Should I text him directly after no reply, or just move on from dating?

[Anonymous]

I’m pretty social and have close friends but i feel a bit awkward when it comes to dating. Especially as a girl who was socialized around traditional norms I refrain from approaching men unless they come to me first. Even then sometimes it gets strange because of texting. For instance, for me it takes a lot of courage to ask someone out if i’m not sure where we stand and they have not responded to the last message after the first date. But then again i take the not responding part very religiously as in assuming their interest has already subsided. If say i was still interested in them but not sure what they thought, is it worth texting them with a direct request rather than small talk? It might not be a good call but recently i hear that it is better to be vulnerable to people and be open to whatever comes. I also checked if he removed me but seems like he hasn’t but i still don’t know

[HollyK21]

I feel like this would be more about closure for yourself than anything, which you’re more than welcome to try and get. However I think him not reaching out or replying to your message says a lot. Like Calypto said, it could be a matter of him getting busy and just hasn’t gotten around to texting you. However I’d take how long it’s been since you last spoke into consideration, along with the fact that most people are glued to their phones these days. Unless something awful happened then I don’t see why he wouldn’t have checked in if it’s been like more than 24 hours, it takes moments to send a text.

[Asker]

Yeah, not awful but there was some awkwardness. I did not want to do some stuff which i guess was a turn off for him. Not really anyone’s fault though. I guess i did not want it to be a very sexual relationship but rather suggest getting to know each other better first. Not sure if he is open to that though.

[HollyK21]

In that case I would honestly wash my hands of him. I don't know what the agreement was before meeting up or what the expectation was, but a man who can’t respect your comfort levels is just selfish. Since this was a first date I totally understand wanting to get to know him one on one rather than just hopping into the down and dirty stuff. Just gross of him.

[Asker]

Yeah honestly he looked interested enough to make a move on me first in public (not on a dating app or a nightclub) i thought there was some real interest. Even though the first date went well and we did do some stuff in the heat of the moment after, he took a different stance on the second date and i actually hinted that i will not go to his place this time and we could stick to just drinks. It just didn’t feel right and he was different than before.

[HollyK21]

I hate men like this. In all honesty he was probably put out because on the first date you did some things and he thought the second date would for sure be the stuff you didn’t get to last time. My advice? Try adjusting your perspective to be glad that he was put in a position to show his true colors and try intention before he had a chance to get to that. If he were genuinely interested in something more, it would’ve been no problem going out for drinks. In fact for all you know the drinks first could’ve led back to his place anyway if the vibe was right, but he fucked it up. I hope you choose to avoid this guy if or when he does get back to you, and I wouldn’t reach out. This is not a loss.

[HollyK21]

**true intention

[Asker]

Yeah, just curious why do you think he would get back? Tbh i don’t really understand the way these guys think but i always thought it was weird for them to come back. I have an ex that i broke up w for example but i don’t see myself doing that

[Asker]

Also, thanks for the support. I honestly hate such men who shift attitude depending on sexual things and then avoid you if you say no. Like every date has to be something sexual? Lol

[HollyK21]

I think he may try to come back when his other options have failed, as so many men like him try doing. He will test the waters to see if you’ll respond, and if you do, he will likely try gauging what your “temperature” is like. “Does she sound angry? Does she seem open to chatting?” He’d be checking for that, before trying to have some casual conversation, presenting himself as some sort of friend that’s checking in.

These men play games, they’re strategic, but overall they’re just one track minded. If he returns, he’d do it based off the fact that something has happened between you before, and maybe you’d be open to trying those things again. Not him returning based off some sort of epiphany that you’re the one. It’s never that.

I know it may seem as though I’m saying all this with too much confidence, given the fact that I don’t know him. The thing is, guys like him seem to all share similar qualities, and that’s prioritizing their wants/needs, regardless of what harm or hurt it could cause the woman on the receiving end.

It can be hard to weed these guys out if they’re coming across as nice, shy, quiet, etc. But I’ve decided that these are all efforts to gain your trust, lower your guard, and get what they want. For as much as you’re trying to get a read on them in those early stages, they are doing the exact same thing and they will test and test to see how far you will go. “Okay she’s agreed to come to my apartment after drinks, maybe we can make out” “she’s letting me feel her up, maybe she’ll be down for something more physical”. You’re being scrutinized without even realizing it. That’s why it’s so important to be firm about your boundaries, expectations, and limits. Without allowing any man to cross them. The right guys will pass the test and the wrong ones will give up when it seems like it’s taking too much work.

[Asker]

You are right about the playing nice part. It is like they will treat you nice, compliment you and chat to you for a while, continue to ask you out etc. But if you reject to do something sexual e. g. a bj (which is very intimate) they don’t like it. Tbh that grossed me out in the sense you would expect me to go there without a proper night out or even some sort of foreplay at least. That is why i said i was leaving and then he felt bad (or pretended) and said we could just sit and chill with music for a few minutes.

I mentioned going for another date in the nature and he mumbled sure but sounded a bit reluctant or maybe he was just tired that day. I’m not sure. That is why it felt awkward messaging him with a direct invite right away so i wanted to create some distance even if i was to go through with it. In some cases, you know they want to cut ties if they take you off social media. He didn’t remove but didn’t continue the conversation either. A small possibility is also that he expected me to ask him out in return but there was some awkwardness there so i wasn’t sure if it was worth it or might have felt forced? Sometimes i like to cool off

[HollyK21]

I don’t want to totally trash him and say he didn’t feel bad whatsoever, but I think it was more about not wanting to look like a total jackass as opposed to feeling sincerely empathetic about having overstepped. I’m not sure if you’ve decided whether or not to reach out, but before you do, ask yourself — is this the sort of man you’d want to build a future with? What qualities has he exhibited that you believe will add to your betterment going forward?

Don’t get me wrong, back when I was dating I definitely gave certain men benefit of the doubt. In hindsight though, none of those experiences ever amounted to much more than some form of disappointment on my end. At some point, we’ve got to turn the corner. We’ve got to stop just going with the flow, giving sketchy guys chances and more than anything, knowing when to walk away. Being able to walk away.

