You don't see a lot of single moms in my culture that's why am asking, so once a girl here on gag told me it's because you have to date her and her kids as well, but what other reasons could be? 🤔 Is it possible that guys fear that she wants a shoulder to lean on?
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Thanks everyone for your opinions, For those people who said " same reason why women avoid single dads " guess what? it's not that easy because you have to answer my other question about single dads, lol ladies of gag won't show mercy :)
This isn't true though. A lot of men date single moms, including more successful men. I've honestly never known a single mother who had a hard time attracting men. And some of the single mothers I know are dating very financially successful men. Part of that is that as people get older, more people on both sides of the gender aisle have already had kids. Men who have children often appreciate women who have children because they know they understand serious responsibility and if they see them raising their own children well, thats a huge turn on in terms of how she might care for any children they might have, including his own. Also, time and priority. Women who dont have children may not understand what dating a guy with kids is like. If she also has a child - relatability in terms of life experiences and expectations on time and the kids as priorities. Here in the US, we have a lot of divorce so lots of single dads. I'd actually guess that a minority of those men specifically focus on women who don't have any kids.
I've known single moms since I was in college. Almost all of them had men in their lives. One of my close friends is getting divorced (has been in process for the past 2 years, she has a 2 year old child with her cheating ex). One of her ex's friends literally swooped in on her when the coast was clear. He's buying her expensive gifts, taking her out to $500 dinners, and is very much in love with her. They're already talking about rings. He can see what kind of woman she is - she did everything for her husband and her child, started a business that folded on top of working a full time job, cares about her community and has been involved in projects to clean up her neighborhood, and she's now getting her MBA. Her being a single mother didn't stop him from going after hard pretty hard.
There are a ton of women who remarry statistically after having children. How are millions of women remarrying with kids if men are avoiding them? I can only speak for "first world" countries though. I'm sure in more developing countries that often have more conservative ideals, single mothers have a much harder time.
Here in the USA, it's more accurate to say "some men avoid single moms." I have never seen any credible data that proves that most men strongly avoid single mothers. Some men do, many don't.
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But sure, some do avoid them. I also am not sure I want to date a single dad, even at my age of 31. Just wanted to communicate that many do date single mothers.
Hmm, but that's not what the data shows and thats definitely not what you see in major cities, where people tend to focus on career, education, and success.
In the USA, the majority of men marry women close to their age. I think the average age difference is like 2 -4 years. Large age gaps are less common. Wealthier, successful men (like the guy I mentioned that my friend is dating) have the resources to throw money at young, inexperienced girls who are arguably much easier to impress. And many do, but most end up marrying women within their age group. The guy she's dating could be throwing that money at a 21 year old, but he chose not to. Not everyone wants to actually date someone much younger. Hell, he could have even chosen someone who didn't just have a kid, but he liked her anyway. That's how this works out in the real world.
Most couples in the US have a small age gap. Large age gaps are not unheard of, but definitely not the norm here. In terms of serious relationships, large age gaps are less common for marriage and among those that do get married, the rates of divorce are *astronomically higher* than couples with small age gaps. You're basically guaranteed to divorce if you have an age gap of 10 years or more. The marriages that stand the best change of divorce are when both people are in their late 20s to early/mid 30s. Young couples have a higher rate of divorce and large gaps have a crazy ridiculous rate of divorce.
And I want to reemphasize that dating young girls is not that difficult. If anything, it's actually easier in many ways, which is the appeal for some specific types of men - more naive, more likely to be impressed by the bare minimum, she hasn't learned what red flags indicate behavior she doesn't want to deal with, easier to manipulate and control, etc. Some of the young girls I know don't even need the guy to have that much to be impressed by him. They don't know much about the world and they don't have much of anything of their own, so the bar is much lower compared to educated, older women with careers. I've known of old guys who have little to nothing going for them, who date very young girls. Guys I would never date, nor would any of my friends. So I find it hard to agree with what you're saying. If anything, it seems like some guys go for young girls because older women are way too much for them to handle. Young girls are much more likely to be submissive and naive, unaware of red flags, emotional abuse, etc.
