Well, guys, I'm giving you an opportunity to vent here. I know this is a common problem. You, most often, have to do the approaching, if you want anything to happen in your life, romantic relationship-wise. So then you are on the receiving end of trying to figure out whether girls reciprocate interest or not.
Say you like someone. You tell them. They don't give you a clear idea of how they feel about you, or how they feel about your feelings towards them.
Think in these terms:
How important is it for you to know this?
How much time can/will you give them?
Is it better having some contact with them, developing a friendship with them, or waiting to see if they will develop feelings for you... or would you always rather know immediately, cut your losses, and not spend more time waiting or hanging out with them?
When is it worth the gamble, and when is it just annoying and a waste of time?
Do you always feel one way, that it falls one way, typically, or is each situation different/unique?
Will you ever be content with being just friends?
I want to know, clearly, as soon as possible, if the other person reciprocates the feelings. I don't like these situations to drag on at all.
I am willing to wait to see if they develop feelings for me. Sometimes it takes time for people to figure these things out.
I don't mind the indirect, non-commital approach. I'm a pretty patient person, and I'm flexible. It's also less pressure on me then.
Kill me now. Nothing drives me more insane than this avoidant female behaviour. Just tell me, aleady! I'd rather have a 'no' then be left on read.
Select gender and age to cast your vote:
Please select your age
Guys, how do you feel about 'the friendzone', or being left in purgatory, wondering how the girl feels about you, or if she'll ever return feelings?
I voted for option B, given the choices, but as far as the Friendzone goes, I don't blame women for not feeling romantic chemistry with me, but rejection still sucks all the same, and I'd rather not be "friends" with someone who doesn't see me as good enough to date them. The only thing that I do dislike women doing is when they lead guys on or manipulate their emotions, often for their own amusement. They can piss off with that kind of behavior.
How important is it for you to know this? I'd need to know, sooner or later.
How much time can/will you give them? I'd give them two weeks to one month's time, depending on how long I've known them. If they can't give me an answer by then, I move on.
Is it better having some contact with them, developing a friendship with them, or waiting to see if they will develop feelings for you... or would you always rather know immediately, cut your losses, and not spend more time waiting or hanging out with them? I'm not going to be friends with someone who thinks of me as unworthy of a relationship or inferior, no. The hell with that!
When is it worth the gamble, and when is it just annoying and a waste of time? When you can legitimately see a future with this person and they're not just someone you'd get bored with the minute after having sex with them.
Do you always feel one way, that it falls one way, typically, or is each situation different/unique? I am usually always rejected or friendzone rejected. I think I've only ever had to "friendzone" a girl one time, and it's not that I didn't like her as a person, but the fact she dated and slept with women before, including her last relationship, and that's an absolute dealbreaker for me. I have zero attraction to lesbians (hetero women are hard enough to deal with) nor do I think of myself as feminine/womanly. Also, her saying this stuff to me came out of left field and there was no implication she would ever want to (pretend to) date me.
Will you ever be content with being just friends? No. I have no interest in being friends with someone who hurt my feelings, directly or indirectly, or thinks of me as not worthy of her time.
How important is it for you to know this?If I've already made my intentions clear, then I wouldn't appreciate being left in the lurch.
How much time can/will you give them?I never thought to put a time limit on it, but I've learned in the past not to waste months of my life wandering "what if?", at a certain point, either she likes me or she don't, waiting around won't change that outcome, attraction is generally an instantaneous thing. "Friends first" may work for some people, but for me, the ambiguity and one-sidedness of that approach is too much trouble for the relatively small chances of a happy ending. As a general policy I keep "friends" and "romantic interests" in separate boxes.
Is it better having some contact with them, developing a friendship with them, or waiting to see if they will develop feelings for you... or would you always rather know immediately, cut your losses, and not spend more time waiting or hanging out with them?I'd generally tilt towards the latter, although I've had some meaningful friendships emerge over time that initially started with me having a crush which wasn't reciprocated. Generally speaking, I'm happy to be "just friends" after getting turned down, just so long as I made my intentions known to the girl. Again, I don't care much WHICH "box" a girl ends up in, just so long as I KNOW which box she's in. Wanna be in the "friends" box? Cool, I'll treat you like a friend. Wanna be in the "lover" box? Well, I'll treat you like a lover! But none of this "oh I want the benefits of the lover but I only wanna treat you like a friend in return" bullshit, that's straight up manipulation.
When is it worth the gamble, and when is it just annoying and a waste of time?I don't know, I don't really view it in those terms. If I've already determined for myself that I'm gonna make a move, then whether or not it's a "gamble" or an "annoyance" or a "waste of time" is irrelevant. I'll do what I do, and she'll respond how she responds. The outcome will be whatever it will be. The only "waste of time" would be if I lied to MYSELF about my intentions-- and by extension, sending mixed messages to the girl. So again, I keep the "friend" and "lover" categories compartmentalised, and if I'm ever unsure of my feelings to a particular girl, then my priority becomes sorting out how I feel. Then once she's placed in the appropriate box, I can act accordingly.
Do you always feel one way, that it falls one way, typically, or is each situation different/unique?I think each situation is unique, but general trends or patterns may emerge over time. It needs more "field testing" to extrapolate a generalisation I can stand behind. Currently I'm somewhat agnostic towards the whole thing, I'm more interested in controlling the things I can control, rather than trying to control forces outside my influence. I guess the % chances of success increase when the clarity of intent is there, and they rapidly drop off when the intentions become muddied, unclear, or poorly communicated.
Will you ever be content with being just friends?See above.
I chose B. Why? Well because I'm in no rush and I would hate to be that guy who's overbearing and in your face about things. If you like me, cool. If you don't, that's fine too. It's whatever really.
How important is it for you to know this?On a scale of 1-10, I'd say a 6, I'm not desperate but would I like to know? Well sure. How much time can/will you give them?That depends on how much they are willing to give, if they are willing to give a lot of time for me, I will do the same for them, if they are making me carry the conversation, carry the dates, etc, then I will simply give them no time. It's that simple.