This guy just doesn’t sound like he’s bringing much to the table. Rationalizations for his behavior aside, he has very clearly shown his priorities when it comes to physical activity vs actually getting to know you or investing much more than that. If you’re in a place where you’d at least like to be working towards something with a guy, and know he wants the same, then go for the one who’s displaying this consistently.

[Asker]

Tbh no i haven’t decided yet still going back and forth while keeping in mind what you said. I also have experience with this sort of stuff and i guess everybody is a bit different but they may be pointed to one direction all together anyway.

For me the point of messaging was just to engage in what they call being vulnerable or i guess being comfortable asking for something in dating. Not saying he would reciprocate or anything but i guess i just wanted to get the habit of asking someone out. Other Girls have told me
They don’t care about rejection or whatsoever but i’m sure they r exaggerating. Everyone thinks they are the best

[HollyK21]

I totally agree with being vulnerable, that’s important. However, I think it’s most important when it’s towards someone you’re trying to build something with. Like being able to talk with your partner, telling them when something is bothering you, or even being open about past experiences if or when they’re impacting your relationship. Basically, it comes with working towards something, at least in my opinion.

The question here would be — what are you hoping to gain by being vulnerable with this man specifically? I mean if this is just a matter of exercises and practice, at least take that journey with a man who’s mutually interested in taking it with you. Otherwise I think if he weren’t properly receptive, it could do the opposite and make you more guarded.

My other concern would be — what am I teaching him about myself? As I said before, for as much as you’re observing and learning about him, he’s doing the same for you. In my opinion, bad behavior should never be rewarded, bypassed or smoothed over. Otherwise he will develop a mentality that he can do whatever, say whatever, and you will come back. Given what took place, I’d imagine he’s in a place where he’s either ghosting, or making you “pay” for not giving him what he wants. It has now surely been over a day since you’ve heard from him, and in my opinion that is an active decision on his end. So when you follow up you’re previously ignored message with yet another, in my opinion it’s showing that despite his disrespect, you will continue to give effort. I could only imagine the excusal of future bad behavior, when you’re already willing to give him another chance after this, so early into the connection.

Hopefully I am making sense with what I’m trying to say. It’s not necessarily to discourage you from contacting him again, and I wouldn’t judge you for doing so. I just recognize how every action matters. You say you’re asking for something in dating, but what would that be?

[Asker]

Also, just for more context he doesn’t normally seem like the type to approach people first. You know those people who have friends but don’t really like to get to know new people? He also didn’t really look like he had a lot of experience so i had sort of liked that aspect of him but you may still be right in the sense it is a disguise or he simply doesn’t care. When you try to date someone experienced they usually identify your flaws first, slightly shifting the topic but yeah.

[Asker]

I didn’t realize this message as i was writing the next one. Yeah i guess it makes sense, if he is actually subconsciously ignoring for not engaging that is really lame. I thought it is possible he wants to avoid whatever because the last interaction was awkward. Also possible maybe that was the last time he wanted to meet even if i was receptive to whatever? So i guess better to be guarded and not give in to his silence

[Asker]

Also, this is sort of funny but i notice a lot of guys will text you and then ignore you even if nothing happened. I had a friend like that whom i removed from social media. He was actively viewing my stories but would ignore my messages. Because i knew him for like 5 years i gave it a few tries and then deleted him because it was simply unacceptable

[HollyK21]

" I thought it is possible he wants to avoid whatever because the last interaction was awkward."

This could absolutely be true, but I feel like this would align with bypassing, smoothing over or negating bad behavior. I think I get the gist of what you mean, and in my opinion it's like a "let me just break the ice" mindset that you have about this. It's almost like relaying to him: "hey, you don't have to feel whatever awkwardness or animosity over that night. I'm not trippin, let's just move on like it didn't happen, because I do like talking to you and wanna see where this can go". I don't think that's something you should take upon yourself when you aren't the one who misbehaved. Of course I don't know what transpired before this last date, like if there was any sexy talk, expectations set prior (like 'I can't wait to do this or that for you', etc.). If any of that did take place, paired with how the first date went the sure, maybe he's disappointed or frustrated, maybe he thinks you're a tease. I don't know. But if sex and pleasure isn't your main priority for getting to know him then you shouldn't have to act like it is at any capacity. The fact that sex and whatever else didn't happen would not be his deal breaker if he were actually serious, in my opinion.

Also, I don't blame you for blocking that guy at all! This is such a pet peeve of mine. Like nothing is wrong with watching my stories, but to actively ignore my message while doing so is just rude AF.

[Asker]

Well i know for a fact he was interested in sex after the first date but i kind of brushed him off saying we’ll see. I did not engage in sexting or said it will happen for sure. I think i teased a bit in the sense that i said it is a special ground for me. He said he understands it is special but then didn’t really make a lot of effort on the second date. He said he had an early day tomorrow.

In the first date he said i was welcome to sleep over and walked me home when i said i will sleep in my home instead. We texted while i was also out of town and he asked when i would be back.

I think he is the combination of lazy, quiet guy. It may not be worth trying to get him to open up. I guess i’m just surprised because it still takes an effort to approach someone in public with the availability of online apps which almost always point to hook up. I guess he did not want to take responsibility or thought i had high expectations?

[HollyK21]

I think that sometimes as women we can be guilty of giving some men too much benefit of the doubt when they haven’t really earned it. In the past I also tried dating the guy who seemed shy, timid and quite nerdy. He gave off such quiet gamer guy vibes that I was the one who approached him, because I didn’t think he’d ever have the nerve otherwise despite hinting to it a few times. Ultimately he showed his true nature, and I learned that “nice” guy doesn’t always equate to “good” guy. In fact, I think the men who present as good guys can often get away with the most nonsense, because we have given then so much benefit of the doubt, we just can’t believe they’d be capable of being utter assholes.