For a lot of men, older women are preferred for actual relationships because of similar experiences, relatability, intellectual and educational compatibility, maturity, same interest in serious commitment, and also proximity. Most doctors and lawyers here in NYC, for example, are NOT marrying 21 year olds. They usually date and definitely marry women who are older and have established careers as well. A lot of them don't want to be sugar daddies or used for the money they have worked hard to earn. I've had guys my age even tell me they think young girls are "dumb / so fucking stupid and annoying" and that they tried dating them, but having stimulating conversations was too difficult and they couldn't handle it anymore. I think that's harsh, because the girls are still growing up, but guys have told me that bluntly. Men who have more to offer as whole may be looking for more in relationships and that can be hard to find with someone who is still coming into their own and really still learning about the world and themselves. These men have more education, status, and money than most normal men and still don't flock to young girls for marriage. So I have to conclude that you're incorrect. In 2021, the successful doctor 9 times out of 10 is not going to marry the college intern. They're married to other doctors or high profile career women half the time, or at least women who are old enough to provide what they see as a proper match. That's just what I see in the world and what the numbers show.
And these days, older women are dating young men too more often, which is an interesting and welcome development. I think the truth is actually scary for some men so they hold onto old fashioned ideas about what womens options are. The reality you're talking about seems to only be extremely present in developing countries where womens rights are still developing and religious or conservative ideals have a stronghold on society. That norm starts to disappear rapidly when societies develop economically, women gain more rights and respect, and costs of living go up. In NYC, for example, beyond everything else I've mentioned, it's very expensive to support a woman with no career. Access to the best neighborhoods and school districts for your children = a lot of money. A man who makes a high salary but isn't super wealthy may not want to sacrifice outcomes for his children or environment even though can technically food the bill. But even guys who can, may question what kind of child rearing is going to come from someone uneducated, etc. I think certain types of men think about these things. Many men don't, but I've spoken to men who definitely don't want just any young girl raising their families, and some qualities they want are just more easily found in older women. That includes self-awareness, wisdom, maturity, education, etc. - all of which generally improve over time.
Now, one of the major issues is that women are outperforming men in terms of education these days, so finding a compatible match can be harder and more couples have a more educated woman, but NYC and other major US cities probably have different numbers than the country in general. Side note.
Ya know, single dads make really good partners for single moms. Just sayin... . There are 3 single moms in my life that are special to me because they recently lost their husbands to freak deaths. They have a special place in my heart. They are good people.
I am a single dad who is with a single mom and I agree with this 100%. We both dealt with bad relationships in the past. Both of us are good with children and treat all the kids as family. It has been good for the kids and for us.
I sympathize with you and your friends, but sympathy doesn't make a good basis for a new relationship. I don't want to date someone when the relationship is all about the kids from day one... and somebody else's kids at that.
It's a little less of a problem if the kids are out on their own. But that 50 something mom is still living her life revolving around her kids. That's understandable, but not necessarily conducive to a new relationship.
@RingOfFire I think parents in general tend to make the mistake of having their lives revolve around the kids. My girlfriend and I, both of us single parente, talked about it and decided that the relationship will not suffer due to the kids, because the whole point of raising kids is to prepare them to leave and to have relationships of their own that will be healthy when they have their own children. The kids need attention and guidance, but they don’t need helicopter parents and must learn to entertain themselves at times.
@RealMarek yup. Hit the nail on the head. I’m still married but I’m not helicopter parenting my kids. When they come in and try to have me break up a fight I encourage them to work it out on their own. I call out tattling.
Hell we even lock the master bedroom door and have sex with the kids in the house.
@RealMarek fuck yeah! Goes something like this “mommmm I just beat bowser in super Mario.” Me: “good for you buddy that’s awesome (meanwhile I’m riding hubs).
The inherent responsibility that comes with staying with a single mom long-term is ultimately being step daddy eventually. Even if she's not asking you to be that right now.
On average, Single moms tend to want a higher level of commitment earlier on because most single moms tend to feel a bit out of control in their life.
So they tend to want you as an emotional stable point in her life. Meaning tends to want you to commit sooner or have a more serious dating process out the gate.
Understanding at best you come third to her kids and herself. If your wants and her wants are the same then cool you've been bumped up to coming second to her kids rather than third.
While at the same time she tends to want you to put her first rather than yourself, when she and her kids come before you on the other end.
Potential baby daddy drama that you'll be included in. Or if she's in the middle of a divorce you'll have to hear about that drama and deal with her emotions in the meantime till it passes.
Depending on how she deals with those stresses this may or may not be a common issue. But erratic behavior based on anything from abandonment issues from a failed marriage or baby daddy leaving her, or her comparing you to him in a way that you might be judged for his past behavior.
a lot of girls might do this in general but more common for a single mom to see you do a thing and immediately make the ex comparison and treat you as such even if you're not actually exhibiting the behavior. It's her perceiving it as something her ex did and reacting.