Is it better having some contact with them, developing a friendship with them, or waiting to see if they will develop feelings for you... or would you always rather know immediately, cut your losses, and not spend more time waiting or hanging out with them?Here's the thing, I never understood why people want to know immediately, because I see it like this, if you are too quick to ask a girl has feelings for you or you say you like her or have feelings to fast, then you probably just ruined any possibility right there because now you're coming off as rushing things, you will scare them off, and it will come off as a red flag to them most of the time. It's always better to develop a friendship with them first and wait it out, waiting to see if they develop feelings for you that way it will be natural and you two can form some kind of a connection rather than rush things without any kind of warmup period. If that person puts you in the friendzone because you decided to form a friendship and see if they develop feelings, then cut your losses and move on, that person wasn't worth it if that causes them to put you in the friendzone. The people that are too quick with their 'I have feelings for you' usually often end up back at square one (or back to being single), not saying it never works, but it often doesn't go well because like I said, it's rushing things.
When is it worth the gamble, and when is it just annoying and a waste of time? Do you always feel one way, that it falls one way, typically, or is each situation different/unique?What do you mean? When is the friendzone worth the gamble you mean? I mean usually never, but to each their own, if it seems worth the effort, go for it. However, getting out of the friendzone can take years and will take a lot of persistence but at that point, you may be coming off as creepy if you're too persistent and at that point, you're better off finding someone else who won't put you in the friendzone and someone where things can flow nicely.
Will you ever be content with being just friends?Why not? It will depend though, if you had strong feelings about this person or felt a certain connection or felt a lot of romantic infatuation then I would recommend going your separate ways and cutting contact because it may be either too painful for you or too stressful, and trying to be friends will only make you depressed and/or jealous if they get in a relationship with someone else. I've been in that situation, don't do what I did, it's not worth being friends when you feel such a romantic infatuation with them.
I could see myself voting for any of the options that you listed. They all have some truth to them.
I will answer your questions now:
• How important is it for you to know this?
It's very important. The answer will determine whether I should spend time investing in them or move my attention elsewhere. (And honestly, I think "attention whores" (pardon the coarse word) take advantage of this. Which is why I almost can't blame the guys who demand sex up front before getting into a relationship. I understand their point of view now. I get it.)
• How much time can/will you give them?
It all depends on how bored I am and how generous I'm feeling. And how much faith I have in them as a person. (But since none of those factors are sure bets and nothing is guaranteed, the woman is taking a huge risk by just hoping that I will continue to hang around. It would be in her best interest to show some real investment on her side as well in order to "set the hook" a little bit.)
• Is it better having some contact with them, developing a friendship with them, or waiting to see if they will develop feelings for you... or would you always rather know immediately, cut your losses, and not spend more time waiting or hanging out with them?
Early (ish) contact is ALWAYS the best policy. I'm just very lenient on this because I'm sympathetic to the fact that women are scared of men. Though I think that some girls are waiting until they feel a romantic spark before they decide to meet up with someone, and I think that's a mistake. I think that once you get to the point where you can trust someone enough not to be a creep, you should just go ahead and meet them. Then you can figure out whether you like them as a potential partner or just as a friend. For some people, I don't think that true romance can really ever happen online.
In response to the second part of your question: I don't really know. I could go either way. Because on the one hand, if she doesn't like me, fine. "Next!". But on the other hand, if she is genuinely undecided and feels like she just needs more time to get to know me, then I am willing to give her that time; I feel like that would be a reasonable thing to do. Besides, I have a high level of confidence in my ability to impress a woman through personal engagement. And I am "a grower, not a shower" with regards to my personality and relationship/partner roles and romance/love.
• When is it worth the gamble, and when is it just annoying and a waste of time?
That is the million dollar question, isn't it?
• Do you always feel one way, that it falls one way, typically, or is each situation different/unique?
Each situation is obviously unique and different, because each person is unique and different. I never try to pigeonhole anyone.
• Will you ever be content with being just friends?
Yes, absolutely. I totally would. BUT the problem with that right now is I'm SINGLE. Which means I will always want more (if I am attracted to them). Please don't blame me for that. It's just my natural instinct as a man.
The only time I think I was friend zoned other than by choice was when I was a teenager I met this chick before I got with my first real girlfriend I was around 15 and she was 19 or 20 and I came straight at her which usually worked but she said I was to young. I always messed with chicks older than me at 15 I was messing with a 35 year old. Anyways I always would rub into her here or there and I kinda flirted because I was crushing on her hard but I was dating my first real girlfriend so nothing was gonna come of the flirting. She never seemed to take me serious she treated me like her little brother. Then I turned 18 and was single and we ran into each other and hot damn it was explosive. I think because I was pretty direct and came straight at them that maybe I threw them off or never gave them the chance to friend zone me. It usually went like, I meet them find out if they were dating a homeboy or had any kids with any homeboys and if it was clear I'd come straight at them and ask if the wanted to party or hang out or whatever then pretty quick like same an half an hour to 2 days tops is was going in for a kiss or just straight up telling them I thought they were hot and let's get to it. And it worked. This was the 80's in southern California and I was a long haired surfer kid. I was a straight player but I was honest with them I told them from the start I was looking for a girlfriend just for fun. Really though I don't have a problem with being friends with hot chicks and not catching feelings or trying to hook up because I've been married for close to 30 years. Really I stayed clear of women for roughly the first 20 years because my wife is the jealous type and I loved her and didn't want her to worry since I did have a reputation when we got together. But a few years back she did me real dirty when there was no need for it except selfishness so since then I'll hang out with whoever I want and do whatever I want. So I've met a couple smoken hot chicks and we became good friends and even though I had every right to do her dirty I couldn't hurt my kids like that. So yeah I can hang in the friend zone with a hot chick of course it was my choice to not try and take it to the next level. I don't mean to come off conceded I'm just telling it like it was
"How important is it for you to know this?"It was important as soon as I decided I wanted to go on a date with them.
"How much time can/will you give them?"
As long as she takes to answer the question. If it was anything but a yes, I wouldn't pursue any further.
"Is it better having some contact with them, developing a friendship with them, or waiting to see if they will develop feelings for you... or would you always rather know immediately, cut your losses, and not spend more time waiting or hanging out with them?"
The latter, definitely. While sometimes people can develop feelings gradually, the attraction is usually either there or it's not. The number one reason guys end up in these situations where they end up frustrated and hurt by rejection (which is what being friend-zoned is) is because they've emotionally invested in a girl who doesn't and never would reciprocate their interest.