When it comes to this guy approaching you in public, I wouldn’t put too much on the action within itself. The best way I can put it is in my opinion, this is bare minimum effort, and shouldn’t be treated as a grand gesture. I say this because when you put so much emphasis on things like this, it mentally places him on a pedestal of sorts. You raise him up as someone who’s highly interested, who overcame some major obstacle of quietness (which respectfully you don’t know he struggles with, you’ve just assumed) in order to approach you. On his end, what if it wasn’t that big of a deal? Even if he is quiet, does it necessarily mean he struggles when it comes to dealing with women? Not necessarily, and I think that if you were to stop looking at him through that lens, you’d potentially see it this way as well.

[Asker]

Also, thanks for sharing your experience as well, i really appreciate it. Most of the time my friends or other girls pretend every guy in their life has been perfect and fell for them head over heels. This is why i feel so singled out writing about these experiences because nobody understands. They are like “oh? This happened to you?” Like i’m some sort of alien or something.

by the way i forgot to mention but i unfollowed this guy when i figured he wouldn’t open the message. I was thinking he might remove me himself, i guess he doesn’t care haha

[Asker]

So he currently follows me but i’m not following him back

[HollyK21]

Hey there! Sorry for the late response, I was en route traveling out of state for the weekend lol but settled now!

It’s really no problem at all❤️. I get where you’re coming from for sure when you say you feel singled out sharing experiences like this. That’s how it felt for me at least up to like 19-27, in this age range my friend group slowly lessened as my girls met guys and started their lives as couples. None of them really faced any romantic issues once they found the right guy. They’d all face some grievances of course, but not the sort of dramas we’d be able to mutually relate to while dating.

That’s when they’d start casting much more biased POVs, and we stopped being able to relate to each other because I got sick of feeling judged whenever I’d share something. Women can be a bit too critical or out of touch sometimes, and I feel like even in our most successful relationships, it’s important to remember that we are all going through our own experiences. And just because the road you’re traveling isn’t exactly relatable in current time would not mean it never was, but people forget that bit.

Also, that sounds like the best choice! Knowing that you unfollowed him, I’d definitely say it’s less likely to hear from him. Whereas before I thought it was simply a message untouched, once you add that deletion into the mix, he may be too egotistical or even disinterested in engaging under those circumstances. He’d probably feel like that was you actively severing the bridge, which in all honesty feels like the best choice anyway. How he left things just really exposed his tru nature in my opinion, and you spared yourself the headache of trying to figure him out, understand him, give him a chance. That would’ve been a waste.

[Asker]

That is no problem at all! I am happy you are travelling.

Tbh i don’t think he noticed because he would have unfollowed me if he saw, anyway. I mean i knew i would.

Whether or not the unfollowing was likely to make a difference i don’t know i guess he might just think i’m being petty or something. I didn’t really think he would have reached out anyway since he didn’t reply to the last message.

I did it more as a form of self-protection because some if these guys also engage in soft-blocking sometimes.

[HollyK21]

With this situation, whether he reaches out or not, I think you should just cut your losses. You made the move to self-protect, and I don’t think that’s something you should question or double back on given the nature of this situation. You can do better hun!

[Asker]

Yeah i know what you mean. by the way i had some exes who stalked me online after ghosting me. As you said one of them pretended to hit me up casually asking me how i’m doing and when i asked what they want from me they were like “just saying hi”. Like pretending to care about me but probably just wanted some free ego boost. I blocked him back though i did wonder what was his deal. It is like if you talk it is on their terms, if they don’t want to they move on but then disturb you again because they think they have the power.

[HollyK21]

This is literally such an annoying thing when it comes to guys. Since I’ve been in this relationship for a few years now, I hear less from them anymore, because I think they are finally starting to understand this relationship is very serious. But even still for two guys, they religiously watch all my Snapchats, still try commenting here and there but they keep it casual enough to not raise red flags.

I think the men who hang on even a little bit are just trying to stay updated on where you stand. This includes testing the waters to see if you’ll even exchange a few words with them or ice them out completely, along with watching your stories and all that. I’m not sure it’s so much about power, but gauging where you’re at in case they do try circling back.

As I’m writing this, it’s actually giving me a bit of self reflection that I haven’t really considered, and I’m going to block these people now lol. These guys will always try to find an opening as long as they’re single, and it’s quite an eyeroll.

[Asker]

Actually one of them gets a lot of attention from girls or exaggerates it i don’t know. That guy i never even technically dated, he was just a friend who would flirt with me here and there. Just a few months ago when we talked he was trash talking his ex whom he was with for two years and told me this is why he had ceased talking to me. He said she was dumb and this wasn’t thr first time he bitched about his exes. He eould break up with them and they would cry, continue texting him. I was like fine i don’t care that you stopped talking to me and I understand you had a girlfriend. but then he did it again this time not sure about the reason either. When i removed him i was thinking do i really want sb to only speak me on his terms? With this guy im pretty sure he will notice in a few months since he would always view my stories first.

[HollyK21]

Having this conversation with you feels a lot like talking to my younger self when I was your age. I can definitely relate to a lot of what you’re experiencing, and I think that’s why I’m able to give specifically you the feedback that I have. If I could give any sort of “hindsight” advice, it’s to stop giving chances to me who haven’t earned it and those who really don’t deserve it.

Giving Benefit of the doubt has never worked in my favor, and if it did then I would’ve ended up with one of those men rather than only disappointed by them. When I met my fiancé, at that point I just felt like such a guarded, frustrated version of myself. I was 30 and not had one serious, titled relationship. And by serious I mean I did have two “boyfriends” but I hate to even call them that because they did no better than the guys I tried dating. Like nothing but a title made those connections more meaningful, and I think the label mainly happened because that’s what I advocated for. In the end, what I really should’ve done was just ignore all those guys the moment they started “switching up”. Once the consistency with efforts slowed or stopped, once the first (even a second or third) disappoint happened, rather than rationalize it in my mind because I really liked them, I should’ve taken those signs and ran with them.

Because like I said, those benefits of the doubt never amounted to anything, and as a single woman yourself, you can probably say the same. We need to advocate for ourselves as much as men do, and stand as firmly in our boundaries as them.

