Most people don't want to raise someone else's kids, and a lot of guys don't want kids at all, and most guys don't want their SO's ex in the picture.
This doesn't mean a single mom lacks inherent value, it just means she has far less options for dating than someone without kids, especially if the father of her kids is around.
The odds of a very well behaved, unusually intelligent child, viewing me as his/her only dad, while simultaneously not costing me a fortune, while also having his/her actual dad never return, while also having his/her mom be my type mentally and physically, is so low, that its practically zero (especially since my type wouldn't want kids, so it would have to be an accidental birth that happened under very unusual circumstances, like a failed vasectomy/tube tying, and she simply has the moral fortitude to care for her kid after).
And tbh, even if that rare occurance happened, I'd still opt out of the relationship for other reasons, like my distain for being an authority figure in someone's life, my general disinterest in being a teacher, my desire to have dangerous animals or objects in my home that kids shouldn't be around, and my need to not be bound to another person's schedule, goals, or messes, among other things, like not wanting to have to explain awkward topics to someone too young to be thinking about it.
Sometimes guys just don't want the life they would have if they were with a single mom. Any insults you get probably stem from guys innapropriately taking out their frustration that "yet another match was removed from the dating pool", because "only if she didn't have a kid", because for some reason they feel victimized because you chose or ended up on a path that they don't like.
Childish? sure, but thats the most common version I've seen of this.
As far as pump and dump goes, thats much rarer, and those types of guys pump and dump ANY woman they think is hot, because they don't want actual relationships, and they are just using your current position as mom, as an excuse to "justify" what they would have done anyway if you had no kid.
The only time I would ever agree to be a parental figure for another human, is as the fun uncle, or if I was the actual dad and was victim to the aforementioned accidental kid scenario, because while I don't want kids, I'd never abandon my own.
"This doesn't mean a single mom lacks inherent value, it just means she has far less options for dating than someone without kids, especially if the father of her kids is around."
This is what I agree with. And I am glad to have less options. Unless you are fast woman, single or not, most men are not for you.
My issue is the rather misogynistic and insulting attitude that people have. The reason I asked this question is that I turn down plenty of men but then you get in the internet and men spew nothing but vitriol.
I make my situation known upfront because I have more pressing things to attend to than proving myself to a man. Which I have never done anyway.
I find single fathers who look down on single mothers to be the height of hypocrisy. Anyway divorced fathers have so much distrust of women festering they sabotage relationships.
Because if you aren't looking for a father, it's because the actual father is still around, and thats an instant no from most guys, even ones who are fine being a step dad.
Why on earth would you want a husband who has nothing to do with your kids? That would be the height of awkward for everyone involved.
Of course he would have something to do with my kids. But I am not expecting him to pay for them and replace their actual Dad. I don't know why people interpret statments to the extreme. You're damned if you do and you're famned if you don't.
Father not around = whore who sleeps around. Father is around = I can't deal with another man near kids that aren't even mine.
"Father not around = whore who sleeps around." Actually, I can think of a ton of reasons, like he died, or is a deadbeat, or he's in jail, or you had a sperm donation, etc, the mother being a whore is not the first thought in my head, though it is somewhere on the list.
"Father is around = I can't deal with another man near kids that aren't even mine." Sorry but that one is written in stone. If the dad is still around, no guy is gonna wanna deal with that, and any who accept the position will make any and every attempt to push the dad out of your life, and if they fail, they will leave instead.
Well if a man wants to pushbsomeone who loves my kids outnof their life, i. e. theor father, then that is someone who doesn't truly love kids. Women deal with ex wives all the time. The more people to lovea chold the better. So yeahbO wouldn't want a person loke that anyway. God people are dumb.
You can love your own kid to the point of taking a bullet for them, and still want nothing to do with someone else's, so that claim of yours falls short.
But yeah, good luck on that, the kind of guy who wants an ex around AND won't cheat AND likes kids, is super rare, like unicorn rare.
I'm not saying they don't exist, but I've never seen one. Usually if he is ok with you having the ex around, it means he isn't worried about you staying with him, because he will probably bang other women anyway.
Even if I were a single father, I'd not want to date a single mom who is still in contact with her kid's dad. You can call it hypocrisy all you want, but if the mother of my children was so terrible that we broke up for good, why in the hell would I want her around me or my kids? The only possible reason to keep an ex around, is to get back together.
Well you sorta answered it in the title. The men that would pursue low value women are men who are also low value (intention wise). Single and divorce are not quality of being of low value. Stuff happen in a relationship and things end. Women tend to get custody of the child in a majority of cases. If anything a mother with a pre-started family already has obligations and possibly more mature then others which could be a value a man who wants a family or wants to be with a women with such qualities but does't want to work from the bottom up for it. I mean there are a lot of reasons why they would, easy pickings, quick in and out, experience, maturity but the low value part doesn't ring true in my experience.
I phrased the question that way on purpose because of how people always rag on single mothers disqualifying all of her qualities because her relationship failed. Most of the comments are the usual crass nonsense but its good because single mothers who aren't hot messes need to separate the wheat from the chaff. Thanks!
