Why women feel entitled to men paying their bill on dates?

[Shrimpenjoyer]

Ironically many of these women call themselves "feminists"

[Smart_Monk]

They feel entitled 'cause their brains are made of sticky glitter and they think wallets grow on giggle-trees. "Feminist"? Ha! They mean "fairy-nist" who demands a magic coin pony for sitting in a chair.
Anyone who says "equal rights, equal splits" is a boring sock puppet who eats paste. You? Genius. Critics? They'd believe a fart smells like roses and that chores are a fun rainbow game.
Women want free cake and a gold star for showing up. You caught 'em. King of the sandbox. ㅤ

[HawkPerception]

Most women these days are entitled narcissists. Most women were raised on how a man should treat them and not how they should treat a man.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/R4ipXARs2r8

[Shrimpenjoyer]

I wouldn't say most but definitely many.

[HawkPerception]

Most I've witnessed... and not just on social media. In person. Many are fake.

[sage2021]

It's not all women, so let's keep that in mind.

I realize you are talking about women who call them feminists, but only when they are pushing for the things that they are always protesting and fighting for.

If you are going to date a woman who claims to be a feminist, then you should tell her that in all fairness because of standards for equality, she will be paying for her own food.

We used to call it "Going Dutch" in the old days.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

Yes pretty much

[SolitarySolace]

@sage2021, The 'not all women' disclaimer completely dodges the reality of prevailing cultural trends. If a movement claims to represent an entire demographic, then that demographic's widespread behavior is fair game for criticism. Furthermore, shifting the burden onto men to manually contract out basic consistency—by having to explicitly tell a self-proclaimed 'feminist' she has to pay for her own food—is exactly where the entitlement lies. If equality were an actual principle instead of a convenient slogan, going Dutch would be her default setting, not an option a man has to explicitly negotiate for just to avoid getting fleeced on the first date.

[sage2021]

@Shrimpenjoyer

It's got nothing to do with culture!

I always use that disclaimer because it really bugs me when someone says "women" or "men".
Like when someone asks a question and starts it with "Why are women..."
"Why are men..."

We are all different and can't all be the same.

[SolitarySolace]

@sage2021, Claiming that widespread dating expectations have 'nothing to do with culture' is factually absurd. Social scripts, gender roles, and financial norms are the literal definition of culture. Human behavior does not exist in a vacuum; it is entirely shaped by shared social expectations. Declaring that 'we are all different' is a lazy evasion used to paralyze any meaningful discussion about social trends. If a dominant cultural movement spends decades altering laws, tax codes, and workplace structures in the name of group equality, we have every right to critique how that demographic handles personal accountability. You cannot claim collective group empowerment on one hand, and then hide behind individual uniqueness the second someone calls out the group's financial entitlement. Pointing out exceptions doesn't change the unfair default setting.

[sage2021]

@SoiltarySolace

Oh... okay- you can always pay if you insist!

[SolitarySolace]

@sage2021, Thanks for perfectly demonstrating my point about lazy evasions. Reducing a global civilizational collapse down to a flippant joke about individual dinner bills is exactly how people hide from structural realities. This isn't about personal dating etiquette. The point is a structural double standard: if modern culture demands absolute equality in careers, status, and power, then a strict 50/50 split in financial accountability across all aspects of society should be the unquestioned, default expectation—not something a woman generously allows a man to do 'if he insists.' You cannot celebrate the destruction of mutual interdependence on one hand, and then expect traditional financial roles to remain intact when it benefits you. Engage with the actual demographic argument instead of a deflection.

[sage2021]

Shrimpenenjoyer

I am not a faminist so how should I have answered your question ❓

I don't mean to sound rude, but man, you sure are argumentative and I couldn't stand to be around you with the attitude you keep.
Lighten up man!

[SolitarySolace]

You're so rattled by basic logic that you can't even keep your usernames straight. Shrimpenenjoyer wrote three words, but you're directing your emotional meltdown about someone being 'too argumentative' at him instead of me (SolitarySolace). When you're done tone-policing the wrong person to escape an uncomfortable debate, try actually addressing the structural double standards I brought up. If you can't defend the hypocrisy, just take the loss and move on.

[sage2021]

Thank you for the MHO 🙂🧡

[Shrimpenjoyer]

Were you talking to me or the other guy?

[Shrimpenjoyer]

@SolitarySolace you get what I mean bro

[SolitarySolace]

@Shrimpenjoyer For sure, man, I tracked you completely and knew exactly what you meant. It’s just funny watching them get so flustered by basic logic that they can't even keep our usernames straight anymore. It is a classic distraction tactic—when people cannot actually defend the structural double standards we are calling out, they start tone-policing and deflecting to escape an uncomfortable truth.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

@SolitarySolace

[Shrimpenjoyer]

@SolitarySolace I think she really is just confused

[Miristheiss]

@SolitarySolace
Some people just cannot have an honest conversation. They use EXCEPTIONS to try and negate the rule.
They cannot discuss GENERAL NORMS,
they immediately go to the what if exceptions. They just derail the point and reality that MOST women expect this.

[Taurus_Woman]

It’s not accurate to say women in general feel entitled to men paying. Expectations about dating bills vary a lot between individuals, cultures, age groups, and personal values. In many cultures, men were historically expected to be providers and pay on dates. Some people still follow that pattern. Many women today prefer splitting the bill.

[OneViewpoint]

I don't know what women all these guys on the internet are dating but I haven't seen these bad behaviors that are ascribed to "all women". At least in my area, with me, I've found most women 25 to 55 to be very conscious of "fairness" when it comes to paying. I've had women chatting me up buy me a drink. I've had women offer to split the bill. I've had women pay my entire tab without telling me first when we're not even on a date. That's some pretty generous behavior.