[HollyK21]

Notice how with this guy in your situation, maybe he’s not being an asshole by vocalizing it, but his boundary was having sex and pleasuring eachother on that night. It wasn’t assuring you had a proper date as he got to know you better to potentially be in a relationship one day. It was to hookup, and when that wasn’t on the table, you crossed his boundaries and it was unacceptable in his eyes. You need to have the same sense of self preservation as he does, rather than wanting to fix things in order to align with what he needs.

[HollyK21]

Sorry I hadn’t noticed you sent a response once I sent my last one! Lol. That guy sounds like a scumbag, you did the right thing by deleting him in that instance.

[Asker]

Yeah i know what you mean, it is possible he would have continued calling me if “sex” was still on the table, or maybe not and he really just wanted to hook up with no strings attached.

Also, i guess I understand why he didn’t reply to the how ru message. It is like oh we are not hooking up why should i bother be nice to her anymore. Also, i actually told him that we don’t even need to go to his place hinting that i was reluctant to go there anyway. He looked a tad desperate too so i assume he doesn’t really go out with women that much, reminded me of my first ex who was very desperate for sex as well. I did not feel comfortable doing whatever he wants

[Asker]

I hope he feels embarrassed for treating me that way in the future

[Asker]

Also he is sort of dumb, i unfollowed him but he is still following me

[HollyK21]

The unfortunate thing is, he may never feel embarrassed or even care, and that’s because there was no real time or opportunity for him to fundamentally care about you. It’s a sucky truth, but it’s the harsh reality, a lot of these younger men don’t give damn about the women they impact, at least not how they should or could. He may care on a surface level, like assuring you make it home safely at the very least. But that’s it.

Women are more emotional thinkers by nature, we care fundamentally about things like feelings, closure, etc. Some of us get better about that with age, but it’s always gonna be there. Meanwhile some guys can be much more cutthroat, they won’t see the impact how we see it unless they genuinely like or love us.

You can quickly learn what type of guy you’re dealing with based off those first interactions alone. For example, a guy who’s trying to sext and/or flirt pretty hard before even a first date. The immediate goal for a good man is not to gauge how much he will be allowed to explore your body, it should be setting a date and getting to know you while on it. This isn’t to say they shouldn’t want you — obviously you want attraction. But the men who dive into the physical aspects at any capacity show what their true nature is. Like with this guy in question, what if he’s approached several women in the past and that’s why it’s so easy? You observed him to be quiet, but does quietness equate to well intended or shy? Not necessarily.

[Asker]

To be honest i think he is very fake. He had a look at my instagram after telling me he wants to go on a date and asked me related questions about my hobbies etc. before meeting in real time. I guess a red flag was that he was very touchy-feely during the date though. I guess it is a good things to break the touch barrier but maybe he just wanted me to ask him to go home together.

Also, he pretended to be interested in Spanish culture (where im from) and texted me related things. Everything felt different after the second date though, we chatted a little bit and he asked me to do pretty intimate things for him. Maybe he thought i was a different kind of woman so he backed out when i didn’t want to do it. You know those girls who give bjs to random men? I could never do that anyway. I also said that he didn’t work hard enough for that sort of stuff so i guess we were misaligned.

[HollyK21]

The touchy feely stuff you definitely have to watch out for. In some ways, I hold the ideology that it doesn’t matter when you hook up, it can be 3 months in, 3 weeks, even 3 days, if the guy doesn’t intend on sticking around anyway then he was never going to no matter when you get to any of that. However, I also prioritize self preservation, because for a lot of women whether we realize it or not, each time we do something with a guy, no matter how small, it’s mentally chipping away at us. The lines between normal (a kiss, handholding, arm around shoulders, etc) and excessive touches (making out, rubbing, feeling) can morally become blurred. It’s like on one hand you don’t wanna disappoint, but on the other you don’t wanna just give it all away. The right guy is gonna respect that and stick around either way it goes.

The guy in question sounds like he treats women as conquests. It sounds almost exhausting and too much work, like why (for example) is he spending any sort of time sending me good morning/goodnight texts, sending things he thinks I’d like, uplifting me, connecting with me, etc etc etc, only for him to ice me out the moment he doesn’t get what he wants? It feels almost like something you’d see in a move or on a show when guys go to those lengths, kinda right?

It’s because they’ve got their eyes on the prize.
It’s not especially hard to pluck out the few seconds of the day to send a text, or take notice in someone’s culture on a surface level (like if I’m Asian he’s suggesting restaurants, outings, etc which align with that) when he sees it’s deepening your interest and lowering your guard. Like I said, some are more emotional, so we put more emphasis on noticing and doing such things. While for a certain man it’s all about the end goal, and the efforts will likely be fleeting. This guy wasn’t willing to invest more days, weeks, months into a need that can be easily obtained by some other woman. It can really be that plainly cut.

[Asker]

Yeah most definitely. I guess it is better to leave it this way rather than try to “fix” or reprimand him. All i could do is feel sorry for the next person who he will ask out to get a bj out of it lol

[Asker]

I feel like if i went through with it though i would have felt very used. You know when you get a very bad gut feeling? Like he is trying to degrade you in some way

[Asker]

Also, just wanted to check in. I travelled across the country for a little trip and it kind of helped me move on. I saw that he recently opened the message and didn’t respond but i do not feel the urge to message anymore. Just seems like a dude who wants to get with girls with minimal effort or through apps where girls can initiate it first anyways. Maybe it has worked for him in the past so he thinks girls will throw themselves at him or he us actually a weirdo. Anyhow, i guess it is fine. So should i remove him from my socials or block him just to have the upper hand? Or leave it? What would you do?

[HollyK21]

Hey love! It’s good to hear from you, and I’m so glad that getting away kinda helped take your mind off him, it was the best thing for me as well.

If I were you, I’d either delete him, or if it isn’t too emotionally distressing, block him. When I say distress, I don’t mean it would be overly hard or something, but if you’re like I was then you may off-handedly be trying to leave the door cracked, which is nothing to be ashamed of but instead, just to acknowledge it and learn about yourself. How you feel about this is a layer.