"When is it worth the gamble, and when is it just annoying and a waste of time?"
It's almost always a waste of time waiting for, committing to, and emotionally investing in a girl you're not even dating and who doesn't reciprocate your interest.
"Do you always feel one way, that it falls one way, typically, or is each situation different/unique?"
Rejection never bothered me, the only thing I felt differently about is whether or not I wanted to remain friends. I think that was about genuine vs fake friendship. Some girls will say "lets just be friends" to let a guy down gently, and they might still talk to him when he initiates conversation, but they're not genuinely friends.
"Will you ever be content with being just friends?"
I have been. Again only when I think it's genuine friendship.
Im in between A and B. I do know women are more complex when it comes to feeling attraction to a man. They can take longer to develop feelings and fall in love.
However once they reach the conclusion that they will never see the man beyond a friend we to know ASAP. Don’t play dumb just because you enjoy the validation you get from the man’s attention, effort, support, money or worse. All those I just listed a finite resources.
I give young inexperienced women (25 and younger) “some” leeway on this. Most of them just don’t understand the male position in this situation. However a few them are drunk with power given they are very attractive. But it infuriates me when grown ass women 30 or older who still act confident about the friendzone. More often than not they are just doubling down on the “let’s get one for the team” attitude. That is they had some other guy screw them over earlier in their life. They feel justified screwing over a completely different guy to get “even”. Don’t do that shit.
Yeah, that's bad behaviour for sure. Maturity really does seem to be stunted. I wonder if we should blame the 2008 financial crisis, which threw a financial monkey wrench into so many plans. People living at home, supported by their parents... Peter Pan/Penelope Pan syndrome or something.
There are people who try and get vindication/revenge, placing it onto the next partner/person they date. I always wonder just how many of those, vs. the 'I don't know what to say to him, how to tell him I'm not interested!' girls. Neither is justified but one has less malice.
Well I was guilty 2-3 times of not directly communicating to an interested in girl that I was not interested. Once in HS and twice in college.
But once I grew the f up (and had a few agonizing experiences of being friendzoned myself) I was careful to directly yet respectfully tell women where I stand. Around my mid 20s I got better at this. From age 30 and on I definitely made sure to do this.
I know I come off as bitter. But I had a grown ass 38 year old woman knock it put of the park a few years ago with this when I was 37. It was so egregious I thought I completely misread the situation and didn’t say anything for a long time after we last interacted. Anyway. Maybe it was just bad luck. But still it was insane
It's all right. People need to vent. Just do try and not make all other women pay for that woman's sins. P. S. 'Knock it out of the park' is a good thing, not bad.
Yeah that was sarcasm. That doesn’t mean I automatically judge and assume other women to be the same way. I also got a bad habit of assuming that people around my age and older should be more mature and trustworthy. No one is perfect but just some common sense and the humility to admit wrong when you screw up (she tried to gaslight me when I confronted later). You would think that life smack some sense into them. I know I act different now than I did at 22. But some people actually get worse.
The bottom line is that as a mature man I understand that attraction isn’t a choice. I admit I didn’t understand that very well when I was much younger but I definitely do now.
However respect is definitely a choice. At a certain point in life you should be able to distinguish the two.
Hey @AmandaYVR I just want to say THANK YOU for having the patience and insight to hear out guys on this one. We might not agree on everything but the fact you have put the effort into seeing our POV on things means something.
Maybe you could talk some sense into the other women who sometimes act real conceited on here. They most likely will not listen to me but they might listen to you.
Absolutely! That's why I am here, to hash out ideas, even difficult ones. I enjoy hearing other perspectives. But as it turns out, here, the males engage so much more, so I have a lot of empathy for them now, and how things have changed in society. I also see through the tricks, and justifications, and hypocrisy. I don't care which gender's doing it, I don't like seeing it, and I will call it out sometimes, after I've collected lots of information and feel I truly understand it well.
There's one thing about men that is consistent, compared to women - you don't avoid, shut down, or back away from controversy. Mind you, sometimes it's for bad, not just for good, but you engage. You blues here (and I think in life) can quite often handle some tension, some difference of opinion, and still keep it civil. (Nut jobs aside, right.) I've spent a lot of time thinking about conflict. And I am constantly encouraging the pinks here to consider their methods, as well. It's a skill you learn. You can learn. But I don't honestly think they listen to me anymore than to you. Pinks are 56% of the userbase here, but they comment in a fraction on pretty much all qs (even female-driven ones, like fashion.) They ask a ton of qs, but they don't comment nearly as much. That might not be a completely straightforward single reason why, but believe me, it's impactful, and I'm watching. There's really no excuses. The information is here, the men are willing to have dialogues (most, not all.) I have always written very consciously inclusively, to include both genders, all age groups, ideally. I've just adapted my topics, based on who's interested, who also enjoys analyzing the world with me.
@AmandaYVR I just wish there was more women like you.
You know how I said earlier that guys can’t show emotion/vulnerability publicly without losing face? Well there are very few places we can do it safely and GAG is one of them. Seriously how many guys do you see on social media complaining about relationship problems vs how women act sometimes? I know this is something people grow out of (I regret things I posted in the past) but still we can and will lose face if we publicly express that.
Most of these women on GAG already have places to express themselves safely. But guys have pent up issues. That’s why you see us talking more. It’s anonymous and safer for us.
I think it is silly and messed up if someone gets upset that you confess you have feelings for someone and they act entitled to be upset. Many people end up dating heir best friend in the end. There are plenty of tik toks on this.
Just because their confession made you very uncomfortable doesn't give you the right to go off on someone who is putting themselves on the line. If you've ever wondered why a guy doesn't make a move and you've ever made someone feel bad for making a move on you... then YOU are the problem.
Its fine to not be attracted. Its fine to be uncomfortable. But if you didn't make it clear USING WORDS then be a decent person and turn them down nicely.
You need to treat the person your not attracted to with the same respect you would to the people you are attracted to.
People have honest feelings and good intentions and are showing that they value you, treat them with the respect and kindness they deserve... even if their confession came out of nowhere.