Non single mothers do this sometimes but single moms more so.
Developing a relationship with her kids with the risk of a breakup truly cutting you of from them and zero rights to see them. If she says you don't have a relationship with them. That's it. Not your kids.
If you do move in together. You have to pre approve your choice of discipline for the kids and if at any time she isn't as okay with it she can pull the "MY CHILD" card on you.
Ultimately it's a dammed if you do damned if you don't because you risk punishment for any choice you make with a single mom.
I'll date singer moms but not exclusively and only one ever made me consider changing that. Veeeery rare. A single mom has to put in work to be a option worth considering something serious because of the downsides.
Since most do not and have an attitude of "well he has to deal with my kids" rather than handling genuine concerns, the average single mom can expect to jump from guy to guy.
Because the average guy instinctually understands these problems even if he can't verbalize them yet. I remember being 15 with zero experience in this area or seeing examples and just instinctually wondering why a guy would dedicate to a woman and raise another man's children.
When you date a girl who has no kids, if she falls in love with you, then you are her highest priority. When you date a girl who has two kids, if she falls in love with you, then you are her third highest priority. And everything you want to do is complicated by her having kids. Want to go away for the weekend? Can't because she has the kids. Want to have sex in the afternoon? Can't because she must pay attention to her children.
Guys are capable of adapting to these challenges and becoming great fathers, but most of them do it gradually. The get married, everything is still great. She gets pregnant, they have 9 months to prepare, the baby is born and he is so filled with love for HIS child that he easily changes his lifestyle. It is much more difficult to do that suddenly for someone else's children.
And then you get asked things like "Can you pick up little Snark from day care?" but when it's time to make a decision, you hear "that's not your decision to make because you're not his parent."
Third priority... or 10th.. after her ex, random friends, co-workers. Some of these women are a 'little' confused and giving them attention just puts fuel on the fire.
oh there's a myriad of reasons why men do avoid single moms.
Short story, oh that's her kid? well, that's not really not my problem. go back to your ex... somehow or someway.
long story...
A. her Children comes first and that's completely fine and i get that. but do keep in mind that Her children are first on the priority list, then comes her family, then her dog/cat, her job, social life (may include those groups of women that hate men), her ex husband and the goes on until you're dead last.. and your role is just being an ATM for their needs only.
Yea, how do you feel about a dog who has a higher hierarchy than you? yes. an animal. let that sink in for a bit.
B. She may likely not have the time to spend with you. she's busy, also understandable. she has way more responsibilities than you. She can't come out to dinner because junior is sick and that's okay as well. Want to introduce her to your family? she can't. she's taking her kids to disney world.
C. her ex-husband may want to come back to restart the family again so where does that leave you?
out the door.
D. it's an investment that may or may not pay off. you may eventually get with her, may not.
E. try to discipline her kid and you automatically receive the "WAAHHHH YOU NOT MAH DADDY!" speech. may cause the mom to also retaliate as well like "Jeez, John, what is wrong with you?"
F.--------
You know what? it just stacks up and up, and for some of us guys it's not worth the risks involved with a single mom. it's easier to find a girl who doesn't have kids and it's a healthier relationship, not where it's only one sided relationship with a single mom.
Some guys don't like kids. They might think that they won't get a lot of time with the mom as she might have her hands full depending on how many kids she has. The more kids a mom has the less likely a guy will want to date her. There is a guy that I work with that has the worst standards when it comes to dating women. First and foremost is that she can't have any kids which is a great thing because this guy would make a shitty father. Some guys are scared that the mom might be looking for a daddy for her kids or support for her kids. They don't want to feel obligated to take care of someone else's kids.
But, there are guys that step up to the plate and knock it out of the park. A guy that trained me for a job who is more like a brother to me married a woman that has three kids from a previous marriage or relationship. These kids weren't the most well behaved but my friend accepted the challenge and he didn't take no shit from her kids. He didn't let the mom dictate how he disciplined her kids. He raised them and now the very troubled daughter has turned her life around and graduated college and the two boys have joined the military. He also gave the mom a better life. Helped pay off all her debt, improve her credit, and start her own busy.