If you wanna keep him unblocked but deleted, that could be curiosity on your end, wanting to see if he will get around to reaching out and what he would say. Even if you didn’t open the message but could just see it from the outside. You may feel like him reaching out first would help regain some power if you feel used, taken advantage of, even if you feel like you chased somehow rather than wash your hands as he did. You also may have a hard time letting completely go because it feels like a loss. You did things for him, invested time, gave benefit of the doubt, and ultimately you want it to pay off. It’s disappointing when it doesn’t, I get that for sure. But when you put those thoughts that come with overthinking to the side, and look at the bare facts, ask yourself what about him you are even subconsciously holding onto?

Don’t be embarrassed or ashamed to speak on or admit whatever it was that you liked — own it, accept it, because this is how you learn about YOU.

Deleting him is a good step, blocking is hugely finalizing and sends a firm message: ‘don’t ever try to contact me again, I’m literally blocked your most immediate ability to do so’. I think you should will yourself to send that “message”, then unpack any fallout in regards to how you feel about doing that.

[Asker]

Hello 💖

Yeah, unfollowing was the first step for me so i do not see their pics or stories. I guess there is no shame but there is still an irrational part of me that don’t want to close the doors completely and not sure why. Because there was never an actual break up talk i guess i was wondering whether he would come back later for some kind of closure. But i guess since he is fine with reading and ignoring then blocking would serve them well. Whether he notices or he forgot about me completely we will never know. But i guess it is a nice gesture for myself provided he didn’t delete me off social media firsthand.

[Asker]

Also, i didn’t block a lot of other guys but i did remove a friend who was constantly hot and cold. I did not block them because i knew that would make him happy, given that he told me he liked it when his ex blocked him. In that instance, just removing would suffice, like i do not hate you but i do not want you in my life either. I do not know why i attract these guys and why they were interested in me in at the first place including friends who just flirt

[HollyK21]

Not to be weird or anything but I’m sending you all the virtual hugs, because I get it and men can just be so fcking disappointing. I feel like it was just yesterday I was out to brunch venting to my girlfriends about how absolutely exhausted I was with even trying. At the end of my dating efforts I was just mentally frustrated and cutthroat AF when it came to men. Like I literally couldn’t take anymore to where I felt forced to advocate for myself and be in my full form because guess what? Most men are gonna act in their best interest at all times.

I never understood the importance of a man needing to love me more than I love him the way I do now, because when we love or care about them more in most cases we get shit on. No offense at all but I mean look at your situation, look what this man has done and how despite all that, you’d still give him some sort of chance. It’s hard to admit but it’s true, it sucks and it needs to change. Because it isn’t fair to give your best, to give benefit of the doubt and all that yet as soon as he is put out, he’s out the freakin door. If I were you, this would be my last chance being disappointed if I can help it. You can’t change what’s become of this situation but you know what you can do? Learn from it, take those lessons and apply them to your next experience, because at some point there will be another man. When he comes along, remember YOU come first, because you truly love yourself and you’re sick of the bullshit. Ask the right questions and do NOT be afraid of him leaving. I don’t care if he’s the hottest thing walking and/or the attraction is immaculate — ask what his intentions are for talking to you and make sure he abides by that. If the moment comes that he switches up with his consistency and efforts — automatic goodbye. Don’t get caught up with the benefits of doubts, no, judge what you’ve literally got before you, not the hopes and what ifs in your mind. A man will never hesitate to be that strict.

[Asker]

🤗🤗🤗

Yeah we should move on from assholes. And avoid the next one too! Thanks for your detailed answers too.

by the way you sound very articulate in your answers, like you work in writing or something.

kind of unrelated but girlfriends can be annoying too. You know how you try to make effort, see them and then they disappoint you? For example we decide we are going to do something together and have somebody else waiting to pick us up. She randomly barges into a hotel bathroom stays there for 20 minutes without any explanation. Then the person waiting for us is left confused because we gave them an ETA already and we are delayed because of my friend. Naturally, they said they will meet us later given they will be charged uber fees if they wait any longer. Then my friend doesn’t even acknowledge it and says they made their “own plans” and there was no need to book the uber so fast. She just expected them to wait for her forever, however long it takes. I said “no they wanted to make plans with US, WE just made an unexpected stop” By that i was subtly pointing out to the bathroom break. Also, we had a bathroom in the house so she could have waited.

Then she acted like that plan never existed and wanted to chill at my place instead. I asked if we should do something outside or walk her to the train and then she seemed offended because i looked like i wanted her to leave. I personally didn’t like that she just cancelled on our plans and just wanted to use my place to rest before her train. When we left the house she was agitated and said she wanted to go to the train alone. People can prefer to go alone but in my opinion she was just being passive-agressive because i didn’t want to stay home until her train time being idle. Like oh we will cancels plans? Ok we will stay at your house? (Sounds manipulative)

[HollyK21]

My god yes, I do NOT miss some of my outings with “friends” lol. The grind in question most definitely sounds inconsiderate of time. I once had someone who is hang out with, she had a similar mindset and ultimately we cut ties. Here’s my theory — I match energy. Meaning, I’m only going to put in what I know would be acceptable for me, and I won’t accept any less because I know I would do it. I’m pretty prompt with time, especially for ride share, we are running up a cost. If liquor was involved then it sounds like she can’t control hers. I want the most drama free outings these days. When I go out without my fiancé, it’s with a girl or two who I know will make it a smooth outing. You deserve the same.