If I ask someone out and their answer is anything else than a clear yes, I take it as a no. And that's totally okay. If I ask someone out and they say "not right now", or "I don't know", or anything else along those lines, to me that seems like "I'm too scared to flat out say No because I've had guys react badly to that in the past and I don't wanna hurt your feelings so I'm trying to let you down easy" If they really wanted to go out with me, or really liked me that way, they would have said yes to the date. But they didn't, which means it's time for me to move on. I'm not gonna chase and pester someone like a creep when they don't wanna go out with me just because I didn't get a perfectly clear "No, don't me ask again". If it's not an enthusiastic yes, then take it as a no. As for the "friendzone" bullshit, are you really in the friendzone, or are you in the "I'm only being nice to this girl in the hopes that she'll date me and she's now too scared of me to tell me to fuck off so she's pretending like we're friends to keep the peace" zone. Cause I see that happen. Like a lot.
If I made this arguably hard step to open up about my feelings, exposing myself to all sorts of judgment for it, I want answers and I don't want to wait for too long. I don't like being stuck in unclear situations, especially when solving the situation is basically answering "Do you love me back?". I can wait for a while, like maybe a month if you need time to think this through, but don't expect me to stick around if you want to keep being undecided. I don't want to waste my time and, more importantly, hope for nothing and end up being crushed. The more you wait, the more I'll hope and the more it will hurt if the answer is no.
I'm fine with being just friends as, if I caught feelings for someone, it's because we got along in the first place but, once you choose friends, stick to it. I don't want this to be an on and off between friendship and romantic feelings. I have been through that already and this instability is just awful as you never know where you truly stand in the end. I ended up cutting that person off because this was driving me crazy, especially because it was supplemented with a bit of gaslighting and judgment.
In the end, I'm okay with being just friends but I hate when things are not clear, as if you want to keep me around in case but not commit to your decision.
I have admittedly A LOT to say about this, so buckle up.
First, I'll answer your questions then comment.
How important is it for you to know this? Very... eventually
How much time can/will you give them? I don't know exactly how much time, but it is not a lifetime.
Is it better having some contact with them, developing a friendship with them, or waiting to see if they will develop feelings for you... or would you always rather know immediately, cut your losses, and not spend more time waiting or hanging out with them? I believe it's better to have some contact with them, but again how much is not a lifetime.
When is it worth the gamble, and when is it just annoying and a waste of time? Beyond a certain point, it becomes a waste of time. I'm afraid I haven't defined exactly when that certain point is. Sorry I can't provide you with a better answer.
Do you always feel one way, that it falls one way, typically, or is each situation different/unique? It *usually* falls one way. Rejection is the norm, so it usually falls that way.
Will you ever be content with being just friends? Yes, but I realize that not everyone will be content AND THAT IS PERFECTLY OK. (I wrote a take about that here Not Another Friend Zone Take! )
So, let me explain further. Firstly, I don't believe the majority of people who use the term "friendzone" mean it in a sexist way. Women use it too. Are they being self loathing when they do? No, I don't think so. A very LOUD minority of men do use it in a sexist way (she enjoyed leading me on! she owes me! etc.). But most don't mean it that way.
So I have no problem with the term the way it's used most of the time.
I firmly believe no one owes anyone sex. I never believed the friendzone was a consolation prize. I do think *some* people think they're owed sex for certain things, and I do think *sometimes* friendship is a consolation prize (the person offering it really doesn't want to be friends either, they're just hoping the other person fades away). I do think sometimes a person is using someone for favors. However these are all outliers and not the norm.
Now, it's usually men in the friendzone, but it happens to women too. I believe much of this is due to the fact that for the most part, men are expected to do the approaching. If the roles were reversed, I tend to think attitudes about the friendzone would be similarly reversed (but not quite, women do seem to be better at reading non verbal cues)
So let me tell you a tale of two ladies (both alike in dignity...) from my youth. The first we'll call X and the second Y. I met X right after high school. I quickly developed a crush on her. She rejected me. OK. Normally I would probably just fade away. No anger. No resentment. Just move on. HOWEVER, she promptly started dating my friend. It hurt, and it hurt a lot. I guess technically I wasn't friendzoned, but it had a lot of similarities. If I wanted to see my friend, I had to see her. And I had to see them together. It devastated me. I came home and cried myself to sleep... when I could sleep. It hurt VERY BAD to see her affectionate with someone else, which was something I could avoid under different circumstances.
I never felt angry at X. I wanted for her happiness, and still do to this day. I was happy she was happy (briefly, as it turns out. My friend treated her like shit). However, you can be happy for someone else and not be happy yourself (and I think many women misunderstand this). I am friends with her to this day via FB. She is happy and I'm glad for her. But the whole ordeal was VERY PAINFUL. If I had a choice, I would have chosen not to go through with it.
About five years later I met Y. I worked in the classical music section of Tower Records (remember them?) Actually one of the best jobs I ever had. I got paid to listen to and talk about classical music all day! And one day, this highly intelligent, very talented (she played piano... and as you can see, I have a thing for musicians), very kind, and positively lovely woman showed up as my replacement (I had given my notice). We bantered and flirted and I asked her out after I had left the company. We went out a few times, had a good time.
... And she rejected me. She even used a movie line to reject me! (and yes, I give props to her for rejecting me with a movie line!). She said, "My feelings for you don't go beyond friendship. I wish they did." Do you know the movie?
And then what she said next floored me (and frankly made it harder, because it proved what a compassionate person she was). She said she wanted to be friends, "... but I'll understand if you don't want to." I tearfully wished her goodbye and all the happiness she richly deserves. And I never saw her again. I had thought back to X and what an ordeal that was. I remembered how hard it was to see her in the arms of another man. I realized that would eventually happen with Y. And I only like a special woman once a half decade or sometimes longer. So it is almost certain she will be with someone before I would.
As with X, I never felt anger at Y. I never felt used. I never felt she owed me. I realize she worked out eventually we weren't going to be together and it took time to work it out. I understand that. But her very presence would cause pain. Just seeing her caused pain. So I decided not to be her friend. I want for her happiness even to this day. But I decided not to be in her life to see it.
That's why when *I* friendzoned a girl, we'll call her Z, I felt absolutely no rancor when *she* decided she didn't want to be my friend. She did exactly as I did with Y. I want for her happiness, too.
So what I got from all that in my youth shaped how I view the friendzone today. Here's how I believe people should behave.