Does every woman do stuff like that? No. But I think there's confusion these days and some women are just indecisive about what to do in a given situation. So they wait for the man to take the lead. Not cheap, just timid.

Is it always a sense of fairness or generosity? Maybe not. Some women may not want to create a situation where they feel an obligation (for sex) may be implied. But the belief that all women are parasites who feed off poor unsuspecting men doesn't hold up in the real world where I live.

Personally if I buy a woman or her group a round of drinks, I'm not expecting a damned thing. I do it because we're having a good time in the moment and it feels like the right thing to do to keep the fun going, same as I do when I'm out with a group of buddies. Somebody buys a round, someone else picks up the next round. Someone always makes out on the deal. No worries, they keep that in their head and will be the first one to buy a round next time.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

@OneViewpoint nobody said all women bro, but it's just too many of them.
I am especially talking about those who proclaim themselves "feminists" then whine about having to provide.

If she is a "traditional" women, a true one, then it's ok I guess.

[OneViewpoint]

@shrimpenjoyer,

So in your mind that woman screaming she's a feminist on the internet is also the woman you meet in a bar who's just having a friendly chat or the woman you met on a dating app who doesn't offer to pay on a first date. Do you see the cognitive dissonance in your reasoning? You're taking one person who is acting like a nutcase behind a keyboard and projecting that onto every other woman you meet in real life.

Personally I've never run into even one woman in person who was loudly proclaiming herself to be a feminist.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

@OneViewpoint how about you read twice before replying?

I said I am not projecting this into all women, I said many of them are like this, and that's a fact.

They don't need to be "screaming" on the internet, i have observed their hypocrisy come out in different ways.

Again, to summarize the problem, their hypocrisy is the problem.
They want the benefits, but not the obligations of equality.

[OneViewpoint]

How about you read what you write. I quote...

"Why women feel entitled to men paying their bill on dates?"

That implies you think all women feel entitled. There was no qualifier in your question.

Then you go on in the details section to say that many of these women identify as feminists.

Well I haven't seen the entitlement. Nor have I seen the declaration of feminism that would make them hypocrites anywhere in the real world. It makes me wonder if you've met any women in the real world. Or maybe things are different in Albania.

I'll say it again, you're taking bullshit you've seen on the internet and applying that to women in general.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

@OneViewpoint no it doesn't. When I write women, anybody with some common sense assumes I'm talking about many but not all women.

It's like when women say "why men cheat on their wifes" you don't assume they are asking for "all" men, right?

Lol just because you haven't seen something it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, you are not the all seeing eye.

And by the way, if you haven't understood yet, women on the internet are real people, who walk among us in real life.
And on the internet people are more real than in real life, cause they have the freedom to express themselves without restrictions.

[Mark_Est]

The stats are pretty clear, most women expect men to pay. And its normal biological trait. However it is traditional.

A womans traditional role is to be a virgin for her husband.

Entitlement comes when you aren't traditional yourself but expect that from men.

[Finchie40]

Because whoever asked who on the date should be the one paying , it’s the respectful thing to do if you ask someone on a date , Now if they asked you on a date , then they should be the one paying for the date. Not expecting you to pull out your wallet to pay the bill

[Shrimpenjoyer]

99% of the time is the man asking

[Finchie40]

So they should be paying for the date

[Shrimpenjoyer]

No...

[Finchie40]

Then good luck with that mindset on trying to get a girl to want to be with you , because most of them won’t

[robocop666]

so you pay 100% of your dates. Is this cause you want to or you believe you will be single otherwise?

[Finchie40]

If I ask her on a date , then yes I am paying for it , like if I ask her to go get dinner and drinks , it’s on me , if I ask her to go to the movies , it’s my treat , now if she goes and she wants to buy all this extra shit , then yes she better be pulling out her wallet lol but overall it’s the respectful thing to do. I’m not going to ask a girl to go out with me and expect her to pay for the date. I once had a girl ask me to go to the casino with her and I said ok , when we got to the casino , she put her hand out to me expecting me to pay for her gambling , I said you don’t have money to gamble , and she said no, so I said ok , wait right here let me find an ATM machine , I then kept walking out the Exit door and bailed on her ass.

[robocop666]

casinos are a tax on stupidity. smart move.

[Finchie40]

I like gambling once in awhile , I don’t allow myself to go overboard and I know when to walk away , I have some nice money from it because I know when to walk away , but unfortunately there are a lot of people that don’t know when to walk away , why these casino’s are still on business, so if I choose to gamble , I go with a set amount , usually a hundred bucks sometimes lower , if I break even , I will walk or if I lose it all I will walk or if I hit more than what I came in with , I will walk as well, my thing is once I hit and win I stop and take the money and leave , I know some people take their winnings and assume they are
Going to hit more , which is stupid to do

[AviatorTom]

Basic rule is that the host pays. On a date, that's the person who asked you out on the date and that's usually the man.

Having said that, if the woman wants to pay for some or all of the date, that's fine with me.

[Screenwriter]

It's an old practice drummed into women's brains. Women need to be brought up to be fair with their men. On early dates, no matter who asks whom, split the bill, go to inexpensive places. Later on work something out that mirrors your finances.

THat's what's right.

[SolitarySolace]

@Screenwriter Spot on. Splitting the bill on early dates and choosing inexpensive places completely strips the transactional entitlement out of modern dating. It ensures both people are there for genuine connection rather than a subsidized meal. True fairness requires a conscious effort to override those outdated, one-sided expectations.

[Screenwriter]

@SolitarySolace I find it very sad that these practices continue. It disadvantages both participants.

[SolitarySolace]

@Screenwriter Exactly. It creates resentment on both sides. One person feels entitled, the other feels used, and the date starts to feel like a transaction instead of two people genuinely seeing if they connect. Splitting early on keeps things fair and low-pressure.

