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I think I got the unpopuler option here but il say yes
But it should be something done after they understand why, not just a "be a parrot and say what I say"
A flag is a symbol, its not a person or an idea, its a symbol that in this case I assume talking about the US and that is what I be refering to
The idea of pledge allegiance is to say that you owe it, that its part of who you are, and there for you should look for its best intreat
And the the flag as said is a symbol, one of the contry that is one of the allince of all the states that show on the flag that you are going to be part of
In the end the allegiance is not to the flag, as its just a symbol and can't accept allegiances, its to your contry, to your pepole you do it
In the US its the flag as its the strong symbol to show the United States of Amarica and there agreement to be one contry
I may be miss understanding or not knowing but that is my understanding
Over all thinking about it I dont think we really got something of that form where I live, that is intresting I never was really thinking about it
Even that I say that most to all of the pepole here have a strong connection to the contry, as even once that left, angry and dispointed seem to always check about it, check the news and know, as they still feel part of it
Symbolism pushers are partly to blame for why people follow herd mentality.
Nationalism is dangerous, it puts a "my area vs your area" mentality in people's minds, it causes stereotyping, blindly following leaders, and pointless death via pointless wars.
People are individuals, and no matter what location you are in on this planet, the idea that everyone in that location agrees with eachother, or thinks the same way, is completely absurd.
The point of a school is to teach people how to think, not what to think.
I can agree in places its like that, where I study they really pushed the "how to think" changing you to challenge idea
And I get what you mean about the ours vs them, but I don't know if that is really the symbol or the people behind it
I do feel you can feel part of a community for good without making it a ours and them
Lets say the original idea of the UN, and a flag that suppose to mean united nations across the world, will say it got tiwsted, but that was the original idea that its sold as... till they pick funding members with more power
I think the Pledge is a nice civics lesson in grammar school. I don't recall when we stopped doing it. But likely by sixth grade, the pledge didn't start the school day... The "under God" might cause some folk's kids trouble if they're atheists or some other denomination... but it's the SPIRIT of the pledge, not ALL the words in it. I think both parents and children have a grasp of these facts.
Nope. I think it is appropriate to run through the ritual for those who wish to do so, but ultimately we all have freedom of speech and can choose to say or not say what we want. Thus. kids don't have to pledge their allegiance, but setting a good example to encourage them to preserve and protect liberty and educating them on the constitution is the right thing to do. Why would you need to force someone to protect liberty, if those people really had liberty? Only tyrants would need to force children to run through the motions to prove they are obedient. When people understand what is at stake and the God given rights they have in contrast to many dictatorships around the world, they won't need to be forced to do anything, they will volunteer to defend their precious liberty. You want patriots with high moral that will never relent not conscripts that run through the motions to avoid being caned but would surrender at the first opportunity...
I think the pledge should be recited in every classroom in the country, every day. But students should have the freedom to not recite the pledge, providing that they are not disruptive or disrespectful to those who are reciting the pledge.
Fifty years ago, the pledge was recited every morning, everyone was expected to join in, and I am not aware of any harm that was caused by that tradition.
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No. Its people? Its ideals? Maybe- but a rag on a stick is a rag on a stick. The people pushing for it have a nasty tendency to treat it more like fetish worship than anything rational. If that seems excessive, remember how often they vehemently oppose flag burning, when by all logic it's just another form of expression, protected by the first Amendment.
If you treat the flag as more important than what it represents, then you don't understand this country at all. In a free society, dissent is an act of faith.
They are pledging their allegiance to their country, "I pledge allegiance to The Untied States of America..."
Yes, every citizen should absolutely pledge their allegiance to their country or go live in whichever country their allegiance belongs to.
I think you'd like North Korea, you have similar values 😂😂
My allegiance is with myself only. Shall I now move to Mars?
Respectfully disagree. Anyone can put a hand on their heart and sing the pledge, but it's ultimately an empty gesture. I could say the pledge word for word while wearing something patriotic and still go sell secrets to the highest bidder. I could say the pledge and still be more loyal to my native country of Czechia. If you want to teach kids how to be loyal to their country, teach them how to build upon what's already here and make it better. Not some empty words anyone in the world can say just to save face
@Sirenboobzilla No one claimed recurring the pledge is a replacement for teaching civics.
*reciting
If they are going to live in America 🇺🇸 then they should respect the American flag. One way to do that us by saying the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag.
And if they refuse, then they should go back where they belong, what every country they support.
Don't come to America 🇺🇸 and disrespect OUR flag! Go back where you came from or show some respect for even being in America 🇺🇸.