The rejected should never feel owed anything. The rejected should not get angry. The rejected should not hang around secretly waiting for her to be vulnerable so he can swoop in, but only hang around if he wants to be her friend. The rejected, if he loves or cares for her, should want for her happiness. The rejected should understand it's hard on her, too. The rejected can make a decision either way if he wants to stay or go.
The rejector should understand that her friend may be experiencing a lot of pain. That different people also handle rejection differently, based on their brain chemistry, their brain anatomy, and their backgrounds (people bullied take rejection much worse). The rejector should allow him to decide whether or not he wants to remain friends AND RESPECT THAT DECISION. The rejector, if she loves and cares for him, should want for his happiness, even if that means she's not around to see it.
If I'm interested in a woman (I'm off the market), I'll take the time to get to know her and if I'm interested, I make my move.
If she's not interested, I'm not sticking around, I move on. I don't need 2nd place or that friendship. Nor am I interested in giving a woman that kind of access to me when I wanted more.
"Oh, but you can make a good friends" - Guess what? if you're in a strong relationship, the friendship is inclusive. You will NOT piecemeal OR supplement my good qualities with another guy who's lacking in that area because you choose poorly.
I don't reward that.
I'm an "all or nothing" guy and I prefer a woman who's interested in me. Doesn't have to be immediate but I'll be damned if it drags out.
I'll respect a woman's preference, If I'm not for you, no problem. But if you reject me, you reject ACCESS as well.
Let me just add a bit in their defence though... (this is not a replacement, but a supplement to what you said.)
Sometimes they're not sure. Females are often more cautious, lower on risk. Makes sense, biologically, historically, before birth control options, right?
Yes, they are far more particular in the initial stages of assessing the partner. But they are basing it on far more than just looks. Guys, by necessity or priority, value, in the beginning stages, the external and whether it is conscious or not, the child-bearing capabilities of youth in women. But women/girls are assessing everything about the guy. It's too critical, I know. But there's a biological component that we are all slowing evolving away from. We don't 'need' each other as much as in the past. (Less interest in having kids, outsourcing work to others, both sexes in the workplace, the global population tipped into living in urban centres with easier transportation, yet smaller dwellings, also more singles living under their parents' room than since the 1940s, people are growing up with fewer life/'survival' skills, and simply press an app on their phone, etc... so we are in the most individualized, on-demand, self-directed society that has ever existed. Not needing each other, makes people fussy, particular, paralyzed by indecision, and the destructive idea that they can keep looking, find better, find 'the best' mate.)
Your views are common amongst men. I'm really not sure how many girls are aware of this. Do they really think it's unfounded, or do they see the pattern and inequities? And the potent effect that almost constant rejection has on a person?
Men are still the primary initiators, more vocal, proactive, direct. However, I have also found them to be sometimes evasive in real life (in my 20s, when they are reluctant to commit), but I'm also trying to factor in the world as it is today. And things have/are changing, no doubt about it. I see some resistance in girls, to empathize, or to take culpability in the current tensions. They say, essentially, "be better", and yes, some boys do need to, to grow up. Growth is stunted, and the market is flooded with inventory. And yes, expectations of girls are too high.
In addition to that, girls and young women are growing up with a lot of insecurity. They're raised on Instagram and Kardashian shite, addicted to likes and sexual affirmation. Many think that is their value (even after all the feminists who fought to be valued for something more.) Don't just hear/listen to the somewhat aggressive vocal minority here. The majority are afraid of acceptance, of being good enough, and many think the answer is in staying quiet and looking sexy. They don't even have the confidence to answer questions in detail here. (Problem is, both sides feel that. But the pinks shut down the dialogue before it ever begins.)
"In addition to that, girls and young women are growing up with a lot of insecurity"
And? Its not different from what guys deal with. The difference is, insecurity for women is socially accepted. Insecurity among men is not. Ask any woman, they'll tell you that a man that isn't confident is a turn off.
@Hunter7754 That's not what this is about. Yes, not being insecure is more important in a girl's view of a guy, than in a guy's view of a girl. (I confirmed this in a poll here. Poll showed not all, but the majority vote these ways. Though I did make it a scale, and not an absolute.) However, insecurity applies itself in different ways, based on gender. If a man is so insecure that he doesn't approach, he will be more likely to not get into any relationships. He has to be much, much more proactive. (I've done everything I can here to encourage girls to be more proactive, but most of them ain't having it. They'll give you a bunch of 'reasons' but what it comes down to is risk-aversion. And a bit of gender role adherence that some people still believe in, men included.) But girls can be insecure, doubting both themselves and their value to guys, and what they want in guys. And that manifests in them being overly cautious, unresponsive, indecisive. There's a whoooole bunch of reasons why girls may not respond or be direct, but ONE of them is that they are not growing up as confident individuals who can be decisive and make good decisions.
How important is it for you to know this? Depends on how I feel about her. How much time can/will you give them? Not too much time, either the feelings are mutual or it isn't. Best not to waste time. Is it better having some contact with them, developing a friendship with them, or waiting to see if they will develop feelings for you... or would you always rather know immediately, cut your losses, and not spend more time waiting or hanging out with them? It depends, sometimes one does not want to ruin a good friendship. I believe if it were going to happen between friends, it would've happened a while ago. When is it worth the gamble, and when is it just annoying and a waste of time? It's always a gamble and time will always be invested. It's a waste of time when you know you aren't going to have the same interest and aren't into the others interests. Do you always feel one way, that it falls one way, typically, or is each situation different/unique? Not sure what you mean Will you ever be content with being just friends? Sure, but then for whatever odd reason you're either a good friend of mine or we'll eventually just drift apart and become acquaintances in my eyes. I don't have "just friends". Lifes too busy to keep up with everyone.
Really not bothered tbh. It get's a bit upsetting to not have what i want, but it's not about me. It's about them. If they don't see me that way i cannot force them too. So i will happy just stay friends. And i am not really stuck hoping it will happen. If it does great but i won't worry about it. I always tell people who i like, if i like them in that way. Just cause i am open about it and don't see that it really needs to cause problems. It's just we stay as friends or you say you like me too. No loses there. And if there a person who get's freaked out by a friend liking them in that way they really need to grow up really because through life many friends will like you in that way or at least be sexually attracted to you and just won't say so not really different when someone is honest about it.