1. You're always going to be dead-last in importance to her, in her life. 2. You can never date one without always having to see the kid, as well. 3. If the kid doesn't like you, she won't like you, which means having to please two people at the cost of one. 4. She won't have much time for you between raising her kid and her job. 5. She's ALWAYS going to expect you to do dad sh*t, no matter what BS she tries to tell you like "I'm not looking for a father for him." 6. Most kids are not well behaved, nor do they respond well to men in their home who aren't their father, and her kids likely won't be some perfect little angel or darling who gets along with you. 7. If the kid is a brat (and they likely are), you have little power to control or discipline them. 8. It's literally twice as much work, if not more, with nothing positive out of it.
Dating single moms is ONLY worthwhile for cucks, single fathers, and men who want kids but can't conceive any. I'm a teacher and I don't want kids. And I certainly don't want to take my work home with me.
I tried dating one, that was a single mom, and the douchebag father disappeared. Her little girl was 6 years old, and the cutest little one! We just could never have time, to be together, and have anything like a relationship, because her daughter, ABSOLUTELY comes first, but she feels bad, cancelling, not having anyone to care for the child, and I feel bad, not able to be with her. I don't know how to make that kind of thing work, and make an adult relationship work, as well. I am NOT, in ANYWAY, AGAINST trying again, but I don't know much of anything more, now, that could make another relationship better, or anything less than disappointing all of us, and ending badly. Since that one, I have met several single moms, either in a similar situation, or just separated, and one, just recently divorced. I liked all of them, but it's hard to get into, and try another relationship, without anything new, or someone telling me, and sharing their way of making THAT WORK! Not 'avoiding' these wonderful women, just not knowing enough to make that kind of relationship work!
Because they are damaged goods, one has to wonder why was she divorced/dumped, was it because she got pregnant young and got left alone? Means she is very unreliable and careless, was it because she is crazy abs got dumped? Well no thanks, was it because her black ex used her like any gullible white slut and left her when she got pregnant? Means she has zero self respect and won’t be a traditional marriage material. Today the world is getting crazier and very degenerate and single moms are a symptom of that problem
"won't be traditional marriage material". I can't argue with this. Because in cases where I have seen them get into a "traditional" marriage the guy always ends up following her and she calls the shots. The girl grows up to think she's a dude and the boys grow up to think they're feminine. Maybe it's fixable but that'd require both parties to do some very hard work.
Sudden shift of responsibilities and introduces arguments about parenting and discipline.
Not having had kids myself, I get the "you don't know what it's like so shut up and let me handle it" while their kid is screaming bloody murder (sorry, correction, "expressing themselves").
As other people have mentioned, there is also the whole "selling yourself to her AND her kid/s" aspect as well. (Although if I'm being honest, sometimes the kid is more fun and easier to get along with than the mother...)
The problem is that there's a big difference in how a male handles discipline versus 99% of females and these differences are needed to raise healthy kids. Feminists have the theory that men & women are the same so (step) dads & (step) dad's ideas are disposable. A boy raised without a strong male role model (because the (step) dad let mom weaken his authority) is NOT the same as a boy raised with a good role model!
well if you think short term and just want sex, it doesn't "really" matter. but if you think long term, a single mom means that you're gonna be the dad of her already existing children, likely having to deal with her ex and likely having to deal with all that "you're not my daddy" nonsense sooner or later... so i have a counter question for you: why take all that burden, when you can just take a siingle woman that does not already have children?
Nobody wants to raise somebody else's crotch-fruit. Either gender. And you'll NEVER be any single parent's priority, EVER. The kids, their job, their family, their ex, will ALWAYS take priority. What a thankless effort... more like a total waste.
And worse, if you do take up with one, and volunteer for the stepping thing, neither the kids nor their parent will EVER properly appreciate you. EVER. No matter the thought and effort you put forth. It's simply taken for granted. And you'll not have final say on ANYTHING, even the kids know this.
No, this is a giant mistake. If you want a family, start your own. You can't just join onto an existing one. For a LOT of reasons.
I have children. Looking after children involves sacrifice of time and money. If that's not your kid why would you do that when you could go with a childless woman and have children of your own?
The relationship might not work out. Maybe the kid's Dad was a piece of shit and she ended up single through no fault of her own, or maybe she caused the end of the relationship. You don't know that, and she's probably not going to admit fault even if she was at fault. So then you've bonded with her and the kid, and you've sacrificed your time and money looking after the kid with her, she is unstable, and it ends. Now what? Well it's not your kid, you won't see him/her again... Or you could go date this other childless woman.