[Static_In_The_Attic]

NOWADAYS there are so many people that feel entitled in this world it’s absolutely insane. As for SOME women they feel entitled to having a man pay on dates & SOME don’t. On the other side of things SOME men feel entitled to sex after those dates & SOME don’t. As for men let’s face it we’re looking for Booty Calls & nowadays a lot of women are taking us on FOODIE CALLS & if a FOODIE CALL leads to a BOOTY CALL that’s a bonus & if you are on a date & a foodie call leads to a booty call just remember CONDOMS Prevent MINIVANS & make sure your raincoat is on.

[Sirenboobzilla]

Without taking tradition into account, the one who invites usually pays. In dating, men are normally the ones asking us out to dinner/etc. I was raised to expect to pay my share, or at the very least offer to pay my share.
There are some women, however, that do expect the man to pay for 100% of every little thing and will berate and call the man "broke" for just not wanting to. I've always felt those women give us a bad name.

[Mark_Est]

"Without taking tradition into account let me tell you about traditions"

Dude😅

Traditional women get traditional treatment. Modern women get modern treatment. Simple

[Sirenboobzilla]

Reading comprehension is an important thing.

My first sentence is a statement onto itself. The person who invites usually pays. That's polite etiquette for any outing, dating or otherwise.

I'm well aware of of the difference between traditional and modern women. I'm so aware, that I even stated that I already have the expectation, or the notion, of paying for myself. Making me *dramatic music here* modern...

[Mark_Est]

Perhaps you dont know the meaning of that word?

A tradition is simply a belief or custom passed down through generations. When you say you follow a rule because of how you were 'raised,' you are describing the exact definition of following a family tradition.

[Sirenboobzilla]

And?

[Mark_Est]

Contradictions are fun. Dont be butthurt

[Phunk_Fenomenon]

Because some women confuse being valued with being financially covered. They see the man paying as proof of interest, effort, or masculinity. But in a supposedly equal dating culture, that expectation becomes hard to defend.

A man paying voluntarily is generosity. A woman expecting it automatically is entitlement.

[SolitarySolace]

The financial entitlement on dates completely exposes the fraud of modern feminism. You cannot aggressively demand total equality in the workplace, the legal system, and social status, while simultaneously demanding traditional chivalry the exact second the restaurant check arrives. Modern feminism has conditioned a generation of women to reject traditional gender roles when it comes to duties or expectations, yet they eagerly demand those same traditional roles when it financially benefits their wallet. Picking and choosing when to apply 'equality' based entirely on financial convenience isn't liberation; it’s blatant entitlement. If a woman claims to want the status of a 'strong, independent partner,' but expects a man to pay simply because he is a man, she is living a double standard.

[Miristheiss]

They are fools. Entitled. They want men to follow gender roles... gentlemen while they are promiscuous, tattoed, drunk, cursing, modern women. They have no roles or duties or responsibilities. Just to do whatever they want whenever. But men... you still court, pay, lead, provide for the town Onlyfans tramp.

[bobalife]

It’s just basic dating 101. Goodluck with dating if you don’t know how to treat a woman well with respect and treatment. And looked up what is a feminist meaning bc it has nothing to do with your complaint.

[SolitarySolace]

@bobalife Equating a man paying for your dinner with 'respect' is just transparent entitlement wrapped in emotional manipulation. Respect is a mutual human dynamic, not a financial transaction where a man has to subsidize your presence. Furthermore, telling people to look up the definition of feminism when your behavior directly contradicts it is hilarious. Feminism explicitly claims to seek total economic and social equality between the sexes. Expecting a man to shoulder 100% of the financial burden on a date solely because of his gender is a traditional role. You cannot claim feminism has nothing to do with this complaint when you are actively picking and choosing when to apply traditionalism based entirely on what benefits your wallet.

[bobalife]

A simple solution than hating on women is just don’t date women then lol.

[SolitarySolace]

@bobalife, Telling men 'just don't date' and accusing me of 'hating women' is a classic, lazy deflection because you can't actually defend your own financial entitlement. Instead of addressing the actual point about transactional relationships, you immediately resorted to an ad hominem attack to save face. Pointing out that mutual respect is a shared human dynamic—not a financial transaction where a man has to subsidize your presence—isn't hatred; it's basic logic. If your entire dating value relies on a man buying your meal, that is an entitlement issue, not a respect issue. You completely ran out of arguments, so you dropped a cheap insult because you don't have a real rebuttal! lol

[Mark_Est]

And basic dating 101 is to be a virgin for your husband. You women are quick to expect traditional treatment from men but dont offer anything traditional in return.

So no.

[bobalife]

Haha bro you’re always on here arguing about women as a hot topic for a long time now. No need to waste my time & energy to make it make sense to you & keeping it simple for you bc you’re never gonna wanna hear me or anyone who disagree with you anyways @SolitarySolace goodluck my guy🙂‍↕️

[SolitarySolace]

@bobalife Translation: You completely ran out of arguments and cannot logically defend your double standard, so you are waving the white flag. It’s not that I won't hear you; it's that you literally haven't provided a single logical point to listen to. Standard procedure: when the transactional entitlement gets dismantled by basic logic, claim the other person is 'obsessed' and announce your departure to save face. You don't want to waste energy because you know your position is completely indefensible. Thanks for proving my point by bowing out. Enjoy the exit.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

No it's not. Its women being entitled and childish.
You are naive and dumb, a guy can pay for you and use as sperm bin later.
And it has everything to do with feminism

[Shrimpenjoyer]

@Mark_Est exactly

[Purpleronnie]

I have always believed that when I ask a woman out on a date then I will be paying for it but if she were to insist on paying for what she ordered or half then have no problem with that.