After being accused of attempted rape by a longtime friend who I thought of as a sister, who did claimed it after a night we got drunk and I asked if she wanted to cuddle, I've pretty much bailed on doing anything but flirting. Everyone can have fun flirting but I sure as fuck am not touching anyone or asking if I can unless they touch me first. The way jobs look at social media now I just can't afford it. I saw her with her husband recently, first time since then, and she was happy to see me and gave me a hug with her husband standing there, I almost punched her, then slapped myself after they left. I lost friends over that shit. I'm definitely not still bitter (sarcasm)
Wow. And what happened with the rape claim? She went to the police, or told people in your community, or what? I think it's important these types of stories are told accurately, specifically. They are much more useful/significant than a vague, 'I heard about a guy' anecdotes.
Just told her twin sister who was my best friend at the time and several of our friends... her twin/my boyfriend was the one that confronted me about it 2 days later and didn't believe me. I didn't give the one who accused me a hug that night didn't touch her, slept on the couch, other than asking that question I can't think of anything else I did that was threatening. I just shrank into myself and stopped hanging out with anyone they knew, wasn't worth the pain
I really have no clue. She was date-raped once so maybe it reminded her of that but asking for cuddle? Ngl if she'd made a move I'd have gone for it, but I'm way too properly raised/chicken shit to do anything else and she knows that
i appreciate that. It still doesn't change that i've been accused of something heinous by a former friend and been shunned for it. But thank you, seriously, random internet stranger
I don’t personally feel like the friendzone exist. Either someone’s into you or they aren’t. There’s nothing wrong with friendship but a person can’t help it if they aren’t sexually attracted to you. There’s billions of people out there. Friendzone is a mentality. It’s when a person becomes too fixated on a person who isn’t interested to notice the potential in other people who might be.
The only girls I’ve ever been fixated on were girls I had been in relationships with. But I never considered myself friendzoned. But it was never for months or years. A girl has about a week of giving me the cold shoulder before I force myself out of my depressed state and move on. After that I never look back even if they try to get with me again.
There are way too many people and way too little time to be stuck in the friendzone people. Only you can free yourselves. You’re worth more and you deserve better.
It’s really a respect issue. If you “friendzone” a guy by playing dumb just because you like the attention, free meals, favors, etc then you are just being a selfish pos. No way to sugar coat it.
Anyway I’m not saying all women are like that. But too many of them are overconfident that a guy is okay with a platonic relationship (after her stuck his neck out, spent time and money on date, etc.).
Just SPEAK UP if you are not interested. Do it tactfully. Say to the guy “I need to be honest out of respect”. He won’t thank you but he will be thankful.
I know women tend to take longer to fall in love. They got all sorts of cognitive dissonance going on upstairs when they meet a guy who “they aren’t sure about”. Women are TESTING guys and most of the time they don’t even realize it.
To be fair guys can do this too. But not to extent women do it. Also most of us don’t intentionally exploit the friendzone when the roles are reversed. I would never asked a friendzoned girl to hang out with me so I can make the girl I really like jealous. Fuck that. That’s low. But I’ve had women pull this shit on me.
Anyway I’ve met a minority of women who were honest early. Sure it hurt being rejected but I got over it much quicker. She had the respect to tell me where I stood. I don’t like her but I do recognize she respected that I am a MAN and I have needs, goals and dreams when it comes to intimacy, sex and romance. She doesn’t have to be part of that if she’s not interested. But at least respects that vs. “Playing dumb” to just be a selfish pos.
It sucks if you're a nice guy, because she treats you like one of the girls or her gay freinds, who just happens too be straight. Sitting there, listening too her dump her disappointment over this boyfriend, that boyfriend, "Oh why can't I find a nice guy too be with, who is sensitive and caring and" Hello? You're talking too him, not that you'd ever notice. And by the way, my penis is exceptional, not that you deserve the chance too discover that for yourself, throwing yourself at these losers and expecting a shoulder too 😢 on with no acknowledgment that I'm male, let alone eligible bachelor material!!! Oh, how I'd love too actually say that too her. Unfortunately I can't, because I'm a nice guy. Otherwise known as a smuck.
Well I more or less want to sleep with all my female friends, but I'm totally cool with just being friends. I don't consider it friend-zoning though, because I'm always very upfront about my intentions.
I don't even know how an "ambiguous" answer would work, I know one woman who told me we can go on a date "some day" but I'm not entirely sure what that means. However, we don't see each other a lot so I think she's just not interested so I just dismissed the possibility. I have her my number, but I refuse to play games with relationships. Basically, I avoid the friend zone by just treating everything that's not "yes" as "no".
I, personally, am not very desperate. I do develop a lot of crushes, but I can easily understand the fact that they aren't attraced to me and can move on and stop being a clingy moron. I am okay to wait it out, again, its not a compulsion for women to open up to you right away. If they feel like opening up, they will, if they are too shy or nervous, they won't. If they do, yes good for me, if they don't, well, I am moving on, simple as that. Dont cage yourselves, be free and learn to move on if you get rejected.
Well when your young your not to sure what your feeling it better yet can put it into words and shyness been there done that never going back so we mature some of us are tuned in to our feelings can recognize understand them and can easily describe exactly what how we feel articulately to her instead of hmm umm why yeah about how umm ahem, something we must all experience on the road to maturity, but for those who have no fear I say just ask don't beat the bush act like king Kong swatting planes out the sky just open your trap and express yourself she smiles your in she walks away you do same in opposite direction
To be honest, I'm not sure I've ever had feelings for a girl. So if she reciprocated the same feelings (or no feelings lol) towards me I wouldn't mind. Also, I'm not the most proactive when it comes to making friends in general. But sometimes friendships just happen unintentionally right? If I have regular contact with a girl when I have to (like at work or she's a classmate) then maybe a friendship or even something more can be made... who knows. I'm in no rush for a relationship
My short answer is... I don't care if I'm in 'the friendzone'.
I hated it back when I was younger. Girls would be eager to go out with you and you’d go through several dates spending money and getting mixed signals. I always had to be careful with what I said or did as you would never know where you stood. It’s like they were waiting for this “sign” to come out of nowhere and tell them it was ok to have feelings for you. Then one day, you call them and they dodge your call. So, you ask their friend and they tell you “she likes you but only as a friend”. “You’re really sweet but she’s looking for something else”. Then you get pissed because of all the time and money you wasted.