I understand your point on taxes, but an individual shouldn't be required to pledge their allegiance to any specific government or nation if they choose not to.
I've visited the US on numerous occasions, I like the culture, people, stuff like that. However you can't expect me to suddenly love a government known for lying to their citizens and brainwashing young adults for military service.
@OlderAndWiser Fair point.
@Jersey2 I don't agree that the pledge is relevant to the constitution. It is said in most schools in the US daily, but if you ask the average American what the constitutional amendments are, most of them cannot answer anything but the first, second, and fourth amendments, and will oversimplify even those, and they only remember those because the gov constantly violates them.
The pledge is mostly an attempt at removing the seperation of church and state from the first amendment without actually amending it. And to glorify militant patriotism for military enlistment reasons.
I’m inclined to say yes…. then I look at America. A land of trannies, people identifying as cats, where everyone is a victim, and abortion is celebrated.
Then I think…. this is not the freedom our founders envisioned…that I did not go to war to fight for this country so I could be told I’m white and therefore an oppressor of all other races.
I think pledging allegiance to the country America used to be, yes, to what our country is becoming and has become…. not so sure anymore. If things keep going as they are and we continue to see insanity be pervasive all over the place, hell…I’m not even sure I can pledge allegiance to a country that does these things.
I might have said yes at one point but the more i understand the whole point of a free country it seems a traitorous act to compel kids pledge ones allegiance for 2 reasons:
A) If your compelling someone to pledge their allegiance they are not really pledging anything. A pledge has to be made of free will with full knowledge. A kid in school has neither of those qualifications let alone both.
B) An idea or institution whose sole legitimate propose is to deserve said allegiances, as no legitimate reason to require anyone to pledge to support it unconditionally. Unless you claim that idea is the Constitution alone, this idea is really anti-constitutional Therefore anti-American
No, the entire point if this country is to not blindly follow or pledge yourself to anyone or anything, to have your own opinions, life choices, and freedoms.
You should not be forced to say anything, let alone pledge yourself to anything.
Yes. It's not just a piece of cloth, it represents a value system. And if the fabric of American values continues to be eroded and torn apart as some are doing to it now, we will all regret it and live in a country where the values we cherish are gone.
So while it may seem draconian, it is a necessary part of teaching our youth the values that all free people crave and cherish. Freedom comes at a price. And this little exercise is a very small part of that price.
No, I don’t think so. By the time I was in middle/high school the droll and dystopian vibe disgusted me. Instead, I would stand up to fit in but not put my hand to my chest or speak. But I suppose it’s part of the culture and indoctrination of public schools and patriotism. I don’t have a problem with patriotism at face value; it’s the fact that it was being pressed onto malleable minds that was the issue as I grew up.
YES, it's important to remind students to support their country. That doesn't mean blind support, nor does it mean support for everything their country stands for.
Yes they should and we do every morning.
the few who tried not to are also not following rules in the classroom.
Yes they should, if not they should leave our country
If it's truly a FREE country then of course they should be free not to.
No. Especially not without knowing the meaning behind it
A piece of fabric must not replace own thoughts.
An ''Allegiance'' must be made voluntarily.
A school must not be perverted into a brainwashing machine.
No I'm glad we don't do that here it looks really sinister and disturbing. Besides if you're forced into pledge is it really binding?
No - insisting on loyalty is no way to gain real loyalty. I also think oaths matter, and an oath coerced has no meaning.
Ideally, yes, but the United States is the Great Satan so in that case I'm going to have to go with a firm no.
I say yes because you should be loyal to your country and your fellow man..
each principal should be free and authority to choose either way for their school.
Yes, they should. But, they also must be taught what that pledge means.
No. We shouldn't be teaching others to just pledge allegiance to something that hasn't earned it.
They don't. The Supreme Court ruled on that many years ago.
No, freedom of speech includes NOT being forced to say/support things you may not agree with.
Nothing wrong with supporting the ideals of the Constitution as amended, but pledging allegiance to a banner seems like idolatry to me.
I don't think that is still a requirement, when I student taught some students chose not to stand.
Hmmmmm somewhere I think it's good thing but at the same time it could be used to control those kids a bit too much...
Of course not. Just ridiculous brainwashing.
Yes, and they should play the National Anthem too.
I did it when I was in school.
Yes they should good patriotism
No, that’s really strange to me
Nope, that was resolved 80 years ago.
These things shouldn't be forced.
No, it’s kinda creepy to force that.
That sounds weird to do.
No, it's cultish.
That is brainwashing and child abuse.
As a substitute teacher, I don’t force them to.
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