[Asker]

Oh she wasn’t drunk or anything. I think she just prioritizes her own comfort over anyone else. My other friend has the theory that she has some sort of anxiety that is why she rushed to the bathroom so we would be late and they would lose interest. From my POV, she just doesn’t care. When i confronted her about it she acted like the whole thing did not happen and we should just di our own thing because they probably “have plans anyway”. Also, she wanted to use my apartment as some sort of resting lounge before her train which didn’t sit well with me as we had made alternate plans and it was MY apartment. When i asked what she wants to do, she tried to brush it off saying she needs water, she is tired etc. Then i persisted and said we should go out and find something to do before her train. She looked defeated like either she was annoyed i didn’t agree to her request to stay home or felt kicked out. Because she followed up saying she can also walk to her train alone. I feel that if i just let her stay there i would be rewarding her controlling behaviour. I haven’t talked to her since and don’t intend to as she was not only inconsiderate of my time but my friend as welll. Also, shame on her for calling my other friend “shy” when she is obviously scared to meet new people herself and is deflecting

[HollyK21]

Oh man, I was just re-reading my comment and please excuse the spelling errors, I should never multi task lol. Okay so I’m not sure what you’ll make of this interpretation, I could be completely wrong and that’s alright if so, this is just some food for thought. Your friend may not have any kind of anxiety, it doesn’t sound like that was ever really confirmed. However if she does, I can’t help but to understand where she’s coming from because my horrible social anxiety has been something I’ve struggled with since middle school. I have really fought (at least in my later years) not to let it control aspects of my life, but sometimes I can’t help it. If I’m to catch a flight for example, if I don’t mentally prepare for it beforehand then I end up having several stops to the bathroom with stomach sickness while waiting for the flight, I can’t just chill. This happens more times than I can count, whether I’m headed out to dinner with friends and they’re picking me up (I don’t drive), or out with my fiancé. I recognize now that not everyone can handle this part of me or wants to deal with it. I keep it to myself because it’s embarrassing and I don’t think every friend will understand it. I have sooner pushed friends away than get into my anxiety issues because the friends I cut ties with had a mentality that I should “just get over it”. It’s like they can’t grasp why I can’t always just get up and go, and I totally get their POV because it’s made us late to something or we’d miss it entirely. My responses became exactly like your friends, and it sounds as if she were trying to protect herself from your anger.

Like I said, I could be wrong, but I feel as though this POV is at least fair to consider if your other friends hunch about anxiety is correct. I know anyone can have bouts of anxiety, but until it’s affecting them how it does for me, I feel like they just can’t understand how impactful and debilitating this can be.

[HollyK21]

It’s like having someone in your life who struggles with bad depression, for someone who doesn’t face that, they wouldn’t get why this person isn’t overcoming it. The may feel like the person isn’t doing enough to combat their condition and they may get tired of dealing with the person because it’s draining. Which I get, it’s hard trying to navigate someone else’s bad day or thoughts while trying to protect yours.

I’d say similar about the anxiety, just from a personal view of “getting it”. Some people I no longer speak with got sick of being late or my relationship was with the bathroom. I wound up with my 1 best friend, my fiancé and my family. They are usually the only ones who can tolerate that. My friend used to get upset, now she quietly lets me sort through my panic, my thoughts, and I feel wildly guilty each time because it isn’t fair yet she loves me enough to deal. I appreciate these people more than they know, and I have gotten much better over the years.

As for your friend crashing at your house, in all honesty maybe it was just some miscommunication. It sounds like she’s very comfortable around you and with you, but she oversteps and I think it could simply be a matter of correcting that behavior, asking her not to do that, and just being clear with boundaries. She probably had it in her mind that you guys could just chill at your house before the train, but may have been fine had she verbally relayed that. Instead it sounds like you were under the impression you’d do something before the train, and did not want her just lounging at your place.

Don’t get me wrong, some friends do this. I had one girl who would always come over under one impression but ultimately just wanted to laze around my house, and I wasn’t interested in hosting or entertaining company that day. I’ve really got to be in a mood for that. So I told her where I was coming from, she claimed to understand yet that changed our whole dynamic and we spoke less and less until nothing.

[HollyK21]

**that may have been fine**

[Asker]

Yeah i know what you mean. She doesn’t want to say no to requests to accomodate me however then she just backs out last minute, and doesn’t even bother explain why. Sometimes if I do not know if it is anxiety or something else. It is possible she got nervous prior to meeting the other friend and rushed to the bathroom to evade. But then i do not appreciate that she tried to shift the blame to them saying they were too early or had their own plans which was 100% wrong.

[Asker]

I fully comprehend that she wanted to spend wholesome time together at my condo (which has no couch, tv or rarely anything to sit on). This is because im moving soon so there are only balcony chairs we would sit on. She came over to drop off her bag so we could go out without a hassle but then also wanted to spend time at the balcony. Ok fine there is a nice view and we had some food and had fun too. It was good for that day where she communicated she wanted to chill there before. however she kind of just cancelled on our plans later the next day as well and wanted to come back to my empty condo again literally to do nothing 😂 as you did, i kind of encouraged us to leave or do something outside before her train. I mean she wanted to sit on the floor? Instead of our plans. By then she looked flustered like she wanted to bargain staying there until her train. As we walked outside of my condo she said that i should meet my other friend and she could go to the train herself. I was like it is not a big deal she doesn’t have a preset time and offered to walk at least half way but she didn’t budge. I was like fine and we said bye. We didn’t talk since and i only saw that she liked my post.

[Asker]

She also backed out on our pedicure idea but offered to watch if i want to get one. Lol what? She made it sound like technically she wasn’t ruining our plans. Also, i didn’t catch any sprkling error haha

[Asker]

She also backed out on our pedicure idea but offered to watch if i want to get one. Lol what? She made it sound like technically she wasn’t ruining our plans. Also, i didn’t catch any spelling error haha

[HollyK21]

Okay so this may sound funny, but I swear I have done the exact same thing lol not excusing her at all! It was just one thin very specifically about the pedicure, except in my case it was my mom and aunt. I wanted to get my toes done but I feel like I overthought and got this idea about being confined to the chair. It gave me anxiety like I’d get sick. I know, that is so extra and makes zero sense — I don’t think I would do that in current time. Still, the sensation does come up from time to time and I have to be mindful in the moment about controlling that. It’s hugely frustrating and annoying how much it can impact my life. This is not to say she’s going through the same thing — like you said it may not be anxiety at all and she’s just going through some things in her head. I just think she should communicate that better. I don't know if conversations like that are touchy or uncomfortable for you, and I guess that really depends on how open you guys can be with each other. But if you don’t start talking again, I’d talk to her about all this if you haven’t already. I wouldn’t flat out tell her she’s got some anxiety disorder, we can’t diagnose that on our own lol. Instead, just explain where you’re coming from, and ask her if there’s any way she can just let you know when she’s feeling this or that way.