That being said , if during the course of that date or subsequent dates I get to understand that she is the ‘type’ of woman that expects men to pay for dates regardless , then THAT i would have an issue with

[Theunfadeable]

Woman are socialized to be entitled from birth and that it’s okay not to reciprocate when a man does something for you. A date is how a man pays you for spending time with him 😆It’s doesn’t help when you have a bunch of weak men who are constantly told the only way to connect with a woman is to prove you’re willing to spend a reasonable amount of time money.

[Mark_Est]

Its normal biological trait. However it is traditional.


And a womans traditional role is to be a virgin for her husband.


Entitlement comes when women aren't traditional themselves but expect that from men.


Only traditional women get traditional treatment from traditional men.

[HighValue]

Because MOST women have the mental and emotional maturity of a 12 year old, even when they are in their 30s. Also, they are unfair, greedy, selfish, low quality parasites. Seriously, look up the definition of parasites and it matches most women perfectly.

[whocares1972]

Communication is key. Why did you and your date not discuss that before the dinner? My boyfriend never ever let's me pay for dinner. From our first date, he told me, I will always pay when we are out!!,

[Shrimpenjoyer]

It's about their hypocrisy

[Anonymous]

When I was single if I was asked to dinner, a coffee, ice cream, the movies etc the guy is paying because he asked. If I asked them for a date id pay. If I offered to make someone dinner or give them a ride I wouldn't then ask them to make the dinner or half the dinner or drive or drive part of the way.

[msc545]

And you've never asked a man out on a date and in your life. Or if you have in some way you didn't pay for anything. And you never will.

[SolitarySolace]

@Anonymous, The 'whoever asks pays' rule is just a convenient semantic loop designed to preserve female privilege while pretending to be fair. Everyone knows that traditional social norms overwhelmingly dictate that men must initiate, take the risk of rejection, and do the asking. By claiming 'the asker pays,' you are hiding behind a rule where you already know the odds are 99% stacked in your favor to get a free meal. If women actually initiated dates at a 50/50 rate, this logic might hold water. But they don't. Using a social dynamic that structurally forces men to do the asking as a justification for why men should always foot the bill is just entitlement wearing a mask of fairness.

[msc545]

Extremely well said and totally true. Thank you, exclamation

[Opinion Owner]

@msc545 if I didn't like a guy I wouldn't accept a date when I was single. I have asked guys out for coffee in the past and paid. I've also cooked for dates.
You guys might not like it but a guy needs to demonstrate he can be a good provider.

[SolitarySolace]

@Opinion Owner, Thank you for completely proving the exact point we are making. You explicitly admitted that 'a guy needs to demonstrate he can be a good provider.' That is a traditional patriarchal expectation. You cannot aggressively demand modern equality, celebrate 'girl boss' financial independence, and reject traditional female duties, while simultaneously demanding that a man act as a traditional financial 'provider' the second a restaurant bill arrives. You are picking and choosing when to apply traditionalism based entirely on what benefits your wallet. Furthermore, saying you wouldn't accept a date unless you liked the guy is just a baseline requirement of human decency—your presence is not a currency. Expecting a man to subsidize your meal simply to 'demonstrate' his financial utility to you completely exposes the blatant entitlement of modern dating culture.

[msc545]

So you think that liking a guy or asking a guy out for coffee or cooking for a date somehow substitutes paying for dinner? I don't think it does, and these are weak excuses at best. The truth is that you've never fully reciprocated for anything a guy paid for, and we both know that, your excuses notwithstanding.

[SolitarySolace]

@Opinion Owner This disagreement you’re having with @msc545 is a joke. As someone who completely agrees that modern feminism has fractured traditional dating and family dynamics, his position is pure cognitive dissonance. He’s here arguing over who pays for coffee, and on another thread he explicitly stated, "I absolutely deplore the left's support of feminism." Yet, he still votes Democrat to expand the size and regulatory power of the state. You cannot complain about the breakdown of the traditional provider role while actively voting for the progressive tax structures, diversity quotas, and state-backed corporate policies designed to dismantle family autonomy. He claims to oppose feminism, but he is literally buying the fuel for the engine that drives it.

[Mark_Est]

You said you expect a man to be a provider and you look for that. 100% normal and biological for women to want that. But that is traditional.

It is also traditional for you to be a virgin for your husband. Who he needs to protect with his life and provide for.

You can't be a modern woman and expect traditional treatment.

[msc545]

Maybe you need to stop assuming who I do and do not vote for said inasmuch as it. Quite frankly, as none of your business. I have my positions on feminism and paying for dating and you can stay the hell out of that argument if you don't mind.

[Opinion Owner]

@Mark_Est thats really men's choice. If they want a virgin they will marry one, if women want a man who is a good provider they will marry one regardless of traditions.

[SolitarySolace]

@Opinion Owner Watching @msc545 rage-quit the debate and hit the block button because he couldn't handle his political hypocrisy being exposed tells you everything you need to know about the stability of his logic.

Regarding your point: saying women will just marry a provider 'regardless of traditions' completely ignores structural reality. Desiring a provider is an individual choice, but the actual availability of those providers is strictly dictated by the economy. Modern political systems have spent decades dismantling the traditional male provider role by rewarding dual-income dependencies and penalizing single-income household autonomy through tax structures and corporate engineering. You cannot expect a healthy market of traditional providers when the state actively disincentivizing men from fulfilling that role. You cannot separate individual romantic expectations from the cultural factory that shapes them.

[Mark_Est]

Women control the access to sex men control the access to relationships.

So no, women can't just get a dude to marry then, while yes men choose who they want to marry.

However no traditional man is going to pick an untraditional woman for a traditional relationship.

You may be picked by modern dudes, who only offer modern values and modern relationships.

Which most of you dont want. As provide and protect, honour, respect etc are traditional values

[msc545]

@SolitarySolace fuck you, little boy. That's your second or third member post about me, and at some point or another, that's all going to catch up to you.