That can happen, and that is a horrible thing. Most of the time that's not the case however, and still the point is that many men, myself included, simply would not be willing to raise another man's child.
I’m in a tough place where we lost 2 friends at the age of 39 recently. Each leaving behind young children. And a 50 year old person close to us who had children in their early 20s.
That is obvious, single mothers will always put their little brats ahead of you in everything. I dated a couple single mothers but will never date another one. Their little brats will hate you, they will do everything to destroy your relationship and the single mother will ALWAYS take their side.
Single parents just need to stay single until their little brats are grown and out of the house, then you might be able to have a relationship with their mother, until then, the only way I would go near a single mom is for a no strings hook-up and only if she came to my place. I would never go to her house as I would never want to deal with her kids.
The only single moms I have known that have been half-way descent are the ones that are widowed but if the kids dad is still in the picture, STAY AWAY. Then the widowed ones also have their problems as they usually let their kids get away with murder.
maybe it's culture? I don't see that issue here, I'm dating single/w kids. The kids are fine, as is the X. It's normal challenges of any relationship. But there can be more complexity due to some X,'s the kids, etc.. Certainly... the kids are #1 priority, so gotta accept that.
Man is taking on more potentially... depends upon the needs. Some people ok with that, some not. I don't know the culture... some single women used to be devalued for their status in life, I think Christianity changed that, at least for some cultures.
A woman by herself may feel entitled to a steak dinner at a fancy restaurant. A woman with 2 kids feels entitled to 3 steak dinners at a fancy restaurant plus 2 pairs of kid shoes, and you babysitting while she's "studying" for college exams with her male friend. Just not worth the hassle. Women love to talk about freedom & then act surprised when us men exercise our freedom.
It's because those of us familiar with single motherhood know there is a lot of chaos, drama and extra work and a lot less time spent alone with your partner. I was raised by a single mom, so I've seen it from a kid's side. No one wants to put themselves through that if they have the option of dating a woman without kids. And that's before any financial issues.
Why raise someone else's kid (s) instead of investing in your own?
I wasn't aware that they do. There are a couple great kids who call me dad, even though their mom and I didn't end up tying the knot. They are adults now, but I never considered them an obstacle or an impediment to living with their mom. I only regretted the lack of parental responsibility and respect for their mother, that was due, but never fourthcomming, from their biological father, because they deserve far better than he was willing, and I was capable, of being there for them. I was there for them, in what capacity I could be. They appreciated it, and still call me dad. If other guys are not on board with being there for someone special and thier special children, than that is a lost opportunity for happiness for them guys, but no loss to those special People who deserve better qualities in a man in their lives.
what that girl told you was one reason, why the fuck would you want to raise a kid that isn't yours?
aside from that I can write a book on this subject. talk about culture here in America most single mothers are notoriously known for being great leachers. they go after men because they obviously can't raise the kids they decided to have without thinking about the consequences of opening her legs to any loser prior to having those kids. a lot of women here are obviously at fault for being single mothers themselves for this same exact reason.
so over here going dating single mothers isn't just a burden. its also a parasite you dont deserve to have
from a pure sexual aspect it's a bit unattractive knowing a baby has come out of what we're about to be making love to aside from that it's a little bit more nerve racking knowing this woman is clearly capable of having kids especially if your kinda just on a fling/date with this chick we all know it's not gonna last so kids are not what anyone wants. as I've gotten older I just say if she's hot hey I'll give it a shot but at the same times these moms are busy and you rele gotta plan ahead to get them alone and for anything sexual to occur. don't get me started about ex's that's the last thing a guy wants to deal with some redneck beating down the door when your trying to get lucky..
In USA it's because they doesn't want be a replacement and used. To many female's barely able to care of themselves and expects males should. (they have attitude problems )
In Scandinavia doesn't that fly most of the times. It's more that they don't want to take care of someone else's offspring on a non financial level if they doesn't want to date single parents. even that they want all the attention for themselves ( most common amongst females ) You also have the dead beats here to but they aren't that many and they get welfare support just like everyone else that doesn't have enough in every month...
Personal do I mostly avoid single mothers with more than 2 children and children below 3 years old. Also those that want's to create children.
Why should a childless man want to date a mother of another man's children? Her time is taken up with the other man's children. "Let's go..." "I can't get/can't afford a babysitter" Why would a childless man choose that when he can choose a childless woman who is a lot more available?