At the same time, this can be a frustrating friendship for sure. I don’t blame you for being irritated with how she operates, and it’s just not for everyone even if you love her as a friend. I think that unless you were able to communicate better and clearer, then it’s better not to be friends with her anymore. That is a hard but a very mature and necessary decision. Better than risking a bad fallout.

[Asker]

The pedicure thing was funny for sure… we got them last time together so not sure as to why she was against it this time. Maybe she didn’t want to pay? The situation w your aunt seems different though, your family was probably more aware of why you didn’t want to go through with it

I don’t think we would have a fallout like that right away but i don’t know if i feel comfortable hosting her as a guest in my family if she will prioritise herself like that all the time. Like what if we are going to dinner, they paid for her and she wants to stay in? My parents would then discourage me from seeing her.

I know the feeling of having a guest in your home and feeling like they don’t care or respect your family. This was a different case but my sister had a guest come over and not say thank you for anything including food. She didn’t feel the need to pay us back anything and made us feel like we were obligated to make her happy. My sister didn’t cut her off but expressed our impression of her after she left.

Also, i actually stayed at my friend’s place too and she was quiet strict about their family space not allowing me to even go downstairs to collect items from my luggage or get breakfast. She would bring everything upstairs and basically trapped me in my bedroom 😂

In that instance, i actually told her that she was making me feel “disruptive” and she counter-argued claiming she set up the bedroom and bathroom for me. I mean i was thankful for that and it was comfortable for sure but what else was she supposed to do anyway? Let me sleep on the floor?

It turns out she may have been a bit awkward about the whole thing because she apparently never had someone sleep over at her family house so it is possible it was more from her family rather than her own intuition and she didn’t know what to do. Then we agreed to leave together so it was fine.

[Asker]

Also, another funny thing. We would also hang out in her bedroom since it had tv and the minute i said it got stuffy she found her own unique solution to have coffee in my bedroom or bathroom instead… so i was basically trapped but she said it is because she didn’t want me to feel sweaty. Or she could have opened the windows?

[HollyK21]

How long have you guys been friends? Has she always been this way? What’re the redeeming qualities to this friendship? Not trying to bombard you with questions lol, I just feel like sometimes, there’s a lot of layers and to better understand not only people but ourselves, we have to peel them back.

Originally when you were talking about this friend, as someone who’s historically had such shitty anxiety that interfered so much with my day to day, I try looking at all that she’s done through the lens of someone who’s been there. And while our situations of course aren’t exact, in a way I felt like I got where she was coming from, not entirely but on a surface level. At the same time though, without confirmation that she does struggle with anxiety, I couldn’t rightfully speak on what her mindset could or couldn’t be in regard to that. So when I take some sort of crippling, relatable anxiety off the table, what I think I see are two friends whose paths are diverging.

For me personally, accepting my mental health issue really assisted in weeding out friends, because they got frustrated with me and while I couldn’t blame them, I also recognized how it created an incompatibility between us. But without that element, I think we could’ve grown apart anyway because their mindsets just became too different from mine.

When you share these situations that have happened, it’s like I can genuinely see both sides. I can fully agree with your qualms, while also considering that if not anxiety, maybe she’s got some other things going on that she isn’t properly relaying. However, it isn’t your job to understand her. Even for as much as you’d like to get whatever “it” is, as an adult you’ve got other things to deal with that don’t include navigating someone else’s mental state. To which I’d say this — she may be trying to extend the olive branch by liking your comment, and you guys may patch things up. You just really have to think about if it’d be the best choice.

[Asker]

No the questions are good! I love getting advice from you 🤗 i know her from university so it has been some number of years but we got closer after graduating. She was the one who initiated it since we would have been out of touch when i was living in a different country. I think we were very close up until a few days ago since i started calling her my bestie and she reciprocated. I never had a best friend since i was like 11.

you are right in asserting that i’m not accountable for her mental state if it is impacting me in a negative way. I guess she thinks everyone will accept her as she is. But in my opinion then that should apply to me as well, that if im travelling to see her i do not really feel like hosting at an empty condo and we can entertain ourselves outside.

I also do try getting to know her in the sense i ask her questions about her family, her relationships etc. she will be closed off sometimes for whatever reason which doesn’t make sense as i shared some private work-related stress or family stuff with her but each to their own.

Also, just mentioning this because it is funny. Sometimes she will take something i say and relay it in a way i don’t see coming. For example, i will tell her i had a boss who was of a certain origin and then she will tell my other friend “oh you know Jane doesn’t like people of that region and that is why she is making that inside joke”. Then my other friend will ask why she said that because it doesn’t make any sense. Later i corrected her saying that i genuinely had a bad time with that boss and her origin has nothing to do with it. Then she will play dumb and say that is not what she meant.

[Asker]

Also, she was obsessed over getting game tickets which i wasn’t really interested in anyway. It worked out for me in the end since she came late and then we didn’t go. She insisted the tickets are unlimited , i tried to say no they will get sold out but she wanted to believe her own truth 😂😂😂 i knew we weren’t going

[HollyK21]

Despite getting closer over the past few days, I’ll be honest it sounds like there’s been mounting friction, and always a sort of imbalance with boundaries. Like do you feel as though for the most part, when things happen with her, you let her know how it made you feel? With the comments about you not liking people from a certain region for example, once you guys were alone, did you tell her that this was inappropriate or that those type of comments aren’t cool?

I mainly ask because in all honesty, I think that unless you either cut ties altogether, or relay how you feel when something is happening, I can really see you two falling out in the future. I feel like you’ve had a number of feelings that maybe you’ve kept to yourself to avoid confrontation, to not make her feel bad, and things along those lines which is normal, we all hesitate or don’t feel comfortable having certain conversations. But when you don’t say anything, your feelings about this or that will start to mount. So then in situations where you probably wouldn’t have cared much, it’s just gets added to a mental file cabinet of previous grievances and you’ll only get more frustrated.

Like I don't know if you realize this, or even really intend it, but you sound really fed up with this woman, yet continue to interact, which isn’t good for either of you. I think that if you were to ultimately wash your hands, you’d prefer it be amicably rather than you crashing out or vice versa. She doesn’t seem to have many friends, and these traits of hers, or even if it’s mental health going unchecked, can contribute to why that is.