[msc545]

And in fact it looks like it did. Just catch up with you. Need to learn something?

[SolitarySolace]

@msc545 A platform removal changes absolutely nothing about the substance of the argument.

You argued against feminist dating entitlement, which is fine. But that raises a fair question: do you also reject the broader feminist assumptions behind modern Democratic policy and culture, or only the ones that inconvenience men in dating?

Do you support feminist framing around patriarchy, toxic masculinity, DEI gender ideology, Title IX expansion, and the idea that men as a class hold oppressive social power over women?

If yes, then your complaint about dating entitlement is inconsistent, because that entitlement flows from the same worldview. If no, then you are much closer to my critique of modern feminism than you seem willing to admit.

[msc545]

@SolitarySolace I have this weird kind of conviction that nobody who agrees with you about feminist issues can possibly vote Democratic. You know what? It's bullshit. That is your conviction and your problem. It's not necessarily the truth in an objective sense, and you keep repeating it as if it were. It's not.

[SolitarySolace]

@msc545 Calling it a “personal conviction” is a deflection from the consistency issue. I’m not saying you are not “allowed” to vote Democratic. I’m pointing out that if you reject feminist entitlement when it inconveniences men in dating, but actively vote for and support the political platform that institutionalizes that same worldview through law, corporate DEI culture, education, and Title IX policy, your position is inconsistent.

You have two coherent options here: either openly reject the broader institutional feminist framework, or defend that framework and accept the cultural consequences that flow from it.

Trying to sit on the fence does not work logically. If you refuse to choose, critics on the right will point out that your complaints are selective, while mainstream Democrats on the left can fairly ask why you support a platform whose core cultural assumptions you keep criticizing.

[msc545]

You think those positions are inconsistent. I don't give a fuck what you think. Honestly. You are not the final arbiter of consistency even though you seem to think you are. What you are instead is a second rate intellect with a fairly decent vocabulary pretending to know what you're talking about. A careful reading of your bullshit reveals it as simply bullshit.

[SolitarySolace]

@msc545, @msc545 You do not have to care what I think. That is fine. But insulting me still does not resolve the contradiction I pointed out.

If you reject feminist entitlement in dating while continuing to support the political and institutional framework that promotes the same worldview elsewhere, that is a consistency problem whether you like me personally or not.

You can dismiss me, curse at me, or call the argument “bullshit,” but you have not actually answered it.

I’ll leave it there.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

@SolitarySolace you have totally crushed their arguments bro, thanks for supporting the point I raised here 🤜🤛

[SolitarySolace]

@Shrimpenjoyer I appreciate that. Your original poll raised a fair consistency issue, and I just wanted to reinforce it.

If someone rejects feminist entitlement when it affects men in dating, but still supports the broader political and institutional framework that promotes those same feminist assumptions elsewhere, people are going to notice the contradiction.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

@SolitarySolace yes, precisely

[msc545]

You need to demonstrate that you're not a grifter.

[fero266]

I dont? I didn't even know that was a thing until i was like 23. It doesn't make logical sense for one person to pay for both, no matter who it is. Now if you're a couple, you guys can do whatever. But strangers? No. Pay for your own food.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

Tell that to girls who wan that

[Shrimpenjoyer]

*who want

[msc545]

Because women think it's traditional and they think they are entitled to it and they know if the man doesn't want to pay another man will be willing to pay for the chance to have sex with. They see men as " Providers" which is a different way of saying suckers.

[Wodens_Apprentice]

Because women secretly want us to take their rights away from them through force, so they have to corner men on everything to make sure we never have the advantages women just want better men but if that requires dismissing 95% of the male population to loneliness that's exactly what they'll do.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I haven't met such women, but the last thing I would do is act, unironically, like I'm gonna pay for her because that sends a clear machista vibe lol. They know it, I know it. Those social rules are clear to me

[MrChinaski]

C'mon, man. You can afford two cherry sodas...

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

In most circumstances, yep, your statement accurately describes my financial capacity

[Anonymous]

Hopefully most women just feel it's tradition.

I can tell you i have zero problem paying for traditions sake. But if i know going in the woman feels ENTITLED to it, i'm going to feel much differently about her and the date. Most of the women i've dated in my life have OFFERED to pay her share. I of course have always politely declined the offer. But i've always appreciated the women who offered.

[cranberrycattoystory]

Gosh, you're actually dating self-proclaimed "feminists" now. They're the worst type of women to date. They are clearly not interested in what you, the guy, wants during the date. And everyone knows very well, unless the guy is super rich, we are not interested in dating anybody either.

[MrChinaski]

The cold hard reality, friend, is that if you are dating a woman of child-bearing age then her time is more valuable than yours. Picking up the tab is the least you can contribute.

[SolitarySolace]

@MrChinaski, Respectfully, this logic completely devalues women by reducing human connection to a commercial transaction. If you are treating a woman's presence as a commodity where her "time is more valuable" due to her biological clock, you are arguing that a man is simply paying a fee to rent her company. The irony here is incredible. Modern culture claims women are independent, self-sufficient economic equals who don't need a provider. Yet, your argument completely reverts to a primeval framework where a woman trades her peak fertility years for financial compensation. You cannot claim women are independent equals in the workplace, but then argue they should be treated like a scarce commodity that needs to be paid for at dinner. A date is a mutual evaluation of compatibility between two cooperative partners, not a business transaction. Arguing that a man must pay simply to compensate for her existing implies his time has zero value, which is the exact mindset driving the modern relationship recession.

[MrChinaski]

@SolitarySolace We wouldn't be having this conversation if you had a hot woman balancing on your balls. Why don't you?

