay instead of the person who asked seems weird it’s like throwing your friend a surprise birthday party and having the friend pay for it. Also just because you believe differently doesn’t mean you can make others feel bad for the way they think and make them want to change their ideas and opinions and before you say well what did you just do by saying everything before this? I wasn’t putting you down I was showing you how your logic doesn’t make sense

[Opinion Owner]

@Hot_potato123 Grow up little girl. You're just depending the sexism and entitlement of modern women, which is disgusting.

[Hot_potato123]

*defending

[Hot_potato123]

Also I’m not defending I’m just saying that you thinking that sexism is going to disappear in a 10-5 years limit is insane i mean how long did it take for ALL men to be equal? And even then we still have racism today, ill admit that its a lot lower but we still have it. Yes we can do better but so should you. Discrimination and equalization oof any sort will not happen at the rate people are pushing for, its unreasonable. Yes we should still be pushing for it but not demanding. Also what I’m doing is not disgusting, what I’m doing is teaching a grown man about how society works and how what he is saying is illogical. And don’t think that because i am a “little girl” that i won't stand up for myself and show up a grown man

[Hot_potato123]

* of

[Opinion Owner]

@Hot_potato123 You haven't shown anyone up; you've just shown your ignorance, immaturity and sexism. Using Hollywood to justify your sexism is about as moronic as one can be. Grow the fuck up little girl.

[asomeone]

I think who pays on the first date can end up serving as a proxy for a whole lot of values and beliefs that are unlikely to change over the course of a relationship. If you insist on paying (to be chivalrous) and your date views that societal convention as a sexist relic of the patriarchy, you probably weren't all that compatible to begin with.

[mattdzz]

I've been listening to Matthew Hussey for a long time, and I can say that most of what he says is spot on, but he definitely plays the part of a more understanding guy, which many girls will not always find.

[mattdzz]

I just watched it, and it's insane how many women want their cake and to eat it too.

[Screenwriter]

Hey, I'm from a different generation enTIRELY and I agree with this guy. Gotta relate this from a friend I love dearly. Back in college we had a discussion about her going on dates with guys she didn't like that much and she said and I quote, "Free meal." I was completely shocked and told her so. She was beautiful to my cute though, so she got away with this, at the time. I wasn't raised to pay for me, but I was raised to be fair. Coffee dates where each pays and early dates where each pays, makes sense for me. If you continue to date, then you might have to parse out how much and where you're going to go as per limits of each one's budget... But what Hussey says is imperative on women understanding what financial bargain they're getting themselves into: A man paying for your time is usually a man paying for a prostitute. Contribute what you can. If a guy insisted on paying for my dinner, I always said, look, I'll leave the tip... If he wrestled me to the ground, I let it go. But most guys seemed HAPPY that I offered and did it. Hussey notes that too. Don't be a "free meal" woman. Nothing is free and if a man is ALWAYS paying, he's going to expect to be PAID BACK. Don't get yourself into that bargain, because, it ain't.

[GloriaMc]

Ah reminds me of seeing lovers arguing who's to pay lol I was listening can't help it lol and I think wow if their arguing about the soda drinks for now how much more they could argue if they have to spend serious amount 😂 ok he said its not about the money but he is counting contribution lol I rather won't go to date if we just arguing instead of having fun 😂

[ImSparkly]

Thats why I have liked first dates over coffee. No pressure, there's a reason to leave at the end, and its cheap. I can get my own, and most guys dont know what to think when I ask for a 24 oz extra dark drip, black.

[Twalli]

My view is the guy should always be able and willing to pay for the date. He shouldn't be expected to nowadays, but it shows lack of commitment if he can't. The only exception I would make is if the date requires cash and all he has is a card. I don't think you should always expect to have enough cash on hand for every date.

[Jonny_]

Meh, somewhat... it shouldn't be an expectation for the guy to pay but it should be offered simply out of courtesy especially if you arranged the date. I'm traditional by default, sometimes I feel like I might be doing it to assert my maleness.

[Gatman34]

It’s should be 50/50. The argument that the person who asks should pay is bullshit because we all know guys ask majority of time so that’s just women being assholes. Guys who pay are simps who give women too much control and they are wasting money

[Anonymous]

I think he makes some good points, but I have a slightly different take. I always offer to pay for dates; it has been my experience that a woman who doesn't let me pay for a date is either a control freak or she's not interested in me. Either way, it's not a good sign. Most women, deep down, are old-fashioned and prefer a chivalrous gentleman, whether they admit it or not. Whether their behavior towards the man justifies such treatment is for a separate discussion.