[Asker]

I see where you are headed and honestly you might be right. We live in different cities so we don’t have the intimate experience more than once every few months. I can’t really imagine how it would be to see her every week. This is something i thought about as well.

Also, the comment about her delusion, i recall either me or my friend corrected her that i only mentioned the origin of that person to identify who i was referring to. She pretended to go with the flow like yeah ofc that is what jane said. If i said her comments were inappropriate im pretty sure she would push back in denial because we cannot recall the exact words she used. I think a third party has to get involved to make her believe she is in the wrong.

Once i told her a specific painful experience i had at work and then she brought it up a few times and included it in some cringe joke. I said i was surprised how comfortable she was bringing up that topic and asked if she was sharing this information with other people. She said that it was my business and she wouldn’t do that. She didn’t bring it up again but then kind of danced around the topic via text one more and this time i told her to “not say that because im trying to move on”. She said she won’t bring it up again but no sorry or anything.

[Asker]

Also, i personally feel that she expects me to talk to her first after my visit because she is pretending to be hurt. It is funny because we would post pictures with each other without tags but we haven’t interacted except likes. You are right in saying she doesn’t have many friends or she does if she is loosely tied to people around her neighbourhood.

This does not really concern me but i also do not understand what goals she has in life. Like she would get a summer job but not apply to anything else in the long-term. She says she doesn’t want to work yet claims she is always busy.

[HollyK21]

I don’t talk to her anymore, but I had a friend who has been like this since Covid. We both lost our jobs when it hit and I guess she got too comfortable being at home. Honestly, I think a lot of us did, but life has to go on. For your friend, I don’t know, it could be a matter of social anxiety and having a hard time adapting to being like, consistently around people in a work setting vs something that is more fun and not so long, like dinner, bars, etc, this will all be faster and more laid back than a full time shift. Plus if her parents can afford her staying home, she’ll likely not be in any rush to work.

Like you said, it’s not really something to concern you, but it can be a deciding factor as to whether or not you remain friends with her. Over the years I’ve started to recognize that birds of a feather flock together in some aspect, even if you’re different than your friends in many ways. I feel more driven when I have friends who are mutually working towards their goals. I feel more inspired when I go to dinner with a friend who when we catch up, she’s filling me in on her accomplishments, upcoming plans, and just living a full life. It can feel hindering to unaligned to me when my friend is just stagnant in life, and while no it’s not always a dealbreaker, I do distance myself from friends like that.

In any case, I’m not the greatest when it comes to understanding our friends. With guys, I feel like I’ve had such interesting encounters and it’s made for such helpful feedback. But with friends, in all honesty I feel like I’m still figuring that out. Now I mainly work, or hangout with my fiancé. I have maybe 3-5 low maintenance women in my circle who I maybe see or talk to once-twice a month, and it works for us all. I guess I just started weeding out my friend group, which has done the most damage control lol.

[Asker]

Yeah, actually even though she has no real motivation to work, i wouldn’t say she is spoiled either because she takes care of the house and helps clean and cook. Besides that though she seems to prioritise herself and her time more than anyone else maybe besides her family. Like when she delayed us, i think she was under the impression that my friend should have waited around for her and not make any fuss about her sluggishness. Also, coming back to the house situation, she didn’t even let me move around her house or interact with her dog because he would “bark”. Meanwhile, she would sort of invite herself to my place and try to extend her visit by cancelling on our plans because she feels tired, needs water etc.

[DishLady]

Just move on. As a person who made the mistake of letting things drag along for over a year with a guy who (turns out) wasn't serious, I would have been smart to just let it go and look for someone else. At least you're open to meeting a good person, but you have to let go of the bad person.

[Asker]

I see what you mean. So how is it related to my situation? Just curious did he exhibit similar sorts of behaviour?

[DishLady]

Yeah. I had my “I love this one” blinders on. Trust me. Don’t let anything cloud your judgement of what a guy is doing, even your own feelings for him. It’s not worth it.

[Asker]

Yeah, i recently had a trip and it helped me distance myself from the situation. He is just a weirdo and i do not think i had genuine feelings for him anyway. I was just surprised by how quickly he changed. I hope other girls have the same attitude with him and do not give into his game.

[Calyptomaniac]

It's possible they got busy and forget to respond to you, or there are plenty of good reasons. I'd try one more time. If you don't get an answer a second time, then you know...

[Asker]

Did you ever have a similar experIence? I haven’t really dated until my late 20s so….

[Calyptomaniac]

I was married for a long time so I didn't either. I've only been with one guy after that and he was very enthusiastic about texting all the time, so no. But if he was never going to answer your first text, then the worst thing he can do is not answer this one and then you know for sure...

[Asker]

Lol lucky you!

[Danny_dan92]

This isn’t even gender based, if a person is not responding to you. They aren’t interested

[Anonymous]

once you meet a guy who likes you for who you are, he will be doing all the work pusuing you

[Godihateyou]

Move on from no reply. That's the ultimate disrespect.

[WhitneySnow]

Text him. It’s a good idea.

[Asker]

Have you done it? Haha

[WhitneySnow]

Never had to. But it can’t hurt. The worst he can say is that he’s not interested. Better to know how he feels than spend all that time wondering.

[Asker]

Lol seems like nobody “had to” except me, i must be unique or something 😜

[WhitneySnow]

Nah. A lot of girls have problems with guys who won’t commit.

[Asker]

So you think it is a good idea to text just for closure?

[WhitneySnow]

Yes. And also, you never know. You might get an answer you want to hear. Just do it. Otherwise you’ll always wonder.

[Asker]

Actually i stopped wondering. I think he is not worth it. Otherwise he would have checked in or something. He probably does this to several people either conventionally or his matches on tinder assuming he is texting multiple people. Kind of a dick though pretending to have any interest in my life. Hopefully he will get someone who he deserves :))

[Anonymous]

It depends what you last sent him.

[Asker]

It was just a how are you message. Guessing he is turned off by something oh well his problem

[beenherebefore]

Move on.

[_Jenny_]

Move on girl