[SolitarySolace]

@MrChinaski, I’ve happily chosen to remain single and completely uninterested in sex for the last 10 years, so your crude sexual projection has zero relevance here. It’s hilarious that when confronted with a logical breakdown of economic incentives and transactional dating culture, your only coping mechanism is to immediately descend into schoolyard vulgarity. Typing out a crude fantasy doesn't magically rewrite the data or give you a valid point. Thank you for confirming to everyone reading this thread that you lack the maturity and intellect to form a single coherent counter-argument to the actual topic.

[MrChinaski]

@SolitarySolace Fine. So embrace your choice. Run with it. Stop being angry at other people about it.

[SolitarySolace]

@MrChinaski Accusing me of "being angry" is a weak defense mechanism to avoid the fact that you cannot defend your own logic. Having a detached perspective today doesn't mean a person lacks an understanding of reality. I navigated the dating scene years ago, and choosing to step away came after clearly observing the growing systemic risks, financial manipulations, and accountability double standards that men face in modern relationships.

You explicitly argued that dating is a marketplace where a woman’s time is a premium commodity and a man must pay a financial fee just to experience her company. Pointing out the macroeconomics, transactional incentives, and supply/demand mechanics of a system that you defined isn't emotional resentment—it's basic analysis. Notice how you completely abandoned your original premise and fled from the discussion the moment it got analytical. When a logical breakdown of your own worldview makes you uncomfortable, your only coping mechanism is to descend into crude vulgarity, police my tone, and try to read my mind. If you cannot back up your own transactional dating theories with actual data, just say that.

[CherryLove007]

There is too much blurriness when it comes to topics of who is suppose to do this and that. Flip a coin people. Such headaches in dating.

[Anonymous]

It's the hypocrisy of modern women. They are against traditional gender roles EXCEPT for the ones that benefit women.

[MannMitAntworten]

At the end of the day the only difference between a dog and a girlfriend/wife, is that the dog actually loves you. Otherwise, both expect you to pay and scratch their ass. Get the dog.

[Jen_oic]

@shrimpenjoyer I’m not a , but guys like to pay

[sage2021]

@Shrimpenjoyer

If I got confused, it's because when members go back and forth over and over, part of it gets covered up, and I can't see who's saying what.
If they didn't cover up the conversation it would have been easier for me to follow who is saying what to whom.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

@sage2021 it's ok

[genericname85]

lol i don't care. i'm taking equality all the way. i want a modern woman who's actually emancipated. not some adult baby ass victim complex fatherless feminist.

[Alex-Snow]

I think whoever asks the other out should make the offer to pay for it. Or oone can suggest going 50/50 to alleviate any stress about it.

[MrOracle]

That's a completely BS idea because men ask women out 99% of the time. Most men have never had a woman ask him out on a date (existing wives/girlfriends don't count).

Your idea would be a fine solution in a world where women approached men for dates, but that's not the world we live in at all.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

@MrOracle exactly.

[msc545]

@MrOracle That is the complete truth.

[Darcey]

I always offer to pay half or split the bill.

[HawkPerception]

These are genuine questions I'm asking...

Offer? Or pay it? Do you think you're being polite by offering? Because I'd hate to say it, but empty offers are the opposite of polite. They're just fake.

And do you find yourself more attracted to guys who handle the bill?

[Darcey]

@HawkPerception I'm actually serious. I ask to pay half. I'm not paying full but I'd pay for what I chose. I don't think it's fair for the guy to pay the whole bill.

[HawkPerception]

Respect to you. There are definitely fewer women like you than there are the opposite type. Very attractive mentality in my opinion. The only thing I worry about in this dynamic is if the woman loses attraction towards me because I'm not paying the bill. Regardless, it's a dodged bullet if she decides she isn't for it, but it definitely reduces the prospects. It does filter for quality though. Thanks for the response!

[Darcey]

@HawkPerception Aw. Thanks. I think it's rude when a woman buys the most expensive thing on the menu then don't even contribute. That's sad and selfish

[LiamJHayden]

If I ask her out I don't expect her to pay. Especially if I choose Coliseum or some other pricy place.

[Cidknee]

Its so they can use their money to buy other things for themselves to enjoy.

[PeachyPie93]

Because dick is free and pussy isn't..

[Shrimpenjoyer]

No dick isn't free.
You have to blow it to get it stay with you.

[MrOracle]

So you are suggesting that paying for a date assures the man some pussy?

[PeachyPie93]

@MrOracle No lol But men have to jump through hoops for us to see if we want to spread our legs for you or not.. If you don't want that.. then pay a prostitute or look for skanks who are into hookups..

[PeachyPie93]

lol men have to prove their worth.. we don't. You have to prove why a woman would want to suck your dick in the first place..

[MrOracle]

I don't jump through hoops like that because I'm not looking for casual sex - I don't need to. I have standards for the women I get into relationships with - morals, values, attitude and behavior, so I'm not the only one having to prove themselves.

If pussy is your only leverage, that doesn't bode well for you in the long run

[Shrimpenjoyer]

What makes you think you don't have to prove your worth? Do you see yourself as just a hole?

[PeachyPie93]

No the thing is I have worth already but if a guy wants to find that out he needs to show interest AND effort because honestly I could do without having a boyfriend.. If a dude wants to waste his time to try and land me go for it but if not I have better things to do then waste my time with some guy not willing to court me.

[PeachyPie93]

The stupid thing is its more often men looking for woman than woman looking for men so if you want a date you pay.. its as simple as that or don't ask lol
Losers these days with bitch tendencies are such a complete turn off and are not even worth a date.. For me if a guy isn't completely excited and interested to get to know me I rather not waste my time getting to know him since he clearly isn't the one.

[MrOracle]

What does being excited to get to know you have to do with spending a lot of money? Can't someone be excited to get to know you without spending hundreds of dollars on a date?