I’d take what men on the internet say with a grain of salt, a lot of them are incels or have some kind of issues that they can’t express in real life. Plenty of normal men in the real world don’t have an issue with single/divorced mothers, and others won’t be interested it just comes down to what each person wants in life (for example kids, etc.). Again, there’s no such thing as this ‘low value’ and ‘high value’ stuff - its something that sad people on the internet say. No need to worry, majority of people generally don’t think this way :)
Most men really don't have the options they try to portray. Sure, they might slam single moms, women over 30, or overweight women AS IF they have the options to disqualify them and others, but we know it's all for show. We know those men will eventually wife up a 36 year single mom who happens to be a little on the heavy side because that is the extent of their options.
Missing a key point. If those men dont have options... were talking the bottom of the barrel men. Is she ready to accept dating at best low average in order to get the relationship?
@MzAsh "Most men really don't have the options they try to portray. Sure, they might slam single moms, women over 30, or overweight women AS IF they have the options to disqualify them" and so amazing men are these ones with no options? I mean that just doesn't make sense. If they are so amazing why dont they have lots of options?
@DermalPunch probably similar reason girls think a fat ugly guy is a creep. In a way its kind of a diss to assume someone clearly out of your league has a shot. Personally i dont mind being hit on but when they get into that "you need a REAL woman" nonsense then they are just rude as fuck in my opinion
@MzAsh yes one with options and one without. We both seem to agree on that. However it seems you think the ones without options are the catch. Thats where we seem to disagree.
Mega cope. No man who hates single mothers will cuff a 36 year old fat single mother. It's only the low self esteem nice guys that do that. I actually mean nice when I say it too. Incels would rather be incel than lower thereself that much to where they date washed up women who also happen to be fat and single mothers. 💩 end of the stick
And while not all single mothers are bad, they HAVE made bad life choices (widows being the exception to the rule) and then expect a man to clean up their life choices for them, both financially and emotionally. What man needs all that? Especially with women like you sh*tting on them as if they have any right to clean up the toxic waste spill of another woman's bad life choices and promiscous lifestyle leading her to have children out of wedlock or with a terrible life partner, to begin with. And personally, I don't believe in sleeping with single mothers if you don't intend to date them, either.
While they should not be disrespected as you describe, the point is that single moms are not desirable to the vast majority of men because they generally present a much more difficult dating scenario. Their lives are usually more chaotic and there are all sorts of complications, and this gets much more complex when things get serious, not least because there is one or more people the guy has to get along with and who might resent his presence. In addition, there is usually another man involved one way or another because of visitation and the previous relationship with the mother.
So why do men still get involved with single moms? Because the dating pool at certain ages largely consists of them and a lot of guys won't have any woman at all if they aren't dating a single mom.
I partially agree. I think people make the divorced co parenting mother situation much more complicated than it is in reality. I only know my situation and mine is a rarity in terms of how smooth everything is but yes, I get you. And yes, this is a subset of the "single" mother demographic.
I have no interest of any kind in a single mother. I am only interested in someone for a LTR and to create a family with. Single mothers are not what I am looking for and if one showed interest in me I would just say, "We aren't compatible." That is normally my response so I won't hurt someone's feelings, but also not give them false hope with an unclear response.
I'd suggest going after single fathers if you want a relationship because single guys without kids that would be interested in a single mother almost always just want to use her for sex.
I don't go after men. I was in a long abusive marriage and I am really enjoying my kids. Co parenting is smooth and drama-free thankfully. Single fathers are just as inclined to use single mothers for sex. In my experience they have been worse for that.
Im with @DermalPunch on this. I think in your head its easy to imagine this making sense. Brady bunch for example. The issue is the single fathers that are more desirable will tend to have the same attitude towards single mothers that men without children would have. Them having a child is irrelevant to their thought process.
I will never date a woman who had a bastard. That is disgusting, at least for whites/Asians (I know it is different in black culture).
I am fine with women who are mothers. I recently met a wonderful woman whose husband died. She has two beautiful sons. She is an intelligent, honest, honorable woman. She looks to be a good mother and will be a good wife.
now, she needs to be young enough to have my baby (I am looking for a wife). I cannot look down on a widow. Similarly, if a woman divorced because of domestic violence, drugs, alcoholism, gambling, then I understand.
what sickens me are whores and bad wives who divorced their husbands out of boredom. I avoid them like the plague.
Clearly it depends on why she is no longer married, as it would be with a guy the question is what makes you think the relationship would work any better with you?
If a guy just wants a short term relationship to use her he doesn't really care about that question.
Yes or course. I just find the default position is no matter how amazing the woman is she is viewed as a cum dumpster because she has kids no matter what. I do realise that a lot of women do make bad choices. This pump and dump attitude is on both sides. There are many men who have no problem professing love to a single woman doing everything they can to make her believe he is truthful just for some sex and leaves her with all the consequences. He gets his rocks off and she's branded. Thankfully I was never so stupid to fall for that but I just am so sick of people painting a woman as a whore without actually knowing her circumstances.