Waiting some time is okay but there has to be some type of cut off. After a month im starting to feel things are going well, stop me before I start falling fast. The deeper in I get the worse its going to hurt
At one point the friend zone was terrifying it felt like doom and gloom but I've realized that its a perfect way to still have them in your life while you move on and search elsewhere. So I can take a friend zone with grace.
Personally I have been surprisingly happy in the end to have been "banished" to the proverbial friend zone after having spent a great deal of time and learned what the person who I was initially attracted to physically actually revealed the type of woman she was in reality. We can only get the real story when residing in the friend zone. I'm just actually very happy to have the many female friends I have been blessed with. They are an invaluable commodity when I get close to being in a relationship. No better judge ever existed to give you the real story about a woman than a woman who calls you her brother.
How important is it for you to know this? - Very important!
How much time can/will you give them? - Depends on my love for her and how she acts with me after.
Is it better having some contact with them, developing a friendship with them, or waiting to see if they will develop feelings for you... or would you always rather know immediately, cut your losses, and not spend more time waiting or hanging out with them? - It's better to have some contact with her. I that way she can see how she feels about me and I can also feel if she likes me or not. Even if I have to endure liking her and not be with her for that time.
-When is it worth the gamble, and when is it just annoying and a waste of time? Do you always feel one way, that it falls one way, typically, or is each situation different/unique?
Will you ever be content with being just friends? - After I distance myself for some time to gather myself sure.
Eh tbh I kinda feel guys put themselves there. Make ur move and let it be known what u want. If she reject u there two options. If the friendship worth it, stay but accept and take steps to move on and dont sit hoping she will return ur feeling one day. She told u no and maybe one day that change but for ur own good it's not good to hope for that. If the friendship not worth it leave and don't feel guilty. Just explain ur feeling and let them know ur sorry but what u want is a relationship and it friendship and u can't stick around for the friendship without the relationship.
Was recently talking to a lady, that told me after she finished my class she had a crush on me. So I played along, them it became cute "good night" texts. So when we had dinner, as I was leaving I asked "would you like to make this a regular thing?" She told me "I wanna be your friend, not date you. I want to focus on my kid" etc. Cool Guess what? Those cute messages now stopped from me, and I'm going to see how much effort she will put into our "friendship". I'll start to push out the first text a few days, then a couple weeks, then about six weeks. If she won't make effort in the meantime to text first, guess we aren't friends.
It's a tough place to be... It's nice to be affirmed and to be given a source of confidence in my manship... To know that I could be a desirable partner... I'd like a good friend but I'd also like that friend to help me to find a relationship if she is just gonna friend zone me, I might as well use her insight
I never liked women who played mind games or hard to get. If they weren't interested, they weren't interested. I at least need signs of interest and progress. If she can't make up her mind or is keeping her options open, I can move on and do the friendzone thing myself. There are plenty of fish in the sea. Plus, I was never one for "crushing" on someone just because of their looks. Their had to be a connection.
Yeah definitely after meeting them a few times I want to know if there is any romantic interest or spark. If not then no big deal but I’ll assume it’ll never change because wasting time on someone just prevents you/holds you back from meeting someone else or possibly even being OPEN to meeting someone else
I get friend zoned or denied all the time. Women want a man who is some one that will never exist. Every man has a few imperfections and they love to magnify them and dwell upon them and ask the man to change it. No matter what they are never accepted. in my opinion... FML
It's stupid to not tell someone how you feel. If it will hurt them, then it hurts them but at least they can move on or you have given them a green light to do so. If you don't want someone misleading you, whether it be a person or your bosses at work, then don't do it to others. If I don't like you, I will let you know. I expect the same.
That doesn't happen to me personally but I've also been in a relationship for 6 years so I hardly remember what it is like to "get" girls.
I am going to say that usually, it means that you are everything they wish their future man to be. However, by calling yourselves friends, she won't have to ruin what you all have. Woman go for assholes by nature because they are attracted to alpha male persona. You must lack that characteristic which is why she remains afraid to commit to a nice guy. Because you l are not showing that side she thinks is "hott" "manly" etc.. show her that you are a man who is willing to risk it all to win her the big prize and show her you can give her that other half
Typically i will just ask people pit for coffee or lunch or somthing chill in a place they pick if i am interested in them, this is just so they can know me and I can know them better. And if they don't want to than i just take that as them not being interested, though i will still be their friend, i just will put any romantic idea on the back burner and try to be a good friend.
I believe girls can be tricky to read. I want girls to be more seductive and take what they want. After me too it feels good to know she is interested in you. If she shows you with physical approaches it’s awesome, because I just want to be nice and please her feelings.
I will notice when I approach her or at the very latest on first date whether she is romantically interested. If not: "It sure was glad to know ya... bye bye!" I just take the pump-gun approach to dating: rapid fire with many bullets, one will eventually hit. "I got the shotgun blues, shotgun blues. I can't wait here forever, I got too much here to lose." Lyrics by GN'R. - Listen to their "Use Your Illusion II" album to get the right feeling...
If you're seeing someone for a long time and you decide that you would like to take it further and she doesn't granted it would be hurtful but I would get over it
True. But I was more referencing a scenario where you haven't even started dating yet. You like her, have approached her, maybe messaging some, but you can't figure out if she is interested in starting something or not.
It’s selfish to keep a friend who wants something more at arm’s distance. They obviously want something more. You have to tell them. I’ve had that a few times and I’m ashamed to say I let them stay that way for a year until they moved on.
There's no such thing as being "just a friend" when it comes to the opposite sex. You're a prospect, benchwarmer, backup whatever you want to call it but you're still being given a chance. It doesn't matter what anyone says, you are still being given a shot regardless of what they say.
Is that a joke? If you're put in the friendzone, no woman has any intentioj of taking it anywhere. You aren't a benchwarmer, you are a friend. This is what ruins friendship between soo manh guys and girls. Is that y'all keep things like this in your mind
@SexyAshh you're wrong. That's all there is to it. If a woman isn't interested in you she either hates you or doesn't know you exist. If she's interested but doesn't know it or hasn't decided, friends zone.