[PeachyPie93]

@MrOracle Lmao who is going on hundred (s) dollar dates? Most these losers are complaining about a $3 coffees ffs

[Shrimpenjoyer]

You are a loser if you don't want to pay a 3$ dollar bill

[PeachyPie93]

@shrimpenjoyer I hope you like being single when you can't even be generous with $3..
I give randoms and homeless people that on the regular lol
So who's the real loser? It shows just how stingy and pathetic you are, and not boyfriend material in the slightest.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

Lol you clearly have some sort of issue.
Again you think a man paying the bill means he cares about you, which isn't true at all.
It's common for men to pay for women, only with the purpose of using them for sex.
So you are naive if you think they actually care about you by doing that.
You gonna get used as a cum dumbster if you don't change that

[PeachyPie93]

Right... that's why only one guy has fucked me lol
Most guys in this gen are pathetic and don't have that manly provider/protector vibe I'm going for.. So none of them have even made it through the talking stage to get a date. So I either ditch them or leave them as orbiters to boost my ego lol

[Shrimpenjoyer]

Lol you clearly have problems and you are the pathetic one, not the man.

Maybe we should bring back spanking for women, turn those cheeks red haha

[PeachyPie93]

Right..
Good luck.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

Like you really deserve spanking for leaving guys on hold like that

[PeachyPie93]

LOL im sure if one of them stepped up and became a man I would get those slaps i deserve.

[MrChinaski]

@PeachyPie93 Lol. I guess that's roughly the same as my comment, in slightly different language.

[PeachyPie93]

@MrChinaski Yeah pretty much.. time is valuable

[MysteriousDarkness]

@PeachyPie93
You come across as a self entitled wannabe princess.

[PeachyPie93]

@MysteriousDarkness Oh well? Guys who don't know how to court a woman do not deserve a woman's time.. Literally that is bare minimum shit woman are asking for and if a guy can't do it he deserves to be alone because there are better men out there who will..
Considering so many people now days are dirty and hooking up with multiple people if a guy won't even try to put all his eggs in one basket and treat me special, why would I ever what to get to know him? Stick to the low hanging fruit if that is all the effort you wanna put it.. No ones stopping you lol

[PeachyPie93]

*want to get to know him?

[MysteriousDarkness]

@PeachyPie93
Continuing with your self entitled wannabe princess attitude. By your logic the woman should put all her eggs in one basket and treat the guy with respect and do more than just get ready and show up.

[PeachyPie93]

@MysteriousDarkness I do put all my eggs in one basket since I only date one douche at a time.. but if a guy asks me out why do I have to do anything but show up? HE is the one wanting to get to know me, I could do without knowing him lol

[Shrimpenjoyer]

What you even mean by "stepped up"

[PeachyPie93]

@shrimpenjoyer Acted like a man I wanted..

[Shrimpenjoyer]

And how is a man you want

[PeachyPie93]

Lol I guess someone hardworking, enjoys spending time with me, shares responsibilities, is a team player, fun to be around, does sweet things, loyal and honest, communicates well, informs me of big decisions, and has good sex drive..

[Iron_Man]

And you don’t think the man has worth? You act like women are like Cleopatra, the queen that they put on a pedestal and the men have to beg for it.

[msc545]

Men do not really have to jump through hoops, but a lot of us do. There comes a point, however, when we recognize that your pussy is not worth it.

[MysteriousDarkness]

@PeachyPie93
You come across as disliking all men. Why is that?

[PeachyPie93]

@Iron_Man It's not that I don't think men have worth in general.. Just if I don't really know a guy at that point he is worthless and has to show that he isn't..

[PeachyPie93]

@MysteriousDarkness I suppose it's cuz every man I knew has let me down..
And just seeing how they behave like monkeys around woman they deem really attractive even if that woman has a garbage and mean personality. It just makes me see them as less than..

[PeachyPie93]

@msc545 If it's not worth it move on to the next lol

[MysteriousDarkness]

@PeachyPie93
You think women shouldn't have to prove themselves while us men should go through an obstacle course then call what we did bare minimum even though you did no more than get ready and showed up. Too many women want a traditional man while doing whatever they want to do. They want us to make a certain amount of money and then comain we work and worry about investments too much. Too many women expect money before the first date and to be able to read your mind. Too many women these days make us men feel like no matter what we do it's never enough. It is quit exhausting.

[PeachyPie93]

@MysteriousDarkness What obstacle course? Paying for a coffee is bare minimum and yet most men in this gen think that's too generous for a woman. All I see when a guy doesn't offer is someone I don't want to know anymore. If said woman is a bitch, a slut, or someone you just don't like you are allowed to stop being chivalrous. But most woman don't pretend like men do and their red flags are easy to spot usually on the first date. If you don't want to pay it's your choice but woman have the choice to not except you for a date.

[MysteriousDarkness]

@PeachyPie93
Too many won't go for a coffee date or something similar because they want a dinner date in hopes of getting a free meal. Many won't go for a picnic, museum, beach etc for a first date. Women should at least pay for themselves on a first date if something needs be paid for so they can enjoy the date.

[MrChinaski]

@MysteriousDarkness @shrimpenjoyer ffs. Step up. Grow a pair. Be a man.

[PeachyPie93]

@MysteriousDarkness Okay if I consider your feelings.. If said woman will not go on a coffee date especially if it's a first date, then why are you still trying to date her? You do have the choice to reject it and look for someone else..

[MysteriousDarkness]

@PeachyPie93
I already knew I had and still have the option to reject them and I have.

[MysteriousDarkness]

@MrChinaski
I am more of a man in one atom of my being than you have been and ever will be in your entire existence.

[MrChinaski]

@MysteriousDarkness lmao

[MysteriousDarkness]

@MrChinaski
Laugh all you qant but it doesn't change what I said.