At a certain age most of the men & women who want to get married as apposed to just playing the field for short term relationships are married. The ones that are left are not married for a reason, so your selection becomes more and more difficult with each passing year.
You need to ask yourself what you need/want and what/where your still likely to get that among the demographic that which remains unmarried.
This is not an easy question to answer for man or woman not knowing too much of the unmarried demographics of the other as to understand their perspective and the full list of reasons.
Learning that perspective would give you a list of unmarried reasons most tolerable/correctable and where to find the demographic that has them. Ultimately you only need one.
All valid points. It's true. My particular issue is that I look much younger than I am and men my age have a lot of hang ups and issues. I am pursued a lot to the point where I have been stalked. And, I don't even engage in premartial sex! I like to get my situation out in the open from jump street to filter out men with the thinking that we see in this thread. Life is messy and no matter how careful or prudent you are stuff happens.
Not to be too blunt, but you need to remember you're selecting the demographic of the men trying to date you by where you go, and what attributes you're looking for.
Be sure that you are in fact not by theses choices working against yourself.
For example: A bar may be a great place to find men but it is also a place where you are most likely to find only a particular sort of men. A coffee shop would represent a different sort, and so on.
Even the place you choose to live and its dominate industries defines the demographic of men your most likely to run into, or not run into.
Example: A small oil town will be more rough men with a higher share of unmarred for want of time at home with women. A tech town will be a higher share of unmarred men for want of social skills, A business town may be more likely to have too many women, leaving a high share of high powered players unmarried.
I am mostly home. I get hit on constantly by men I have to deal with in the marketplace. The grocery store, the flea market, department store, walking down the street. My downstairs neighbour! It's mostly the 22-30 age range. As you can see, I am not in that age range. Anyway, I am just ranting. I don't need to find a solution right now. My kids are more fun tbh.
The incels tend to be loud. Doesn’t make them smart, or correct. Woman with children have value as the games are over, they are sensible and secure. A lot of grown men find that stability attractive.
Yes, I put this post to draw them out of their hovels and filter them out from the beginning. The stability tiing is true. My thiugh was to entertain inly people who were divorced withnkods like myself but they play the most games. It's actually young, mature single guys who have wanted to prove themselves and step up. It was a shocker to me.
Ah yes. And no one is advocating hooking up with deadbeat baby factories. My axe to grind is the devaluing of a woman because she has kids. I mean do all of the qualities that made her attractive and desirable as a partner suddenly evaporate because she has sacrificed her body, mind and soul for another life/lives? Don't want a wkman withbkods, wonderful. Less f*ckboys for her to sift through. But don't be misogynistic.
Yes, by the very definition of the word, you are be prejudiced because the word literally mean to pre-judge. That doesn't mean that you will turn out to be incorrect, of course. But there is definitely no denying that would count as a prejudice. You should be aware of this stereotype and situation for sure because it is an often held one amongst men, but you shouldn't allow the fear of this stereotype being used against you limit your ability to potentially find happiness.
"My M. O. has become to just assume the worst and rebuff any man that shows interest since I am not interested in being pumped and dumped."
Yes this is the only real responsible course of action. 90% of men will only want casual sex. The other 10% are very very low value men even if its not apparent, there is a reason why they would date a single mom instead of just some normal girl.
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
They are only low value if they alienate the father, or are just shitty people.
you already have a husband why are you looking for another man just to commit adultery?
Matthew 5:32
But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery
Matthew 19:8
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning
We don't like whores with illegitimate children. Pump and dump is fine, but never girlfriend or marriage material and no way would any man with self respect touch them for anything other than sex.
you will never find Love... if you don't open the door... if you have the attitude "Prove to me you are worth my Love" you will find men that want to be with you
Yes and sometimes they become friends with benefits then she gets knocked up then he goes back to her. That’s why I never date single mothers. it’s also very very rare to fine single mother who will never go back to their child’s fathers who has violences and criminal records
I'm starting to see that there are different categories of women who are single with kids. If somwone does that theybwere probably not a great catch before kids either.
I had lots of bad experiences with single mothers who liked me but they all went back to her kids biological fathers after awhile and had more kids with them. Again there is some single mothers who won’t and never go back to their kids biological fathers those ones are hard to find like finding the right woman. This is my experiences with single mothers
Cool. My whole point is that it is really unfair to paint someone who displays good charcter, morals and is otherwise an exemplary person as nothing more than a semen receptacle because she has children. If she acts loose nasty and then fine. Don't fry Peter in Paul's fat is what I am saying.
Well I agree with you. I love to talk and interact with mature ladies and enjoy their conversations too :) Its not all about sex :) Its about friendship, company, mutual understanding etc :)
So single mothers are only good for sex and nothing else and if should just forget about ever having a meaningful relationship for the rest of her life. Correct?
You kinda had your chance and you blew it. It’s possible to find another, but very very very very unlikely. Just focus on you kids and teach them not to make the same mistakes you did
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