[LoU_Hades]

After 4 months, who didn't pay lies on the top.
First date, it belongs to usual shit tests how my date reacts to the bill question. Fortunately girls don't see in me a suitor

[Apple1996]

I'm very traditional so I expect the man to pay. I'm not even gonna offer because before going out I'd made sure he knows that he is taking me on the date, I'm not taking him.

[Daniela1982]

So you are saying all women want to be equal with a man unless it doesn't suit them? I think if I was a guy and you told me that I'd leave you at home where you can watch TV for free and have a TV dinner.

[Apple1996]

@Daniela1982 I dont want to be equal at all. It really doesn't matter for me anyways since I'm already married and dont date anymore. When I did my husband happily paid for all the dates😊

[Daniela1982]

Well obviously he thought you were worth it so it all worked out.

[hellionthesagereborn]

So what are you doing for him then? If your traditional then that means you have to be actually traditional not just traditional when it suits you (as most women are). That is have you slept around with other guys (if so that isn't traditional and in fact what your telling him is he has to pay for something you where willing to give away for free to some one else)? Are you cooking for him (if not your not traditional)? When in a sexual relationship with him are you having sex with him every single time he wants it (because if not your not traditional)? Are you cleaning (because if not your not traditional)? Are you deferring to him i. e. he is the leader (if not you are not traditional)? If you say no to any of these your not traditional and what your asking for is to be allowed to use and exploit a man for your own personal gain with complete disregard to his needs and wants which is a scummy thing to do (and quite frankly if this is the case you don't deserve to be with some one because you cannot see them as anything other then a paycheck and/or tool for you to use).

[Apple1996]

@hellionthesagereborn I stay at home and raise our kids, cook and clean and take care of everything at home. I have lots of sex with him (I have the higher sex drive so I usually start everything. He never has asked for sex from me). We both lots our virginity to each other. And yeah he is pretty much the leader of our family. I might control what goes on in the house but he controls the real shit like where we live and stuff like that. So yeah I guess by your standards I'm traditional.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Okay, then I have no issue, I don't have a problem with traditionalism, I do have a problem with hypocrisy and that is what most women spout when they just don't want to contribute.

[The_man_whol_aughs]

What race is your husband? Also how the hell are you ok with traditionalism and every other woman is not

[Apple1996]

@The_man_whol_aughs my hubby is white and I don't know probably how I was raised. My parents are pretty traditional

[The_man_whol_aughs]

I'm honestly confused beyond all reason? Are you really a woman or a catfish?

Years and years of women complaining about tradition and then there is you

[Apple1996]

@The_man_whol_aughs no no I'm real. I just like staying at home with my kids

[mistixs]

@The_man_whol_aughs and @Daniela1982 are fun with the generalizations. Different women are different. Not "all women want to be equal". Some women want to have the same roles as men; some women prefer being traditional.
Stop judging women by what other women say.

[Apple1996]

@mistixs thank you for saying this

[Daniela1982]

@mistixs No one said "all women". But since women have been fighting for their rights ( like voting) and equal pay, one would assume that the majority of women are wanting equality. But again, when it suits them. For paying for a date they don't want that part of it. That is why I say Dutch Treat and have them pay for their own entertainment/food.

[mistixs]

@Daniela1982 reread your first comment. YOU said "all women"

Anyway you sound suspiciously like a male MRA.

[Daniela1982]

@mistixs Try reading that again. I asked if she saying that all women want to be equal with a man. I sound like a male? Why, because I don't ask all the sex questions that you do? I don't think I've seen you ask anything else. So by your own standards you could be a male too.

[The_man_whol_aughs]

Ok ladies calm it's just apple's desire and opinion

No need to fight over it , we are so used seeing women fight against traditional roles

We forget some want to be in traditional roles

[The_man_whol_aughs]

No need to have a heated discussion

[mistixs]

@Daniela1982 "if she saying that all women want to be equal with a man." Why would you ask that? She never implied it anywhere

"I don't think I've seen you ask anything else." Well then you haven't been paying attention.

[Daniela1982]

@mistixs I didn't say she was saying that, I was ASKING if she was saying that. There is a difference.

[mistixs]

@Daniela1982 I said "Why did you ask that? She didn't imply that anywhere"

[Daniela1982]

@mistixs For the sake of expanding and clarifying the conversation. To cover all aspects so there are no mistakes about anything. This is the most I've ever seen you respond to me since I've been here.

[MzAsh]

I love Matthew Hussey. I believe either you ask, you pay. Or half and half.