Thats the stupidest thing i have ever heard. I would NEVER in a million years date any of my guy friends. And to call me wrong when im a girl and know, you're an idiot. Keep this mindset, gonna be forever single thinking this😂👍
@SexyAshh What the hell are you talking about? I don't want answers from you. I've got options right now, my bigger issues are dealing with whatever form of mental illness I have that prevents me from maintaining employment or friendships.
@SexyAshh Stop it, Ashh. My questions are meant to be constructive, not sew more gender and social discord. You can disagree with his thinking if you feel otherwise but don't attack or antagonize.
There are many different types of people in the world, and both of you being absolutist and using extremist language doesn't help anything.
@AmandaYVR you realize the conversation was over. And if choose to have an opinion, and try to help someone out who now makes total sense since they have clear mental issues, then i will. Freedom of speech? Get that? Dont like it, block me babe, and save me the work of having to do it to you. K thanks💋✌️
People’s first impression of you? "That im a total bitch. And for the most part its true." "I'm blunt. But people take it the wrong way." "I always find myself competing with both men and women, i want to always be the best of the best."
Freedom of speech my ass. Nasty is just nasty. So "no soup for you." You wanna be ostracized? Fine. Granted.
Hate being there but use it as a way to learn more about her. If that doesn't impress her hopefully you learned something you can use to make her boyfriend look like a loser
Once your in the friendzone, thats your forever place. Trying for more or to make her boyfriend look like a loser does nothing for us but think you're a good friend
I don't really "make moves".. Usually a girl would approach me and let me know in her own weirdo way that she thinks I'm pretty. I usually don't go for girls like that because most of them are just superficial
I can deal with anything but a non-answer. I've been rejected a lot. And i honestly don't see me asking another woman out ever again. It's just not worth it.
Yeah, sorry, I might have gone a little overboard with those. I just like to look at beautiful things too. (Always had a love of photography.) But it could definitely potentially cut more deeply with those beauties.
If it's a clear freindzoning forget her. If you are unsure hang for abit feel it out make a move see what happens. If there's no result ask her out or bail on the freindship or both.
We even put fewer letters in "no" to make it quicker and easier to say. I can't fathom why wemon in aggregate are not competent enough to say a two letter word! They're supposed to be the gender of "better communicators" too!
Okay, okay. But... 1. They don't know. They're still assessing the guy. Nervous, timid, all that. 2. They do know, and the answer's no, but they can't stand being that direct. They think it will hurt the guy more. Which I know is not true, and it wastes the guy's time and energy. But they see it as less harsh/more kind. 3. A select minority like the attention, the desire, the free meal here and there. They suck. Bad, bad, bad.
No, I'm not defending them, I'm merely listing some of the reasons. You'll notice the #3 is clearly very negative, defenceless. #2 is a very, very strong female belief/behaviour/preference of avoiding conflict and what they think is less hurtful to people. (They do this with peers, too. It's a judgement call that most men don't agree with. Females will get offended if others don't agree with them. They are about the appearance of support, not individualism.) To be clear, I understand both sides. I am constantly encouraging pinks to be more direct. They do not want to. It's incongruous to their natures. They need to learn, though. It doesn't have to be one or the other, but a compromise of two philosophies. #1... well yes, you can call it "poor judgement/indecisiveness", and it may well be. But it's also biology that's deeply ingrained. Guys can hurt girls, both physically and emotionally. They're more physically vulnerable, more emotionally sensitive, and as I said earlier, much more particular. And have more risk-aversion. So they don't enter into situations lightly, as easily. They also are more prone to 'overthinking.' They can spin their wheels so much, trying to decide all sorts of things, that they can become paralyzed in indecision, and that feels, to men, as stringing them along. And sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't.
I wrote this question to give men an opportunity to vent. And for the girls on the site to read what it is like, relationships, from men's perspective. But I also somewhat feel it's necessary to explain that not all avoidance is from one cause. Females are complicated. Every guy knows this. They don't have manuals, and there's a lot of specific differences, even when you figure out one, you've got the next one where all the same conclusions can't be applied. My point is, I sympathize with guys. I see many things that you go through. Men are more direct, and I love them for it. They also tend to put their foot in their mouths more often, but for the most part, I wish there could be more of a blending of both attitudes. I can't get the girls to interact more (you see, case in point, 0 pink standalone comments on here, for ex.) But I can get a lot of enjoyment out of interactions with men. You are keeping the dialogue open, not shutting down (you know, except for MGTOWs and all that.) And I commend you for that.
I'm not really that interested in those kinds of terms. They're reductionist and divisive. But it's your prerogative if you want to self-identify like that. I just listened, a few days ago, to a too-long podcast of INCELS and MGTOWS and their views on women and the dating landscape. (Not exactly because I wanted to, but to hear them out for a bit, and as my husband says, to try and understand people. Some of it was justified, but a lot of iss errant thinking and conclusions. They see a pattern, but the cause and effect is where it falls apart in some respects.) Anyway, isn't the typically accepted definition of an MGTOW a guy who has decided he no longer wants any romantic interaction with women? He's tired, fed up. You are talking here, but it's not my personal definition that "fixing things" is not on their list anymore. They're past that.
I don't waste my time with girls. If i like them, i just ask them out on the spot. If they say no, that's good because that would have been a girl that waste my time.
There is a waiting period after that nobody cares just move on there is nothing more to it it ain't no purgatory I guess just leave that we need to understand either leave the person or the thought
Its a judgement call If she's worth the effort then be patient you have your foot in the door and give her your best effort and see if there is any change if not it's your call if she's the one stay an fight the best fight you can and good luck
Clearly I am sympathetic, or I wouldn't have asked the question and allowed you guys to say your peace.
Guys can be evasive and vague too, no doubt about it, and I experienced them being noncommittal, but I do think it's far more an issue with girls, as they favour an indirect approach to communication.
You can ask. But the point is that many won't tell you anything definitive. You're thinking like a guy, not a girl. Girls are vague and circuitous, quite often.
If a girl only sees me as a friend, i simply move on & cut all contact with her. And i wouldn't stick around waiting to see what could happen in the future.
Cut her off immediately. If she is not willing to express her feelings why waste time with her? Equality only when it suits the woman is just hypocrisy.
Home > Dating > Polls > Guys, how do you feel about 'the friendzone', or being left in purgatory, wondering how the girl feels about you, or if she'll ever return feelings?
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