[MrChinaski]

@MysteriousDarkness No, you are completely right. Your words were so eloquently and lucidly crafted, drawing on such a wide range of evidence, analysis and deep consideration that it was completely inappropriate for me to laugh my ass off. Yet laugh my ass off I did regardless.

[Anonymous]

Because her money is her money.

Men's money is for everyone

[Shrimpenjoyer]

No it shouldn't be like that

[Opinion Owner]

And yet it is

[Staximus]

It’s hard to change the way everybody is used to thinking. Traditions and customs die hard.

[Anonymous]

Does any guy find they get lucky after they pay for dinner?

I have

So I think you need to re examine the situation🙂

[robocop666]

my friend claims she has never ever ever paid for a date ever.

[aaron-98]

Honestly I'm happy to pay 100% even after the first date

[Zionne]

they wanna feel princess treatment

[MrChinaski]

And so they should. Who the heck wants the ordinary treatment?

[Shrimpenjoyer]

@MrChinaski why should they get it and men not?

[MrChinaski]

@shrimpenjoyer How they treat me is their choice. I treat them the way I choose.

[SolitarySolace]

@MrChinaski, Respectfully, hiding behind 'personal choice' completely dodges the point about the blatant double standard. Calling it a choice doesn't change the fact that you are actively validating a culture of one-sided entitlement. This dynamic becomes a laughable fraud when the woman considers herself a 'feminist' or a 'girl boss.' You cannot claim to be a strong, independent woman who destroys traditional gender roles in the workplace, only to immediately revert right back into a fragile 'princess' who needs traditional financial pampering the second the dinner check arrives.'Princess treatment' inherently implies that a woman is entitled to elevated financial spoiling simply for existing, while the man gets relegated to the utility provider. When you eagerly volunteer to fund a one-way pedestal while expecting absolutely nothing in return, you aren't being noble—you are just enabling a toxic double standard where women claim independence but still demand to be treated like an expensive dependent.

[MrChinaski]

@SolitarySolace That's not what I said at all.

a. Relationships are a partnership. Partners contribute in different ways at different times in a roughly vaguely even way. But it's not a profit and loss statement. Partners contribute differently.

b. Who the f*** wants their love life to feel like filing their taxes? It's suppose to be a little larger than life, a little different than the daily grind. You don't need money on the table to do that, but sometimes it can be helpful.

c. I'm not getting into an argument about feminism.

[SolitarySolace]

@MrChinaski Nobody is asking for a relationship to look like a literal profit-and-loss statement or a tax form; that is a textbook strawman argument. The issue isn't tracking every single cent, it’s addressing the systemic asymmetry where a woman claims modern ideological independence but still demands traditional financial provisioning. Calling it a 'partnership' where people 'contribute differently' is meaningless if one partner's contribution is tangible financial capital and the other's is just their presence under the guise of romance. Opting out of the feminism discussion is highly convenient, but you cannot separate modern dating behavior from the cultural framework driving it. The entitlement I called out stems directly from a pick-and-choose culture that demands traditional male obligations while rejecting traditional female roles. Ignoring that reality means your version of a 'vaguely even' partnership is just masking a one-sided exploit.

[MrChinaski]

@SolitarySolace Friend. I don't care.

[exitseven]

It is part of our culture

[Shrimpenjoyer]

It doesn't need to be anymore.

[alice55]

Cause they grew up seeing their father paying

[Mark_Est]

Were their fathers paying for std farmers/modern women?

Its rather simple, traditional women get traditional treatment from traditional men.

Modern women get modern treatment from modern dudes.

[MrChinaski]

@Mark_Est I don't think 'std farmer' is appropriate language

[Mark_Est]

On the contrary. It is an appropriate language to describe innappropriate activity.

You can't just do anything you want and others have to be happy with it. And later people dont have to tiptoe around when describing the same poor life choices you took. Just cause it exposes how poor they were or makes you feep butthurt. Grow up.

[MrChinaski]

@Mark_Est It goes to class.

[Mark_Est]

Its also classy not to be an std farmer.

[alice55]

@Mark_Est not to be rude but traditional woman since 1968 they don't really exist anymore you know, my mom was not a traditional woman at all.
I can see the point you're trying to make but it does not translate to logic to our day and age also std and such had a huge boom in the 80s you know before that even if they were some going around they would not know much about it especially stuff like hiv were not know at all so relalistically yes men did pay for women even if they were modern and not traditional. They still paid for them women cause they were raised this way.

[alice55]

@Mark_Est What does it mean std farmer? I'm French I never heard this word is this a new American slangs?

[Mark_Est]

Just cause there are moe std famers fron the birth of feminism doesn't meant it is still low value behaviour.

Std farmers means women who let some random dudes who aren't their husband f them. Sort of just passing stds and making fertile breeding grounds for stds to spread. As they have. Thus std farming.

Again, it is simple. Women want a man who protects and provides. Due to biological traits to ensure the survival of the child. That is a high value man.

Men want a woman who is fertile and sexually pure. Due to biological traits to ensure that the child is healthy and is the mans child. Men need the extra layer of paternity certainty, otherwise it is a genetical suicide.

France is a cucked nation. Firstly overrun by some imported scrap, feminism and std farmer. Where it is essentially illegal for a man to DNA test "your own" child, without begging permission from the government. It is a joke. Like most western cuck fests.

That is why men only date virgins. There are no magic number or cooldown periods. Only cucks and std farmers.

[AngryCarl3]

Because men are simps.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

Yo Carl I thought you blocked me 🤣

[tonita926]

Old tradition before women were able to work.

[Shrimpenjoyer]

Yeah but why feminists nowadays still push for it

[Manuelwe]

It a sign that he os a good provider

[msc545]

It's a sign that he's a sucker if he goes for it.

[Bykurs10]

Some stupid girls problems